She didn't know he could read???!!!

[Gil]

The first time I met Pals teacher and she asked me about him, I told her that he could read.

When she was reading a big book in class to her 1st graders and missed a word, he corrected her.

When she asked him what his favorite things to do were his written response was "readng [sic] and math"

We are 2 months into the school year, yet she told me that she didn't know that Pal could READ!!!!!

He takes chapter books in his backpack and reads them during class (He's been "off task" practically every single day)

 

I reminded her of all these things when she said that and she said she wasn't sure because, get  this...she hadn't given the class reading tests yet!!!! They are having reading tests starting this Wed.

GGGGGAAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHH!!!!
 

 

ETA: "Its hard to tell which students are readers before you test them!" Thats right, lady, because there was no indication that he could read....He's been "playing with books" in his bag during class time for weeks!!!!

[tiffaninichole]

Wow. How inattentive can one possibly be? Very upsetting.

[mathmarm]

Yikes! Thats a doozy.

[Tanaqui]

I reminded her of all these things when she said that and she said she wasn't sure because, get  this...she hadn't given the class reading tests yet!!!! They are having reading tests starting this Wed.

 

I can sorta see the rest of it with a large and busy class, sad as it sounds, but it's almost November already! Is it normal to wait this long before starting assessments in reading?

 

[SierraNevada]

Wait, I'm so curious Gil. Did you stop homeschooling and put your kids in school? I'm so curious what happened and how your super accelerated kids can handle that huge change in level. I must have missed your story elsewhere.

I can only imagine it would be frustrating not only for you, but them. "Uh, yeah that's right first grade teacher, not only can he read, but he is doing algebra. So if you could just skip the addition within 20 worksheets and find something on factoring binomials that is appropriate for first graders, I don't know, maybe a worksheet with some cartoon characters at the top, that would be great." I'd love to hear the rest of the story, and how your kids are coping.

[SKL]

When I mentioned my kid was reading a little to the preschool boss, her comment was "a lot of parents think their kid can read, but they don't really know what it means to say a child can read" or something like that.  Which kinda made sense at the time.  When she was in (young) 4s, I mentioned that she was reading storybooks now and the teacher said, "yes, I have observed that she is starting to read."  I tried to get her into KG early since they were recruiting a lot of kids who were not yet readers, but she was 6 days too young.  (The KG was part of her preschool/daycare facility.)  I made a lot of noise trying to get an exception, since my kid was already beyond everything they teach in KG.  Imagine my surprise when the pre-K teacher came to me and informed me, "she is reading!  She sat and read a book to the class!  She should be in KG!"  LOL.  [They did let her into KG mid-year.]

 

I think different teachers may have different definitions of "reading."  Maybe they see a lot of kids who memorize books and such.  I remember when my kid brother started KG or 1st, he could not read, but he had memorized The Tale of Peter Rabbit.  So he took it and "read" it to the class.

 

It is also possible that your son is hiding his reading ability at school because the teacher has not asked him to display it.  It is not unusual for a child to "play dumb" and mislead even their teachers.  Even on the tests, my youngest has played dumb and caused problems for herself.  In fact, her 2nd grade reading test score was about the same as her KG reading test score.  Yes, it can be very frustrating, but I've given up trying to make everything perfect educationally for my kids.  It doesn't have to be perfect, and I don't want my head to explode.

[SKL]

I am surprised they haven't been asked to read in class yet in 1st grade.  Nowadays I think that is unusual.

[sunnyday]

LOL SierraNevada.

 

 

For our "transition to kindergarten" there was a whole rigamarole where the preschool teacher and the parent jointly filled out a form to help give the kindergarten teacher information on the students. I wrote on the form that DD was an avid reader who at that time (a few months after her 5th birthday) was fluently reading A Little Princess.

 

For our "open house and kindergarten assessment" the teacher quizzed DD on her letter sounds. She was somewhat impressed when she could blend a bit, and said "It looks like you might even be reading some WORDS!" I had to speak up, I told her, "Well...in fact, [DD] is reading some BOOKS." The teacher put a note on a paper somewhere that said, "reader". On the same day we were asked to fill out a questionnaire about DD and under her favorite things to do we put "reading and hiking," simply because for the past several days she'd been going around the house exclaiming, "I just LOVE to READ!"

 

So school started and they got tested into reading groups, and DD's group was assigned to the other kindergarten teacher. I went in to that classroom to volunteer and, seeing my competency (I helped teach this phonics program two years ago with my son,) the reading teacher seemed relieved. "I *knew* that someone was in her family who knew how to teach reading. I asked her if her parents were teachers and she said no!" I never taught this kid a thing, but kept my mouth shut. After two months of school, DD's group -- all three readers, though none as fluent as DD -- is being moved up to a "first-grade curriculum." The teacher, to her credit, is a bit apologetic that it's taken this long and points out that she needs to make sure all the phonics bases are truly covered before moving on. Still, my daughter just read 5 chapters of Wizard of Oz over her breakfast, and at school it's a big surprise that she can read "whack the shack?"

 

Whatever. Gil, the thing of it is that there is no scenario in which your boys get their perfect instructional level in a public school setting. I don't think it's worth it to get all up in arms about first grade teachers having the gall to teach reading when the transition to literacy is so crucial to 99% of the kids they're working with.

 

[Gil]

Wait, I'm so curious Gil. Did you stop homeschooling and put your kids in school? I'm so curious what happened and how your super accelerated kids can handle that huge change in level. I must have missed your story elsewhere.

I need the free childcare. I am going to withdraw them when I graduate.  For now, we are just making do. I can only imagine it would be frustrating not only for you, but them. We are extremely frustrated, but its just something we've gotta do right now. "Uh, yeah that's right first grade teacher, not only can he read, but he is doing algebra. So if you could just skip the addition within 20 worksheets and find something on factoring binomials that is appropriate for first graders, I don't know, maybe a worksheet with some cartoon characters at the top, that would be great." I'd love to hear the rest of the story, and how your kids are coping.

[mathnerd]

From my experience at the PS in my state, things move rather slowly. They are more focused on classroom readiness, handwriting, wrist strength development by coloring and cutting, celebration of festivals like Halloween, craft work etc that they do not get to reading tests until 2-3 months into the school year. I am glad that your son can take his own books to read in class. That was a life saver for my child in 1st grade. And maybe, you can send in some algebra work too :)

[sunnyday]

From my experience at the PS in my state, things move rather slowly. They are more focused on classroom readiness, handwriting, wrist strength development by coloring and cutting, celebration of festivals like Halloween, craft work etc that they do not get to reading tests until 2-3 months into the school year. I am glad that your son can take his own books to read in class. That was a life saver for my child in 1st grade. And maybe, you can send in some algebra work too :)

 

My first grader wasn't as advanced as Gil's boys but his teacher was downright relieved when I declined to have him complete the math homework she sent home, and replaced it with photocopies of the Beast, Borac, and Singapore sheets we'd been doing instead.

[kiwik]

Yeah but your kids aren't 5 surely some level of reading woyld be assumed?

[Tsuga]

I can sorta see the rest of it with a large and busy class, sad as it sounds, but it's almost November already! Is it normal to wait this long before starting assessments in reading?

 

In our schools, reading assessments are conducted through October, but because they use a district-appointed specialist to triangulate the teacher's test, and they have to test all children in grades K-3 (or more) , it can take through November.

 

They realize this is not okay. They want more staff.

 

That takes money. :(

 

 

her comment was "a lot of parents think their kid can read, but they don't really know what it means to say a child can read" or something like that.  Which kinda made sense at the time.

 

Yes. A lot of parents think that knowing the alphabet = being able to read because they can sound out words, right? People are delusional.

 

Also, my kindergartener, who is an emerging reader, likes to sit and look at chapter books. Because she thinks it's cool. Whatever. I don't think my child's teacher would be well-served by assuming that kids who like books can read.

 

Your child is unusual, OP, in a wonderful way. You are working in a context that teachers encounter about .00001% of the time. It must be hard but be patient and find ways to make things work for your family, knowing that it is not going to happen automatically.

[Catwoman]

The first time I met Pals teacher and she asked me about him, I told her that he could read.

When she was reading a big book in class to her 1st graders and missed a word, he corrected her.

When she asked him what his favorite things to do were his written response was "readng [sic] and math"

We are 2 months into the school year, yet she told me that she didn't know that Pal could READ!!!!!

He takes chapter books in his backpack and reads them during class (He's been "off task" practically every single day)

 

I reminded her of all these things when she said that and she said she wasn't sure because, get this...she hadn't given the class reading tests yet!!!! They are having reading tests starting this Wed.

GGGGGAAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHH!!!!

 

 

ETA: "Its hard to tell which students are readers before you test them!" Thats right, lady, because there was no indication that he could read....He's been "playing with books" in his bag during class time for weeks!!!!

Why is your son reading books during class every day instead of paying attention to the teacher? Is he reading when he finishes worksheets or something?

 

I find it very odd that the teacher hasn't noticed that he is doing other things while he is in her class.

 

Honestly, if he is as advanced as you've said he is, I can't imagine that the teacher hasn't noticed it. If he is truly that advanced and she is truly that clueless, perhaps you should have him moved to a different class, as this situation doesn't seem right to me at all.

[kiwik]

Is this your youngest or oldest? Anyway if most of the kids did K at the same school they should know roughly where they are so if they tested any new kids first it would make sense. At least then they could put them in temporary reading groups.

[DoppeltGemoppelt]

Why is your son reading books during class every day instead of paying attention to the teacher? Is he reading when he finishes worksheets or something?

 

I find it very odd that the teacher hasn't noticed that he is doing other things while he is in her class.

 

Honestly, if he is as advanced as you've said he is, I can't imagine that the teacher hasn't noticed it. If he is truly that advanced and she is truly that clueless, perhaps you should have him moved to a different class, as this situation doesn't seem right to me at all.

Unfortunately, this is the every-day-truth in many classrooms! Every year I have had to let the teachers know that, yes, in fact, the twins can read AND comprehend. After testing (in November!) finally verifies that fact, I am usually told a random reason why they still have to read leveled readers. This is the first year that one of my boys has a teacher who had him figured out the first DAY of school! She is phenomenal! But unfortunately she is anything but the norm.

 

So yes, catwoman, I believe every word Gil wrote! Gil, I know this is really hard for you! I have read many of your posts and wish for you that you could homeschool your wonderfully talented and hard-working boys again. The only advice I can give you is to be the squeaky wheel. Be THAT parent, that's the only way you may get something out of school for them. Plus, my kids have made a handful of very good friends in PS, so hopefully yours will too.

[Jennifer N.]

Quote

"Unfortunately, this is the every-day-truth in many classrooms! Every year I have had to let the teachers know that, yes, in fact, the twins can read AND comprehend. After testing (in November!) finally verifies that fact, I am usually told a random reason why they still have to read leveled readers. This is the first year that one of my boys has a teacher who had him figured out the first DAY of school! She is phenomenal! But unfortunately she is anything but the norm. "

 

This has happened to our family year after year. I thought I must have slept through my grad reading classes after all since my view of my children's reading was vastly different from the school's. This year my older two switched to a full time advanced acad. program at a different school; the 3rd grader tested 6-7th grade level for reading and the 5th grader post high school for comprehension. I don't know what's going on at some schools... I am still trying to figure that out. I am not saying every single teacher, but more than not, my kids were assessed on grade level but then given infrequent small group reading instruction. I can very clearly remember the ones who actually met with my children for small group reading instruction. But they always tell me they will meet with the higher readers or act surprised when I mention if a child got very little of that the previous year (usually I bring this up as nonconfrontationally as possible at fall conferences).

 

Yet at the new school, they are definitely getting small group instruction and are coming home very excited about the new books they've been exposed to. I think to people who have a base school like my older two's new school, it is surprising to hear about the other kinds of schools.

[Laura Corin]

When Calvin was in school (aged 4 to 5; in Hong Kong) they did reading tests in order to put children in groups so that they could be helped at their level.  However, the teacher didn't bother to test the children above the level that would put them in the top group.  When that teacher went on maternity leave, I asked her replacement if she could test him, and she carried on up through the levels (until she ran out of time).  For the rest of the maternity leave, she would get books from a different classroom for Calvin.  

 

When the original teacher came back, and Calvin was put back on 'top group' books, I wondered gently about the level (not mentioning what the substitute had done).  The teacher looked at the records and said, 'You expect me to go to another classroom and get books for him?!'  At which point I just suggested that he bring books from home.  No point in fighting it - the teacher was highly stressed (tiny baby at home; older child disabled) and pushing was not going to make a difference.

 

L

[Arcadia]

Honestly, if he is as advanced as you've said he is, I can't imagine that the teacher hasn't noticed it. If he is truly that advanced and she is truly that clueless, perhaps you should have him moved to a different class, as this situation doesn't seem right to me at all.

Some schools have no accommodations for kids who are at least two grades levels ahead. My older's PS class has 30 kids from kindergarten up. Changing teachers won't help. Grade skip was offered for my older but I wasn't keen on my 9 year old going to the PS middle school for 6th grade.

I think Gil's is doing what I did, let school be the free daycare and concentrate on afterschooling.

[Jennifer N.]

Laura, very good points. I think every school handles how high they test for reading level differently. I have very much internalized how the school where I taught expected reading assessments to be handled (so I forget sometimes that not all schools do this) - I was expected to test my readers to their highest reading level instructionally. A few kids who were several grade levels above, I couldn't top out because of time issues. Each reading test consisted of taking a running record of the child reading a selection aloud, plus oral and written questions and each reading level had a fiction and nonfiction selection.

 

I think where my kids went/go to school K-2 only tests to on grade level. I get different answers about this from different teachers.

[Arcadia]

I think where my kids went/go to school K-2 only tests to on grade level. I get different answers about this from different teachers.

My local PS test K-5 in August (usually 2nd week of school year) to see who needs pull out for reading intervention. How far the teacher test above grade level depends on the teacher. My older's kindergarten teacher did but not his 1st grade teacher. One reason was test materials, not all teachers has the test materials for K-8. They only have a subset. The other reason is time allocated to testing. The kindergarten teacher was given a week of testing time for LA and math while I think 1st grade onwards was three days time only for LA and math testing.

[SKL]

The only differentiation my advanced reader received in school in 1st grade (or any grade so far AFAIK) was the ability to read higher level AR books for independent reading.

 

Yeah, I complained about it on WTM a fair amount.  :P  I now don't complain too much because my kid seems fine with it.  At least she can read what she wants outside of school.

[sunnyday]

What would most people's ideal reading differentiation for kindergarten and first grade look like? DD is getting pretty tired of her reading group. They've just moved up to a first grade curriculum, which is about on-level for one of the little girls in her group, but she and her friend are bored out of their wits.

 

I think my only recourse is to ask that she be allowed to read independently during reading instruction time. I had a lot of fun with her and her friend "popcorn reading" a book page-by-page and giving them guidance on the words they missed (like "Cruella de Vil" and "twilight"). I could volunteer to do that on Monday afternoons instead of leading a reading group, but that leaves their third groupmate out in the cold without an instructor and doesn't do anything for the other 3-5 reading group times each week.

 

Any other brainstorms for effectively teaching two children who read on a 3rd-5th grade level, in a kindergarten of children who are mostly starting to blend? (Or to stay on-topic, what would Gil expect to see in the classroom if his son's teacher *had* recognized his reading ability?)

[Arcadia]

Any other brainstorms for effectively teaching two children who read on a 3rd-5th grade level, in a kindergarten of children who are mostly starting to blend? (Or to stay on-topic, what would Gil expect to see in the classroom if his son's teacher *had* recognized his reading ability?)

What my older's PS kindergarten teacher did was to pair him up with the 3rd grade teacher during reading buddies time (once a week with a 3rd grade class). He could read unabridged classics and his teacher has those in the reading corner. The teachers has a bookcase full of donated books from parents. The 3rd grade teacher did reading comprehension of fiction instead with him during reading buddy time.

 

For library time (once a week), he was allow to borrow any book he wanted to read.

For daily reading lessons, the teachers group by ability so he is in a group that are comfortably reading chapter books.

 

Most kids in that PS went to private preschool or headstart though so phonics and writing uppercase and lowercase were already covered before K.

 

ETA:

Most of the books in the classroom's reading corner were Newbery and Caldecott award winners which were on the teachers wish list for school book fair and donated by parents.

[SKL]

Assuming it's actual literature being used, my advanced reader was happy to read at a lower reading level, because there is so much else besides decoding going on in a good book.

 

Now when they had to do so-called "leveled readers" which are poorly written and uninteresting, she would "read" them and then bomb the tests.  I couldn't blame her after seeing some of them.  I was tempted to burn them myself.  :P

[Gil]

Yeah, its frustrating! I really don't put much stock in this school. I just need somewhere to legally park my kids while I work or am in class.More than anything, I was just so irratated that she could look me in the eye with a straight face and tell me that she didn't that Pal could read after all that we've been through this year. A lot of local parents are unhappy with the school, but its what we are zoned for and no one can really afford private school in my area. The teacher is well meaning, I guess, but sub-par from what I can tell. This whole thing is a rock and a hard place situation.

 

• She is a Worksheet Queen. She gives a lot of worksheets in class, but sadly the first semester of 1st is looking like a quick run through of K, and randomly assigned holiday themed pages
• She is inattentive. According to Pal, she often goes into the conjoined classroom and just talks with the other teachers, or is on her phone or doing a bunch of other "little things" that isn't teaching.
• She is inconsistent. Earlier he was told that he could color when he was finished with his worksheet, but him coloring was a distraction to the other students so now he's not allowed to color in class. Pal is my "artsy" kid, so he kind of liked coloring, but not a big deal.
• She is inexperienced. Or at least she comes across that way. She used to be in corporate, until she got laid off and became a teacher.

 

They are not supposed to bring books from home to class, but I let the boys do it anyway. They have told me that the boys aren't "developmentally ready" for most books and that they encourage kids to read more widely within their own grade level. (not such a bad idea, except they restrict how many books you can read, what level books you can read, etc...). They use a basal reading program, not actual literature and 1/2 of the school library are readers from various publishers.

 

Ugh! Anyway, I decided already not to sink any energy into their PS since nothing is going to change. I just send them to school and get them back at the end of the day and they do their best to forget that they were even ever there. Mostly, I was just venting some irritation to some folks who would understand.

 

THIS THREAD IS A JINX! I have written and lost this reply like 5 times now.

[WinsomeCreek]

Hang in there Gil. It's temporary. The kids will come out ok. I'm sure they're reading plenty on their own and still learning. Free daycare is worth a lot.

I also lost two responses. This is my short post. :)

[SKL]

If he can't color in class (I assume it is because of all those crayons rolling around), perhaps he could decorate the page margins or write and illustrate a "what happened next" story chapter - with pencil only.

[Gil]

..I will bet she is checking her stocks on that phone.

lol, probably.

 

@SKL, I have asked the boys--especially Pal--to not draw at school. Ours is a 0 tolerance school now and Pal is an all-boys, boy. He'd draw so many "banned" images it would make the news. :rolleyes:

[mathnerd]

I will bet she is checking her stocks on that phone.

 

That would mean that the teacher had enough knowledge of stocks, markets, trading etc (which, given my observations of some of the PS elementary teachers that I came across, is uncommon). In our PS, I used to watch teachers facebooking or twittering about frivolous, trivial stuff when they were supposed to focus on kids. I volunteered in the classroom and I used to think that I, as a volunteer, with no real accountability except to myself, chose not to reply to my messages on the phone while in the classroom while my son's PS teacher was texting away without a care!

 

Gil, I know your frustration. In my kid's PS class, they had an area with legos, wooden blocks, pattern blocks, tangrams etc and my DS spent a lot of time there after finishing his worksheets and he was building or doing other imaginative things. Does Pal have access to such things in class?

[sunnyday]

Thanks for the picture into how subject acceleration is handled elsewhere! Wow, I don't know whether to just be bummed that this kind of individual attention isn't possible in a tiny district, or whether to expect actual education and to push the advocacy hard. I'll have to think about it.
 

If the third child is progressing rapidly, I'd stay with the group....in the meantime, the teacher should be discussing lit devices, author's purpose etc with all, as well as giving them terminology such as 'foreshadowing'. She may be doing some Reader's Theater.  You should conference, and discuss what your child is learning.

 

The problem is that the third child is still learning to read. She's progressing, and she's exceeded kindergarten expectations, but there is no actual literature going on in these small groups. It's strictly vocabulary controlled, "This is Sam and his mother." Students aren't expected to be able to decode the word "mother" yet. They've actually stepped down in content from the end of kindergarten units, where they were reading a page like this one. In return for this drop in actual reading, they've added "comprehension" questions like "Sam and his dad swim. What do Sam and his dad do? O sit O stand O swim," as well as extra handwriting work by way of tracing short sentences and writing letters (which they already do during class time.)

 

In contrast, today was not a school day so DD read the entirety of Mr. Popper's Penguins this morning in about an hour and a half, pausing occasionally to read the funniest parts aloud to me with lovely inflection. So I see a disconnect here between what the school is offering and what is actually useful to her. She doesn't mind doing below-level work, and for all I know some gaps in phonics knowledge may have been bridged in the past two months of this, but IMO it is getting a bit ridiculous. She says she wouldn't mind skipping reading group just to read independently. I think I wouldn't mind supporting her in this.

 

 

[Arcadia]

She says she wouldn't mind skipping reading group just to read independently. I think I wouldn't mind supporting her in this.

You can just speak to her teacher afterschool and put in your request. My older's PS teachers told me they ran out of reading material for him without me asking. My older "eats" books. He was allowed to bring and read his own.

 

Skipping reading group to read independently at a corner is the easiest accommodation for the teacher. The K-3 classes at my local PS have an ESL specialist who does pull outs during reading group time.

[SKL]

Re the 3-kid group, I don't think the grouping is the problem.  The material might be the problem.

 

There are some books that have a simple sentence or two on one page in a two-page spread, and a more advanced paragraph or two on the other page in the spread.  Designed for parents and kids to read together, I used to use these for my daughters when they were in KG - one was able to read Harry Potter and the other was just beginning to read.  It also helped that the stories and pictures were somewhat interesting.

 

The level would be a challenge for the slower reader (but not too frustrating with an adult to supply hard words), and still easy for the advanced reader, but better than any leveled reader I have ever seen at any level.

[sunnyday]

Child #3 is probably going to be reading chapter books fluently by the New Year; it happens that fast for students who have high vocab and don't come in reading.  So, rather than isolate anyone, they've formed a group.You really need to conference and ask what the instruction for your child is. I'd be asking for testing and an appropriate group (defined as instructional level blah blah plus or minus blah blah, and okaying going out of the classroom.

 

Yes, that's how it worked for my DS (well, it took him until April). It's actually hard to assess where this girl truly is based on the stilted materials we have, but the fact that she still confuses "would" and "wouldn't" in isolation makes me think she's not decoding fluently *yet*. Which is why remaining in the reading instruction program probably would be a good idea for her. Which is why pulling 1-2 of the other group members away feels inappropriate. I've thought about asking the teacher about how they got placed in this level. I'm not sure she's worked with this first-grade curriculum before and she may have started them with Unit 1 by default when kids who graduate the kindergarten reading  curriculum are meant to start around unit 20 or 25.

 

I know *what* the instruction is, about 1/4 of the time I AM the small-group reading instructor. And they do go out of the classroom, reading groups are formed by combining students from both kindergartens and we walk to the other teacher's room for this ability group. Going out of grade level has no precedent, and anyway it's just part-time kindergarten. Logistics would be nutso.

 

These reading groups were established largely based on kindergarten-level DIBELS, which as I think you know tests mostly on nonsense word fluency. I'm thinking of having them give her a first-grade DIBELS. I know that the first-grade teachers were blown away by my son's oral reading fluency score last year, and I suspect she would top him. It would give us a point of reference anyway.

 

Re the 3-kid group, I don't think the grouping is the problem.  The material might be the problem.

 

There are some books that have a simple sentence or two on one page in a two-page spread, and a more advanced paragraph or two on the other page in the spread.  Designed for parents and kids to read together, I used to use these for my daughters when they were in KG - one was able to read Harry Potter and the other was just beginning to read.  It also helped that the stories and pictures were somewhat interesting.

 

The level would be a challenge for the slower reader (but not too frustrating with an adult to supply hard words), and still easy for the advanced reader, but better than any leveled reader I have ever seen at any level.

 

Yeah, I like those "You read to me I read to you" books, and you're right, if someone worked with them all three girls could enjoy something like that. The problem though is that ditching the phonics curriculum completely would be a HUGE massive paradigm shift. And I don't know if it would be the right thing for all of them.