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Teeth and dental were mentioned in the Millenial thread. A provocative link............


Joanne
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I have seen this with my (now deceased) SIL who grew up with excellent dental care. But by mid-life she was a drug addict, couldn't hold a job, and had very little dental care. What care she got (paid for by family members) was to keep her functional and very cheaply done.

 

My in-laws also face dental issues - it seems dental care is not a part of basic coverage of Medicare, so any dental work is very very expensive, and very overwhelming for those who are trying to survive on social security.

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Grew up with it and stilling living with it. Right now my focus is on my girls' teeth, not my own. Though lord knows that I need a lot of work done on mine and don't have the money to have it done. I can get free crowns and what not due to Dh's work but it's the actual "work" that costs so much.

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I grew up without a toothbrush (until I was old enough to care about hygiene for myself), and I went to the dentist once at age 11 (for a cleaning) and once at age 16 (for a filling).  I have crooked but not terrible teeth.  I have to thank fluoridated water and genetics (my mom's - my dad's teeth rotted out before I was born, but he did invest in false teeth despite being poor).

 

I think "routine dental care" is overrated.  So far my kids (3rd graders) have had one cleaning, and one of them had a couple of emergency visits for accidents.

 

I do think poor kids should have access to some dental care, and many of them do have state-sponsored dental insurance.  I don't know what the cutoffs are.  I know some parents don't make use of this insurance and some do (no idea of the %s).

 

My step-niece was raised on welfare / medicaid etc. and had all the dental care.  Her teeth were fine.  A couple years ago, she showed up at a family gathering with really nasty teeth.  I asked someone about it afterwards, and that's when I heard something about meth (which she was doing).  Sad, but not sure what can be done about that.  She in turn has four kids, being raised on welfare, whose teeth are fine at the moment ....

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Grew up with it and stilling living with it. Right now my focus is on my girls' teeth, not my own. Though lord knows that I need a lot of work done on mine and don't have the money to have it done. I can get free crowns and what not due to Dh's work but it's the actual "work" that costs so much.

 

Same here.  I always thought well I'll be able to deal with my own teeth when I'm an adult.  No, now it's me focusing on my kid's teeth and me once again not getting what I need.  I don't even care so much about the cosmetic issue either.

 

Although it pisses me off to no end that the hygienist brings up braces EVERY SINGLE TIME.  My son has slight crowding of two teeth.  Teeth are straight otherwise.  Are they Hollywood perfect?  No, but we can't afford to buy braces for Hollywood perfect teeth.  So this leaves me wondering what is necessary and what is not.  And I want my kids to have better, but again, I cannot afford extensive cosmetic treatments.  We have insurance, but it doesn't cover much in that realm.  Doesn't even put a tiny dent in the cost. 

 

I didn't tell my son that financially it would be a major stretch.  I asked him if the looks of his teeth bother him and if he wanted to get braces.  He said no.  The offer still stands, but he isn't bothered.  I just wish the hygienist would stop bringing it up.  Unless she'd like to make a donation.

 

I've thought about telling them to just pull the rest of my teeth out and give me dentures.  Then I can finally have less stupid looking teeth.  But I once had a partial and I hated it so much so I'm going as long with what I got as I can. 

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The girls and I have Medicaid, which is how I'm able to get them in (in Michigan kids have a separate dental plan). Adults don't have that luxury and are at the mercy of the "dental clinics" that really only clean your teeth or yank them out, they don't do fillings or anything like that for adults. I'm sure if I went to a "dental clinic" they would want to pull all of my teeth.

Dd1's dentist (who is also an orthodontist) is watching for crowding, he also does business with Dh's work so he is willing to work with us as far as payments and whatnot.

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I do think that too many dentists are very eager to do work on your teeth. I switched myself to another dentist. The kids still see the old one who wants to fill every little "soft spot" in the enamel. From my new dentist I know that these soft spots can reharden if you follow up the dx with good dental care. I can't switch the kids over for a variety of reasons.

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I didn't usually have dental insurance as an adult.  I'd go and pay out of pocket every couple/few years for a cleaning / fillings.  It is not free, but not that expensive when compared to other things people willingly pay for over the course of 2-3 years.

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I also agree that dentists are all too willing to offer expensive orthodontics.  Apparently they start this when kids are still in preschool.  My sister, whose kid is 4 and still has all her baby teeth, says their dentist is working on a game plan for future orthodontic work because of something he sees in the x rays.  I've also heard of a number of parents who were told their ~8yo needs orthodontics.  :/

 

One of my kids has teeth that come in crooked and then straighten on their own.  The dentist also let it slip that if you manipulate the teeth (with your fingers) while they are still growing in, the bone is still soft enough that you can often straighten them without orthodontics.  We might still decide to do braces, but I don't think it's "necessary" for most kids.

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Anecdotes aside ("I was poor and my teeth are fine"), I do think that dental care is critical--and goes beyond teeth.  I have two friends whose larger medical symptoms were first discovered in a dentist's chair (another who was diagnosed with kidney failure at the eye doctor's).  Do other countries separate teeth and eyes from basic medicine?

 

Further, not all orthodontia is cosmetic as some people seem to believe. One reason for early orthodontia intervention is that sometimes a retainer can move teeth as opposed to full braces.

 

The cost of dental insurance usually covers cleanings.  Dental insurance normally has a deductible and a copay so it is rare to get "free" dental work.  My dentist works with the uninsured; I suspect many help children in poverty.

 

 

 

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I had one dental appointment as a kid and it was very much needed. I was in constant pain. I didn't own a toothbrush very often until I started earning enough money to buy my own stuff. I had/have horrible teeth.

 

As an adult I'm darn near OCD about brushing my teeth. There's toothbrushes in my purses, project bag, in the kitchen, in the bathroom, in the van. I usually brush within a few minutes of eating almost every time I eat.

 

Some people start with better teeth than others, but one can't count on that. And cavities aren't the only dental problem to be worried about. Gum disease can cause cavity free teeth to be lost.

 

My kids under 18 are on state Medicaid and the dentists on it are awful. Took them to several and swore never again. I've had good care for them, so I know the difference and I'd rather go without than get them crappy care.

 

We pay cash when we can afford it. I'm pretty mean about teeth care around here. 8 of them have never had a cavity. 2 of them have made up for all the other 8. Which proves my point about some of it being genetic. I'm OCD with all them about teeth brushing, but 2 of them have had a small fortune put in their mouth by the age of 7. No joke, probably around 20k, not including braces. And it was 100% necessary. And out of pocket over many years. I shed many tears over it bc our health system doesn't view teeth and eyes and ears as just as vital to health as the rest of our body so there's very little help for those who need it. Which is nuts bc any of those three things going downhill has a major and often times long term health impact on people.

 

Two of mine have had braces. I don't regret it in the least. It is not just cosmetic, but even if it were, your smile is the first thing people see for the rest of your life. Professionally, I think it does impact futures. Should it? Hell no. But it does. I grew up self-conscious about my smile and having kids make fun of it. Not cool. So yes, I hock stuff if I have to make sure my kids get dental care. Same as I would if they needed new glasses or a hearing aid.

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Further, not all orthodontia is cosmetic as some people seem to believe. One reason for early orthodontia intervention is that sometimes a retainer can move teeth as opposed to full braces.

 

 

 

Bite issues can damage the teeth long term. My dd's had my mil's severe overbite. As I researched it, I learned that my mil's thinning teeth are likely do to the fact that she has such a bad overbite.

 

Also, jaw issues can be corrected with braces. This is why I had braces. I had a crossbite and an overbite that would have led to terrible problems with my jaw later.

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Most of what's been brought up in the top half of the thread is really secondary to the article linked. If you're upper middle class with good nutrition and decent genetics then you can likely flex quite a bit on dental care and even go without and probably be ok. But if you're poor and if your nutrition is iffy (doubly so if you're food insecure) then a lack of dental care becomes a serious problem.

 

This isn't about over-treatment or an over-reliance on orthodontics. This is about people who need dental care out of medical necessity and can't get it. This is about abcessed teeth that could go septic and kill someone. It's also about assumptions people make about the state of one's teeth and how that limits job opportunities and reinforces the cycle of poverty.

 

It's a great article, thanks for linking it, Joanne.

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I agree with the article and really do think that bad or even slightly crooked teeth are very noticeable.  Whatever the reasons are, it would seem that the majority of children in middle and upper class families have braces at some point.  All but two of my friends in college had braces in high school.  The two who didn't IMMEDIATELY got braces after they graduated and started their first jobs.  They both said they understood that their parents couldn't afford it, but they were so self-conscious about it.   Even though it may not be essential to life or may be a really expensive way to fix what amounts to a minor, cosmetic problem, DH and I are planning on all our children having braces.  It's going to be very expensive.  It's going to be hard.  It's something I will get a p/t job myself to pay for if that's what it comes down to.

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Bad teeth are not always because of bad dental coverage. I grew up in a house where my parents struggled to make sure there was food on the table. We were taken to the dentist, but that was kept as minimum as possible. I never had good teeth. I still don't have good teeth. I'm feeling lucky that I have my teeth still in my 30's. My older brothers, on the other hand, could count all their cavaties on one hand between all four of them. They just never had cavities. My little sister had her first cavity in her 20's. Some of it is just genetics.

 

Diet probably does play a relatively big role as well. I was the only kid in our household that wasn't raised on home grown milk. I was lactose intolerant and were didn't have a cow in my early years.

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In Canada it is no better with dental care.  You need a plan or you are out of luck.  It is not covered under provincial healthcare.  Not sure how it works for people on government assistance or for First Nations.  Some people i know go to a dental school because it is cheaper but it is a long wait.

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Dental care is important for issues beyond teeth. When my son was born prematurely I was asked several times about my dental health. I guess there is a strong correlation between gum disease and lack of dental care and premature birth. Given what my son's medical bills were, and the fact that the majority of the other families I saw in the NICU were obviously quite poor, I would think that avoiding those costs to medicaide would be a no-brainer.

 

 

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I agree with the article, dental care is crucial and ought to be included.

 

My ds has a genetic condition that includes poor enamel. While some might not have needed dental care until they were in their teens he has already gone though thousands of dollars worth of care, he is six. He's had so many issues his dad and I still brush his teeth for him.

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I cannot believe how expensive dental care is!  I really don't know how people afford it.  My parents (in their 80's) have suddenly needed root canals, bridges, etc., and the cost seems to be about $5,000 each time.  I always feel so badly that they have to spend it on dental stuff instead of a fun trip or something!

 

We do not have dental insurance, and so were really careful about our kids taking care of their teeth.  We would bring them in for a preventative check-up and cleaning about once every three years when they were growing up, and usually we would say NO to the extra's, like x-rays for their records.  (I know there is a use for them, but we just couldn't afford it.) 

 

Two of my kids really severely needed braces, one of them in particular had teeth sticking out all over in every direction! ha.  We couldn't afford to get them braces until high school;  one of them finally got them off right before her senior pictures.  :)

 

I do think people who have the money are much more apt to get braces for even mildly crooked teeth nowadays. 

 

I splurged for an implant (actually my mother paid half  :)) because it was a front tooth that I had damaged in a bike accident and finally, after 20 years, it died.

 

Dental maintenance and upkeep is very expensive.  People are judged -- to an extent -- by their teeth, unfortunately!  A restaurant is not going to hire a host who has missing or awful-looking front teeth, for example.  I don't know what the solution is.

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In Canada it is no better with dental care.  You need a plan or you are out of luck.  It is not covered under provincial healthcare.  Not sure how it works for people on government assistance or for First Nations.  Some people i know go to a dental school because it is cheaper but it is a long wait.

 

In BC, children in families on welfare are still covered. There's a dollar limit but it's roughly enough for basic preventative & most minor restorative. I have heard from families that if living in a major town, getting access to major restorative at greatly reduced costs is reasonably easy. There are several subsidized clinics as well as the dentistry school at the university which also provide services. Much tougher in smaller towns.

 

Also, people with permanent disabilities or designated with multiple barriers to re-entry also have some dental coverage each year & again, access to subsidized dental work.  Regular welfare recipients no longer have dental coverage.

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Yeah, most of the time, routine dental care can look like a complete waste of time and money.

 

Most of the time.

 

But then some kid will die because of an infected tooth: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Dental/story?id=2925584

 

So, yeah, it's worth keeping an eye on things. And it is NOT a luxury to have access to dental care.

We were on Medicaid for several years. We ended up having to pay out of pocket for some needed dental work when there were no dentists in the area taking new Medicaid patients. These Dentists were happy to work out payment plans we could afford, and would reduce their rates for children.

 

If my child had a cavity, it was taken care of regardless of what sacrifices we had to make. Access to care is there for anyone, you just have to figure out how to pay for it. That case made me so angry, my sons cavity only cost a little over $100 to fill, and they wrote most of it off for me. I realize there are higher cost of living areas, but dentists do charitable work all the time for kids. This poor kid was neglected, by everyone, his parents and the system. He could have had the care he needed.

 

BTW, my church has a charitable fund that is available for situations like the one in the article. They will help pay medical bills and pay for treatments and other urgent care or emergency care that is needed and also assist with secondary bills or loss of income that arises from medical issues. Assistance is out there, I wish more people were aware of it.

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We were on Medicaid for several years. We ended up having to pay out of pocket for some needed dental work when there were no dentists in the area taking new Medicaid patients. These Dentists were happy to work out payment plans we could afford, and would reduce their rates for children.

 

If my child had a cavity, it was taken care of regardless of what sacrifices we had to make. Access to care is there for anyone, you just have to figure out how to pay for it. That case made me so angry, my sons cavity only cost a little over $100 to fill, and they wrote most of it off for me. I realize there are higher cost of living areas, but dentists do charitable work all the time for kids. This poor kid was neglected, by everyone, his parents and the system. He could have had the care he needed.

 

BTW, my church has a charitable fund that is available for situations like the one in the article. They will help pay medical bills and pay for treatments and other urgent care or emergency care that is needed and also assist with secondary bills or loss of income that arises from medical issues. Assistance is out there, I wish more people were aware of it.

 

My kid was $3000 for his most recent issues. If they need to be sedated it is nearly $500 each time (just for the medication, which isn't usually covered by ins) and crowns are $300.

 

We have insurance.

 

Genetics can be rough. :/

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To the best of my knowledge, dental care not being included in medical coverage is not a "United States" only thing - the relatives I have in other countries, even with "universal health care" insurances, do not have dental coverage unless obtained privately (or they pay for dental care out of pocket).

 

I grew up in an upper middle class home. My parents simply didn't place a high priority on dental care. No clue why. My father won the genetic lottery with his teeth, but mother had terrible teeth. I had terrible teeth - within the last 5 or so years, we've put about 15K into my teeth; in the 5 years prior to THAT we easily put another 15K into my teeth (or, my parents did).

 

I will argue day in and day out against the argument "routine dental care is overrated"... maybe, if you have genetically awesome teeth (like my husband - who also had no dental care as a child, but has fabulous care), but for everyone else... well, that's like saying routine medical care isn't necessary, just because YOU happen to be lucky enough to be a naturally healthy dude. 

 

My kids, unfortunately, got the crap end of the stick - and my genetics (dental health wise). Regardless of that I've been militant about dental care, visits, brushing, etc, they have had many, many dental issues. In fact, we just had 3K worth of work done for my 5 year old son, and we had about 1K done for him a few years ago. My 13 year old is next up, and just had her cleaning, where we found out that she needs several fillings, and will eventually need two implants (bicycle accident from a few years ago - roots are deteriorating/dying and nothing can be done, but oddly enough, the teeth aren't graying at all yet). 

We are middle-upper middle class for our area, and have EXCELLENT dental coverage... but all the coverage and preventative care in the world doesn't, apparently, beat genetics :p

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I have never understood why dental care isn't included in health care.

 

Does anyone know the reason for this?

 

I think it is because it is seen as 'extra'. That is one of the things that makes my family dentist NUTS. He has a lot of information out for patients about how poor dental health can effect your overall health. He regards tooth decay as preventable, not unavoidable, and certainly no one should be walking around with untreated infections and living in pain. 

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I also tend to think that the lack of good nutrition will play a role in the development of teeth. I've read the studies done by Weston A. Price and find that aspect very interesting.

 

My kids, for some reason, seem to have a bit of shark DNA, as we have found that half of them (so far) have extra layers of teeth in at least one spot.

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Not that this is pertinent to the OP, but I think it's kind of sad that people get braces for mildly crooked teeth for purely cosmetic reasons.  (I do realize there are other reasons but I see people posting here about doing it just for cosmetics.)  I'm not talking about teeth sticking out all over, but a little variation in the way teeth line up is just interesting and even attractive IMO.  It's just another aspect of who a person is, like the color of their eyes or the shape of their ears.  In most countries (developed and non), even well-off people don't fuss with cosmetic orthodontics.  It just isn't even on the radar unless there is a significant malformation.

 

I've never felt funny about my crooked teeth.

 

Then again, I wear T-shirts, jeans, and white athletic shoes, and we all know what that means ....

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I will argue day in and day out against the argument "routine dental care is overrated"... maybe, if you have genetically awesome teeth (like my husband - who also had no dental care as a child, but has fabulous care), but for everyone else... well, that's like saying routine medical care isn't necessary, just because YOU happen to be lucky enough to be a naturally healthy dude. 

 

Liking wasn't enough; I had to quote this part of your post. I'm an old timer on this board, and I long ago lost count of the posters who mock the idea of medical wellness visits and routine dental care. Actually, quite a few of them scorn the idea of bringing the kids to the doctor for almost any illness! And they rarely credit good luck or genetics; oh, no, they don't need those silly visits because they aren't fearful moms who overreact, they eat the right food and thus have good teeth and good health, and so on. It's very wearying, lol. 

 

Of course good eating and good habits can affect medical and dental health. That doesn't mean every person who gets ill or has a cavity could have avoided it. Having good health makes you lucky, not superior. 

 

//end rant

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Liking wasn't enough; I had to quote this part of your post. I'm an old timer on this board, and I long ago lost count of the posters who mock the idea of medical wellness visits and routine dental care. Actually, quite a few of them scorn the idea of bringing the kids to the doctor for almost any illness! And they rarely credit good luck or genetics; oh, no, they don't need those silly visits because they aren't fearful moms who overreact, they eat the right food and thus have good teeth and good health, and so on. It's very wearying, lol. 

 

Of course good eating and good habits can affect medical and dental health. That doesn't mean every person who gets ill or has a cavity could have avoided it. Having good health makes you lucky, not superior. 

 

//end rant

 

I agree that it isn't a matter of being a better (or less neurotic) parent.

 

However, it is inefficient to have every person go to the doctor and dentist frequently when they aren't even sick.  There has to be a better way of catching real problems without all these "well visits" and the like.

 

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I also tend to think that the lack of good nutrition will play a role in the development of teeth. I've read the studies done by Weston A. Price and find that aspect very interesting.

 

My kids, for some reason, seem to have a bit of shark DNA, as we have found that half of them (so far) have extra layers of teeth in at least one spot.

 

"Shark mouth" runs in my husband's family too.  My husband and his father had an extra row of teeth. My son had extra teeth that prevented his permanent teeth from descending.  This led to oral surgery, etc.

 

Not that this is pertinent to the OP, but I think it's kind of sad that people get braces for mildly crooked teeth for purely cosmetic reasons.  (I do realize there are other reasons but I see people posting here about doing it just for cosmetics.)  I'm not talking about teeth sticking out all over, but a little variation in the way teeth line up is just interesting and even attractive IMO.  It's just another aspect of who a person is, like the color of their eyes or the shape of their ears.  In most countries (developed and non), even well-off people don't fuss with cosmetic orthodontics.  It just isn't even on the radar unless there is a significant malformation.

 

I've never felt funny about my crooked teeth.

 

Then again, I wear T-shirts, jeans, and white athletic shoes, and we all know what that means ....

 

My top teeth are naturally straight, my bottom teeth crooked. I have never felt funny either but my crooked teeth have not led to problems.  I am not sure that crooked teeth are always just "cosmetic" which is why I prefer not to judge orthodontia decisions.  There can be more going on in a mouth than just a crooked tooth or two. Perhaps people naturally share a lot of information with you.

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I grew up without a toothbrush (until I was old enough to care about hygiene for myself), and I went to the dentist once at age 11 (for a cleaning) and once at age 16 (for a filling).  I have crooked but not terrible teeth.  I have to thank fluoridated water and genetics (my mom's - my dad's teeth rotted out before I was born, but he did invest in false teeth despite being poor).

 

I think "routine dental care" is overrated.  So far my kids (3rd graders) have had one cleaning, and one of them had a couple of emergency visits for accidents.

 

I do think poor kids should have access to some dental care, and many of them do have state-sponsored dental insurance.  I don't know what the cutoffs are.  I know some parents don't make use of this insurance and some do (no idea of the %s).

 

My step-niece was raised on welfare / medicaid etc. and had all the dental care.  Her teeth were fine.  A couple years ago, she showed up at a family gathering with really nasty teeth.  I asked someone about it afterwards, and that's when I heard something about meth (which she was doing).  Sad, but not sure what can be done about that.  She in turn has four kids, being raised on welfare, whose teeth are fine at the moment ....

May I ask why? Is there a reason you don't get basic preventative dental care for your girls? What about it is overrated in your opinion? I'm not talking orthodontics or cosmetic dentistry, just basic cleanings and check-ups. 

 

My children get such terrible tartar build-up that I shudder to think what their mouths would look like if they didn't get regular cleanings. My teeth are the same way, as are dh's. We're just "lucky" to have an overabundance of minerals in our saliva that lead to excessive tartar/plaque. 

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As proven by almost every BBC production ever, lol. 

 

Yes indeed.  I do find it odd that 'perfect' teeth are expected in America but 'perfect' noses are not.  So getting braces is a right of passage, but a nose job is not.

 

I do understand that braces are sometimes medically necessary - both my boys have had braces paid for by the National Health Service because their teeth were so wonky that they were causing medical problems.  That's a different thing.

 

For the record: I have one missing top tooth (it never came in) so the other teeth have moved over to fill the space.  My mid line is not mid, but my teeth work.  They are also not white: I see the dentist regularly and they get cleaned as needed, but they are naturally yellow and I don't have any desire to get them bleached.  FWIW, my routine dental care (check ups and cleanings) is covered by the NHS; treatments (fillings etc.) are free at the point of delivery for the young, and are charged at a low rate for the rest of us.

 

ETA: Husband (Texas) has very snaggly bottom teeth (he refused the second set of braces) but he's had a perfectly good career, so the 'bad' teeth didn't get in his way, even in corporate America (Mellon Bank, Citibank, etc.)

 

L

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May I ask why? Is there a reason you don't get basic preventative dental care for your girls? What about it is overrated in your opinion? I'm not talking orthodontics or cosmetic dentistry, just basic cleanings and check-ups. 

 

My children get such terrible tartar build-up that I shudder to think what their mouths would look like if they didn't get regular cleanings. My teeth are the same way, as are dh's. We're just "lucky" to have an overabundance of minerals in our saliva that lead to excessive tartar/plaque. 

 

I don't believe it's necessary for everyone.  Their teeth have been looked at during doc visits and indicated to look good.  And I used to look at them twice a day and they looked good.  And the kids never complained.

 

They had their first cleaning at age 7 since they have now had some permanent teeth for a while.  No problems were uncovered, but they did offer to do stuff like coat the teeth with some protectant (I declined).  We will go back once in a while, but not 2x per year as is recommended.

 

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I agree that it isn't a matter of being a better (or less neurotic) parent.

 

However, it is inefficient to have every person go to the doctor and dentist frequently when they aren't even sick.  There has to be a better way of catching real problems without all these "well visits" and the like.

 

Welp, the doctors never would have caught my son's life threatening lung and vascular defects if it weren't for those "well visits" and the likes ;) While he was presenting with symptoms of his already known heart defect, he had no symptoms of the other defects, that weren't also known to be presentations of his known heart problem. Those pesky little check ups saved his life.

I have no clue how they would find "real problems" without "real, and regular, medical care".

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We all get regular dental care. And all of my children had braces, though only one really needed them to be pain free and healthy.

 

So for us, dental care is a mix of 'want' and 'need.' And we are so so lucky.

 

But even if one can establish that dental care is a need, it does not necessarily follow that it should be provided by tax payers. I would personally like to see everyone in the US have basic medical, eye, and dental care. But we don't. We have Medicaide, which as serious problems, and we have private dental insurance.

 

If we wanted universal dental care, we surely could do it. I doubt there is the political will. Right now, people appear to be wanting to cut taxes and cut entitlements. As it stands, Americans are generally expected to provide for their own 'needs' as well as their 'wants,' with only some safety nets for the poor. We could work to push medical insurance to cover teeth, but of course our rates would all go up, and everyone is complaining about how expensive it is now.

 

And I do think people tend to make negative assumptions about those with bad teeth.

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I don't hold it against you that you would probably cross the street to avoid me if we ever encountered each other AFK, but I don't particularly want to invite you over for a cup of coffee when you're in town. Our online friendship is too important to me.

 

It reminds me that I am still me and not who the rude salesboy at the 7-11 thinks I am.

 

I hope that you understand that when I say people make unfair judgments, that is one reason why I said I would like to see everyone have access to dental, health and eye care in America.  I really don't think anyone should have to deal with that, and I would be happy to have a system where everyone has access to adequate care and not just the well employed.

 

I don't think we have the political will for that in the US right now, but I wasn't making a "I don't want to pay" judgment.  I was trying to make the point that we have a society that does not care about other people's health care needs, let alone perceived cosmetic issues, when they weigh it against the feared cost to themselves.  I am certainly not saying that is a good thing.  Even financially stable families have a hard time coping with the huge costs that some dental problems can result in, so families who don't qualify for medicaid can still find themselves in a horrible position trying to take care of very expensive problems they can't afford.  I just think the "needs" vs "wants" debate can be distracting, because a lot of the time, there is no help for either.  I don't want to get political on the board, but I think that is a problem.  At some point, the impact of a "cosmetic" dental issue is so great (and your post is a great illustration of this) that fixing it seems vital to emotional/mental health, even if it weren't technically medical.  

 

I am sorry if I wasn't clear.  And I would truly love to have a cup of coffee with you.

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I also agree that dentists are all too willing to offer expensive orthodontics.  Apparently they start this when kids are still in preschool.  My sister, whose kid is 4 and still has all her baby teeth, says their dentist is working on a game plan for future orthodontic work because of something he sees in the x rays.  I've also heard of a number of parents who were told their ~8yo needs orthodontics.  :/

 

One of my kids has teeth that come in crooked and then straighten on their own.  The dentist also let it slip that if you manipulate the teeth (with your fingers) while they are still growing in, the bone is still soft enough that you can often straighten them without orthodontics.  We might still decide to do braces, but I don't think it's "necessary" for most kids.

 

Uh yeah.  Now they claim you need two rounds of braces.  Once when you are little and then again later on.  Yeah I think some sadistic money hungry person came up with that idea.  Give me a break.  I'm sure there are some extreme cases, but I also wonder how many people get told honestly by orthodontists that braces aren't needed or their need is purely cosmetic.  And it's ok that people go for cosmetic reasons.  But if buying something like that will put you in the poor house you don't want to do it for purely cosmetic reasons (unless very severe). 

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Um...yes.

 

I have seven upper teeth left after pouring more money than I should into my periodontal disease. My ex husband almost lost his job for neglecting to mention our divorce until after his insurance covered my gum surgery. My parents dipped into their retirement funds to buy me a set of dentures for my 40th birthday, but I had to use the money for my daughter's wisdom teeth and other preventative dental care for my kids instead. I still manage to scrape together enough to pay for cleanings every three months (instead of every six months like normal people have) to slow down the progression of the disease.

 

I do not want you to buy me new teeth so that I look like you, but I would greatly appreciate it if you would stop pointing at me on the street and telling your kids, "That's what happens if you never go to the dentist!"

 

I enjoy baking, but haven't been able to eat sweets for over ten years because of the pain sugar causes my exposed dental nerves.

 

I do not want you to pay for me to have my remaining teeth extracted so that i can enjoy a piece of chocolate, but I would appreciate it if you would stop pointing at me and saying, "That's what happens when you eat too much candy and never brush your teeth!"

 

I know that you think you know everything about me the minute I forget not to smile, but I also know that your prejudices are too deeply ingrained for me to have any power of changing them. I would like to educate you about who I am and how periodontal disease affects my life, but I know that if I tried to show you my voter registration card in the midst of your tirade about how "people like me" vote, I would only succeed in convincing you that people with visibly missing teeth LIE about being staunch Republicans and maybe they're all pickpockets and identity thieves too.

 

I've only looked like this for a year or two and I'm getting used to it because I have to. I don't hold it against you that you would probably cross the street to avoid me if we ever encountered each other AFK, but I don't particularly want to invite you over for a cup of coffee when you're in town. Our online friendship is too important to me.

 

It reminds me that I am still me and not who the rude salesboy at the 7-11 thinks I am.

I liked your post though it isn't the right thing. I don't like those experiences at all but I agree with what you are saying.

 

Fwiw I don't notice teeth and never really have. My dh does so was happy when I ended up with adult braces, but honestly if you smile with your eyes I promise I won't even see what your teeth look like!!!

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Yes, especially teeth. No Medicare for dental here. If you have private health care or can save money, you are OK. If not...you put your name down on the extremely long ( years ) waiting list for the (very few) state dental hospitals.

 

I need a wisdom tooth out in order to start drugs for my osteopenia. Can't afford it. Can't start treating the osteopenia.

Except for kids who can access care through school dentists. Though they tend to be the fill at will types in my experience. Some of my dental care issues as an adult were possibly caused by a dentist who thought it was a good idea to fill some back teeth just in.

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Um...yes.

 

I have seven upper teeth left after pouring more money than I should into my periodontal disease. My ex husband almost lost his job for neglecting to mention our divorce until after his insurance covered my gum surgery. My parents dipped into their retirement funds to buy me a set of dentures for my 40th birthday, but I had to use the money for my daughter's wisdom teeth and other preventative dental care for my kids instead. I still manage to scrape together enough to pay for cleanings every three months (instead of every six months like normal people have) to slow down the progression of the disease.

 

I do not want you to buy me new teeth so that I look like you, but I would greatly appreciate it if you would stop pointing at me on the street and telling your kids, "That's what happens if you never go to the dentist!"

 

I enjoy baking, but haven't been able to eat sweets for over ten years because of the pain sugar causes my exposed dental nerves.

 

I do not want you to pay for me to have my remaining teeth extracted so that i can enjoy a piece of chocolate, but I would appreciate it if you would stop pointing at me and saying, "That's what happens when you eat too much candy and never brush your teeth!"

 

I know that you think you know everything about me the minute I forget not to smile, but I also know that your prejudices are too deeply ingrained for me to have any power of changing them. I would like to educate you about who I am and how periodontal disease affects my life, but I know that if I tried to show you my voter registration card in the midst of your tirade about how "people like me" vote, I would only succeed in convincing you that people with visibly missing teeth LIE about being staunch Republicans and maybe they're all pickpockets and identity thieves too.

 

I've only looked like this for a year or two and I'm getting used to it because I have to. I don't hold it against you that you would probably cross the street to avoid me if we ever encountered each other AFK, but I don't particularly want to invite you over for a cup of coffee when you're in town. Our online friendship is too important to me.

 

It reminds me that I am still me and not who the rude salesboy at the 7-11 thinks I am.

:grouphug:

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I agree, I have worked with many people who have a missing tooth or the like, and it doesn't faze me.  Some of my favorite people have one or more front teeth missing, including people whom I've hired to work for me (and at least one guy who hired me to work for him).  I would rather not have that problem in my own mouth, but I don't tend to judge people on that.

 

My mom lost a tooth because of complications of chemotherapy.  It is a molar, so not visible, but still sucky I'm sure.  Her gums turned black during chemo.  So that is another thing to consider if you notice people with an unattractive smile.  PS, that is the same mom who genetically had excellent teeth.  I guess she probably would have lost more to the chemo if her teeth weren't already very healthy.

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Uh yeah.  Now they claim you need two rounds of braces.  Once when you are little and then again later on.  Yeah I think some sadistic money hungry person came up with that idea.  Give me a break.  I'm sure there are some extreme cases, but I also wonder how many people get told honestly by orthodontists that braces aren't needed or their need is purely cosmetic.  And it's ok that people go for cosmetic reasons.  But if buying something like that will put you in the poor house you don't want to do it for purely cosmetic reasons (unless very severe). 

 

I think two rounds of braces is really now just developments in the field of orthodontics. I had braces 20+ years ago in a small city, so  probably not the state of the art care. I had adult teeth pulled, which is simply not done now, and it now seems to be causing some issues. I think I would have had a better outcome if I had had a palate expander as a child and then second phase braces as a tween or teen.

 

Starting earlier and doing two phases may just be better care, KWIM?

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I agree with the article and really do think that bad or even slightly crooked teeth are very noticeable. Whatever the reasons are, it would seem that the majority of children in middle and upper class families have braces at some point. All but two of my friends in college had braces in high school. The two who didn't IMMEDIATELY got braces after they graduated and started their first jobs. They both said they understood that their parents couldn't afford it, but they were so self-conscious about it. Even though it may not be essential to life or may be a really expensive way to fix what amounts to a minor, cosmetic problem, DH and I are planning on all our children having braces. It's going to be very expensive. It's going to be hard. It's something I will get a p/t job myself to pay for if that's what it comes down to.

I read an article about acne that was similar. Something about why she nevers sees much acne at upper middle class and rich schools.

My mom had almost no dental care growing up, and was very serious about making sure I did. She was always so ashamed of her teeth.

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