What is this and what can I do?

[Beetkvass]

My 7 yog still can not recognize her letters and letter sounds, or remember the names of numbers or math symbols. We've been working on it off and on for many years now. I kept thinking it was a maturity issue for a while but it just seems so much more than that at this point. It seems to be something with not being able to connect auditory and visual.

 

She is doing well in math IF I remind again every single lesson which is the addition, subtraction symbol etc. She can do the math just fine, single and double digit addition and subtraction. But she still struggles to remember if asked the name of each number. At this point 0-10 is usually fine. But with the larger numbers she can add 24 + 38. But she can't say they are twenty-four or thirty-eight. 

 

With reading it's even worse. After all these years she still can not tell me the names or sounds of the majority of the alphabet. She's half way though 100 EZ Lessons for example and can read what she is supposed to read. But I will have to remind her of almost every letter sound at some point. She might or might not remember it for a while. If she's reminded of letter sounds she can easily sound the words out though. But she will quickly forget most letter sounds even after practicing it repeatedly or reading multiple words with that letter in it.

 

We just started Apples and Pears recently. She'll write /g/ and say the sound 8 times but then the very next line when she's supposed to say the letter sounds she won't remember it. Even Apples and Pears says  it is for absolutely beginners and they should be able to recognise most letters by sound before they start.

 

I just don't know where to go or what to do when she can't remember the very basics of the letter sounds and names! She can write words without letter reversal though. And her fine motor skills are very good. 

 

 

 

[hornblower]

I think that might be issues with working memory.

My kids were the same & we just kept trying & trying & trying & taking time off & coming back & using different programs etc etc until it all finally clicked (which took years...)

20/20 hindsight & if I had to do it again, I'd get a neuro psych eval sooner rather than later.

[Cheryl in CA]

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[PeterPan]

Yup, if you haven't had evals yet, it's high time.  It's the only way to know you're targeting the problem correctly.

[Beetkvass]

Please tell me more about neuro psych evals? Who do I see and what kinds of things do they test for? Thank you!

[PeterPan]

neuropsychologist.  Specializes in the brain (as opposed to clinical psychs who do lots of counseling).  They'll typically do more detailed testing and spend more time than a clinical, dig farther, identify the specific affected parts of the brain, cost more, and see the harder cases.  So it's just what you need, can afford, etc.  Cost of private will be about 1/2 of cost through a hospital, so you need to look at your insurance, etc.  

 

You also have the option of going through the ps for evals.  Quality and amount of feedback varies with the school.

 

I suggest googling dyslexia + neuropsychologist + your state to see who pops up.  Or look for who is on your state dyslexia association advisory board.  Or google for ped referral lists. 

[Heathermomster]

You can also call your local dyslexia school and speak with the headmaster to get a NP referral.

Rare is the dyslexic who learns to read with 100 EZ Lessons. You need a program that uses explicit and multi-sensory instruction. Maybe check out Baron Reading and Spelling and give your child the pre-test.

[geodob]

Their is a specific part of the brain that connects letters with their sounds.

Another part of the brain next it, for numbers and their sounds.

 

But perhaps you could try something with her?

Where you wrote that she has good fine motor skills.

What it would involve, is teaching her some 'sign language'?

 

Which would start with perhaps the first 5 letters of the alphabet.

First, learning the signs for the sound of letters.

As well as the signs, for the sounds of 1,2 and 3.

 

The converse of this, is for you to make signs and she names them.

 

Do this for a few days, to see if she can develop a memory and recognition of them?

 

If she can? Then have her practice making the signs for same letters and numbers.

But this time, using written letters and numbers.

 

One approach, is for you to make the sign. Then she points to the written number/ letter on a page.

Followed by writing the number/ letter.

 

Then the converse, where you write or point at a number/letter on a page, and then she signs it.

 

After doing this for a few days, you will be able see whether she is developing an automatic recognition?

Also if this carries over to her recognizing the letter/ number sounds when they are written.

 

If this is successful? Then the next group of letters/ numbers could be worked on.

 

While typically letter/ number recognition uses a connection between the visual and auditory cortex.

This introduces the motor cortex into it, making a 3 way connection.

 

But just using a few numbers and letters for a few days.

It could soon be seen whether it is effective?

 

[PeterPan]

Their is a specific part of the brain that connects letters with their sounds.

Another part of the brain next it, for numbers and their sounds.

 

But perhaps you could try something with her?

Where you wrote that she has good fine motor skills.

What it would involve, is teaching her some 'sign language'?

 

Which would start with perhaps the first 5 letters of the alphabet.

First, learning the signs for the sound of letters.

As well as the signs, for the sounds of 1,2 and 3.

 

The converse of this, is for you to make signs and she names them.

 

Do this for a few days, to see if she can develop a memory and recognition of them?

 

If she can? Then have her practice making the signs for same letters and numbers.

But this time, using written letters and numbers.

 

One approach, is for you to make the sign. Then she points to the written number/ letter on a page.

Followed by writing the number/ letter.

 

Then the converse, where you write or point at a number/letter on a page, and then she signs it.

 

After doing this for a few days, you will be able see whether she is developing an automatic recognition?

Also if this carries over to her recognizing the letter/ number sounds when they are written.

 

If this is successful? Then the next group of letters/ numbers could be worked on.

 

While typically letter/ number recognition uses a connection between the visual and auditory cortex.

This introduces the motor cortex into it, making a 3 way connection.

 

But just using a few numbers and letters for a few days.

It could soon be seen whether it is effective?

That's an interesting idea geodob.  I'm trying to think of ways to work on working memory *without* using speech, because I think the motor planning required for replying may be holding back my ds' progress.  I like your ideas and will try them!  :)

[SandyKC]

Yep, sounds like a memory/recall issue.. betting your child would have a deficit that relates to "rapid naming" or labeling.  It's a unique kind of cognitive hiccup that makes it difficult for a child to recall/name an "object" like a number or a letter.  A child can be cognitively bright, but be unable 'name' things. Sometimes it's significant enough that a child can't remember things like a particular person's name or a pet's name, or something it is clear the child should know.  It would be worth getting a comprehensive evaluation if you can.. that could help you know precisely what your child's issues out and provide insight into how best to overcome his specific issues.

[Rod Everson]

 I kept thinking it was a maturity issue for a while but it just seems so much more than that at this point. It seems to be something with not being able to connect auditory and visual.

 

I would highly recommend a visit to a developmental optometrist to rule out a vision problem. You say that it seems to be something with not being able to connect auditory and visual, and you could be exactly right. Maybe the visual input is confusing to her.

 

I see you've posted a lot in here, so you've likely already had a similar recommendation, and maybe you've already gone down that route, but if not, you should consider it. She might be visually confused whenever she's doing close work like reading or math which would explain a lot of the behavior you're describing.