IEW...anyone else not get it?

[ellebro]

I am starting to feel really dumb, lol.  I have had the IEW set (SWI-A) for several months now, and I have to say that I just can't seem to wrap my mind around what this program is or how it works. I look at the binder full of handouts, and I just don't get it. I don't understand how I am supposed to present this lesson to my kids. Then I try to watch the DVDs... Honestly, when I start watching, I feel like I am at a conference center listening to a motivational speaker and my eyes just start to glaze over, lol.  No offense toward Mr. Pudewa; he seems like a very intelligent person and makes some very interesting points. I can even say that I really agree with his perspective on how to teaching writing.  But I have to admit I am dumbfounded to think that this DVD I am finding it so hard to wade through is only the condensed overview, lol.  I can't imagine sitting through the ten hours or whatever that the entire TWSS encompasses. I guess maybe I'm not stupid, just lazy!  :-0    

 

Am I missing something, or is this just perhaps not suited to my learning/teaching style?  I have read so many good things about this program, especially for kids with Aspergers like my son, so part of me really wants to figure it out, and another part of me wants to just throw it out the window (or rather sell it, since it cost an arm and a leg, lol.)

 

What's the simplest way for me to get the general picture of how to teach this to my kids? I'm looking at the DVD play times that my kids would have to watch (Lesson 1 looks like 37 minutes? Is that right?) and I just can't imagine my kids sitting and watching that long without totally zoning out and/or protesting or getting insanely antsy, especially if I'm having trouble watching him that long myself, hah.

 

So tell me, what am I missing?

 

ETA: I am finding myself wishing that someone would put Mr. Pudewa's excellent ideas into an organized, succinct written form.  There are many golden nuggets of wisdom in his intro video that I've replayed several times to get the ideas firmly in my mind.  I always thought I was a verbal/auditory learner, but I guess I was wrong! I guess I really do like things in written form.  Oh well, I'm starting to think that there are enough good ideas here to merit wading through the hours of video.

[OneStepAtATime]

See about joining the Yahoo group.  They might be able to help you.

[ellebro]

That's a good idea...I'm having some very specific questions come up when I am thinking of how to teach this. For example, when I tried to do my own version of rewriting from a KWO, the problem I'm having is that my sentences are ending up almost exact replicas of the original even without meaning to.  My word memory just brings up the original phrasing.  But then, I guess that's supposed to be okay? I guess this is just the next step in the process after copywork and dictation, which are also rewriting someone else's work.  With dictation, you're supposed to be building up the child's ability to hold words in his mind long enough to get them on paper, and to do so you give them the exact words of someone else in auditory form.  With a KWO rewrite, I suppose the child is learning to reform the ideas into sentences using only a few words as memory cues to reconstruct the basic flow of ideas in his mind.

 

Okay...I think I'm starting to understand now!!  The concept is really making sense to me now.  I do wish the curriculum were in a little bit easier format to work with, though!  I'm seeing the potential now, though. And I like his ideas about handing the child's work back to him with editing marks and words changed but no commentary.  

 

Anyone want to share exactly how you approach that editing process with your kids? Do you use red pen and actually cross out words or phrases with better ones written on top?

[AmyontheFarm]

This is our 2nd year using IEW.  At first it can be very overwhelming, there are a lot of handouts, new things to learn, etc. to the parent.  Here's the thing, the kids haven't learned this way yet.  So, you need to give the kids a chance to try.  I laugh at my kids as they watch the videos because they raise their hands to answer a question!  My kids were engaged by Andrew.  Best thing I did in the world was get the videos so a man could teach my son!   If I find they are glazing over, I stop the video for the day.  We re-watch it again the next day and continue on.  Everyone has days when they would rather be doing something else rather than school.

 

My kids went from sobbing if I even walked close to the shelf where I stored our old writing curriculum to asking to do another lesson with Andrew.  My ds13 who struggles to physically write because of fine motor issues, now enjoys producing decent papers for me.

 

I tell people to check out the yahoo group.  That being said in the past few weeks IEW has started their own forums.  My understanding is that they will be bringing all the info from the yahoo groups over to the forums in time.  Go check them both out.  The yahoo group files were very helpful to me.  Also, do you know that there are free webinar's for you to watch.  He gives an overview of each unit.  I usually plan about a week before we start a new unit to sit down and watch the webinar again so I can remember all the tricks and suggestions he gives.

 

We started at level B, so I can't speak to Level A.  But my advice for the 37 minutes lesson.  Break it down into chunks. Watch 10-15 mins one day.  Talk it over with the kids.  If there is something that they can practice then spend an extra day practicing that step.  For ex: we spent a few days just practicing KWO's.  I'd read a sentence from SOTW and ask them which words they thought were the key ones in that sentence.  Here's the thing, when a child is picking their KWO  they are basically always right!  It is THEIR outline, so they get to pick the words that were important.  I would tell my kids that dates and proper names were free and didn't get counted as 3 of their words.  I also selected short sentences at first to make it easier on them, then over time I started selecting longer and longer sentences. 

 

I felt like the first 3 months we were learning a ton!  And over time once the kids mastered dress ups, kwo, etc  the learning load lightened and the quality of their writing really increased.  They were both amazed that one day, they had wrote a research paper just by doing each step in the process individually and only focusing on that one step.  

 

I really do love this program.  As, I watched the videos, webinars and read through the teacher's guide, I gain confidence in my abilities to actually teach writing to my two kids and those same skills were easily transferred over to other subjects.  I remember the day it all clicked for me and I came marching up the basement stairs declaring that I could do this!  I could teach writing and teach it well because of IEW.

[OneStepAtATime]

Just in the beginning stages of IEW right now so I cannot address that specifically but in general I don't use a red pen because it seems almost like I am punishing for bad behavior or something.  Mistakes are not a bad thing.  Mistakes are an opportunity to learn more.  But red ink tends to have a negative connotation, at least for my kids.  I use bright purples or greens or something when I am writing corrections in various subjects.  Or I use darker pencil lead...

[OneStepAtATime]

This is our 2nd year using IEW.  At first it can be very overwhelming, there are a lot of handouts, new things to learn, etc. to the parent.  Here's the thing, the kids haven't learned this way yet.  So, you need to give the kids a chance to try.  I laugh at my kids as they watch the videos because they raise their hands to answer a question!  My kids were engaged by Andrew.  Best thing I did in the world was get the videos so a man could teach my son!   If I find they are glazing over, I stop the video for the day.  We re-watch it again the next day and continue on.  Everyone has days when they would rather be doing something else rather than school.

 

My kids went from sobbing if I even walked close to the shelf where I stored our old writing curriculum to asking to do another lesson with Andrew.  My ds13 who struggles to physically write because of fine motor issues, now enjoys producing decent papers for me.

 

I tell people to check out the yahoo group.  That being said in the past few weeks IEW has started their own forums.  My understanding is that they will be bringing all the info from the yahoo groups over to the forums in time.  Go check them both out.  The yahoo group files were very helpful to me.  Also, do you know that there are free webinar's for you to watch.  He gives an overview of each unit.  I usually plan about a week before we start a new unit to sit down and watch the webinar again so I can remember all the tricks and suggestions he gives.

 

We started at level B, so I can't speak to Level A.  But my advice for the 37 minutes lesson.  Break it down into chunks. Watch 10-15 mins one day.  Talk it over with the kids.  If there is something that they can practice then spend an extra day practicing that step.  For ex: we spent a few days just practicing KWO's.  I'd read a sentence from SOTW and ask them which words they thought were the key ones in that sentence.  Here's the thing, when a child is picking their KWO  they are basically always right!  It is THEIR outline, so they get to pick the words that were important.  I would tell my kids that dates and proper names were free and didn't get counted as 3 of their words.  I also selected short sentences at first to make it easier on them, then over time I started selecting longer and longer sentences. 

 

I felt like the first 3 months we were learning a ton!  And over time once the kids mastered dress ups, kwo, etc  the learning load lightened and the quality of their writing really increased.  They were both amazed that one day, they had wrote a research paper just by doing each step in the process individually and only focusing on that one step.  

 

I really do love this program.  As, I watched the videos, webinars and read through the teacher's guide, I gain confidence in my abilities to actually teach writing to my two kids and those same skills were easily transferred over to other subjects.  I remember the day it all clicked for me and I came marching up the basement stairs declaring that I could do this!  I could teach writing and teach it well because of IEW.

What a great post!  Thanks, AmyontheFarm.  I was sort of in the same place as the OP, although possibly a little further along.  This is really helpful to me.  Hopefully it will help OP, too.  Cool.

[AmyontheFarm]

That's a good idea...I'm having some very specific questions come up when I am thinking of how to teach this. For example, when I tried to do my own version of rewriting from a KWO, the problem I'm having is that my sentences are ending up almost exact replicas of the original even without meaning to.  My word memory just brings up the original phrasing.  But then, I guess that's supposed to be okay? I guess this is just the next step in the process after copywork and dictation, which are also rewriting someone else's work.  With dictation, you're supposed to be building up the child's ability to hold words in his mind long enough to get them on paper, and to do so you give them the exact words of someone else in auditory form.  With a KWO rewrite, I suppose the child is learning to reform the ideas into sentences using only a few words as memory cues to reconstruct the basic flow of ideas in his mind.

 

Okay...I think I'm starting to understand now!!  The concept is really making sense to me now.  I do wish the curriculum were in a little bit easier format to work with, though!  I'm seeing the potential now, though. And I like his ideas about handing the child's work back to him with editing marks and words changed but no commentary.  

 

Anyone want to share exactly how you approach that editing process with your kids? Do you use red pen and actually cross out words or phrases with better ones written on top?

 

I found with short sentences the KWO was easy to do, there just weren't too many words to pick from, so those sentences were similar when the kids rewrote them.  As the sentences became longer, that's when the kids moved away from verbally giving me back an identical sentence from what they originally read.

 

Because of my son's physical issues, I do a lot of scribing for him.  I started by selecting the SOTW sentences I wanted him to write a KWO from.  I then typed them into a Word document, triple spaced it and selected a larger font.  Then I print it out.  I probably did this for 1.5 weeks so it was a bit of paper at first.  I then broke out the coloured markers and my son would highlight the words he wanted to use as KWO words.  If something could be a symbol we drew it right onto the page, under the word.  The I gave him a black marker to black out all the words he wasn't going to use in his KWO.  He would then practice "reading" his KWO to me.  When he finally got the sentence how he wanted it, sorted out in his head, I would then type it into the computer for him.  Do you see how the writing process is 90% in the head and then 10% actual writing at first?

 

During the first two units.  I didn't edit their work.  I simply scribed and reminded them the rules for KWOs.  It was during Unit 3 I introduced what a thesaurus was and we spent a week created the craziest sentences by looking up each word in a thesaurus and trading up our "penny words" for "silver dollar" words.  Most of the sentences were nonsensical but that was what made it fun!  We learned to add in quality adjectives, etc and that's when I would start to do more editing.  We have a family rule that during IEW I am their human dictionary.  They can ask me to spell anything and I will without complaint.  At first, I was spelling every blessed word and thought it was the stupidest rule I ever used.  Now, because they are using the thesaurus themselves, they aren't asking as often.

[lea1]

I have SCI-A but began by using the Bible Heroes book with my two sons first.  They were a little too young to start SCI-A at the time but I am planning to start that with them probably in January, when we finish Bible Heroes.

 

I felt a little confused by it at first too but I went ahead and watched the TWSS DVD's and it has really cleared up my confusion well.  I have been to some of his talks in person though and have a high regard for him so I like his teaching.  I think he gives a lot of good tips on the DVDs that you won't get through the individual books such as Bible Heros.

 

I was looking at various options for when we finish up Bible Heroes and my previously writing-phobic son exclaimed, "What?! I really like the writing curriculum we are using now!" so I decided we will continue on with SCI-A next for sure.

[ellebro]

Thank you all so much for your feedback!  I put in a request to join the Yahoo group last night.

 

I'm really getting excited about starting the program now that I'm realizing how it works and seeing the potential!  My kids kind of rolled their eyes today when I told them that we'll be trying yet ANOTHER new writing program next week, lol (we've started several but haven't clicked with any so far.)  

 

I have to say I am finally seeing how much sense this program makes, especially as the next logical step after the copywork/dictation/narration phase. I've been struggling before this because my kids are very much beyond that phase and needed something more but I couldn't figure out what.  Neither one of them is ready for WWS which I do plan to try at some point.  

 

I'm really hoping this will be "the one" for us in the area of writing like Teaching Textbooks has been for math.  

 

:-)

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

So funny - my kids love grabbing me the red pen for correcting. They're highly competitive so grading time is always an eager thing (though I do get gasps and whining when they make mistakes, we quickly set about correcting them and all is well).

 

I wonder why some kids react negatively to red and others don't?

:lol:   Probably for the same reason DD loves watermelon and could eat it all day while DS would rather walk on broken glass.  :)

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

To the OP If it makes you feel any better, I successfully taught IEW in a school last year and could not get it off the ground at home this year.  I finally ordered MP Classical Comp for my 5th grader, because IEW just wasn't happening.  I've come to the conclusion that I want to get the SWI DVD's for both boys in the spring after we've finished most of our curr. for the year and spend time just on that.  I know once we get past that and move into some of the more interesting books like Bible Based Heroes or Lion, Witch and Wardrobe it'll get better.  I just found that I tend to run and independent homeschool.  With all that we have to cover, I didn't have any time left to 'teach' IEW.  So it is on hold until some time opens up.  I do still love the program, but I fully agree with the poster that said get the DVDs and let him teach my son. 

[arcara]

Actually, IEW has a forum now that they are trying to move everyone from the Yahoogroup over to. You can find it through their website. They have several employees who's job itis to answer all kids of questions there. I know they would be happy to help.

[fourisenough]

I tried IEW on my own years ago and just COULD. NOT. GET. GOING. with it. I'm now using it with CC Essentials, and I'm seeing the beauty of the program. I won't use it forever, but I think it makes a great intermediate step between copy work/narration/dictation and full, independent writing. My DD9 (10 tomorrow!) now uses the outline/draft structure and stylistic techniques to write anything. She had to complete a book summary and a persuasive speech recently (not for writing class), and they were easy for her to whip-out using her IEW skills.

 

So my advice is to hang in there, using the forums, free webinars, or the printed Syllabus that IEW sells for about $30 to get everything straight in your brain. It will be worth the time invested.

[Writerdaddy]

It might make sense to take the training course! In Teaching Writing: Structure and Style he goes through all the lessons and explains how and why to do it. 

The Student Intensive A is kind of follow along do it for you, but it might be hard to enact without knowing how to teach or do it yourself. In the training course there are also practicum lessons where you do the actual exercises yourself. That is the best way to learn.

 

BTW, pm if you want to give up and sell. Just this morning I've been turning over the house trying to find my Int. A dvd's and can't find them anywhere.

[Tess in the Burbs]

It's not for you.  It's for the kids.  

I bought SWI-B.  I was so not into this program.  I finally found the schedule and put the video on for them.  He teaches.  They liked him.  Then they worked on their assignment.  I checked the assignment for the list of items being taught that week.  The next lesson's video has him reading papers and my kids enjoyed hearing other's papers.  He teaches, they write more.  I check it.  Etc, etc. 

 

It wasn't until I started the video and letting him teach it until I got it.  The teacher handouts need to be copied.  One for each kid for each lesson.  I often printed them out when the kids screamed they didn't have the paragraph he wanted them to read.  LOL

 

It was easier to figure out while doing it.  Not before.  I was confused until we just started it.  Seriously.  It wasn't hard once we got going. 

 

 

[Tess in the Burbs]

And the conference ladies told me not to get both the teacher and student courses.  I got the student course with videos so he teaches the kids.  I just listen and check their work.  and print out the paragraphs when the kids tell me they need them ;-)

[scrapbabe]

I could never make it work as an independent subject. Andrew himself has said that writing should be done across the curriculum. My son is taking a class that has a writing assignment every week. So we read the assignment. Then I decide which unit would be best suited for the paper. Then I watch that particular unit on the TWSS and we work through an outline together. Then occasionally I'll teach a dress up or something else to use. If I didn't have IEW I think helping him write papers would be very difficult. I love the small steps that we can take with IEW to help guide us in writing a paper. It has helped me become a good writing teacher while still giving my son the ability to think and use his own voice in his writing.

[mom31257]

I have not used this book, but I believe it is the program in written format. 

 

 

[ellebro]

I have not used this book, but I believe it is the program in written format. 

 

Thanks for this!  I can see why Andrew Pudewa says it's not for the weak of heart!  I read through the sample and it is definitely very dense.  It's nice to know it's out there, though, just in case!  

 

I think I will invest in the TWSS at some point, though...it's a big investment for sure, but I think I'm going to save up for it.  

 

For now, though, I'm going to just jump in with the SWI videos and see how that goes.  

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

Thanks for this!  I can see why Andrew Pudewa says it's not for the weak of heart!  I read through the sample and it is definitely very dense.  It's nice to know it's out there, though, just in case!  

 

I think I will invest in the TWSS at some point, though...it's a big investment for sure, but I think I'm going to save up for it.  

 

For now, though, I'm going to just jump in with the SWI videos and see how that goes.  

I wouldn't bother with the book.  I ordered it and sent it back for a refund.  Dense yes.  I think most people would not have the time or interest to read it.  I think starting with SWI is great.

[ellebro]

The first day went great!  I LOVE Mr.Pudewa's teaching style.  My kids thought he was really funny and enjoyed listening to him much more than I thought they would.  Their attention really started to wander after the first 15 or 20 minutes, though, so I think I will probably start spreading each video lesson out over two days.  

 

One small thing that I thought was interesting was how Mr. Pudewa instructed the kids to "follow along with their eyes" while he read the paragraph out loud -- those are the exact words I use with my son since he needs very explicit directions like that (which tell him exactly what to do with his eyes) rather than the more vague "read along."  I've never heard anyone else use that phrase so I was very encouraged to see that Mr. Pudewa  seems to really "get" kids like my son who need things spelled out for them.  

 

So far so good!!  I can see why so many people love this program.

 

:-)

[Alte Veste Academy]

I LOVE Mr.Pudewa's teaching style.

 

...I was very encouraged to see that Mr. Pudewa seems to really "get" kids like my son...

My kids and I love him too. I was one who thought IEW would be completely wrong for us until I heard one of Mr. Pudewa's talks, Teaching Boys and Other Kids Who Would Rather Be Playing in Forts, and LOVED his attitude toward boys. I highly recommend a listen!

 

http://www.circeinstitute.org/audio

[happyhappyjoyjoy]

My kids and I love him too. I was one who thought IEW would be completely wrong for us until I heard one of Mr. Pudewa's talks, Teaching Boys and Other Kids Who Would Rather Be Playing in Forts, and LOVED his attitude toward boys. I highly recommend a listen!

 

http://www.circeinstitute.org/audio

I LOVE THIS TALK and highly recommend it.

[lea1]

My kids and I love him too. I was one who thought IEW would be completely wrong for us until I heard one of Mr. Pudewa's talks, Teaching Boys and Other Kids Who Would Rather Be Playing in Forts, and LOVED his attitude toward boys. I highly recommend a listen!

 

http://www.circeinstitute.org/audio

 

This was one of my favorite talks of his also.  He really does get boys and you really see it also with some of the poems he picks in his poetry CD.  We got a big kick out of them.

 

I just wanted to add that I spent a good deal of time reviewing the on-line samples of Writing With Skill Level 1.  I would really like to use this when my sons are ready for it so I wanted to see what it was all about so I would know ahead of time where we are headed, what we need to learn to be ready for it, etc..  After reviewing it on-line I even went ahead and ordered it so I could look at it more closely and just have it to look at every now and then over the next couple of years.  My sons are at around the second half of third grade on most subjects, give or take a couple of months here and there.  So they won't be ready for it for a while yet.  But, having looked at it and knowing what we have been learning with IEW Bible Heroes, I feel really good about where we are and where we are heading with IEW.

 

I know lots of people don't care for IEW's methods of getting there but there are also plenty of people who really think it is very solid (I am one of them) and it just 'fits' their kids.  For me, it fits my kids and it also fits me, which is so helpful because I was not taught how to write well when I was in school.

 

So, just a bit of encouragement for those who are using IEW.

 

[Reefgazer]

I passed on IEW because I didn't get it either. Seemed overly complicated to me.

[ellebro]

Okay, so I've started to see how personality differences can be huge in a subject like writing when it comes to what programs click with which child.  SWI-A is going really well with my son, but not with my daughter (8yo).  She asked today if she could *please* go back to Writing Skills and sometimes work on the story she spontaneously started writing a few weeks ago.  I said yes of course...I don't want to kill her love of writing!  

 

DD is extremely sensitive and HATES when I ask her to revise anything...she takes it as a personal insult, no matter how positively I approach it.  Yesterday there were tears running down her face when I told her it was time to revise her rough draft (from SWI-A). She looked devastated.  I felt horrible.

 

DS, on the other hand, doesn't think twice about revising as long as I speak encouragingly.  I think the step by step approach in SWI-A works well for him, and the topics are right up his alley so far - he is a nature buff and loves critters.   Once again, looks like IEW is living up to its reputation as far as working well with wiggly young boys!

 

I think DD might possibly benefit from a Bravewriter type of approach.  She loves free writing and creative writing.  For some reason she also doesn't mind the simple workbook exercises of Writing Skills, although I don't see her getting much out of them.  I think she only likes them because they are quick and easy and require little thought, lol.  I think for now I'll just let her do freewriting for the rest of the year.  She's only in 3rd grade, after all, and she's doing plenty of other language arts work.  For next year (4th) I'm thinking I might try her in an online Bravewriter class (Kidswrite Basic is for 9 and up.)  I think I will invest in the Bravewriter manual some time soon.  It seems to be half price through the Homeschool Buyer's Co-op.  I wish IEW was discounted there too!  That's two huge expenses in the writing department I'll have to make, but I think it'll be worth it.  

 

 

:-)

[phathui5]

We bought SWI-B and it took me a while to get started on it because I was a little overwhelmed and didn't know where to start. I found the schedule/syllabus in the binder and sat down with the kids and did it. I'm a fan! My oldest really likes it, and dd is willing to do it. Ds is not a fan of writing and relates to a lot of things that Andrew says on the DVDs. Dd likes to write a lot, but I think that this will help her start learning to structure and polish her work.