................... Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 and, just for the record I am ISTJ (complete opposites...I actually prefer the more rules and the more I am shown "how" and "what" to do the better.) She ends up angry and in tears every time we try to do art. Right now, we are using Rod and Staff artpacs (I know, very formulaic) but I had hoped it would just be a relaxing time to do a simple project. I warned her ahead of time that it would be simple and not too creative. BUT, ummm, it does not go well. She says they aren't even art. They are someone else's rules. :( BUT the problem is I do not have time or money for a fun outside class right now and I do not have the patience or time to do anything fun and creative. Probably, if I tried, it would be a disaster. Basically if the project has a particular ending point or goal, she will not like it. If it requires coloring or doing anything a certain way and values neatness over creativity, she will HATE it. She enjoyed a few of the projects we did with Calvert, because they gave her a starting point, but the rest was up to her. She pretty much enjoyed those but they still were not her idea of a really great art class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Then why not just let her have free art time. You must produce something. That's the only rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnwife Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Have you looked at the book "Discovering Great Artists: Hands-On Art for Children in the Styles of the Great Masters"? It's by MaryAnn F. Kohl. It gives a little background on each artist and then a project idea for a starting point. What the student does from there is up to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Keeper Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 The Discovering Great Artists book is great; informative AND open-ended. My kids do their own art time: I do make them read one or two artist bios each year, and schedule out some other type of "art appreciation" book each year (I. e., Usborne Famous Paintings), but art creation is up to them. I provide the materials, some books on technique (could be as simple as Draw Write Now for the youngers, or the something like Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain for jr. high and up), but the end result is up to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexi Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Why not alternate each week? Do the R&S one week and then use one of the Kohl books the next. We've really enjoyed the Kohl books that we've used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinRTX Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 I have not used the Artpacs at that age, but I seem to remember (from the younger ones) that each lesson was trying to teach a skill. Can she look at the lesson and try to work on that skill? And for the next art time apply that skill in a creative work of her own. My daughter (14) is taking an art class right now. She is very creative. We ran into a problem because she wanted to do her own creative thing and not follow the teachers directions. She felt stifled. I talked to the teacher and she said dd needs to work on skills to become a better artist and use her creativity better. There was a time for skill work and a time for creativity. Every artist can lean from the skill work. I am no artist, but that made sense to me. I explained it to dd and she works better in class now. She doesn't always like the skill work, but understands the reasoning. There is always some part of the lesson that is creative (even if it is just choosing the colors you will use). Hope this all makes sense. Linda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurel-in-CA Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 She's young and my tendency would be to get her some materials and let her go at it. BUT even artists (who want to get paid) have to work within some parameters, and that's a skill worth having too. Perhaps you could do something like Discovering Great Artists (as suggested above) and learn about a technique/artist and then let her exercise her creativity within that framework. It's a lot less boring than the Art Paks. My oldest (just finishing her BFA) has always been quite condescending about "craftwork stuff." She doesn't want to do craft projects, at all, ever. But for some of us, those projects are as close as we can get to fine arts and they satisfy the creative urge within us. I have tried to help dd see that it is about creativity within a framework; she is a bit more patient with those things now, as an adult, than she ever was as a child. I know it's pricey, but another option is Atelier Art. I found that the projects were do-able with all skill levels and, in fact, the videos show kids doing lots of different renditions of the same project. It encouraged my youngest dd to see the beginners versus the more skillful students and the teacher all came up with something that showed they had learned from the lesson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
................... Posted October 22, 2014 Author Share Posted October 22, 2014 You know we had that kohl book years ago and it's pretty affordable. I thought atelier looked awesome but man it's expensive! I will look again at that book. Thanks. I did also consider doing the projects but explaining that the skills are to b used later but since we do art together so infrequently I guess it's better to at least look at something fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnwife Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 The library probably has the Discovering Great Artists book. If you are interested in purchasing it, I have one taking up space on my shelf (while I think it looks great, our oldest is 4. It will be a while before we are to that level of art. And I can always use shelf space for books to use now.) GL finding something that works for you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farrar Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 If you can afford to do another book, you could try Art Lab for Kids. We really, really liked that one. Very open ended projects but that push kids to try new techniques and materials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohini Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Art Tango is a free art curriculum that talks about the elements of art (line, color, texture etc...) www.arttango.com Or else, just pinterest some projects. Last year I found a bunch of artist imitation projects on Pinterest and we read a little about the artist, looked at pictures online and then did the imitation projects like these. The products were great and they remember the artists. They also learned a lot about mixing media and technique. http://www.pinterest.com/search/pins/?q=van%20gogh%20kids%20projects&term_meta%5B%5D=van%7Ctyped&term_meta%5B%5D=gogh%7Ctyped&term_meta%5B%5D=kids%7Ctyped&term_meta%5B%5D=projects%7Ctyped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FriedClams Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I can't blame her. Sorry. I tried one of those once and it was terrible. I'd look for something fun on pintrest, hand her some supplies and set her free, or find a 4h group or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurel-in-CA Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Derwent Pencil Co. and Dick Blick's web site both have free art project suggestions that are more artsy and less craftsy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Art With a Purpose (R&S is not the publisher, BTW) is a decent art course, but that doesn't mean your dd has to like it. :-) And it doesn't mean she has to do it. Aren't you glad you didn't spend much money on it? :D Do you have your own set so you can do it with her? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MomatHWTK Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Your DD is right. You learn about art, you learn art techniques and then you create art. You do crafts. If you can use the artpacks to let her learn art history and some techniques then I'd keep it. Just don't make her do the actual copy someone else's work project. I do expect my DD to learn technique from others, but step by step copying is just torture for her. Ample art supplies, lots of demonstration videos and books are what works for her. I treat art history/appreciation as a totally different topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marynamo Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Normally when kids hate art or crafts is when it is presented too strict, boring or they may one do things a certain way. They can't express themselves through their creations. Relax and let you child expore. Let her check out Pinterest for ideas, it is one of the best places to get the mind going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
................... Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 She looked through the book and said, "Mommy I like that other stuff but I don''t think it's worth 150.00. How about if we buy some new glitter and some other paints and stuff and we sit down and do that book but then I do with it whatever I want? Like, I don't have to do it their way? Because, my problem isn't that these projects aren't kind of cute. It's that you want me to do it exactly like they say and I feel depressed." LOL My kid just saved me all kinds of money. She is very frugal. ....I will get her a few new supplies such as glitter and some nice paints, and maybe some packets of buttons and things...and she can have those on hand to do what she wants. I am also considering for her birthday to sign her up for an art class at our local art school. For under 200.00 you get half a year of either painting/drawing or Yarn Crafts. Not to bad when you consider it's an hour and a half class and all materials are included. The class would be her birthday present. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
................... Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 Art With a Purpose (R&S is not the publisher, BTW) is a decent art course, but that doesn't mean your dd has to like it. :-) And it doesn't mean she has to do it. Aren't you glad you didn't spend much money on it? :D Do you have your own set so you can do it with her? I did buy my own set. Why not, for 6.00? I thought it would be fun if we sit together and chat...but it kind of doesn't go that way. I tell her she's not being careful and neat, etc. I can't seem to keep my art thoughts to myself. But maybe I can improve in this area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I did buy my own set. Why not, for 6.00? I thought it would be fun if we sit together and chat...but it kind of doesn't go that way. I tell her she's not being careful and neat, etc. I can't seem to keep my art thoughts to myself. But maybe I can improve in this area. Then you need to *not* tell her that she's not being careful and neat. :-) You be the model, and encourage her in whatever technique or media you're working on, and let her be creative. It's just art, KWIM? :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 My kids enjoy http://artforkidshub.com/ The drawing projects are not so open-ended, but all you need is a sharpie and some paper...then once she completes a drawing (let her pick which one) she can color/decorate it with any medium she wants. There are painting and sculpting lessons, too. Ask her to follow the directions on the video, and then let her modify her project any way she desires when she is done. We watch the video together, talk a little about what needs to happen, then I set my kiddos up at a table together and watch it again, pausing as needed so they can keep up. I find that watching a short segment, then drawing while it's paused works really well. (Otherwise littles will try to watch the video instead of their paper while drawing.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stutterfish Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Then you need to *not* tell her that she's not being careful and neat. :-) You be the model, and encourage her in whatever technique or media you're working on, and let her be creative. It's just art, KWIM? :-) Or perhaps it would be best for her if you just went into another room while she does art, :001_rolleyes: ? Trust me, there is nothing more crushing to creativity than having someone looking over your shoulder, trying to make you do it 'neatly' or 'properly'. If you were cooking your favourite meal and someone was looking over your shoulder reading out of the recipe book, dictating what you should do and when, I expect you'd find it pretty irritating :) She has plenty of years ahead of her to learn specific techniques. The most important thing now is to not crush the pleasure she gets from art. That might mean stepping well back and letting her get on with it. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
................... Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 agreed; I need to just go do something else, and then praise her afterward. :o) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurel-in-CA Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 agreed; I need to just go do something else, and then praise her afterward. :o) This is so totally true. And hang it up on the refrig for Dad to see. And take pictures and make a yearly power point for her of "her" art. After 5th or 6th grade, I had my oldest dd do this on her own, including anything she entered in any competition. It paid off in a big way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Creek Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 I will second the recommendation for Arttango. It is free, it uses supplies that you can find around the house, and it is the first online thing I have found that focuses on techniques, not making crafts or specific art projects. The lessons are very open-ended, meaning that the student is given a general assignment to practice a specific technique, but the actual implementation and design is up to the student. My artistic daughter loves it, and we are sad that it only goes up to fifth grade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plink Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 I'm glad the two of you seem to have come to a middle ground!!! In case this crops up again (and with opposite personality types, I expect it will), I'll give you my tried and true solution to art room drama. Like Ellie said, taking out your own art supplies is key. I usually ask my ISTJ parents to sit beside their student and, rather than commenting on their student's work, I require them to do their own project without making any "suggestions" to one another. None. Not even to warn them that they are about to knock over their paint. Talk about the weather, talk about dinner, but do not give advice. It works like a charm. Mom is distracted from the fact that their ENFP child is going about their project "wrong," follows the rules, and enjoys creating a project exactly like the one I demo. The kid, relieved of the pressure of a hovering parent searching for perfection, gets a bit more creative space, sees that the rules work (by observing that mom's project really did turn out nice) but has the freedom to break all the rules and still come up with their own fantastic piece. In the end both parent and student have enjoyed their time together, and they have more to constructively discuss. After class they compare notes on colors or technique, and spend time complimenting one another rather than stressing out. Art is subjective. It is okay to think that the other guy is going about their work 100% backwards. You don't need to agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
................... Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 Plink....Thank you!! I wish you could come do art with us at our house. It's so funny that you actually think about the personality profiles of the parents. haha I will try these suggestions and also look at Art Tango Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
................... Posted October 24, 2014 Author Share Posted October 24, 2014 wow!! She will love ARttANGO and it's free!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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