Now I'm not sure about cursive first...

[mamamindy]

My DS is 5 now.  Once he started "copying" letters and words I began formally teaching him handwriting so as to discourage bad habits.  After some research, teaching cursive first seemed to really make sense.  I did not teach my two oldest this way, but I was just starting to teach DD2 cursive (with her phonograms)...so it just seemed to make sense.  Anyway, now he really resists writing anything, whereas before he wanted to try to write his letters, his name, etc.  I am really not pushing anything (K is whenever has asks at this point - I usually wait until I see signs that my kids are ready for "school" and he's young) but I am second-guessing this "cursive-first" approach....  I used HWoT for my big girls.  And that was OK.  I didn't love it.  Well, I just hate being afraid of doing the wrong thing, ya know?  Any suggestions for me?

 

 

[rebot]

No suggestions, but I just wanted to let you know that we were there last year.  Finally, after more tears then there should have been, we ditched the cursive and switched to manuscript.  I finally decided, after some great suggestions on here, that it wasn't worth making my DS dislike learning.  We are now happily and very slowly plugging away at manuscript.

 

 

[Zoo Keeper]

There is no way my boys would have been ready (fine motor wise) to do cursive first, especially at five years old.  My daughter?  Yes, she was picking up cursive on her own after half a K year of manuscript.  Different kids.  I do see the benefits of cursive first, but it IS just too much for some young kids (especially sometimes young boys) to wrap their brains and fingers around.  Not worth the fight. 

 

I do cursive after they have become smooth and easy manuscript writers; this shows me they have the fine motor skills and patience to handle cursive.  My third boy is just NOW ready for this at 9 years old.  I tried for the past two years, and he just was not ready.  Something matured in him, and this year he is learning it smoothly and easily.  He is sooo proud that he can finally do it! 

[wapiti]

There is no way my boys would have been ready (fine motor wise) to do cursive first, especially at five years old.

 

All kids are different but just FWIW, most OTs recommend cursive as preferable for many fine motor strugglers.  My ds11 was such a kid (started K barely able to print his name in all-caps with a fist grip, with fine motor skills at such a low level that he received OT at school; he ended K writing quite nice cursive; too bad his school didn't require it as he switched to print to fit in with others in his first grade classroom, and now doesn't remember how to write cursive).  Not having to pick up the pencil in between letters makes a difference.

[Classically Minded]

I tried the whole cursive first thing but found that it actually delayed my daughter's reading.  Once, we quit the cursive, her reading picked up dramatically.  I had read something about cursive causing problems with reading because reading is in print, so I took the chance and tried eliminating it and it was true for us.  She then went on to do cursive at the end of 2nd grade and it was actually easier than before because she taught herself!

[Coco_Clark]

I feel like for every cursive first success story I hear 10-12 stories of people it didn't work for.  I tried it with both my kids and had 2 "fails".  

 

My first is your typical fine-motor struggling boy. But not having to lift the pencil didn't seem to help, in fact, he found all the different curves required extremely difficult.  We did Handwriting Without Tears because the super-simple script made up of just a curve or a line was the only thing that could get him out off writing ALL CAPS ALL THE TIME (mostly straight lines).  I think its an ugly hand, personally, but he did it.   

 

My next loves to color, loves legos, loved all fiddle tiny things, so I thought "Yay! He doesnt struggle with fine-motor, I can do cursive first now!"  But alas he thinks slower than he writes...so while he was thinking which letter came next his pencil was doing all sorts of funny things between them.  He needs the time to lift his pencil and think about the next letter :/

[RootAnn]

Did you start with large motor cursive? Writing in shaving cream (inside a baggie)? writing in a salt box?

 

I admit to not teaching my kids to write until "second semester" of Kindergarten at the very earliest. It would have been a total mistake for me to do pencil-on-paper cursive first with any of mine. (DD#2 started with sidewalk chalk. DD#3 & DS#1 started with writing in sugar in a big container & on the white board with dry erase markers.)

 

But it doesn't work to do cursive first for everyone, obviously. Have you talked to him about why he doesn't want to write anymore?

[mamamindy]

Thank you all for sharing your experiences.

 

 

Did you start with large motor cursive? Writing in shaving cream (inside a baggie)? writing in a salt box? We are still writing in a salt box.  He likes to do this.  I don't see much improvement...but I can be patient.  I must say, we aren't terribly consistent.

 

I admit to not teaching my kids to write until "second semester" of Kindergarten at the very earliest. It would have been a total mistake for me to do pencil-on-paper cursive first with any of mine. (DD#2 started with sidewalk chalk. DD#3 & DS#1 started with writing in sugar in a big container & on the white board with dry erase markers.)  You know, I didn't require much AT ALL of my first two at this point...  But they WANTED to do more writing.  They ARE girls, so this could be part of it.

 

But it doesn't work to do cursive first for everyone, obviously. Have you talked to him about why he doesn't want to write anymore? He doesn't really explain much. ;)  I'll just be patient.  Thank you so much for your suggestions.

 

[mamamindy]

I feel like for every cursive first success story I hear 10-12 stories of people it didn't work for.  I tried it with both my kids and had 2 "fails".  

 

My first is your typical fine-motor struggling boy. But not having to lift the pencil didn't seem to help, in fact, he found all the different curves required extremely difficult.  We did Handwriting Without Tears because the super-simple script made up of just a curve or a line was the only thing that could get him out off writing ALL CAPS ALL THE TIME (mostly straight lines).  I think its an ugly hand, personally, but he did it.   

 

My next loves to color, loves legos, loved all fiddle tiny things, so I thought "Yay! He doesnt struggle with fine-motor, I can do cursive first now!"  But alas he thinks slower than he writes...so while he was thinking which letter came next his pencil was doing all sorts of funny things between them.  He needs the time to lift his pencil and think about the next letter :/

There is so much that is going through his little head at one time, I can tell.  In the program we're using, he's thinking about what SOUND this letter makes, and then what strokes are needed to WRITE it.  I think that's a lot for a little guy.  I will be patient and see where we go.

[Doodlebug]

I know cursive first (as opposed to manuscript) works for many.  For us, it didn't.

 

DS loved the look of cursive and wanted me to teach him at age 5 or 6... but three weeks in, I knew it wasn't right -- the appreciation was gone, replaced by sheer frustration.  On my side, I wasn't ready for a colossal struggle in yet another subject that we could learn later.  So, there were more factors than his readiness, but they all matter in how a day adds up, and the tone set in the home. 

 

I decided to introduce 1st grade cursive this past summer (DS is 8) using New American Cursive.  He was finished with the first workbook by July.  And he's doing copywork in cursive now as a 3rd grader.  I really don't regret waiting... 

 

Love,
Stella

[Hunter]

There are pros and cons to cursive-first.

 

What is certain to fail is to paste cursive-first on modern methods and curricula. Yes, a FEW gifted children can handle cursive-first pasted on a modern curriculum.

 

What is more likely to work is OLDER students using VINTAGE curricula DESIGNED around the REALITIES of young children attempting to write in cursive. And even then cursive is much harder than manuscript for some LD students.

[mamamindy]

There are pros and cons to cursive-first.

 

What is certain to fail is to paste cursive-first on modern methods and curricula. Yes, a FEW gifted children can handle cursive-first pasted on a modern curriculum.

 

What is more likely to work is OLDER students using VINTAGE curricula DESIGNED around the REALITIES of young children attempting to write in cursive. And even then cursive is much harder than manuscript for some LD students.

Will you explain the bolded?  I have a foggy, sleep-deprived moment on the computer.  Thanks. :)

 

I'm pretty confident my son doesn't have any LDs.  I do know deep down that whatever I use, he'll learn just fine despite the mistakes I make in teaching him, or jumping to something else.  I am so thankful my children have shown me grace as *I* learn.  

[SparklyUnicorn]

It may have absolutely nothing to do with cursive or not cursive.  It's like sometimes kids resist something if they figure out that it's important to you. 

 

I did cursive first with one and not with the other.  I don't notice huge differences to be honest. 

 

 

[Hunter]

 

 

My next loves to color, loves legos, loved all fiddle tiny things, so I thought "Yay! He doesnt struggle with fine-motor, I can do cursive first now!"  But alas he thinks slower than he writes...so while he was thinking which letter came next his pencil was doing all sorts of funny things between them.  He needs the time to lift his pencil and think about the next letter :/

 

:iagree:

 

This is huge. Writing in cursive require multitasking, and well as multitasking to think and write at the same time. Romalda Spalding said students need to be in writing syllables, not phonograms, before starting cursive.

 

 

Will you explain the bolded?  I have a foggy, sleep-deprived moment on the computer.  Thanks. :)

 

I'm pretty confident my son doesn't have any LDs.  I do know deep down that whatever I use, he'll learn just fine despite the mistakes I make in teaching him, or jumping to something else.  I am so thankful my children have shown me grace as *I* learn.  

 

The older curricula were designed to be used with cursive-first. Many children didn't start first grade until they were 7. I've noticed that countries that are still cursive-first tend to also be countries that start first grade at 7 years old.

 

Vintage curricula used syllabaries and the students copied the syllabaries. Students did little more than copywork and oral compositions for years, before starting  written compositions. CM got the reputation of being late start, partially because of the late start to written compositions, but that is based on the realities that ALL educators of the time dealt with. Most children cannot write in cursive until they are about 9 years old. In the past they just delayed all writing, instead of teaching manuscript until children were 9.

 

I have a friend that is old enough to have been taught cursive-first in public school. His younger siblings were taught manuscript. He remembers a very slow start to written work. When I told him that Kindergarten often requires research reports now, he couldn't imagine how that was even possible to fake, until I explained workbook pages and manuscript writing.

 

Cursive-first can be used with children without LDs, but the ENTIRE first 3 grades will look entirely different and must be planned around it, unless a child is gifted.

[mamamindy]

:iagree:

 

This is huge. Writing in cursive require multitasking, and well as multitasking to think and write at the same time. Romalda Spalding said students need to be in writing syllables, not phonograms, before starting cursive.

 

 

 

The older curricula were designed to be used with cursive-first. Many children didn't start first grade until they were 7. I've noticed that countries that are still cursive-first tend to also be countries that start first grade at 7 years old.

 

Vintage curricula used syllabaries and the students copied the syllabaries. Students did little more than copywork and oral compositions for years, before starting  written compositions. CM got the reputation of being late start, partially because of the late start to written compositions, but that is based on the realities that ALL educators of the time dealt with. Most children cannot write in cursive until they are about 9 years old. In the past they just delayed all writing, instead of teaching manuscript until children were 9.

 

I have a friend that is old enough to have been taught cursive-first in public school. His younger siblings were taught manuscript. He remembers a very slow start to written work. When I told him that Kindergarten often requires research reports now, he couldn't imagine how that was even possible to fake, until I explained workbook pages and manuscript writing.

 

Cursive-first can be used with children without LDs, but the ENTIRE first 3 grades will look entirely different and must be planned around it, unless a child is gifted.

This DOES make sense to me, at least it's been the experience in our household.  (My DDs didn't learn cursive until around 7yo, and learned it easily at that point.  And I still have them dictate their narrations, etc.  I require very little writing, only for handwriting practice, some copy work, that's it.)  My MIL is a PS K teacher and the writing they do is just ridiculous IMO.

 

So if he WANTS to write, I'd like for him to learn proper letter formation.  I'm still not sure if it should be manuscript or cursive...  And I should clarify that it's not that he's refusing to write now...he's just acting sort of confused, so he hesitates.  He doesn't write randomly when he draws like he used to.  I can tell he'd like to do it RIGHT, kwim?  I have another perfectionist on my hands. LOL

[Hunter]

One option is to teach all caps manuscript, but not the lowercase. If you do this you should limit the amount of writing required though, so the students doesn't learn the habit of uppercase in the wrong places. This is less likely if the all caps is followed by cursive instead of trying to add lowercase manuscript to uppercase manuscript.

 

Also, if you do this, it's best if the slant of the caps matches the slant of the cursive you will be using later.

 

D'Nealian is slanted.

http://www.brainykids.org/sites/default/files/DnealianManuscript.png

 

If you care going to follow up with Spalding or HWoT cursive, traditional caps are fine.

[Hunter]

My current experiment with students is all caps manuscript while learning the alphabet. Followed by lowercase cursive and uppercase manuscript when the student is ready for phonics, with a LOT of copy work, followed by dictation of well known words, and no serious written composition until year 4.

[Hunter]

Here are some free slanted all caps worksheets.

http://www.k12reader.com/handwriting-worksheets-dnealian-print-practice/

[mamamindy]

One option is to teach all caps manuscript, but not the lowercase. If you do this you should limit the amount of writing required though, so the students doesn't learn the habit of uppercase in the wrong places. This is less likely if the all caps is followed by cursive instead of trying to add lowercase manuscript to uppercase manuscript.

 

Also, if you do this, it's best if the slant of the caps matches the slant of the cursive you will be using later.

 

D'Nealian is slanted.

http://www.brainykids.org/sites/default/files/DnealianManuscript.png

 

If you care going to follow up with Spalding or HWoT cursive, traditional caps are fine.

Interesting.  I had considered this for DS.  We used HWoT for my first two, and that is what they learned first anyway.  (I don't care for the lowercase HWoT for a few reasons, so I didn't want to do that again.)  That way he could write his name -and mommy or whatever - but I don't expect he'll want to write much else.  Thanks for the suggestion and sharing your follow-up plans.

[Haiku]

I didn't go the cursive-first route for several reasons. One is that I wanted to reinforce the types of letters my kids would regularly encounter in reading in their everyday life. Those are manuscript letters. Another is that I view cursive as a "school" skill. When I was in school, we spent all of third grade working on cursive, and in fourth and fifth we were supposed to do all our written work in cursive. By 6th grade no one cared, and by 7th I was typing any papers we had to write and printing everything else. I don't use cursive at all as an adult. (Even my signature is my initials, not my cursive full name.) As such, I didn't want to spend a lot of time on it. When the kids were in 3rd and 2nd, we worked on cursive for a few months just so they would be familiar with it. It was a disaster. My son simply couldn't manage it at all (he's dyslexic) and my daughter's writing looked horrible. Now that they are in 7th and 6th, we are working on it again and they are doing fine. Mainly we are working on it because my kids said that when they encountered cursive in books or looked at my mother's old recipes, they couldn't read the cursive. I know there are supposed to be brain benefits from cursive, but there is only so much time in the day, and cursive did not rank high enough for me to devote a lot of time to before now.

[EmilyGF]

How much do you have him write at one time? My lefty is having success with cursive first using the Logic of English curriculum, but she is 6 (turned 6 in September) and she started with only letters for a long time and now rarely writes more than one sentence. All of her play writing is print, which I'm OK with. She has great fine motor skills (she likes to bead and make things with perler beads).

 

My older kids, who were doing print, were writing a lot more at this point because each letter was easier. She is thinking a lot.

[Haiku]

 

This is huge. Writing in cursive require multitasking, and well as multitasking to think and write at the same time. Romalda Spalding said students need to be in writing syllables, not phonograms, before starting cursive.

 

That makes a lot of sense regarding my ds. He is not a mental multitasker. Math has been a struggle with him for the same reason. You have to do the calculation, figure out how to write the number, figure out where to write the number, decide whether there is any carrying or borrowing or what not, line everything up ... it's just now, in 6th grade, that math has really clicked at all.

[RootAnn]

I'm glad you saw the thread & chimed in, Hunter, as I know you've worked extensively with both.

 

I do want to say that I disagree with this small part of your post:

Cursive-first can be used with children without LDs, but the ENTIRE first 3 grades will look entirely different and must be planned around it, unless a child is gifted.

 

My kids (except for dd#3) are not gifted academically. DD#2 & DD#3 both learned cursive first. Neither one had issues learning it, writing in it, or doing the same amount & type of written work as dd#1 who learned manuscript first. In fact, dd#2 wrote MORE -- both creatively and for school -- than dd#1, but that is due more to personality than manuscript/cursive writing. DD#1 was (and still is, to a certain extent,) "allergic to the pencil." She dislikes writing. DD#2 has a huge imagination, makes up stories, and liked to write them. All of my kids so far, except for dd#3, are late bloomers.

 

You may be onto something with the uppercase manuscript thing. DS#1 is learning cursive now after self-teaching upper case letters in manuscript. DS#2 writes in uppercase manuscript - again self-taught. It'll be another year or more before he starts learning to write in cursive.

 

In general, Hunter, I agree with your posts on cursive / manuscript & always like it when you add your perspective.  :001_smile:

[Hunter]

I want to clarify that my definition of gifted is a bit different than many here. I am quicker to use the word gifted and slower to use the word LD. My definition of "average" is 1970's-1990's based, rather than the more rigorous 2010's version.

 

I just remember when "normal", "average" and "on grade level" were based on the what the majority of children did without tears and loss of play time. Anything above that was gifted. And LD's were less common labels. "Normal" included anything that was common.

 

Back to basics was the theme. International competition concerns were at the lowest of the century.

 

Sometime around the mid 90's things started ramping up. A bit earlier in New York. A bit later in the mid west. My boys were in MA. My older was a year ahead of the new MCAS Tests and the introduction of new maths and more rigor. My younger son was in the first year for all the new stuff. They both actually got to experience a bit of what is now entirely gone, before I had to yank them from the insanity that swept through MA like some sort of plague.

 

Many children on the upper edge of normal/average, can function in the gifted range with a little one-on-one attention. Especially in a climate of international competition, parents would never think of these children as gifted and they may even worry that they are LD. And even children that are ever so normal have strengths and weaknesses, that can look very different from another child who is just as normal.

 

So I will rephrase this, no longer using the terms of gifted or LD. I don't believe the majority of young children have yet developed the multitasking abilities that allow producing volumes of written work in cursive, before 9 years old. You will sometimes see composition start in vintage year 3 books but deeper digging often shows that the students using these books usually were at least 7 instead of 6, when starting school; otherwise the year 3 book is mostly oral. According to AO, CM started children with written compositions in year 4, and AO is absolutely NOT a late start curriculum; it's quite rigorous.

 

As a child, I had advanced multitasking abilities. I could have handled cursive-first pasted on top of curricula that required a lot of writing. Girls will often be able to handle certain types of multitasking earlier. The estrogen/testosterone effects on brain development are real and different. I noticed that RootAnne's children were both girls, that handled the cursive-first so early and well.

 

If a child is copying a syllabary, they will probably be able to write fluently in cursive about a year earlier. Even if they can't fully multi-task, the drilling in writing syllables will help partially close that gap.

 

I really should stop using the terms gifted and LD, as those terms have changed SO much. I just really cannot adjust to the new definitions, as it's just too illogical to me that disabled can be SO common. It's like trying to adjust to the idea that 2+2=5 now. Even if that's the accepted norm–how? It would be different if a nuclear bomb went off and all these kids were limbless and truly damaged. But these kids all look and talk and act like kids did in the last generation. I just cannot see the disability. All I see is the tears and stress and higher expectations, but no disability.

[mamamindy]

I'm glad you saw the thread & chimed in, Hunter, as I know you've worked extensively with both.

 

I do want to say that I disagree with this small part of your post:

 

My kids (except for dd#3) are not gifted academically. DD#2 & DD#3 both learned cursive first. Neither one had issues learning it, writing in it, or doing the same amount & type of written work as dd#1 who learned manuscript first. In fact, dd#2 wrote MORE -- both creatively and for school -- than dd#1, but that is due more to personality than manuscript/cursive writing. DD#1 was (and still is, to a certain extent,) "allergic to the pencil." She dislikes writing. DD#2 has a huge imagination, makes up stories, and liked to write them. All of my kids so far, except for dd#3, are late bloomers.

 

You may be onto something with the uppercase manuscript thing. DS#1 is learning cursive now after self-teaching upper case letters in manuscript. DS#2 writes in uppercase manuscript - again self-taught. It'll be another year or more before he starts learning to write in cursive.

 

In general, Hunter, I agree with your posts on cursive / manuscript & always like it when you add your perspective.  :001_smile:

I know I'm resurrecting an old thread... I apologize.  DS has been learning uppercase manuscript because he WANTS to write little things on our chalkboard, notes to his sisters, etc.  I really would like to teach him cursive when he's ready, but he just turned 5 in August.  RootAnn, how did/do you manage to wait with your DS for another year if you are using a program to teach him reading & writing together?  We are also using a Spalding spinoff, and I've been using phonogram tiles (this is working great!) and I guess I plan on teaching him cursive closer to when he turns 6?  I can already see a difference in his fine motor control lately.  He likes to use his pencil, work in "school" workbooks and stuff and I just don't want him to form bad habits.

 

ETA: I see now that your signature says you are teaching your 7yo with SWR, not your 5 yo.  My apologies.  I'd still appreciate hearing how you've done this with your others.  Thanks!

[PeterPan]

If he's ready to write, having him write CORRECTLY is much better than having him guess.  Like you, I'm not a fan of HWT.  I went to the EZ Write site and read enough to figure out their approach (foundational strokes learned to automaticity).  It is turning out to be FABULOUS for ds, highly recommend.  It's also OT-developed and OT-endorsed (our OT uses it!) like HWT.  

 

I'm doing all his writing with gross motor (sandpaper letters, salt tray, standing at an easel, etc.).  I'm going to wait until he has the letters automatic and nicely formed with gross motor before I switch over to paper.  He's newly 6 btw.  I anticipate keeping him this way, writing but with gross motor, at least a full year yet.  I did SWR with my dd and did cursive as the first font (not using Cursive First but BJU) and it was, well it wasn't a mistake but it was an unnecessary complication.  I now realize it's more important that their handwriting motor planning (the strokes) becomes automatic than it does whether it's cursive or print.  In reality, most people write a blend, and in reality most strokes for cursive can be formed with a simple addition to the manuscript.  But going directly to cursive in K5 was SO much more work, with all that emphasis on writing, writing, than was necessary.  We have so much fun writing in salt trays, etc., and his writing is coming along BEAUTIFULLY.  And if we want to switch it to cursive in a year, no biggee.  In fact, that might even be brilliant, to say in sand trays we write manuscript, on paper we connect and write cursive, hehe...   :D

 

http://www.ezwriteonline.com

ez Write - YouTube  There are a number of helpful videos on youtube!

[RootAnn]

You can absolutely do a Spalding spin-off at age 5/6 without doing pencil/paper work. we start with large motor - in the air, in a salt box (although we use sugar), and then on our whiteboard as they get comfortable with the strokes and single letter phonograms. By the time we're into multiletter phonograms and forming words, we are almost always on the whiteboard. Eventually, I start transitioning them to paper.

 

You don't have to rush into small motor in writing. Large motor stuff is GREAT.

And don't forget to play games & have a lot of fun. :-)

[kbutton]

My son learned just enough print to be semi-proficient before we tried cursive (I was looking for cursive that I thought he could handle). We ended up using New American Cursive, but we did large motor writing, and we worked on letters to automaticity. I started with letters that were the easiest, the most similar, and the most used, and I didn't always teach the capital and lowercase of the same letter at the same time. My son wrote right on top of my letters for a long time. Then he started tracing my letters and writing directly below them. We focused on proper strokes, not how it looked, and the we focused on starting the line, etc. When we added a letter, we would write very short words or sometimes just blends using the letters we knew over and over again. I think we spent about half the year writing very short words with just a few letters as well as lots of blends. At some point during the year, his little brain went wild, and he leaped forward. Even if he hadn't, the slow pace and deliberate order in which we worked on letters was working very effectively. Since then, we've seen an OT, and she was really surprised he could write cursive--he has a lot of trouble with task sequencing. But, he was motivated and trying to teach himself cursive (wrong), so it was important to me to figure out a way for him to be successful. 

 

I don't think you should push things, but I thought it might help you to know that our experience with cursive (mostly) first required us to modify a lot of stuff. I was also modifying the pace of phonics and such, so in my case, it was no big deal. My kiddo gets stuck and surges forward in strange increments, and nothing we do comes straight ouf of the box.

[OneStepAtATime]

My son learned just enough print to be semi-proficient before we tried cursive (I was looking for cursive that I thought he could handle). We ended up using New American Cursive, but we did large motor writing, and we worked on letters to automaticity. I started with letters that were the easiest, the most similar, and the most used, and I didn't always teach the capital and lowercase of the same letter at the same time. My son wrote right on top of my letters for a long time. Then he started tracing my letters and writing directly below them. We focused on proper strokes, not how it looked, and the we focused on starting the line, etc. When we added a letter, we would write very short words or sometimes just blends using the letters we knew over and over again. I think we spent about half the year writing very short words with just a few letters as well as lots of blends. At some point during the year, his little brain went wild, and he leaped forward. Even if he hadn't, the slow pace and deliberate order in which we worked on letters was working very effectively. Since then, we've seen an OT, and she was really surprised he could write cursive--he has a lot of trouble with task sequencing. But, he was motivated and trying to teach himself cursive (wrong), so it was important to me to figure out a way for him to be successful. 

 

I don't think you should push things, but I thought it might help you to know that our experience with cursive (mostly) first required us to modify a lot of stuff. I was also modifying the pace of phonics and such, so in my case, it was no big deal. My kiddo gets stuck and surges forward in strange increments, and nothing we do comes straight ouf of the box.

LOVE New American Cursive coupled with the Write Start software!  And we had to modify here, too, but DS is dysgraphic.