Can astigmatism mimic dyslexia/dysgraphia?

[displace]

So I signed the unenroll form for PS this am.  Today is DS's last day.  As I was walking home I felt really bothered if this is the right thing (emotionally).  The only thing nagging at me is we had glasses prescribed for DS.  We saw an ophthalmologist first who said he has astigmatism she felt the glasses would help somewhat but she didn't think it was the main problem.  I mentioned it to the NP (whom I don't have much confidence in, BTW), and she said she'd be on the lookout for vision concerns.  She diagnosed as dyslexia (likely), dysgraphia/dyspraxia (maybe), and to treat as if he has those things. 

 

We just got the glasses over the weekend and haven't been doing any afterschooling so I'm not sure how/if they may help.  But he did say they made things clearer on his tablet on a game so now I'm worried maybe it was just a vision problem all along?  I guess I can see how he's reading tonight and tomorrow and see if there's some epiphany but gosh I'm so scared I'm doing the wrong thing.  My biggest issue is all his phonetic testing seems to be good.  We also are waiting for a COVD appt as recommended by the Drs. Eides in cases of dyslexia diagnoses with good phonics skills. 

 

IDK, in one way it would make sense that some vision concern would mimic dyslexia.  But on the other hand, the phonics he knows is what I directly taught him with AAR (I guess), and when he reads phonics readers he does well, but with the school reading program he struggles, which goes against a pure vision concern. 

 

So nervous, just looking for reassurance that hopefully a professional would pick this up (NP), that even if it's just his vision problems causing this that HSing to catch him up on reading and writing is probably the best anyway and may be a pretty fast process, that there's no harm in HSing to try out and if he goes back it'll be fine. 

 

But hard facts are okay too.  In retrospect I should have at least tried the glasses with reading before unenrolling him from PS.  Eek!  Kind-of really nervous about this whole thing now.

 

ETA -- also his writing goes against a pure vision concern as it's better when there's examples to copy like doing HWT, whereas independently it's illegible.  That would argue against a pure vision problem, right?

[Minerva]

I have no answer to your vision question but just wanted to say CONGRATULATIONS for taking the plunge. Of course you are feeling nervous. You just made a big and exciting change. If it does turn out that he only needs glasses, hooray! That will make things easier for you. May I recommend, for your first day of official homeschooling, breakfast out and a field trip? Celebrate your decision and set the tone for a fantastic journey. Enjoy!

 

[EKS]

Yes, it could be a vision problem.  My son (not the one with dyslexia, but the other one) has a moderate astigmatism in one eye that affected his ability to do lots of things, including reading.  He ended up needing vision therapy as well as the glasses, but the glasses made a big difference just by themselves.  I would recommend that you follow up with a COVD because undiagnosed vision problems can lead to vision processing problems.

 

It's always good to make sure that the eyes and ears are working properly and that the information coming from them is being processed properly before moving on to other diagnoses and therapies/treatments.

 

And, no, a professional would not necessarily pick it up.  Professionals don't pick stuff up *all the time*.  Frankly, our experience with our 2E son has been that they don't pick stuff up *most* of the time.  The NP wasn't looking for vision issues--he/she was looking for brain issues.  If the astigmatism was so severe that it was totally obvious there was something wrong with his vision, then the NP probably would have noticed--but then, your son is 7yo and *you* didn't notice either, isn't that correct?

 

But even if glasses are the whole answer, if your son is behind, you can use this school year to help him catch up.  

[maize]

Vision problems can definitely cause reading difficulties, and hopefully you will find that his challenging resolve quickly with the new glasses. Either way though I don't think that homeschooling for a time will hurt him. 

[maize]

I am very confused and do not know the back story.  Dyslexia has zip to do with eye sight but astigmatism probably needs to be corrected for sure.  I have one and as a kid I squinted everything into focus.  LOL

 

It did not and would not affect ability to read or mimic dyslexia or dysgraphia. 

 

 

Difficulty reading can be related to eyesight. Getting glasses the summer I turned 8 played a big role in my finally learning to read. I think there were developmental issues as well, but being able to easily see the letters and words on the page most definitely makes reading easier :D

[EKS]

Someone here is going to recommend this COVD nonsense and tell you to look into developmental optometry.  Just be cautious.  Its terribly expensive and completely scientifically invalid.  Unproven and expensive are a bad combo IMO.

 

Except that in some cases, it works wonders.  

[displace]

Okay, I'm slightly calmer.  Even if it's just the glasses, he is still behind and still needs remediation and still needs a lot of help with writing.  And HSing during this time to catch him up will be less stressful I think than keeping him in school and remediating.  Aah!  So stressful.  :scared:

[clemota]

Testing for those are complex and an NP (nurse practitioner?) is in no way expert enough to make the call without a full battery of testing.

 

NP = Neuropsychologist, who is qualified to do that full battery of testing.

 

OP, my daughter did well in her first 3 years of parochial school (K-2).  She performed above average, was reading whole books when others in her class were getting through 1-2 pages/day.  She has a general grasp of phonics.

 

She was diagnosed at age 11 with dysgraphia and stealth dyslexia.

 

Dyslexia is more than just being able to read.  It's a process.  Yes, sometimes the eyes are involved, and your COVD should be able to tell you if that is a factor.  It was for my DD, but we didn't know it was a covergance issue, and she wore glasses for nearsightedness for YEARS without us knowing. 

 

It sounds like you're concerned that you've made the wrong decision regarding homeschooling.   If it turns out that your child is fine, that it really was just a case of astigmatism gone amok, you can return him to brick and mortar school WITH NO DAMAGE DONE.    Homeschooling is just a different choice.  You are not going to hurt your DS's school career by "mistakenly" homeschooling him for the rest of the year.  Really - it will be ok!

 

And just think, if the NP/COVD's reports show that there IS evidence of dyslexia/dysgraphia, then you're already ahead!  You can start to make accommodations (many of which are likely to be ignored/forgotten in a busy PS classroom) for your child so that they can succeed in their education.

 

Really, there are no bad sides to your decision, and I just wanted to address that. 

 

No matter what you discover, it will all be ok! :001_smile:

[Heathermomster]

You are in an ideal situation, and I wish I could convince you to see this.  Most children that have been sitting in a classroom do not receive reading helps until beginning 2nd grade and even then, the remediation is less than desirable.

 

Assuming that an astigmatism is your son's only issue, he still requires direct and explicit instruction to catch up.  The school will not provide that instruction.  You could spend the next nine months catching up and place him back in school for second grade.

 

Back up to square one with reading and work with your boy.  Work at his pace.  If an astigmatism is the only issue, he will catch up because you are both motivated and he is exceptionally bright.  A thorough OT evaluation will also identify any motor issues.

 

 

[displace]

Ok, thanks again.  I guess I'm just so frightened.  I'm worried that if we are HSing I won't keep up with PS standards.  I did get common core math Singapore and I have the PS math book I can refer to.  I also know the reading level with the AR system they use.  Science he probably already knows.  And electives are ok.  Writing will be difficult to catch up with.  By the end of the year they're expected to be writing quite a bit with fair sentence structure so we may work on that if his handwriting drastically improves.

 

I think tomorrow we'll start with a light day, just reading, writing, math to see where he's at and if the glasses have resolved all the problems.  The day after we see OT so afterwards I'll make it a free day to the children's museum.  Friday is still to be decided. 

 

Can I say again: :scared:

[OneStepAtATime]

I am very confused and do not know the back story.  Dyslexia has zip to do with eye sight but astigmatism probably needs to be corrected for sure.  I have one and as a kid I squinted everything into focus.  LOL

 

Yes to this.

 

It did not and would not affect ability to process phonics or mimic dyslexia or dysgraphia. 

 

Testing for those are complex and an NP (nurse practitioner?) is in no way expert enough to make the call without a full battery of testing.

 

As Heathermomster said, this stands for Neuropsychologist and they ARE trained to do a full battery of tests.  That is what they do.

 

Some schools teach a blended not explicit phonics reading curricula.  That works for some kids.  Your kiddo may need straight phonics.

 

Yes to this.  The instruction at school seems to be a very bad fit for your son, OP.  At least at the moment I wholeheartedly agree that he may need straight phonics instead.

 

In any case, homeschooling will not hurt anyone.  You sound diligent and involved and tyou will both work hard to learn and hopefully have a great time.

 

100% yes.

 

Someone here is going to recommend this COVD nonsense and tell you to look into developmental optometry.  Just be cautious.  Its terribly expensive and completely scientifically invalid.  Unproven and expensive are a bad combo IMO.

 

This, honestly, I was not going to respond to but I feel I need to say something. This is insulting and rude.  Perhaps you did not intend it to be so.  I hope there was no malicious intent.  Nevertheless, it is insulting.  There are many on these boards that have experienced success with Vision Therapy.  You are basically stating that we are all delusional or easily hoodwinked and will try to convince the OP to follow some sort of voodoo practice.  

 

It is this type of attitude I got from doctors in my area when they made blanket statements like "There is no such thing as dyslexia, just lazy children."  If you don't feel it is a valid method for correcting developmental vision issues (or that there ARE developmental vision issues as opposed to just straight acuity issues), that's fine.  I get that.  You absolutely have the right to your opinion and to express that opinion.  But I am asking you to please be respectful of the other board members in the way you state that opinion.  Many parents here have been through a great deal to help their children.  Statements like this are hurtful and a slap in the face.

 

 

 Dyslexia is a brain issue not an eye issue.  Period.  

 

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/124/2/837.full.html

No, you are right, dylexia is NOT a vision issue.  You are absolutely correct.  

 

But as even you stated up thread, vision issues CAN cause additional difficulties with reading.  My eye sight is fragmenting.  It is definitely causing issues with my ability to read.  I will be going to a Developmental Optometrist to try and help my eye sight.  A standard eye doctor cannot help me.  They have tried.  Just getting new glasses won't help me.  I need Vision Therapy.   My son has heterophoria.  He needed Vision Therapy.  It helped his left eye to align more properly with his right eye.  It did not cause his dyslexia but it did exacerbate his issues.  VT helped.   Whether you believe me or not is irrelevant at this point but I am hoping that in future you can find more polite ways to express your opinion on this matter.

 

Best wishes.

[Mom22ns]

Ok, thanks again.  I guess I'm just so frightened.  I'm worried that if we are HSing I won't keep up with PS standards.  I did get common core math Singapore and I have the PS math book I can refer to.  I also know the reading level with the AR system they use.  Science he probably already knows.  And electives are ok.  Writing will be difficult to catch up with.  By the end of the year they're expected to be writing quite a bit with fair sentence structure so we may work on that if his handwriting drastically improves.

 

I think tomorrow we'll start with a light day, just reading, writing, math to see where he's at and if the glasses have resolved all the problems.  The day after we see OT so afterwards I'll make it a free day to the children's museum.  Friday is still to be decided. 

 

Can I say again: :scared:

 

Really, just run back over to the college board and find last year's college acceptance thread and remind yourself that homeschooling does not mean doing less than public schooling. In most cases, although not all, it means doing more. 

 

Our local public schools offer ONE AP class - Calculus. The only dual enrollment turns college classes into high school classes, taken every day all year for one semester's credit at the community college. We are in decent school district with the average ACT score being well above state and national averages. My kids started accumulating college credit in early high school. They take multiple APs, both self-study and online; college courses both through the community college and the local State U, and many of our high school classes end with a CLEP test for some easy college credit (if their future University accepts it) because that is the level my kids study on. That includes my 2e kiddo. He would NOT be where he is if he were in public school even if he were gifted without disabilities. 

 

Unless your goal is just to catch ds up and get him back into public school ASAP, then stop worrying about what they are doing and start letting him do his best. It will be enough. It has to be, because it is all he has. It may not just be enough though, it may also be stunning and amazing. Quit looking over your shoulder and down at the ground, just hold on and start enjoying the ride.

[PeterPan]

You're just freaking out because you're starting.  Have you gotten the written report from the np yet?  Until you do, you won't know everything she found, and even then it will take you a while to look through stuff and process.  She would NOT have given those diagnoses if the problems could be solved with a pair of glasses.  

 

Stop freaking out.  Go drink some hot cocoa, watch a Jane Austen movie, do whatever relaxes you.  It's going to be FINE.  

 

:)

 

PS.  My kids and I all have astigmatism, and no it doesn't get them a dyslexia label, mercy.

[Crimson Wife]

Astigmatism can lead to eye-teaming problems, and that can cause reading difficulty. It's not that the vision problems cause dyslexia but that the symptoms can be non-specific. The reading difficulties could be due to poor vision, dyslexia, or a combo. The COVD can determine how much (if any) is due to vision, and VT may help over and above dyslexia treatment.

[PeterPan]

Or to flip that, my ds has astigmatism, NO eye teaming problems (per the COVD doc!), and probable dyslexia.  When he puts on his glasses, his visual processing improves, but it doesn't change the dyslexia.  And the psych let out that his CTOPP scores were (at least for something) 25th percentile, meaning dyslexia is definitely on the table.

[Mandylubug]

My daughter needs glasses to help with her focus and tracking. She is still dyslexic. You can have vision issues requiring VT and dyslexia.

[OneStepAtATime]

My daughter needs glasses to help with her focus and tracking. She is still dyslexic. You can have vision issues requiring VT and dyslexia.

:iagree:  :iagree:  :iagree:

[OneStepAtATime]

displace, please, please, please don't force your child to stay at the ps pace for material.  I want you to think long and hard about this .  I taught in ps.  A large number of my family members teach in ps.  Most ps programs do NOT teach to mastery.  Many children do not master the material before they move on to the next thing.  It is assumed that with repetition each year that eventually the material will stick.  And frequently really advanced kids that have learning challenges are not allowed to advance in the material they could do exceedingly well at because of those challenges.

 

And when kids get to the next grade level, teachers have to go back and reteach old material at the beginning of each year since the kids forget so much over the summer, which takes time.  They may not start with new material or more advanced material for weeks or even months. Also, a lot was not truly mastered and internalized to begin with so the foundation is shaky moving into the next grade. And rarely is a textbook actually completed by the end of the year.  Whole chapters have to be skipped for lack of time.  

 

It is very different teaching a large class of kids.  And incredibly hard to do.  Lots of kids just kind of limp along.  And others could fly through the material but are forced to work at a much slower pace.  Don't stress over the ps pace.

 

For instance, when DD was in 2nd grade they never even got to the last 5 chapters of their math text.  There wasn't time.

 

And when DS was in 2nd we got a memo stating that when 50% of the students could pass timed math tests for addition and subtraction they were moving forward with multiplication.  This meant that half the class would be moving forward even when they weren't ready.  Too bad, so sad.  And this also meant that the kids that had already grasped these facts were having to wait for at least 50% of the class to catch up.  The advanced kids and the kids who needed more time/instruction just had to suck it up.  In other words, the class was structured so that only about 25% of the kids would really be going at the pace that was right for them.

 

PS works great for a lot of kids.  I did well in ps.  But it is NOT the best option for all kids.  

 

You are not a public school system with a large group of children that have to be taught on a mass level.  You are a parent with just a couple of kids, only one of whom is truly homeschooling.  You can take the time to truly work through the material at mastery level.  You can take the time to help him truly succeed.  Go at the pace of your child, I beg you.  If he is doing well, move forward.  If he is struggling, slow down, try a different approach, back off for a while or whatever will work for success.  

 

You can do this.  And while there will be tough days, there will also be wonderful days.  Take time out to pull back from a different way of educating.   This is not ps.  This is different.  Go on field trips.  Do read alouds.  Play educational games.  Do research on something that matters to him.  Take a breather.  Then start slow.   Give yourselves time to adjust.  And try not to focus on the deficits but on the strengths.  Give him a chance to shine in those areas.  Remediate the weaker areas but celebrate his strengths.  You won't regret it.

[PeterPan]

Since we never talk about nurse practitioners around here, it doesn't matter.  But label your psych as you wish when you discuss him.  

[OneStepAtATime]

Bc I am a bit of a pain in the %ss...

 

NP is the appropriate designation for nurse practitioner. PsyD maybe is what you want or Neuro psych in common parlance

 

Continue as you were.

I guess what I should have said is on the LC board, because neuropshychologist is rather long, a lot of people have shortened it to NP.  I realize this is not the official abbreviation and I am sure others do too, but NP is so much easier to type.  There are many unofficial abbreviations used on this board and other sub-forums here on the WTM.  Took me quite a while to catch on to what everyone was saying.  

[PeterPan]

I guess what I should have said is on the LC board, because neuropshychologist is rather long, a lot of people have shortened it to NP.  I realize this is not the official abbreviation and I am sure others do too, but NP is so much easier to type.  There are many unofficial abbreviations used on this board and other sub-forums here on the WTM.  Took me quite a while to catch on to what everyone was saying.  

You know, we could be REALLY snarky and choose which one we think is more important and elevate them to NP status.  np=neuropsych, NP=nurse practitioner.  But mercy, the neuropsych is better educated, so I guess we should switch that.  Or maybe they're BOTH equal since a nurse practitioner is ALMOST like a doctor and a neuropsych has a phd that gets the label doctor...  Or we could go by the one who charges more.  Or we could be total Sneeches and put a *star* around one of them.  I say the nurse practitioners the stars because they're the stars and popular in the doctors offices.  But then the neuropsych manages to make you see stars when you sit in his office and hear the results.

 

Nope, can't solve this one.   :lol:

[OneStepAtATime]

You know, we could be REALLY snarky and choose which one we think is more important and elevate them to NP status.  np=neuropsych, NP=nurse practitioner.  But mercy, the neuropsych is better educated, so I guess we should switch that.  Or maybe they're BOTH equal since a nurse practitioner is ALMOST like a doctor and a neuropsych has a phd that gets the label doctor...  Or we could go by the one who charges more.  Or we could be total Sneeches and put a *star* around one of them.  I say the nurse practitioners the stars because they're the stars and popular in the doctors offices.  But then the neuropsych manages to make you see stars when you sit in his office and hear the results.

 

Nope, can't solve this one.   :lol:

:lol:

[EKS]

Bc I am a bit of a pain in the %ss...

 

NP is the appropriate designation for nurse practitioner. PsyD maybe is what you want or Neuro psych in common parlance

 

Continue as you were.

 

Except anyone who has been on this particular board for a reasonable length of time knows that when someone writes "NP" they generally mean neuropsych.

[EKS]

Also, here is what the Eides have to say on the topic of of vision issues and dyslexia.

[Lecka]

I think it sounds like your son is at least a little behind and he is currently upset in school.  If it turns out to be a vision problem, and glasses really help it, I think your son might catch up to his grade level really quickly.  If that happens -- you could have an option of putting him back in school next school year, easily.  If he just flies -- maybe even after Winter break. 

 

I think your son sounds like he is so stressed out, though, that he needs to be out of school, if school will not work with him.  He needs to be able to get caught up, and it will be easier this way.

 

I am an afterschooler here and not committed to the idea of homeschool ----- I have known quite a few people who keep their kids out of school for a semester or year to "catch them up" in this kind of situation.  It has always worked out well.  Some people end up loving homeschooling.  Some people like their time together, but are fine for the time to come to an end and their kids to go back to public or Christian school.

 

Honestly I think you are making the right choice.  I don't think it is a big deal to homeschool and it turns out to be temporary, and your son goes back confident and in a good situation.  Right now your son is not confident and not in a good situation, in school, and it is really hard on kids to be in that place, I don't think it is okay, I don't think it is okay the school has not worked with you and him more. 

[displace]

Thanks for all the replies! You are all so great :). I'd like to respond individually but I'm on my phone so it won't happen right now.

 

I had DS try on his glasses watching a show and he said it was much clearer. Then just a little trial reading the heading of a book. He said the wrong thing both times with and without glasses pluralizing a word. I know it's not a double blinded scienteriffic study but for a second it made me feel calmer.

 

Neuropsychologist report is in 2 weeks.

 

In my mind, LC is lactation consultant :)

 

DS and I went to the library and already there were a bunch of books for us. DS wants to study the solar system so we'll read all about it, watch magic school bus episodes, make a model, maybe buy a super rocket, etc. I'm still waiting on curriculum but I think we will do Barton as it seems the most comprehensive OG home system. Might as well go all in. So tomorrow we can take the test. Do some handwriting, listen to SOTW, and... I don't know! ;). But I'm excited. DS is anticipating boring math so maybe just math games instead. Ha! Or miquon. He looked through a book one time and seemed interested in it.

[Lecka]

I am just agreeing with One Step -- every year we get math workbooks with 50 blank pages in them.  Some of this they have done in class and not done the worksheets, but some of this they have just skipped.  I have gotten notes home saying the teacher has decided to skip Chapter such-and-such because the kids need to spend more time on Chapter such-and-such.  They just do not do that chapter, and figure they will cover it the next year.  It is very true.

 

Another thing, I think, is that in a classroom, kids get many chances to be exposed before they are on the spot to give an answer.  They get to see how other kids answer and hear what other kids say and see how other kids do their math problems in different ways.  It is not something where the teacher presents the lesson and then there is this sense of "okay, now, answer everything correctly, show you have retained everything."  Sure that is how some kids will do in various areas.  But if it is a little harder, there are kids who are getting to see a lot of examples and getting a lot of chances to be exposed.  I think in working one-on-one, you have to keep in mind it is just one kid, it is not the aggregate knowledge and ideas of 20 kids.  One kid cannot come up with every observation and have instant understanding.  So ----- keep that in mind, and keep in mind you might have a greater role as a sounding board and that is normal and even good.  Your child will have a lot more chance to think and speak.  But -- even in public school the teachers do not just present the material and go "okay, now you have all got it!"  It is just not realistic.  But -- I had a problem with thinking that way when I was first starting to work with my son.  It was so counter-productive, I just did not realize it for a little while.  I have seen more group learning now and I see how he benefits.  But -- I think it is the same benefit with one person, if you just think that way and go ahead and do it, instead of just feeling like "okay, I presented the lesson, why does he not get it?"  Not that I was that bad, but I felt a little that way. (I also think that is quite an idealistic view of group learning, but I also think my son has a lot of times where it really works like that for him in school.  I think he is at a good level, where he can learn from other kids, too.)

[OneStepAtATime]

I am just agreeing with One Step -- every year we get math workbooks with 50 blank pages in them.  Some of this they have done in class and not done the worksheets, but some of this they have just skipped.  I have gotten notes home saying the teacher has decided to skip Chapter such-and-such because the kids need to spend more time on Chapter such-and-such.  They just do not do that chapter, and figure they will cover it the next year.  It is very true.

 

Another thing, I think, is that in a classroom, kids get many chances to be exposed before they are on the spot to give an answer.  They get to see how other kids answer and hear what other kids say and see how other kids do their math problems in different ways.  It is not something where the teacher presents the lesson and then there is this sense of "okay, now, answer everything correctly, show you have retained everything."  Sure that is how some kids will do in various areas.  But if it is a little harder, there are kids who are getting to see a lot of examples and getting a lot of chances to be exposed.  I think in working one-on-one, you have to keep in mind it is just one kid, it is not the aggregate knowledge and ideas of 20 kids.  One kid cannot come up with every observation and have instant understanding.  So ----- keep that in mind, and keep in mind you might have a greater role as a sounding board and that is normal and even good.  Your child will have a lot more chance to think and speak.  But -- even in public school the teachers do not just present the material and go "okay, now you have all got it!"  It is just not realistic.  But -- I had a problem with thinking that way when I was first starting to work with my son.  It was so counter-productive, I just did not realize it for a little while.  I have seen more group learning now and I see how he benefits.  But -- I think it is the same benefit with one person, if you just think that way and go ahead and do it, instead of just feeling like "okay, I presented the lesson, why does he not get it?"  Not that I was that bad, but I felt a little that way. (I also think that is quite an idealistic view of group learning, but I also think my son has a lot of times where it really works like that for him in school.  I think he is at a good level, where he can learn from other kids, too.)

Goodness I so agree with you Lecka!  And hadn't really been thinking along these lines but this is a very valid point!

[Storygirl]

So many good replies already! I don't have much to add, except:

 

1) I have astigmatism. No learning disabilities or dyslexia. In fact, I have never met anyone who reads more than I do. Books are my thing. With that said, I totally agree that having an uncorrected vision problem can impede academics, including reading. Only time will tell with your son. But astigmatism and dyslexia are not linked.

 

2) I agree with OneStep about not trying to replicate or keep up with public school standards. Can't say it better than she did.

[EKS]

 But astigmatism and dyslexia are not linked.

 

This is true--however, untreated astigmatism can cause visual processing problems that don't resolve when the child gets glasses.  

[maize]

Except anyone who has been on this particular board for a reasonable length of time knows that when someone writes "NP" they generally mean neuropsych.

 

:iagree: '

 

It's not as if all the other abbreviations used on the board are official professional designations or anything ;) the point is to get meaning across briefly and concisely, and as long as people generally understand each other that is sufficient. If we don't catch someone's meaning we can always ask... 

[EKS]

I am not sure this is accurate.

 

the science is super clear that dyslexia is a brain issue not a vision issue. Its just not disputable at this point.

Um, yes it is accurate. If visual input to the brain is disrupted due to visual acuity problems, the brain doesn't learn to process the images properly. Google refractive amblyopia.

 

Did you read what the Eides have to say about the association between dyslexia and vision issues? No one here is saying that dyslexia is a vision issue. They're saying that vision issues can mimic some of the symptoms of dyslexia and that vision issues can make dyslexic challenges more acute.

[LaughingCat]

the science is super clear that dyslexia is a brain issue not a vision issue. Its just not disputable at this point.

I don't think that is true statement.  I'm taking the Cousera course Supporting children with difficulties in reading and writing by University of London, and they talk about the fact that the research is not clear on auditory and visual and how they impact reading issues and/or dyslexia.   So at least some scientists believe that this is still a viable research pathway. 

 

Plus it appears to me that you are using the word dyslexia as if it meant the generic definition of  "issues with reading" but the research you cite are using the word dyslexia in a far more narrow context .  EKS'  statement does not even mention dyslexia.  It mentions visual processing problems causing reading issues.  Dyslexia in it's medical definition is phonemic issues causing reading problems.  So it's as if you are saying "phonemic issues are not a vision issue" somehow refutes "visual processing problems can cause reading issues"  -- Just using normal logic, these two statements are not even related.   All reading issues are not dyslexia. 

[Tokyomarie]

I am not sure this is accurate.

 

the science is super clear that dyslexia is a brain issue not a vision issue. Its just not disputable at this point.

 

Yes, dyslexia IS a BRAIN issue. However, dyslexic children can have vision difficulties (other than visual acuity) that compound the reading problems. Some of those are treatable with vision therapy. When the vision problems are resolved, it is easier for a child to work on the dyslexia-related difficulties- whether it is phonemic awareness, phonics, morphology, or memory for word forms.

 

[EKS]

No scientific evidence shows this to be true.

I guess you haven't read what the Eides have to say about this?

[OneStepAtATime]

I understand these people wrote a popular book, but peer reviewed science is what I am after here.

They didn't just write a popular book, they have done years and years of research.

[LaughingCat]

candelsmom, I really get that you think VT is 100% bunk and feel like you have to be hard core to balance all the VT believers  - but being so adamant dilutes your argument rather than strengthening it (IMO).  

 

And I say this as someone who has really moved away from believing in VT as a first choice.   

1. VT does have scientific evidence  -- showing it works to improve convergence issues
2. VT has little to no (depending on how strictly you define the standard for evidence) scientific evidence showing improvement in convergence improves reading
3. Various OG systems have the best evidence of working of the systems that have been studied
4. Other OG systems have little to no evidence so far (which includes Barton)
5. The best hypothesis currently for dyslexia is that it is a phonological issue not a vision issue
6. There are various other theories of dyslexia that are still "in the running" though - such as the magnocellular theory, the rapid auditory processing theory and even (gasp) the visual theory

    

   The major weakness of the phonological theory is its inability to explain the occurrence of sensory and motor disorders in dyslexic individuals. Supporters of the phonological theory typically dismiss these disorders as not part of the core features of dyslexia. They consider their coâ€occurrence with the phonological deficit as potential markers of dyslexia, but do not see them as playing a causal role in the aetiology of reading impairment (e.g. Snowling, 2000).

    

[EKS]

I understand these people wrote a popular book, but peer reviewed science is what I am after here.

 

I'm not talking about their "popular book."  I'm talking about the thing I linked to upthread.  Among other things, they were discussing an article published in the British Journal of Ophthalmology.  Which is a peer reviewed journal.

[OneStepAtATime]

There is simply no real credence to this stuff.  Obviously you can site a few minor studies or whatever but really, the AAP writes on this for a reason.  The reason is to warn parents off of snake oil quick fixes and hoaxes perpetrated by scammers.  

 

The one best approach to remediation of dyslexia is OG or other evidence based methods.

Yes.  And not one person here is disputing that statement.   Although I would add a clarifier in that new evidence being studied right now in the scientific community is indicating dyslexia in the broader sense is far more multifaceted and complex than was once thought.

[EKS]

There is simply no real credence to this stuff.  Obviously you can site a few minor studies or whatever but really, the AAP writes on this for a reason.  The reason is to warn parents off of snake oil quick fixes and hoaxes perpetrated by scammers.  

 

The one best approach to remediation of dyslexia is OG or other evidence based methods.

 

No one here is claiming that VT will cure dyslexia.  It does help other issues though and those issues can impede the progress of remediation using OG-type methods.

 

And I can assure you that VT is not a "quick fix."

[Storygirl]

Um, yes it is accurate. If visual input to the brain is disrupted due to visual acuity problems, the brain doesn't learn to process the images properly. Google refractive amblyopia.

 

Did you read what the Eides have to say about the association between dyslexia and vision issues? No one here is saying that dyslexia is a vision issue. They're saying that vision issues can mimic some of the symptoms of dyslexia and that vision issues can make dyslexic challenges more acute.

 

I agree with two points here, that I wanted to highlight.

 

1) My dad (now 80) had amblyopia and was not treated (not caught soon enough). His vision did not develop, and he has always been legally blind in that eye. So, yes, some vision issues, if addressed too late, can cause lifelong vision loss.

 

2) We seem to do a lot of arguing about whether VT helps dyslexia, and I think that EKS hit the nail on the head with her bolded comment. Some kids may be diagnosed (incorrectly) with dyslexia due to vision issues. So everyone -- parents, teachers, kid -- believes that their reading difficulty is dyslexia. When their vision issues are remediated, and the reading problem is solved, it is true that dyslexia was not cured by the vision therapy, but their reading issues were helped, because their vision improved. Vision therapy was successful for them. For a child whose reading issues are phonological/auditory, the VT would not help.

 

Compounding the issue is that some kids can have both vision issues and phonological issues that make reading difficult. Why would this not be possible? So it follows that VT would help some of their reading problems, though not all of them. The part of the difficulty that is due to dyslexia, not vision, would need to be remediated in a different way.

 

Even if we all agree that the true definition of dyslexia has nothing to do with vision, we should be able to agree that a child with a vision issue will be helped by having their vision issue treated.

 

VT will not help everyone. A COVD fellow has told me that neither of my two kids has a physical eye problem that would benefit from VT, even though one of them is most likely dyslexic, and the other has severe impairment with visual processing. Other children DO have issues that a COVC could treat. Just because my kids would not benefit does not mean that it is a total crock for everyone.

[OneStepAtATime]

OP, I think your thread has gotten a bit muddled.  I am bowing out of this conversation now, but not because I don't care.  I am rooting you on with whatever you decide is the best path for you and your child.  I just don't want to keep beating a dead horse when I don't think it is benefiting you or your child.  Best wishes.   :)

[PeterPan]

Just remember, vision is not a brain issue because the information goes into the nose for processing.

[geodob]

Dyslexia as an Inclusive term?

Or Dyslexia as an Exclusive term?

 

Where its real value is as a Generic term which has a basic global awareness.

In the English speaking world, most people have at least heard of the word Dyslexia, and know that is something to do with a difficulty with reading/ writing.

 

Where for people with Dyslexia, in our age of the internet.  Dyslexics no longer feel alone with their 'difficulty'?

But a part of the global community of Dyslexics.

For people in the Dyslexic community, their is a recognition that it effects each of them in somewhat different way.

They don't argue that their own experience of Dyslexia is the one and only definition of Dyslexia?

Rather they recognize that while they share some common difficulties.

In other ways they have unique difficulties.

But they don't exclude people, because they have different underlying cause of their difficulty.

 

It is the 'outsiders', the Non-Dyslexics who argue over who qualifies as a member of the Dyslexic Community ?

Who want to make it exclusive.

Where these Outsiders struggle with each other, to define who qualifies as member ?

For a Community that they have no real understanding of ?

 

The true definition of Dyslexia, is unique to each individual.

[OneStepAtATime]

Dyslexia as an Inclusive term?

Or Dyslexia as an Exclusive term?

 

Where its real value is as a Generic term which has a basic global awareness.

In the English speaking world, most people have at least heard of the word Dyslexia, and know that is something to do with a difficulty with reading/ writing.

 

Where for people with Dyslexia, in our age of the internet.  Dyslexics no longer feel alone with their 'difficulty'?

But a part of the global community of Dyslexics.

For people in the Dyslexic community, their is a recognition that it effects each of them in somewhat different way.

They don't argue that their own experience of Dyslexia is the one and only definition of Dyslexia?

Rather they recognize that while they share some common difficulties.

In other ways they have unique difficulties.

But they don't exclude people, because they have different underlying cause of their difficulty.

 

It is the 'outsiders', the Non-Dyslexics who argue over who qualifies as a member of the Dyslexic Community ?

Who want to make it exclusive.

Where these Outsiders struggle with each other, to define who qualifies as member ?

For a Community that they have no real understanding of ?

 

The true definition of Dyslexia, is unique to each individual.

:iagree:

[SandyKC]

Someone here is going to recommend this COVD nonsense and tell you to look into developmental optometry.  Just be cautious.  Its terribly expensive and completely scientifically invalid.  Unproven and expensive are a bad combo IMO.

 

I'm sorry, but to put it in as strong of terms as you used, this is a completely ignorant, antiquated point of view that only serves to drive some moms away from the help their child potentially needs.

 

Perhaps you should read scientific research before calling developmental vision issues "nonsense".  It is by NO means, "completely scientifically invalid," and there are definitely ocular motor issues that affect a child's visual perceptions.  And those developmental issues can be corrected with what you call COVD "nonsense." http://www.covd.org/?page=Research

 

The reason some people end up thinking it is "nonsense" is because they pursue it when it is the WRONG solution for their child and/or they end up with an unscrupulous doctor that provides therapy when not needed. But that's no reason to throw the whole profession out the window.

[SandyKC]

So I signed the unenroll form for PS this am.  Today is DS's last day.  As I was walking home I felt really bothered if this is the right thing (emotionally).  The only thing nagging at me is we had glasses prescribed for DS.  We saw an ophthalmologist first who said he has astigmatism she felt the glasses would help somewhat but she didn't think it was the main problem.  I mentioned it to the NP (whom I don't have much confidence in, BTW), and she said she'd be on the lookout for vision concerns.  She diagnosed as dyslexia (likely), dysgraphia/dyspraxia (maybe), and to treat as if he has those things. 

 

We just got the glasses over the weekend and haven't been doing any afterschooling so I'm not sure how/if they may help.  But he did say they made things clearer on his tablet on a game so now I'm worried maybe it was just a vision problem all along?  I guess I can see how he's reading tonight and tomorrow and see if there's some epiphany but gosh I'm so scared I'm doing the wrong thing.  My biggest issue is all his phonetic testing seems to be good.  We also are waiting for a COVD appt as recommended by the Drs. Eides in cases of dyslexia diagnoses with good phonics skills. 

 

IDK, in one way it would make sense that some vision concern would mimic dyslexia.  But on the other hand, the phonics he knows is what I directly taught him with AAR (I guess), and when he reads phonics readers he does well, but with the school reading program he struggles, which goes against a pure vision concern. 

 

So nervous, just looking for reassurance that hopefully a professional would pick this up (NP), that even if it's just his vision problems causing this that HSing to catch him up on reading and writing is probably the best anyway and may be a pretty fast process, that there's no harm in HSing to try out and if he goes back it'll be fine. 

 

But hard facts are okay too.  In retrospect I should have at least tried the glasses with reading before unenrolling him from PS.  Eek!  Kind-of really nervous about this whole thing now.

 

ETA -- also his writing goes against a pure vision concern as it's better when there's examples to copy like doing HWT, whereas independently it's illegible.  That would argue against a pure vision problem, right?

 

Going to stay out of most of the hoopla other than my single prior post to set the facts straight.  I did want to answer the question that is the title of this thread.

 

Plainly put, astigmatism can mimic some aspects of dyslexia/dysgraphia.  Astigmatism affects visual perception, so that can affect a child's ability to read easily or write legibly.  Astigmatism is corrected by glasses though, so if glasses don't correct the problem, then there could easily be something else going on.

 

Whether your individual child's problems are developmental vision issues or rooted in neurological dyslexia would have to be assessed by qualified professionals.  The main resources for those evaluations would be a COVD qualified doctor and a neuropsychologist.  Since your child could have one or the other or both, you might want to take the "most likely" route of evaluation first, and if you can easily afford it---take both routes to rule in or rule out your child's specific needs.

 

We *knew* our oldest had neurological issues going on, and our neuropsych eval did reveal those. However, when working with DS, his eyes would water and he complained of them hurting. He had 20/20 vision, so we had him evaluated by a COVD doc and my son also had convergence insufficiency.  A year later, after DS completed vision therapy, his eyes no longer bothered him and working on reading otherwise was easier.

 

CONGRATULATIONS on your decision to homeschool!! :-D  Know that we're all cheering you on here.  It's an interesting and sometimes challenging road, but often worth every minute you pour into your child. ;-) 

[displace]

OP, I think your thread has gotten a bit muddled... Best wishes. :)

That's okay. I've been busy trying to figure out how to homeschool! :)