Bad college grades

[Kathie in VA]

Ug so frustrating. First dc to start community college didn't do so well. Then again she was an angry freshman. Now, after getting her act together and switching colleges n moving out, she is doing better and it looks like she will probably get good grades. Somewhere in all that next dc started CC. He started better but still didn't get better then Cs. He smart and seems to understand the work, he is just a poor/lazy student. So much for homeschooling! I mean really, he is retaking a class to do better then a C and still getting bad grades! Ug! Really! And he is living at home with us. I have three more. Next two already seem more studious but I'm tempted to just put them all in school.

[kiana]

I doubt the school will do any better. This is far more common than you realize. 

 

Are you paying for the school or is he? If he's a lazy student, I'd tell him that you are not paying for his school next semester due to lack of work ethic and he needs to get a job. For many people (including me) some time at a minimum wage job will really bring in "Man, I should have gone to classes". I wouldn't tell him you'll never pay for him again. I just wouldn't pay for next semester if this semester's grades aren't good. I'd let him re-visit the decision next fall. 

 

Of course, if he's paying his own way, it's his business. 

[Catherine]

Yes, I think finding a way to encourage some buy-in might be helpful, IF you are sure this is simply laziness and not some deeper issue.

[creekland]

I doubt the school will do any better. This is far more common than you realize. 

 

Are you paying for the school or is he? If he's a lazy student, I'd tell him that you are not paying for his school next semester due to lack of work ethic and he needs to get a job. For many people (including me) some time at a minimum wage job will really bring in "Man, I should have gone to classes". I wouldn't tell him you'll never pay for him again. I just wouldn't pay for next semester if this semester's grades aren't good. I'd let him re-visit the decision next fall.  

 

This solution works for MANY students I've seen.  I even had one stop me and my youngest at the mall a couple of years back to talk about his life and what had happened since he left school a couple years prior to that (basically minimum wage jobs, but also marriage and a child).  At that point he finally decided to apply himself due to seeing how futile life had been without an education of some sort and he also cautioned youngest to not make the mistakes he did.

 

I definitely don't see where ps will make anything better.  MANY from our school head out to college and don't do well partially due to work ethic and partially due to getting a poor academic foundation.

 

When it's work ethic, there's nothing like working at some minimum wage jobs and trying to make a go of it to get many looking for something better and figuring out how to accomplish it.  It might not be college.  It might be trades, but that's ok too.

[Sunshine State Sue]

I know a parent who reimburses 100% for each A, 75% for a B, and 50% for a C.  This helped to motivate the dd. 

[G5052]

Some of it may be community college "culture."  Seriously.  Sometimes as a professor it bugs me because just a handful care about doing well, and I've seen students buy into this without thinking about the ramifications.  The majority are just getting by, so they do.  Or they don't bother following the directions because hardly anyone is.

 

Case in point.  I gave a midterm last night.  I could not have been more explicit about what was on it.  In fact this is the most explicit I've been in 16 years of teaching.

 

The grades ranged from 35-100.  Three 100's among 20 (the students who listened to me), with a mean of 78.  All of my homeschooled kids, both graduates and dual enrollment, got below 70%.  Afterwards a handful of students was complaining that it covered so many chapters, and it was so hard to study.  Even though I told them EXACTLY which topics and pages to study.  They didn't follow my instructions which were given both in class and in Blackboard.

 

Next year my firstborn goes there.  He's been the top student in every dual enrollment class he's taken, so I'm hopeful.  But I'm concerned too.  

 

 

[8filltheheart]

I think what you are seeing is par for the course. If the high school experience didn't included having to work to earn a grade, then its a big adjustment to do so in college. My kids went to public high school. Nonhonors classes are 1/3 subjectively graded on class participation....in otherwords to earn a 90 you 've go to get the teacher to like you enough to call on you. When they get to college, they find the charm they've learned to use is useless and they have to actually earn the grade with just test results. And no one reviews the day or just tests the big ideas. It is a huge adjustment to being tested over the details and studying for not just a unit test, but midterms and finals. One of the DE teachers here tells the high schoolers that 'a high school 100 is a college 70'...and it takes a while to sink in. And then the gpa calc. A C- does not get you a 2.0. In my area, high school grades are numericala nd it's easy to carry a 95 average. Adjusting to letter for the first time in college takes some adjustment. And a 95 isn't a 4.0.

I think a distinction needs to be made between not having to work hard to earn a good grade vs. having a strong work ethic with the intrinsic motivation to learn. My kids work hard learning material that they are never tested on. I don't give my kids tests in any subjects other than math and science (and science only in high school.) Most of their evaluations are done via essays and discussion. None of my older kids have made poor grades in college.

 

If testing was the only difference, my kids, especially my avg students,should have felt like they were thrown into the deep end without knowing how to swim. They haven't. They have all excelled.

 

I think the difference is that many kids are being taught that only what they have to memorize for tests is important and they don't really put the effort in to learning the material. Learning for the sake of learning is not lauded in modern education.

[FaithManor]

Some of it may be community college "culture."  Seriously.  Sometimes as a professor it bugs me because just a handful care about doing well, and I've seen students buy into this without thinking about the ramifications.  The majority are just getting by, so they do.  Or they don't bother following the directions because hardly anyone is.

 

Case in point.  I gave a midterm last night.  I could not have been more explicit about what was on it.  In fact this is the most explicit I've been in 16 years of teaching.

 

The grades ranged from 35-100.  Three 100's among 20 (the students who listened to me), with a mean of 78.  All of my homeschooled kids, both graduates and dual enrollment, got below 70%.  Afterwards a handful of students was complaining that it covered so many chapters, and it was so hard to study.  Even though I told them EXACTLY which topics and pages to study.  They didn't follow my instructions which were given both in class and in Blackboard.

 

Next year my firstborn goes there.  He's been the top student in every dual enrollment class he's taken, so I'm hopeful.  But I'm concerned too.  

 

This is everywhere and I blame it on hand holding, and grade inflation. Students are used to getting "something for nothing", and whining being taken seriously by teachers and administrators.

 

My friend teaches algebra 2 and pre-calc at out local PS. One year, due to his minor in science, he also had one hour of biology. He gave an exam in class, one that he'd given very precise study instructions for, and forgot to take down a bunch of posters and bulletin board information in his room that provided a tremendous number of answers to the questions on the test. Over half the class failed. He had only three A's, a handful of B's, one or two C's, and then all F's from there. When he pointed out to the class that some of the answers were even on the walls around them due to his error, they looked dumbfounded. These kids were going to class every day for a quarter, and hadn't noticed ANYTHING on the walls. I swear they come in, slump down into a chair, and assume a zombie existence. The parents were of course outraged and all over him about how hard he was on the kids, which meant the principal was all over him and made him give all the kids who earned F's, D's so they could pass that quarter. Really? He shouldn't even have to give specific study instructions at that age, practically providing the answers to the students, much less engage in blatant grade inflation/lies, but if he wants to keep his job, he has to do what the administration demands, and he has a family to provide for, so he shuts up and does it. No wonder he's burned out and can't wait to have enough money banked to retire. I will say that it has been better since he has no freshman or sophomore courses now. Since he's in algebra 2 and pre-calc, he has mostly all college bound students and while they are still rather immature and what not, a lot better than when he was teaching life science, biology, and algebra 1.

 

I see it all the time in the homeschool community around here. Only a tiny handful, in a community/county with A LOT of homeschoolers are really academically minded. The general presumption is, "anything we do is better than the PS" and the students have grown up hearing this all the time, and have adopted that smugness. Some of them head off to the good CC about an hour from here and promptly fail out. Totally shocked. They just can't imagine why their paltry effort wasn't good enough because they had always been fed that line before, "anything we do is better than the PS". My local PS is pathetic. The fact that there are homeschoolers who do worse on a daily basis, concerns me greatly, but I am viewed with suspicion for being "too academic" by these parents so do not end up engaging in any significant discussions on academics and college preparedness with them. They view our kids as some sort of rare, subset of super geniuses. No joke. We've heard this before. Sigh...

 

I am always frustrated by the general cultural bent in my area to celebrate mediocrity, underachievement, and down right laziness. I have to hope that my kids are strong enough personalities to not allow this rub off on them.

[8filltheheart]

Ug so frustrating. First dc to start community college didn't do so well. Then again she was an angry freshman. Now, after getting her act together and switching colleges n moving out, she is doing better and it looks like she will probably get good grades. Somewhere in all that next dc started CC. He started better but still didn't get better then Cs. He smart and seems to understand the work, he is just a poor/lazy student. So much for homeschooling! I mean really, he is retaking a class to do better then a C and still getting bad grades! Ug! Really! And he is living at home with us. I have three more. Next two already seem more studious but I'm tempted to just put them all in school.

Do your kids know how to take focused notes and study? It could be that he doesn't know how to filter between key details and less significant info. One of my kids really struggled with that. I had her start outlining the chpts in her textbooks. That really helped her focus in on the key ideas. It also is a great study tool for exams.

 

I have never used them, but many people speak highly of How to be a Superstar Student. Maybe that might be a useful resource.

[JanetC]

Do your kids know how to take focused notes and study?

I have never used them, but many people speak highly of How to be a Superstar Student. Maybe that might be a useful resource.

I think 8fill is on the right track here. The problem is not just "bad grades", the problem is a missing piece of the college student skill set. It could be an academic skill or it could be an emotional/motivational skill, but in any case, you need to figure out what it is and go from there.

 

Look into the resources available at school first. Our CC has a writing lab, math lab, technology lab, chemistry tutoring, etc. As my kids get older, they don't want as much help from mom.

[Teachin'Mine]

IMO the rigor of high school is needed to prepare students, not just homeschoolers, for college.  The more rigorous high school courses are, the better the student will be prepared.  Along with increasing rigor, students need to work towards independent learning, if they're not already there.   This includes being able to follow a syllabus, or lesson plans, meet deadlines, prepare for tests, write papers, prioritize and manage time well, etc..  If mom is still micromanaging and the student can't do well without that, then they likely won't do well in college either.  Obviously there are exceptions and some with LDs need more hands on assistance, but they will likely be getting help in a similar way in college, with the goal being more independence.  But for the other students, being responsible for how they spend their time and for the effort they put into their education is necessary.  Simple tools like an alarm clock, a calendar, weekly (or better yet quarterly/annual) lesson plans, textbooks, lectures (on video if live lectures are not available) from which they can take notes, etc. can make a huge difference.   Each of our students are different, so each will achieve independence at different rates and times, but it should be the goal of a good high school education, whether at home or in a b&m school.

 

For students who are ready academically and otherwise, taking at least a college class or two while sitill in high school is a great way for them to figure out some of the skills needed while still at home.  IMO this should still have the goal of helping the student achieve independence as in the parent shouldn't be "teaching" the material or micromanaging the student's schedule, but can guide the student in accessing the resources available on the college campus.  Students should learn how to choose courses, design a workable schedule, speak with an advisor, contact professors and attend office hours, get help from tutors, attend review sessions, take and re-write class notes as needed, keep up with required readings, use study guides, show up for class prepared, turn in assignments on time, work in groups, participate in study groups, participate in class discussions, etc..  If they are able to learn and apply these skills, they will enter college with more confidence and the skills they'll need to succeed.

[G5052]

I think 8fill is on the right track here. The problem is not just "bad grades", the problem is a missing piece of the college student skill set. It could be an academic skill or it could be an emotional/motivational skill, but in any case, you need to figure out what it is and go from there.

 

Look into the resources available at school first. Our CC has a writing lab, math lab, technology lab, chemistry tutoring, etc. As my kids get older, they don't want as much help from mom.

 

I agree that these things are always complex though. Somehow you have tease it out in these situations.  Being ready for college and wanting to work are two different things, but lacking both of those is of course a big problem.

 

The biggie that I face as an IT professor is that they don't want to follow the directions.  IT is a very precise field, even at lower levels.  And my students are perpetually wanting to do their own thing, which just doesn't work.  If they don't pay attention and get into the habit of not following the directions, they won't pass.  Period.  Even when they file a grievance against me for demanding that the follow the directions...

[Laurel-in-CA]

One of the best things that happened to my ds when he started dual enrollment was to take a study skills class @ the JC. They taught him how to take notes Cornell style. Taught him how to read a syllabus and put relevant dates on his calendar, to plan ahead for projects, use the online tools the school offered, etc. So worth the time & effort, tho' it was only a 1.5 unit class. I will make sure my next 2 coming up do something very similar.

 

Our rule at home is "Full-time and B average or better for benefits." In our case, that grade earns you car insurance coverage and the option to live for free @ home. If child #3 chooses not to go to community college this fall, we'll have to work out some amount for rent as well as car insurance.

[Sunshine State Sue]

One of the best things that happened to my ds when he started dual enrollment was to take a study skills class @ the JC. They taught him how to take notes Cornell style. Taught him how to read a syllabus and put relevant dates on his calendar, to plan ahead for projects, use the online tools the school offered, etc. So worth the time & effort, tho' it was only a 1.5 unit class.

 

:iagree:

Homeschoolers are able to dual enroll for free in 10th-12 grade here.  We are advised by older hs moms to start our students with The College Experience.  It's well worth it.  Sounds similar to the above.

 

This course is designed to strengthen skills essential to success in college, with further applications to post-college plans. Included are study and test-taking strategies; effective interpersonal skills; time management techniques; creative and critical thinking skills; college services and resources; educational policies, procedures, regulations and terminology; and library resources, research strategies, and information skills for online, blended, and traditional learning environments.

[Kathie in VA]

For what is worth, he did take outside classes during high school. The only one he had trouble with was an honors chem class (close to AP level) where he actually was behind in the math needed for the class ... And I was very sick for a few months but he managed to pull a C. Some of the other classes were at a TOG co-op where he seemed to easily do better then the rest of the high school kids that joined. He was able to handle the rhetoric level while others were not. I even stopped the class to view the How to Be A superstar Student videos with the class! All his high school math classes were ouside classes also (mainly for the accountability). He is a smart guy, gets the big picture, makes the connections, has great discussions... However he writes sloppy, takes little notes, is better organized this year then last but this still needs work, and when I try to step in to offer help I get the line "I got this Mom!" <Ug need that head banging pic here> he just started the college's 1/2 semester course on study skills so maybe that will help...but will it help in time?? Dh thinks it was wrong to let him retake Calc 1 as now is is bored and not trying. He did pass it with a C but the advisor thought he should do better since he is tying for engineering. I agreed. It doent help that they don't Collect any of the homework. All the grades are from the tests! It's not his first time at the CC either. He did Dual Enroll his senior year. He averaged high Cs. We talked about paying more attention to due dates...even suggested he put the test dates and due dates on his phone...did he? No. Talked about study habits, note talking, etc. He matured more over the summer so I was expecting better results. I think he was too. Maybe retaking the math was a mistake. He thinks he already knows it and so doesn't do all the problems....and forgets to then go back and check his work with the answers in the back of the book. I told him to go talk with his professor today. Maybe he can retake the last test....even if it won't count the prof needs to know he is serious.

[hornblower]

I'll wade in with a contrary view.

What are his goals? Is he planning to transfer to some program where he needs a certain grade? If his goal is just to 'get the degree' - something which I think is a perfectly fine goal - then just getting passing grades might be perfectly fine.
Nobody looks at your grades once you're out, unless you want to go to grad school or other programs. But even then, there's flex & alternative & if you suddenly get serious & make up some courses & demonstrate that you can get a certain mark, you can get in....

One of my highschool friends went to the same university as I did. There was a whole group of us & there was partying & much goofing off. Some of the group ended up on academic probation. He actually got an academic suspension because his gpa was continuing to tank while on probation. Fast forward a few years. The guy came back, finished his degree, got accepted to a PhD program & now works for the UN in int'l development.

It can take time for kids get to their feet under them and figure out what they're doing and why.

Of course, I'm the person who says to dh every morning "have a good day, don't work too hard! ...just hard enough to not get fired."    (dh actually does put in way more than the basics but I'm a balance in life person - sometimes you put in lots in one area, & other times you coast a bit...)

if he has actually expressed desire to do better & is just not sure how to do it:

I would consider buying & strewing: Cal Newport's How to Win at College & How to be a Straight A Student.
Cal Newport's blog Study Hacks is also excellent: http://calnewport.com/blog/

Also, What Smart Students Know. http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/what-smart-students-know-adam-robinson/1111611129?ean=9780517880852
 

[Teachin'Mine]

If he wants to transfer into engineering, he has to get serious about his studies now.  Yes, they will want to see A grades in his math and physical science courses.  C grades won't get him admitted, unless there is some automatic transfer program with your state colleges which also applies to being accepted into the engineering major.  Homework in calculus classes is rarely graded, but the professors assume it is being done, and if not understood then the student is asking for clarification in class, from the professor in office hours, or from a tutor.  It is the student's responsibility to make sure he understands the material.  I think it was a good idea to retake the class. It doesn't sound like he's bored to me, it just sounds like he doesn't want to do what's needed to excel in the class. Calculus classes build on each other and it's important to have a solid base.  He'll also be using the calculus in his physics classes and in engineering in general.  It's important!. 

 

Can you go with him to visit an engineering school so he can hear all of this from a professor and/or admissions?  Maybe if he realizes what is needed in his CC classes, he'll step up to the plate.  If he gets motivated, but is still unable to meet deadlines and all, then I'd consider some evaluation to see if he needs some extra help.   Your advice for him to speak with his calc professor is good.  Hopefully he'll follow through. 

[Kathie in VA]

Looks like he still has a chance since one grade is dropped. That Leaves him with a C and 3 more tests plus the final. Got him to talk with the prof ..not really sure where that got him. Told him to visit office hours often, maybe get the prof to quiz him even if it doesn't count just to test himself (& to let the prof know he cares and is trying). Don't know if he will though.

 

Still waiting for him to tell his dad. He knows he needs to tell him before he asks but we know it won't go well. As much as I get upset by their bad grades, DH is worse. I have a BS in Computer Science w a math minor and a MS in Computer science. Dh has a BS in aerospace Engineerimg. We know the importance of grades and so should dc ...thus the frustration.

[MarkT]

I'll wade in with a contrary view.

 

What are his goals? Is he planning to transfer to some program where he needs a certain grade? If his goal is just to 'get the degree' - something which I think is a perfectly fine goal - then just getting passing grades might be perfectly fine.

 

 

horrible advice -  companies look at strongly at the college grades before hiring - my company doesn't even consider C students

 

(if you are just taking over your parents business or have another silver spoon then this may be good advice)

[MarkT]

Some of it may be community college "culture."  Seriously.  Sometimes as a professor it bugs me because just a handful care about doing well, and I've seen students buy into this without thinking about the ramifications.  The majority are just getting by, so they do.  Or they don't bother following the directions because hardly anyone is.

 

Case in point.  I gave a midterm last night.  I could not have been more explicit about what was on it.  In fact this is the most explicit I've been in 16 years of teaching.

 

The grades ranged from 35-100.  Three 100's among 20 (the students who listened to me), with a mean of 78.  All of my homeschooled kids, both graduates and dual enrollment, got below 70%.  Afterwards a handful of students was complaining that it covered so many chapters, and it was so hard to study.  Even though I told them EXACTLY which topics and pages to study.  They didn't follow my instructions which were given both in class and in Blackboard.

 

stick to your guns -  you sound like you are more than fair  - they could have missed the class and still found the study info needed

 

it was a midterm - it will have more than one chapter covered - yikes

 

in fact if your CC class is not as hard as the equivalent state U class then you are doing the students a big dis-service IMHO

 

 

[hornblower]

horrible advice - companies look at strongly at the college grades before hiring - my company doesn't even consider C students

 

(if you are just taking over your parents business or have another silver spoon then this may be good advice)

You know, the point of this board is to share info. what might be "bad advice" in your part of the world, isn't somewhere else.

 

My dh used to be involved in hiring for a co he eventually was ceo of...... He didn't look at grades. They did eventually start to confirm graduation because they had a number of applicants claim credentials they didn't have. But they didn't look at grades.

 

So as always, depending on your field, your area and your circumstances, ymmv.

[wendyroo]

Yeah I have never once heard of someone being asked for their college grades.  Just the diploma.  

 

My husband hires engineers for a large company and he always looks at college grades.  I've applied for several teaching and engineering jobs that have requested my college transcript.

 

It is a tough job market, and companies can afford to be very selective about who they hire.

 

Wendy

[FaithManor]

Yeah I have never once heard of someone being asked for their college grades. Just the diploma.

My husband's company, when they hire a straight'out'of college student, asks to see the certified diploma. They do not ask abut grades, but since a few adults have claimed to have a degree they do not actually possess, they have to confirm. They do not ask about grades, but they do require a reference from an internship. No internship, no.chance of hiring. They place much more emphasis on this than any other item on the resume for newbies in the field.

[MarkT]

My husband's company, when they hire a straight'out'of college student, asks to see the certified diploma. They do not ask abut grades, but since a few adults have claimed to have a degree they do not actually possess, they have to confirm. They do not ask about grades, but they do require a reference from an internship. No internship, no.chance of hiring. They place much more emphasis on this than any other item on the resume for newbies in the field.

 

the intern students usually have good grades (unless of course a relative got them the job) so this is indirectly checking those grades

 

[FaithManor]

the intern students usually have good grades (unless of course a relative got them the job) so this is indirectly checking those grades

 

 

This is a regional issue. Many colleges in my area allow students with a C average to have internships. These are not exclusively set aside for only the top students. Some of the degrees require an internship to graduate period. Everyone gets funneled into an internship. Ask me how I know. I am personally aware of four college interns barely maintaining 2.3 ish GPA's. The good news for them is that they are talented at what they do, so this is their opportunity to shine. They struggle with some areas of academia, but are brilliant Java programmers. Thus, they will likely land positions at graduation, despite the grades, because their institutions did not reserve internship opportunities only for the most competitive students.

 

[justasque]

For what is worth, he did take outside classes during high school. The only one he had trouble with was an honors chem class (close to AP level) where he actually was behind in the math needed for the class ... And I was very sick for a few months but he managed to pull a C. Some of the other classes were at a TOG co-op where he seemed to easily do better then the rest of the high school kids that joined. He was able to handle the rhetoric level while others were not. ... All his high school math classes were ouside classes also (mainly for the accountability). He is a smart guy, gets the big picture, makes the connections, has great discussions... However he writes sloppy, takes little notes, is better organized this year then last but this still needs work, and when I try to step in to offer help I get the line "I got this Mom!" <Ug need that head banging pic here> he just started the college's 1/2 semester course on study skills so maybe that will help...but will it help in time?? Dh thinks it was wrong to let him retake Calc 1 as now is is bored and not trying. He did pass it with a C but the advisor thought he should do better since he is tying for engineering. I agreed. It doent help that they don't Collect any of the homework. All the grades are from the tests! .... Maybe retaking the math was a mistake. He thinks he already knows it and so doesn't do all the problems....and forgets to then go back and check his work with the answers in the back of the book. ...

 

So he had trouble with honors Chem because of the math, but he did well in TOG classes - it sounds like he did fine in the liberal arts side of things, but his STEM skills are not where they should be for engineering?  It can be difficult to find truly challenging high school level STEM classes for homeschoolers, and enough students working at that level to fill them.

 

It is completely normal for college math class grades to be based solely on test scores.  Many of his engineering classes will be like this.  The only way to survive such classes is to do the homework when it is assigned, and come to the next class prepared with any questions you may have about it.  Have you considered a tutor, who can sit with him while he does the work and help him to find out what kinds of mistakes he's been making and how to avoid them?  (That is, does he understand the material but make mistakes in the process - dropping negatives, etc. - or does he have misconceptions about the material.  A good tutor can address both of these issues.)

 

If he wants to transfer into engineering, he has to get serious about his studies now.  

 

This.  He absolutely should be retaking the calc.  Calc isn't just a box to be checked for engineering students.  It's a foundational skill they need for many of their upper level classes.   They will be expected to know the material, and there will be no sympathy or accommodations for those who haven't learned it.  A "C" simply isn't good enough and will make understanding everything down the line harder.  Doing the homework - every last problem, each one ideally done twice - once when assigned and once again to study for the exams - is critical.  Is your son actually interested in engineering specifically?  It's a *tough* course of study, and a student who isn't really sure why they're doing it - what they want out of it in the long run - can easily lack the motivation to stick it out for the four or five years it will take to graduate.

 

We know the importance of grades and so should dc ...thus the frustration.

It might help for your dc to hear from *others* why good grades are worth the effort.  Tour colleges, speak to financial aid admins about qualifications for merit scholarships, speak to the engineering departments, talk to friends who are in engineering positions about what they are looking for in the people they hire.  While there may be paths open to those with poor grades, many other paths will be closed to them.  At the same time, focusing on grades can miss the big picture.  Make sure he understands that the grades are merely a shorthand way to communicate to others how well he knows the material.  Knowing the material is the true goal - and if he learns the material inside out and backwards, good grades should follow.

[Tree Frog]

I think what you are seeing is par for the course. If the high school experience didn't included having to work to earn a grade, then its a big adjustment to do so in college. My kids went to public high school. Nonhonors classes are 1/3 subjectively graded on class participation....in otherwords to earn a 90 you 've go to get the teacher to like you enough to call on you. When they get to college, they find the charm they've learned to use is useless and they have to actually earn the grade with just test results. And no one reviews the day or just tests the big ideas. It is a huge adjustment to being tested over the details and studying for not just a unit test, but midterms and finals. One of the DE teachers here tells the high schoolers that 'a high school 100 is a college 70'...and it takes a while to sink in. And then the gpa calc. A C- does not get you a 2.0. In my area, high school grades are numericala nd it's easy to carry a 95 average. Adjusting to letter for the first time in college takes some adjustment. And a 95 isn't a 4.0.

The bolded is what my dd is experiencing in her first semester of college. She studied in ps high school honors/AP courses, but she said the hardest adjustment has been all the additional studying for fewer grades in each class. She has one class that grades only on the 4 tests in the semester. If she doesn't do well on any one of the tests, it significantly hurts her grade, whereas in high school, if she bombed a test, she would have the opportunity to bring her grade up via extra credit. (Although we've found that the grades somehow always come up at the end of the grading term regardless of the effort of the student.)

[angela in ohio]

It is completely normal for college math class grades to be based solely on test scores.  Many of his engineering classes will be like this.  The only way to survive such classes is to do the homework when it is assigned, and come to the next class prepared with any questions you may have about it.  Have you considered a tutor, who can sit with him while he does the work and help him to find out what kinds of mistakes he's been making and how to avoid them?  (That is, does he understand the material but make mistakes in the process - dropping negatives, etc. - or does he have misconceptions about the material.  A good tutor can address both of these issues.)

 

Yes, all of my dc's college grades are based on tests, projects, and/or papers. There needs to be a transition for students so they are prepared for this. Many college courses have grades based on three or four tests and maybe one paper. Students have to learn to read, study, and complete homework even if no one is assigning it or checking on them.

 

I have helped several homeschoolers lately who were not prepared for the transition to college. They weren't used to taking timed tests that counted toward a grade or to following someone else's schedule with no slack.

 

Not that it is just homeschoolers struggling. My dd is a college freshman who we transitioned carefully to CC classes and online courses and then into college. She is helping students who took full slates of AP courses (and are incredibly smart and interesting because of it, she says) who never learned to plan out the course work load themselves, though, because a teacher always told them what was due the next day. I had started dd on this process her 8th grade year so that she could practice it throughout high school.

[angela in ohio]

1. Does he have a long term plan?  Have you talked to at least on university that he can finish his degree at, mapping out what he needs to do at the CC in order to join and succeed in their engineering program? I have found that a lot of homeschoolers start at the CC and figure they will go from there, but the students need more than that. They need to know WHY they are doing all that hard work. He should have a clear path written out and minimum grades in mind.

 

2. Does he have inspiration? Why does he want to be an engineer? Does he have a drive to do it, or at least for job security and potential income? See if he can meet engineers who can inspire him. Or join organizations on campus (SWE, for example) where he can meet other like-minded students.

 

3. Does he have the skills? He sounds like he needs help with honing his attention to detail, test study skills, etc. Is that something you can sit with him and teach? Even a study skills course doesn't always do it for each student's needs.

 

4. Does he have a safety net? He should have an identified person who he can go to for tutoring help in each course. Often for writing and math, there is a campus tutoring center. If not, there might be a friend who is good at the subject, or someone from his class who would be willing to study together.

 

It's funny. I am helping a young man who is dear to me through a pretty similar situation. His transition from homeschooling to community-college-intending-to-be-an-engineer has been bumpy. Some of it is just that 18-20 year old young men are.... interesting. My dd is his designated math tutor, and I work with him in writing humanities papers and just prodding him in general. A lot of times the issue isn't in the work, which he can handle, but in knowing what to do next and then what to do after that. And a lot of times lack of motivation is the issue. :( Anyway, that list is what has worked with him.

 

I wouldn't put the other dc in school. I don't think that is a magic answer. I do think that homeschooling has limitations, like an other choice, and that we need to be aware of those and work to mitigate them. One of them is that the transition to "outside school" can be rough.  But what you have learned with your older two should help with the other three.