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AAR, dyslexia, and phonograms


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I used AAR after school with DS. We skimmed through a lot of level 1 as it was going too slow to keep him up to standards with school last year. So we would do a short intro to the lesson, usually do a game, skip the fluency reading but work on the book reading. I then taught a bunch of level 2 phonics rules to him quickly to get his reading up to speed.

Now with a diagnosis I want to do it properly. DS still reverses b and d sounds, and occasionally will use other "advanced" vowel sounds when sounding out instead of short sounds. Should I start over and slower? Just work daily on b/d? Switch programs? Fwiw DS's phonemic skills are good per testing for his age but he does need them to be taught.

I think DS tolerates and is okay with AAR. Especially this year when I've gone much slower in instruction and remediation and we took our time. I was considering going through all the phonogram cards just to make sure he knows them. And then focus one week on b in addition until he got it? I also skipped open/closed consonants so we are going back to cover those thoroughly before doing level 2 for real.

 

Thoughts?

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You definitely need the open/closed syllable rules because they are a huge tip off for which vowel sound to recall and are especially helpful for dyslexics who struggle with getting the right vowel sound. And yes, slow down until you get fluency with short vowel sounds. You really can't layer additional info until those short vowel sounds are automatic.

 

Does he reverse b and d sounds or he sees b and says the d sound? That is a visual confusion that should clear up with some targeted work. Barton has the absolute best info that I've ever found for that substitution. I'd see if you can borrow a Barton manual just for the B/D confusion. I think it is level 1? Someone help me out here...

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You definitely need the open/closed syllable rules because they are a huge tip off for which vowel sound to recall and are especially helpful for dyslexics who struggle with getting the right vowel sound. Does he reverse b and d sounds or he sees b and says the d sound? That is a visual confusion that should clear up with some targeted work. Barton has the absolute best info that I've ever found for that substitution. I'd see if you can borrow a Barton manual just for the B/D confusion. I think it is level 1? Someone help me out here...

He sees b and says /d/, sees d and says /b/. Writing is reversed with a ton of letters too. Occasionally when sounding out dad or bed or other words he will sound them out incorrectly but say the right word: dad will sound out as /b/ /a/ /d/= dad or any combo.

 

I'm also considering just doing Barton but the demo video looked good but a little boring? I liked how many examples she did. I am hoping with DS's strong phonetic skills we can use AAR, plus he likes the little games. Then I read a post about how Spalding is especially good for dysgraphia so then I started to wonder again.

 

ETA - I am planning on doing sand writing and more things like that even with reading.

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It sounds like AAR is working out for you guys right now.  That is what it sounds like to me, anyway. 

 

I really like the Abecedarian error correction guide/video for modelling what to do after a mistake.  With this -- you would point at the d in dad and say "d." Basically.  Point at the vowel, say the correct sound.  If there is a rule, plan to review the rule and do some examples of the rule.  My son did good with word sorts later on -- there are some words, and you go through and decide which way to say the vowel, and why, and take some time to look at them.  Not just "read it now." 

 

I would at least go through the phonograms to see how many he remembers (if this is not too frustrating).  If he does fine with flashcards.  If there is a phonogram and he doesn't know the sound, it needs review. 

 

I do not know, in AAR, if you do multiple vowel sounds from the beginning when doing phonogram vowel cards, or if you start with short sound, get solid on that, and then add.  I think you could choose to say -- we are just going to work on the short sounds (or "this sound" and say it -- though if he does good with you saying "short" and "long" then I would say it) for a while.  Then add a new sound.  I think you will see -- if he needs more practice, or if he is just extremely confused.  If he needs more practice -- you can practice.  If he seems extremely confused, that is more of a time to stay dropped back.  If you build words with tiles, and show him, and ask him to build words, etc, and he seems like he is getting it, he is just making some mistakes -- that is okay, he can practice more.  I think.  If he seems like "what is going on" then it is not the right program right now.  Imo.  If he is acting like he is very frustrated, then that is another clue.  If he seems like he enjoys the mom time, that is a good sign.  If he already likes AAR and you are familiar with the program and how you do it -- that counts for a huge amount, too. 

 

 

The solider he is, the easier time he will have going forward, it will be less taxing to him if he has some things down and doesn't have to think too much about them.  But -- at the same time, I think you can move forward, too.  You need to both feel like there is progress, and don't want to get bored.  Do you think there are standards in  AAR for when to move forward in lessons?  They may be in the book or on the website.  If not -- I used to go on the forum for them when I used AAS, and people were helpful with that kind of advice.  I mean, here, too, but that board will be packed with AAR users. 

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I would go back to the fluency sheets. The more he practices reading b and d the better. My girls are dyslexic as well and we have modified AAR to work for us. We also added in Read Write Type as recommended by our NP. It was great to come in behind teaching, it backed up and retaught the phonics we had already covered. Consider it. It was great for us. It also ended up passing where we were in AAR and introducing new concepts. By the time we made it in AAR, it wasn't new and things just clicked much more quickly.

 

eta: sorry, I meant to put for the LONGEST TIME I had to draw the "bed" on top of the fluency pages. It really helped my girls remember if it was b or d. They still had to visualize the image if I hadn't written it on top but it worked for them. Eventually. It was a long road. They still have slip ups every now and then but catch themselves.

 

http://www.emphatic.com/bobg/bed-deb.jpg

I drew it similar to this with a smiling stick man on top, nothing as fancy as that!

 

etaa: also, open closed syllable is SUPER IMPORTANT and is needed for further levels and AAS levels. AAS has really rounded out our lessons now as well. We have picked up a nice pace of progress. It is a hard road teaching these babes to read but it is so rewarding to see the progress. Hang in there!

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I have seen "bed" posters, too.  They are cute.  I just googled "bed poster for b and d" and there was one with the word bed written along a bed, kind-of like ones I have seen.  Very readable.  I like it.  You can also make an "okay" sign with your hands, and say the word bed with that.  Did not work as well for my son, but I think it is a cute idea. 

 

Definitely let there be reminders!  It helps kids learn.  You can write them on the page, or put them on a page you keep out for reference, or write it and tape it on the wall, etc.  It is more independent than just being told all the time.  But if he needs to be told -- tell him.  But if you are going from "most help" to "least help" then something he can look at on his own, is good b/c it is less help.  If he can realize he needs to look on his own, that is better than just making the mistake, or only being able to find out by asking or guessing. 

 

I think it is something where the sand writing might *really* help, too.  I hope so :) 

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AAR may work out for you.  Since you already have it you might just try going back and doing the program in a more thorough manner.

 

I will say that Barton does cover b and d reversal pretty effectively, at least for my kids.  They both had those issues, along with other reversals and Barton definitely did a good job with that and closed vs. open syllables.  Barton cleared reversals up almost completely and the kids did really well with identifying closed and open syllables after finishing those Levels (2 & 3).  Now there might be a glitch once in a rare blue moon but they usually recognize they made the mistake and correct it themselves.  

 

As for the boring Barton video, bless Susan Barton, she is incredibly nice and I really feel that her program was a huge help to us...but her videos to train tutors are really, really, really boring.  But they work.  I take a walk and drink some coffee to get pumped before watching one but I definitely watch them.  They have been a huge help, along with the TM.  And the TM is brilliantly done.

 

One thing that has been a big hit here are the Spelling Success game cards someone created to go with Barton.  I don't think there are any for Level 1 but there are definitely cards for Level 2 and up.  They are great for reinforcement and for making lessons more fun.  The kids pull them out to play with each other on days that we don't have time for a longer lesson or on days when a lesson just doesn't work out.  

 

DD started actually looking forward to her Barton lessons, by the way.  Once she got used to the system and realized that it really and truly was helping her, she wanted to do the lessons.  I just had to keep them relatively short.  30-45 minutes daily has been about all she can handle.  Worked out fine, though, since I can do the lessons with her every day, even weekends when necessary.

 

Just a suggestion, if there is any way you could maybe borrow/rent Level 1 and Level 2 of Barton, your child might be able to get through both in about 2 months, maybe a lot less (DS completed Level 1 in a week but DD took longer).  It really depends on the child and what all their underlying challenges and strengths are.  DD took longer than 2 months to complete both.  DS completed both in a shorter time frame.  Level 3 is more intense so it would take longer.  I would buy that one if you decided to stay with the program.  The first three levels were such a HUGE help here.  And your child might be able to finish all three in just a few months.  At that point you could decide if you really wanted to keep moving forward, or move to something else.

 

Anyway, whatever you decide, I wish you and your child the best.  I know it is hard to be sure which path to take.  Just keep in mind that he is very young and you are a lot further along in getting helpful answers than many people on this board were when their kids were this age.  You have time. If something isn't working there is definitely time to tweak or change things.  Hugs.

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Barton fixed this for my son and the boy I tutor. I do not like the BeD method because it has been my experience that kids with dyslexia have a hard time remembering right from left and get confused. The balloons/pigs method with Barton worked much better. 

Ohh for the Barton videos...I have a friend that plays solitaire while she watches them. I like to take the laptop around the house with me and clean while I watch them. I am not above scrubbing a tub while watching a Barton video on a laptop sitting on the commode.

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Barton fixed this for my son and the boy I tutor. I do not like the BeD method because it has been my experience that kids with dyslexia have a hard time remembering right from left and get confused. The balloons/pigs method with Barton worked much better. 

Ohh for the Barton videos...I have a friend that plays solitaire while she watches them. I like to take the laptop around the house with me and clean while I watch them. I am not above scrubbing a tub while watching a Barton video on a laptop sitting on the commode.

:lol:

 

If only she would have at least picked a more colorful blouse to look at or, I don't know....just something.  

 

At least, if I can stay awake, I definitely learn something and the lessons go much smoother when I actually use them for my own training ahead of time.  But yes, I usually have to be doing something else while I watch.  :)

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How does the teaching DVD translate to teaching DS? I'm not great at inventing games or anything so if she doesn't have great ideas to make the program fun or interactive while I teach it may not work for us. Also, how long are the videos for each lesson? And, also, her website says it takes 3-5 months for each unit in the upper levels 3+. Really? It looked like there were only about 15 lessons per unit. I feel like there's a disconnect for me.

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Video lessons vary in length.  Maybe 30 minutes in the lower level?  45?  Sorry.  I don't remember clearly.  The videos teach you how to properly do the lessons.  There are valid reasons for the hand gestures and other things that start in Level 1.  Some things may seem silly but are a HUGE help in Level 2 and beyond.  The videos are soooo helpful for helping you learn how to teach this program.  

 

And you don't have to invent games.  There are games explained in the TMs and there are games you can purchase to play with the kids that actually come with explicit instructions.  In fact, the Spelling Success cards also have companion videos to show a game being played.  You don't have to create your own at all (thank goodness or I would have been in real trouble :)).

 

As for the length of the lessons that is really dependent on the child.  The lessons are not short, though, in the upper levels.  Each "lesson" has multiple parts.  Those parts are labeled by letter and the subsegments of each lesson go all the way to letter Q in the higher levels (at least through 4).  Sometimes a lesson goes really smoothly and we will complete the entire lesson in 3-4 days.  At other times it is a challenging lesson and the kids struggle a bit.  We do not move on.  We go slowly until it is internalized.  That might take even a couple of weeks or more for that one lesson.  Each lesson is actually several lessons under one umbrella topic, and each of those umbrella topics is organized by an even larger topic which is how the levels are divided. 

 

Let me see if I can find the post where I explain Barton a bit better...I don't think I am doing a very good job...sorry...

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O.k. these are posts I extracted from another thread from several months ago.  The thread was several pages long so I tried to just grab three posts that I thought might be relevant.  In re-reading them, though, I realize that the last post (#3) may be the most helpful.   HTH...

 

#1

Posted 14 November 2013 - 04:27 PM

Agree with Merry gardens.  I know that if you have seen success with whole word learning, it would seem counter productive to go back to sounding out.  I thought it was, too and for some kids it probably is.  I don't know about your child.  I can only go by what I have seen with my kids and my relatives who have reading issues.  My kids hated sounding out, too. Why?  Because this was not a skill that was processing efficiently in their brains or came naturally at all.  They were learning to read through whole word at school but it wasn't efficient either and could be quite painful at times.  My son, especially, was compensating, but they both were missing the most basic components of learning to read, the sounds involved with each letter and how those sounds go together to form words.  They could "read" but they couldn't "read", and learning to recognize each individual word, be able to read it fluently, decode it quickly etc. was taking an enormous amount of time and effort and they were NOT learning the way their brain needed to learn to read.  They were both very articulate so sound association was not something ANYONE thought might be an issue and yet that is exactly what a large part of the problem really was.

 

Barton is not for every dyslexic and OG instruction is not necessary for every child learning to read.  I learned through whole word recognition and was reading voraciously at an early age.  However, having now done the early levels of Barton, things that I was grasping subconsciously I now finally UNDERSTAND.  I actually wish someone had done this for me when I was younger, although I almost certainly could have moved through it much faster than my kids are since I am not dyslexic.  

 

When I started Level 1 of Barton, I will admit i was disappointed and thought we had wasted our money.  It seemed SO basic and almost silly going back to just sounds, not even sound letter association, especially for my older child who was already in 6th grade at that point.  However, once we started and I committed to following the recommendations and script, changes began pretty quickly.  Over the past year I have watched the transformation in understanding of sounds and words and language with my kids and it has been amazing.  

 

Are they reading at grade level fluently and easily yet?  Nope.  But we are a LOT closer than we were.  The areas we have already covered are now finally coming fluently and when they do stumble they have processes in place to get through a lot of it for both spelling and reading without needing my help.  They are far more confident and finally understand WHY sometimes the boring systematic approach is the right way to go.

 

Do I think Barton is for everyone?  No.  Every child is different, every situation is different and one size does not fit all.  But what I have learned over and over while homeschooling my kids with learning differences is that sometimes going way, way back to the very, very basics is the best way to finally fix all the little pieces that have never truly come together smoothly.  It has worked amazingly well with reading, spelling, grammar, and (thanks to recommendations from so many wonderful people here at the Hive) finally Math as well.  

 

Barton, and other programs like hers, don't just teach sounding out expecting that to be the way to learn to read.  They teach sounding out in a systematic, structured approach that goes way back to the very basics of learning sounds and associating letters with sounds because, for many, that process is NOT automatic, is NOT comfortable or easy, when applied to reading, but with explicit, careful, systematic instruction It CAN become automatic for many who have reading process differences.  LiPS just takes that process even further back than Barton, for those that need it.  

 

Both of my kids were always articulate.  It never occurred to me that sound association was part of the issue with reading (especially with my son).  Turns out that was a huge part of the issue.  For them, whole language recognition was the far more inefficient path to take, even though they were more comfortable trying to read that way than sounding out....Now, they have the scaffolding in place to sound out correctly when necessary but are also able to read the words in areas they have already been taught, and read them fluently.

 

Is Barton, or another program like it, what you need?  Maybe, maybe not.  Is LiPS what you need even before Barton, or in place of Barton?  Maybe, maybe not.  I just know that I had a lot of misunderstanding about both of those programs before using them, and even right after we started using them.  After using them, though, I found that they were EXTREMELY helpful for our situation and continue to be so.  I hope you find what works for yours.  Big hugs of support!  

 

#2

Posted 15 November 2013 - 03:48 PM

OhElizabeth, on 15 Nov 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:snapback.png

 

Everybody has an opinion on whether something is within the realm of normal for your kid, your family's genes, whatever.  Some of this stuff with phonemic awareness is less clear to me, like what would be the norm with a NT dc of the same age.  Would a newly 5 yo do well on the Barton pre-test?  If the average NT newly 5 yo would be fine with it, even through section C, then yes I should be plunging forward.  Maybe I could call Barton today and just chat with her about it?  Hmm...  I've never called or bothered her, but I've heard she takes questions.

 

Just saw this thread. I would encourage you to call her. I think she typically says a child needs to be at least 5 and half-way through kindergarten before starting the program. I'm not sure what she would say about the screening with him just turning 5. Please keep in mind (not just you, but others who read these boards) that the screening simply tells you whether a child is ready for the Barton program. You can't take the screening and decide, based on the results, whether your child is dyslexic. I just wanted to add that because sometimes it seems like people might be thinking that (again, not you, but others on these boards who may be reading this).

 

Also regarding the whole word vs. sounding out debate. My opinion is that if your child can read a complex word without any clues whatsoever, then don't sweat it. The problem is, people think they don't have clues, but they often do. The only way to really test this is to put a very random word (nonsense words are the true test) on a single blank piece of paper and have them read it. Something like "economics." If they get it right, great. A lot of dyslexics will say things like "economy" because they are guessing at parts of the word. Same with "communities." They might say "community" or "countries" because the words start with the same letters, have a lot of the same letters, etc.

 

And while I'm at it, I hear lots of folks say their child can read fine, but when they listen to them read aloud, it's choppy, slow, they leave off suffixes, miss words, and generally get words wrong. My guess is that these kids are testing ok on comprehension, which is why their parent thinks they can read ok. But really, that oral reading is key to truly understanding if your child can read well. Many, if not most, dyslexics can test ok on comprehension because they are smart and very adept at using all sorts of clues to figure out the meaning of the passage. I just mention this because poor out-loud reading should be a very big red flag that a child is not truly reading well, even though they may be able to comprehend what they read. Later on in their education, when they are reading very complex words with far fewer clues, they will likely start suffering the consequences of this type of "reading."

 

And if your child is one of these poor "out-loud readers" (again, not you OhE, but people on these boards), I would advise you to limit the times you have them read aloud to you until you have found a good program for remediation. I say this because if you force them to read and they are not very good at it and don't have the tools to decode, you also force them to guess at words, which is a very bad habit and extremely hard to break. Wait until they are solid on skills (using a quality program) and then let them read out loud to you.

 

Good luck!  :)

 
 
#3

Posted 16 November 2013 - 10:37 PM

OhElizabeth, on 16 Nov 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:snapback.png

Ok, now I'm curious.  How do you know when the student IS ready to move on?  What is it you're looking for?

If they can read, orally spell and write words that use that rule without having to refer back to the rule then you can move on.  I know this may seem confusing.  When i first started it took a while to wrap my brain around this system, although I know others who think this just seems intuitive and get irritated at the TM and the DVDs.  I found them absolutely necessary for me to understand this system.  Once I did, though, and actually followed what Susan Barton says to do, and insisted that the kids follow the system even when some stuff seemed silly, things really moved much more smoothly and the kids and I both were much happier.  I will try to explain a bit about it so that this makes more sense.

 

  1. Each level has a lesson for each rule or concept being taught for that level, as well as built in review of prior concepts/rules.  
  2. There are usually between 10 and 14 lessons in each level after Level 2.  
  3. Each lesson is broken into parts (usually A-Q) and each part is a different way of approaching that rule/concept.  
  4. The student does some work orally, some with tiles, some is written in isolation, some is written in phrases, some is written in sentences, some is reading individual words, some is off of lists of words, some is reading in phrases, some is reading in sentences, and some is in reading passages, etc.  
  5. If the student is going through a part and does not seem to be grasping the rule as presented in that part, the TM has additional words/sentences/tile activities that can be used for additional exposure or additional review of that component.  
  6. Throughout the various parts of that lesson (and lessons can take just a couple of hours, or days or even a couple of weeks or more to complete, depending on the student and the lesson) the student is exposed to saying, reading, spelling orally and writing words that include the new concept as well as previous concepts/rules.  If, by the end of the lesson, the child is NOT fluently reading/writing the words (nonsense AND real words) in that lesson, then you repeat the lesson with additional words that follow that rule/concept until reading/writing IS fluent for that rule as well as prior rules.
  7. Grammar, punctuation and sight words are also addressed, but very gently in the early levels.
  8. This program is supposed to replace ALL other Language Arts programs for the student until after Level 4, at which point a formal writing program that is separate from Barton can be used (she recommends IEW but you can use many others).  
  9. At the beginning of each new lesson you do an extra practice page of activities that reflect understanding of the previous lesson.  There are tons of extra practice pages and games available on the Barton site if the ones in the packet aren't enough.
  10. There are many companies now that provide additional components if needed for things like card games, board games, readers, etc. that support the levels of Barton and can be used to liven up the lesson, do additional review, help solidify concepts, etc.  Some are free, some cost a little money and some cost a lot.  
  11. At the end of each Level you have the option to give a Post Test to confirm they have internalized the rules for that level.  If they don't do well in certain parts, it is clear which part they need review and you just go back and review that particular section, not the whole level again.

I hope that answers your question.  Sorry this is so long.  You probably wanted a quick answer and I gave you a tome.   :)  

 

 

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Honestly b/d in reading has not been a problem for my son.  So maybe some easy little thing worked for him on that, but is not really as good.  I know how things can go like that. 

You know, this had me thinking today.  I used to get b and d confused as a kid and I never had any sort of label.  Reading was a breeze for me.  So was writing. But my brother, who was 2e, very gifted and had a laundry list of issues including what would now be called severe dysgraphia never had problems with b and d.  I wonder why some do and some don't?

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DS still reverses b and d sounds, and occasionally will use other "advanced" vowel sounds when sounding out instead of short sounds. Should I start over and slower? Just work daily on b/d? 

 

Thoughts?

 

I use the method I describe here, one I borrowed from Spalding: Telling b from d

 

It's easy to explain and I've found that nearly every child I've worked with who had b/d confusion would get over it quickly, to the point where after a few sessions I wouldn't notice it any longer. Also, it works both ways, reading and writing, provided you teach your child to print the letters b and d the way described there (b: line first, d: circle first).

 

You also mentioned open and closed syllables and using other vowel sounds instead of short sounds. I teach the child to first try the First Vowel Sound, hence it's name, rather than calling it a short sound, and then try the Second Vowel Sound  (the long sound), and then try the Third Vowel Sound, when decoding an unfamiliar word. The method renders open/closed syllable irrelevant and instills in its place a systematic way to decode any unfamiliar word. It also firmly establishes the vowel sound options in a child's mind because he's continually thinking /a/ae/o/ for "a", /e/ee/ for "e", /i/ie/ee/ for "i", etc.

 

Here's the process and the exercise I use to teach the First Vowel Sounds (short sounds): What Are Vowel Sounds?

 

And here's the description of the entire multisyllable method that I teach, one that I've found works exceptionally well. (All of the materials are included as well.): OnTrack Reading Multisyllable Method

 

I wouldn't expect you to drop what you're using and switch to the multisyllable method I use, but you'll find the b/d page very useful I think, and you'll probably find the vowel sound discussion and exercise interesting as well.

 

Rod Everson

OnTrack Reading

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We used bomber/python to make the Barton method more boy friendly, but yes, it worked almost immediately for ds. Some kids need everything important to be 3D or physical and physically creating the letters and checking them worked for both my boys.

Um... What is the bomber/python method? I'll try to google it but I have a feeling the results will be about snakes. And bomber planes.

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