Elisabet1 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 My daughter started in on me recently that she is worth more than minimum wage. I have been dumbfounded over it, but ticked. I have told her "NO you are not! You are unskilled, uneducated, working in a part-time minimum wage job. Feel lucky you HAVE a job!" and this conversation has repeated. A bit clueless on where this is all coming from, as she has always done tons of volunteer work and had been thrilled to get this job. Move forward to this weekend...boyfriend visits. This boyfriend has seemed like a great guy. He is polite and respectful and good to the other kids. He was home schooled all the way through school. But there was a red flag early on. He has never had a job, ever. He has never done volunteer work. When my daughter tried to talk to him about getting a job, he said something about his resume. Realize, no college, no skills, nothing. He graduated high school (home school) and spent two years doing nothing. He actually did study a ton during this time with college textbooks so he is quite smart, book wise. But he has never worked. I felt that was a huge red flag. I asked my daughter if she resents that she is off at work, over the summer, she worked two jobs, while he sits at home waiting for her to be available. She admits, this bothers her. I asked how she will feel the next summer if he fails to go to work again and she is the only one working. They are talking marriage and she is the only one with saved money to put toward the wedding and marriage and all. She said she would be ticked. She has even been planning a wedding, but then came to me and said she was bothered that she is the only one paying for this wedding and he has nothing to contribute. Moved on from that... She is still madly in love, but I am suspecting part of that is boredom. She seems to think she is really in love, but she has no interest in being the sole financial provider here, while he relaxes. So he is here this weekend. He proceeds to tell me that she is worth more than minimum wage. He says she should not have to work in that job. He brings up my helping her find a job that pays better. Again, I brought up, she is unskilled, working part-time, at a movie theater. She needs this money for college. All her bills are paid right now, so she is very lucky. All this continues on with him arguing that she is worth more. And that really, she is too good for this job. I finally realize where her bad attitude is suddenly coming from about her job. Until a month or two ago, she loved her job. She was thrilled to have it, felt lucky to have it, and was working hard. Now, she has been slacking off and complaining to the point of crying sometimes, that she is not paid well enough and the work is too stressful. Not happy about this. I have had a big ole talk with her about this this morning. She headed off to work and I am hoping when she comes home, I am hearing her thoughts on it that she realizes how this attitude and such is not a good thing at all. I want to add that I asked her how she will feel if next summer, she is working again while he is sitting around being too good for her job or her wages. She said that will make her angry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrairieSong Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Isn't a minimum wage job better than earning $0/hour not working? Everyone has to start somewhere. I worked minimum wage jobs as a teen and so have my kids. Maybe you could turn it around and ask your daughter and/or her boyfriend how much they would want to pay an unskilled, new employee if they were the owner of the business, such as a movie theater. It is not exactly a highly skilled job. You sell movie tickets and concessions and clean up after the movie goers. If she wants a better paying job, she needs more experience, more education, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotherGoose Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Oh my I hope she comes to her senses and runs far far away! If she marries him she'll be working and he'll be sitting at home watching TV. I have heard this sentiment. If you are uneducated, with no skills, then you ARE worth minimum wage. When you become worth more than minimum wage, you'll know it because someone will hire you at a job that pays more than minimum wage, after you go out and look for the job (don't expect the employer to come looking for YOU, you have to look for the employer). I learned several things during my time working for minimum wage: I'm not too good to do any sort of work that's necessary to earn money (scrub toilets, flip burgers, etc.), I don't want to do that sort of work forever, and the only way to get somewhere better is to work hard at whatever my task is today. DH does very well today, but when he started working, as a college graduate, he had to dig ditches as part of his job, and work his way up. He no longer has to dig ditches, but he doesn't feel like he's too good to do it if the need arises (he's in a construction-related industry) and someone needs some help. Oh and DH complains about people with these sorts of attitudes (usually after he's fired them for general laziness and whining.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny in Florida Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 A quick review of the concept of supply and demand might be in order. She's "worth" what someone will pay her. Right now, that's minimum wage. If she takes this job as an opportunity to prove she is wroth more, then maybe she will be paid more soon. And, yeah, the guy sounds like a real "winner." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 If she is indeed worth more than minimum wage, then it is up to her to prove it to an employer. Simple as that. Find out what it would take to become an assistant manager at the theater and then aim for a promotion, etc., etc. If I got grumbling from one of my kids that he/she was worth more than minimum wage, I'd turn it around and ask what steps said child was taking to prove that he/she is worth a higher wage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 He sounds like serious trouble. Any idea when he is going to consider getting a job himself? I do remember once when my much younger sister said she was going to make a big bill for something because "she deserves it." She was still a student at the time. I do not understand what "deserves" means to the younger generations these days. I'm sure that your daughter will get an above-minimum-wage job as a positive step up from what she is doing now. At that time she will have to make the move and let another person have her minimum-wage job. Because selling tickets is gonna be a minimum wage job no matter who works it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twigs Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I agree with her. She is worth more than minimum wage. However … Her skills, education, and experience are not worth more. It takes time to get what you need to make more money. I hope she comes to her senses soon about the boy. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danestress Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I would not engage in that discussion at all. Of course she is worth more than minimum wage to you - she is worth an entire universe to you. But what she can manage to get paid is a matter of supply and demand. There may well be jobs that would pay more and that she could do. Is she willing to do those jobs? Will they accommodate her schedule? I would tell her that if she isn't happy with her job and pay, she should look for another job, but that she should have a firm offer before she quits her current job. Let her find out for herself what jobs are really available and what she is qualified for and what THEY think her labor is worth. What is the worst thing that would happen if you agreed with her that she is capable of more than what she is doing and asked her what she plans to do about it? If you are clear about what you are willing to provide and not provide and she knows that the is responsible for certain expenses (part of tuition, books, clothes, cell phone, car insurance ... whatever) then she can proceed as she sees fit, knowing those expenses do have to be covered by whatever job she can get. As for the boyfriend, I would be worried about that too. How does he meet his current expenses? Does he live with his parents? If she marries him, will she be living with his parents? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Oh boy. The obvious question to ask him is this: so WHO is supposed to work minimum wage? Which of your friends, peers, neighbours is the right person for that job? And the follow up q's: What makes you better than them? Why are employers not seeing this?I am predisposed to kick to the curb anyone who talks a lot without doing anything. You don't like this? What are you doing about it? What groups have you joined? Which organizations are you helping mobilize to lobby and change things? How many doors have you knocked on, on behalf of a political candidate who is making this part of their platform? What? Nothing? You just like to sit & bitch about it? Sayonara.There are interesting social justice & poverty issues to discuss around minimum wage.for instance: "Adjusted for inflation, the federal minimum wage peaked in 1968 at $8.56 (in 2012 dollars). Since it was last raised in 2009, to the current $7.25/hour, the federal minimum has lost about 5.8% of its purchasing power to inflation."http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/12/04/5-facts-about-the-minimum-wage/This boy sounds like he's infecting her with an aggrieved attitude of entitlement. I hope he's just a phase for your dd... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 The proof that she is worth more is when she gets a job and is paid more. Some jobs only pay low wages. You could apply for such a job and argue that you are worth more because you have a Master's degree or you have so many certifications. However, if the requirement of the jobs do not include certifications or degrees, then you will not be paid more. If you have no degree, no certifications, no skills where is the logic in arguing to be paid more. What are you bringing to the employer that shows he should compensate you more. Does your personality bring in more customers. Do you have an extra calming effect at children's bd parties so you can keep the parents (patrons) happy. Are you able to ring up sales faster than any other associate, thus getting more customers in and out of the store. These are skills that may not fall into perfect categories like certifications, but they are quantifiable. Perhaps after being in an "unskilled" job for some time you would be able to show your boss why it would be reasonable to get a raise. Until then you have nothing. There is an amazing sense of entitlement in some early 20s. Not all, but certainly some. The boyfriend is missing adulthood milestones. First job. Moving up in first job or finding a new better job. Managing income. Independent living (probably sharing a group house, but it's a start) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFG Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Why does dd need to wait until next summer to figure out he is bone lazy? If he is not working and not in school, what IS he doing? I would have been tempted to tell him, "Yes, dd may be getting to the point where she is worth more than minimum wage. But you certainly haven't." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scootiepie Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 How old is he and how is he supporting himself? He sounds lazy and entitled. If that's the reason he's not working, that would bother me A LOT. Learning the value of hard work and responsibility is more important than the dollar amount at her age. Maybe the harder she works, the lazier he'll seem - before it's too late. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Her economic value may be minimum wage but his is less since no one will hire him (and, the longer he doesn't work, the harder it will be for an employer to consider him)!! He sounds like a looser and a jerk. I hope she gets away from him. Eta--shame on his parents for letting him sit at home and be worthless!! For years!! Mind boggling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 He graduated high school in 2012. He sat around for two years. He did not work or even volunteer during this time. My husband and I felt this was a huge red flag. He started college end of August. He qualified for a work study but isn't doing it. She was happy and even thrilled with her job. Now she keeps threatening to quit and saying what he says. I hope our talk this morning gets through to her and that this relationship is history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slartibartfast Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Why isn't he working or in school? What does he plan on doing? I would also be concerned that this is a guy that your dd is going to have to support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 She needs to quit on him instead. Since he studied during the two years, did he collect any college credits or certifications that would at least be useful for job hunting or furthering of education? If this is the daughter that is already stressed by her yucky college dorm-mate. He seems to just add more stress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Her economic value may be minimum wage but his is less since no one will hire him (and, the longer he doesn't work, the harder it will be for an employer to consider him)!! He sounds like a looser and a jerk. I hope she gets away from him. Eta--shame on his parents for letting him sit at home and be worthless!! For years!! Mind boggling. I do wonder about the parents. But my son thinks like this. He's definitely heard from his parents "get a job". He's definitely applied for jobs, been to interview and not been hired. Partly I think he says these things to make himself feel better about not landing a job, rather than really trying figure out what he might be doing wrong in his approach. He's also entitled, but we didn't cultivate a sense of entitlement--it's like it's an internal piece of him. The entitlement has definitely kept him from volunteer jobs. So he has no references. My ds is taking cc classes. We do pay for that. Other than that he does nothing. He has no money to go out, so he doesn't go out. So, no girlfriend. I can't imagine a girl putting up with a boy who she had to pay for all the time. Meanwhile his sister started her own business at 9(pet sitting), had two regular volunteer jobs for a few years and landed her first paid position at 15, and at 16 has moved on to a higher paid position. She has a resume with solid references. So, I don't think most parents "let" their child be worthless. It's more complicated. I suspect my ds is embarrassed at his situation. He's 2E so there's a lot of factors floating around him. I've been thinking about this a lot because it is a source of stress in our home. But looking at my older two dc, I think the need for paid or unpaid work by mid teens is very important. Volunteer work should be a consistent gig so it acts as a reference, not 2 hours here and there showing up to help with random projects (food drive or community clean up don't usually result in work type reference). I think because my dd has been working and has references, it will be easier to land internships or part time work related to her field of study in college. The first one may not be great, but it's all stepping stones to the next better thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cinder Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Oh my--that boyfriend is bad news! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyacinth Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 "What do you see in Joe that makes you think he'd be a good husband?" And . . . "Trust what you're seeing, not what he's saying." As for the entitlement mentality, others already said it: Yes, she's "worth" more in a human-life-is-priceless sort of way. But in a monetary, value-in-the-workplace sort of way? Nope. If she truly thinks she deserves more, have her brainstorm ways in which she can support that claim. Ask her how her manager might respond to these kinds of questions: Has she improved any processes? Has she solved any problems? Has she saved or made the company money? Is she the "go-to" person for a particular task or issue? Has she made the boss look good to his or her boss in some way? Has she generated rave customer reviews? Has she been selected for any additional responsibilities (training, supervising, etc.)? Does she function as a leader who inspires her co-workers to perform better, or is she something of a drag on the morale (especially lately with this new attitude)? These are the kinds of questions I ask resume clients; they are particularly helpful in getting people to think like an employer and see what kind of value they do--or potentially can--add to the workplace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardenmom5 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 If you are uneducated, with no skills, then you ARE worth minimum wage. some are NOT even worth minimum wage. someone (no matter their skills set) who won't do a basic job that pays minimum wage, isn't even worth that . . . . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Well,there is nothing wrong with thinking your work and time is worth more than minimum wage. I know mine is for sure.But then you had better be willing to do the work to prove it. However, I don't think I am too good for minimum wage. If that was my only option then I would take it. There is no shame in honest labor and I don't treat people differently based on how much they earn per hour. I don't measure personal worth by the paycheck. There is a difference between thinking my time and effort is worth more and thinking it is beneath me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 My daughter started in on me recently that she is worth more than minimum wage. I have been dumbfounded over it, but ticked. I have told her "NO you are not! You are unskilled, uneducated, working in a part-time minimum wage job. Feel lucky you HAVE a job!" and this conversation has repeated. Wow. If your daughter believes that her time is worth more than $7.25 an hour, she gets to make that decision. I worked a minimum wage job for several years, resigning this April. I am worth more than minimum wage, and so is everyone else who works there. Without workers, a business can't function, but the wages paid to the people who keep the business in business are poverty wages. If a business can't function if it pays more than poverty wages, it shouldn't be in business. Everyone is worth more than the current minimum wage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottakee Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I agree that the boyfriend sounds like he is the problem here. I like the idea of asking her what she sees in him that would make a good husband/father someday. Sad to say in our area, wages are VERY depressed. A job my husband had 25 years ago is now paying LESS per hour than he made doing the same job 25 years ago..........and he had full benefits and a bonus program now. That said, a college teen is happy to find a decent minimum wage job right now in our area as jobs are scarce. Besides the wages, she is also gaining a lot of experience that may well help her out in the future. Sadly though again.......I was making $9-10/hour 25 years ago working in a nursing home kitchen. I started at $2.90/hour and worked my way up. If though I wanted to go back and do my old job I would likely be making $8-9/hour 25 years later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I would be worried that if he keeps working on her, she might feel it is better to quit her job and have no job than to keep working until she has a better opportunity. (Then she would be just like him.) I think that would be a mistake. I know it is old-fashioned, but sometimes men can't stand for their woman to be doing better in the work world. It is possible that he is (consciously or subconsciously) trying to bring her down a peg rather than boost her up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anne in CA Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 This is a big red flag to me. While young people have all kinds of scary attitudes, the worst ones are when they believe they shouldn't have to put in any time to becoming well paid. This makes you unemployable, and in the computer age when companies easily share information can make you unemployable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I've always been proud of the low-wage, hard work I did while young, and I make sure my kids see this. When kids are young, a minimum wage job can be viewed as more of an apprenticeship. Let's face it, most of us were not born knowing how to create economic value in a workplace. Personally I think we should be thankful that employers provide the opportunity for young people to learn this. The issue of being stuck in minimum wage jobs long after the age of apprenticeship is a whole other issue, which does not apply to the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjffkj Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Is she in school? Are you paying for it? Do you pay her other bills? Is she living at home? If she is living off of you at all I would make it abundantly clear that in order for it to remain that way she needs to be working so quitting her current job before she has another one lined up is not an option if she wants the arrangement to stay the way it is. If she does choose to quit and doesn't have another job I would cut her off(I'm guessing she is over 18, not positive since you didn't specify that.) It sounds harsh but if she is going to allow her bf to poison her work ethic she needs a harsh wake up call that it doesn't matter what you think your worth sometimes. What matters is having money coming in and until you have the skills an employers wants that will pay you better you need to do the work that you can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garga Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 The question isn't about how much she's worth, but the fact that he isn't working. I wouldn't bother trying to explain to her too much about her "worth" at that job. That's just a sideline conversation. The real conversation is what she really wants out of life. If she wants to be the breadwinner, then that's what she'll have with this guy. She also shouldn't expect him to stay at home and raise the kids. A man who sits around and won't work also won't want to do child care. So, if she just wants him for companionship while she does all the heavy lifting in life, that's what she needs to be prepared for. He would be like a mistress to her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 A person's worth isn't tied to their wage. And a person's wage has more to do with the job they are working than it does with their skills. I bill about $35-45/hr for various nonprofit related services. I could probably press that higher if I made and executed a plan. But if I decided to get a job at a bar, coffee shop or grocery store due to convenience or hours or sudden interest or whatnot, I wouldn't be "worth" any more than other starting employees. At a bar or coffee shop that would be minimum wage. At a grocery store here, probably a tad more. Nowhere near what I can earn in another capacity. Honestly, if I were in your shoes I would be most worried about my adult child perhaps being the sort of person who parrots the values and talking points of their new friend without thinking critically about it. She needs to learn her own values and how to not be swayed from herself by some random new dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 If a business can't function if it pays more than poverty wages, it shouldn't be in business. Everyone is worth more than the current minimum wage. Not all jobs are "living wage" jobs. The problem with our economy is not the existence of entry-level, minimum wage jobs but that people get stuck in them for years on end. It's one thing to be working PT at a minimum wage job in one's late teens or very early 20's. It's quite another to be a decade+ out of school and trying to support a family on a PT, minimum wage job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elisabet1 Posted October 20, 2014 Author Share Posted October 20, 2014 She actually worked over the summer for more than minimum wage. She got that job because she did tons of volunteer work for them, and put in extra time and all for a few years. So, when she graduated high school (and she is 18 yrs old now) they offered her full-time for the first half of summer for $10/hr. Her other job is at the movie theater. She gets minimum wage, but she admittedly does not even work as hard as she did at the other place. Plus, she gets free movies, free pop, and free popcorn. He, on the other hand, refuses to work. She tried to help him apply to some places, but she never knew of him actually applying. He never had an interview. Yes, this boy is on his way out. I have made it clear what I think of this. As far as I can tell, she is starting to see the light. IF she choses not to heed our warnings, then she will have to make adult decisions to move on with him. We have made it clear that if she wants to run off with him, she needs to fund that. And she can see he is not able to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JadeOrchidSong Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Not all jobs are "living wage" jobs. The problem with our economy is not the existence of entry-level, minimum wage jobs but that people get stuck in them for years on end. It's one thing to be working PT at a minimum wage job in one's late teens or very early 20's. It's quite another to be a decade+ out of school and trying to support a family on a PT, minimum wage job. I agree. If one doesn't want minimum wage job, one can apply for better paying jobs. One should improve one's marketable skills to earn more. It is not the businesses' fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TranquilMind Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 My daughter started in on me recently that she is worth more than minimum wage. I have been dumbfounded over it, but ticked. I have told her "NO you are not! You are unskilled, uneducated, working in a part-time minimum wage job. Feel lucky you HAVE a job!" and this conversation has repeated. A bit clueless on where this is all coming from, as she has always done tons of volunteer work and had been thrilled to get this job. Move forward to this weekend...boyfriend visits. This boyfriend has seemed like a great guy. He is polite and respectful and good to the other kids. He was home schooled all the way through school. But there was a red flag early on. He has never had a job, ever. He has never done volunteer work. When my daughter tried to talk to him about getting a job, he said something about his resume. Realize, no college, no skills, nothing. He graduated high school (home school) and spent two years doing nothing. He actually did study a ton during this time with college textbooks so he is quite smart, book wise. But he has never worked. I felt that was a huge red flag. I asked my daughter if she resents that she is off at work, over the summer, she worked two jobs, while he sits at home waiting for her to be available. She admits, this bothers her. I asked how she will feel the next summer if he fails to go to work again and she is the only one working. They are talking marriage and she is the only one with saved money to put toward the wedding and marriage and all. She said she would be ticked. She has even been planning a wedding, but then came to me and said she was bothered that she is the only one paying for this wedding and he has nothing to contribute. Moved on from that... She is still madly in love, but I am suspecting part of that is boredom. She seems to think she is really in love, but she has no interest in being the sole financial provider here, while he relaxes. So he is here this weekend. He proceeds to tell me that she is worth more than minimum wage. He says she should not have to work in that job. He brings up my helping her find a job that pays better. Again, I brought up, she is unskilled, working part-time, at a movie theater. She needs this money for college. All her bills are paid right now, so she is very lucky. All this continues on with him arguing that she is worth more. And that really, she is too good for this job. I finally realize where her bad attitude is suddenly coming from about her job. Until a month or two ago, she loved her job. She was thrilled to have it, felt lucky to have it, and was working hard. Now, she has been slacking off and complaining to the point of crying sometimes, that she is not paid well enough and the work is too stressful. Not happy about this. I have had a big ole talk with her about this this morning. She headed off to work and I am hoping when she comes home, I am hearing her thoughts on it that she realizes how this attitude and such is not a good thing at all. I want to add that I asked her how she will feel if next summer, she is working again while he is sitting around being too good for her job or her wages. She said that will make her angry. As a landlord, the entitlement mentality of millenials is well known. Sorry it has struck close to home in the boyfriend. Yes, that is a serious red flag and she should run! She will be supporting him for life otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Ashton Kutcher made a great rant about this level of entitlement thinking. I'd watch a video of that with her (I'm sure it's on YouTube, there's even a video of him discussing it on the Ellen show on YouTube). It's been a while since I had a kiddo watch Mary Kate & Ashley movies, but one of those even has a rant against a lazy entitled spoiled brat about how much better it is to work. Little House on the Prairie (the TV show) had constant themes about the virtues of hard work too. I think I'd try and surround her with messages like that if at all possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katy Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 One more thing- make sure she understands that if she goes into marriage supporting him, when she gets sick of his laziness and leaves him, she will be subject to continuing to pay alimony. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linders Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Who is funding this young man to sit around a read college textbooks (but not attend college)? I assume someone is feeding/clothing/providing his technology? Honestly, early in that conversation I would probably have asked a blunt, "And what are your plans? How are you planning to go about getting a high-paying job?" I hope your DD sees the light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melbotoast Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 http://blog.ted.com/2013/09/06/ted-radio-hour-the-next-greatest-generation/ I listened to part of this program on Saturday and thought Meg Jay's comments were great. Your twenties should be where you set your course for the rest of your life. I hope your daughter leaves the dead weight behind soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 2 separate issues. First, I believe the minimum wage is too low and that every legit job should pay a minimum amount for ONE person to live independently (efficiency, roommates). Nonetheless, I worked low level, crap jobs until I didn't have to anymore. I cobbled together 2-4 of them when needed. Did I work all the time, and too much? Yes. But that is what maturity IS. Second issue: This guy is a loser. I don't support my kids in marrying or even coupling with a loser in the hope that that loser will mature into/grow up. I'd have an upfront conversation about the young man, explicitly letting my dd know that all of the love in the world won't make a person have a work ethic. Some things, for me, are non-negotiables. Work is one of them, period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Not all jobs are "living wage" jobs. The problem with our economy is not the existence of entry-level, minimum wage jobs but that people get stuck in them for years on end. It's one thing to be working PT at a minimum wage job in one's late teens or very early 20's. It's quite another to be a decade+ out of school and trying to support a family on a PT, minimum wage job. I don't agree. The problem with our economy is that employers see wages as a cost to be minimized and not an investment in their employees and the growth of their business. It is evident in the practice of pushing out older workers to hire younger, cheaper ones. It is evident in the shipping of jobs off to low-wage countries. It is evident in the demands of employers that employees have open availability for scheduling and the use of scheduling software to manage staff loads in 15-minute increments. It is evident in CEOs of even failing companies reaping huge bonuses while the low-wage workers get no raises or are laid off. It has historically been evident in the abuse of workers by such measures as locking them in, docking their pay for decisions employers make, working them in sweat shops, sacking them for taking a sick day, etc. The problem is not greedy and entitled low-wage workers who have an inflated sense of worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKL Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I really don't think the issue is how much minimum wage should be. If minimum wage were $10/hr, would this deadbeat be happier with his girlfriend's situation? It is tempting to derail the thread over the politics of min wage, but I don't think it would be fair to the OP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haiku Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 It is tempting to derail the thread over the politics of min wage, but I don't think it would be fair to the OP. I have confined my comments to the issue of minimum wage and worth because I feel that, regardless of where the daughter got her ideas about her worth, the OP's comments to her are an issue which bears addressing. Whether the boyfriend is a good or bad influence is a separate issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I really don't think the issue is how much minimum wage should be. If minimum wage were $10/hr, would this deadbeat be happier with his girlfriend's situation? It is tempting to derail the thread over the politics of min wage, but I don't think it would be fair to the OP. I agree. The issue is work ethic. Obviously some people have a great work ethic and limited opportunities because of limited education etc. but that is not the case with the OP's daughter or boyfriend. For the OP's daughter, this job meets financial needs while she gets the education needed for a higher paying job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forget-Me-Not Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I agree it sounds like boyfriend is the main problem here. And I just have to say, all politics aside, the working minimum wage jobs was GOOD for me as a teen. It kept me motivated to go to college and increase my skills so I didn't have to work at a job like that the rest of my life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Ok, millennials are hardly the first generation to be called entitled and lazy by their elders. They won't be the last. I think this says more about elders and youth than it says about this generation. What I am really curious about is why people keep referencing the consequences of marrying this dude. Millennials are less likely than prior generations to marry some one they are dating at age 18. I am, by a long shot, the earliest married of my peers and marriage was not in the cards at 18. Do I think she should be dealing with this guy? Probably not. But I really don't think anyone needs to be suggesting marriage at all, even if he was the embodiment of all virtues! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyacinth Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Ok, millennials are hardly the first generation to be called entitled and lazy by their elders. They won't be the last. I think this says more about elders and youth than it says about this generation. What I am really curious about is why people keep referencing the consequences of marrying this dude. Millennials are less likely than prior generations to marry some one they are dating at age 18. I am, by a long shot, the earliest married of my peers and marriage was not in the cards at 18. Do I think she should be dealing with this guy? Probably not. But I really don't think anyone needs to be suggesting marriage at all, even if he was the embodiment of all virtues! Because the OP said they are on the marriage track: "They are talking marriage and she is the only one with saved money to put toward the wedding and marriage and all." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joanne Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Ok, millennials are hardly the first generation to be called entitled and lazy by their elders. They won't be the last. I think this says more about elders and youth than it says about this generation. What I am really curious about is why people keep referencing the consequences of marrying this dude. Millennials are less likely than prior generations to marry some one they are dating at age 18. I am, by a long shot, the earliest married of my peers and marriage was not in the cards at 18. Do I think she should be dealing with this guy? Probably not. But I really don't think anyone needs to be suggesting marriage at all, even if he was the embodiment of all virtues! The OP mentioned marriage, and the dd in the OP is saving for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane in NC Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Ok, millennials are hardly the first generation to be called entitled and lazy by their elders. They won't be the last. I think this says more about elders and youth than it says about this generation. What I am really curious about is why people keep referencing the consequences of marrying this dude. Millennials are less likely than prior generations to marry some one they are dating at age 18. I am, by a long shot, the earliest married of my peers and marriage was not in the cards at 18. Do I think she should be dealing with this guy? Probably not. But I really don't think anyone needs to be suggesting marriage at all, even if he was the embodiment of all virtues! Ah but in an earlier thread the OP said that her daughter is engaged. Perhaps others like myself are assuming that this is the same daughter? To the OP: you have written before of your daughter's severe depression issues. If this is the same daughter, I think it is wonderful that she is maintaining a job while being a student. Does she really have time for this Downer Guy in her life? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solascriptura Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 I know someone who married a man with this type of thinking. He seems to quit jobs on a whim. It has been a huge stressor to have a spouse without a good work ethic. Tell your dd that a good work ethic needs to be instilled very early and if a guy she marries doesn't have one, she needs to be prepared to be the main breadwinner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Clearly I read that way too fast! Sorry, I guess my confusion was my own fault, lol. That said, I would be concerned about a very young adult who, IIRC, is having depression/anxiety issues, who doesn't have her education at or near completion and who is working a minimum wage job, focusing on getting married. Why on earth would marriage be a good life step for someone in her position quite apart from the issue of who to marry and their marriageability and crappy attitudes?! IMO, it sounds like she needs to find a stronger sense of self and her own goals before thinking about marrying anyone at all. Her health and wellness is paramount and I don't see how marriage could be the best option even if this guy was fantastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CAmomof4 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 My younger brother graduated college 5 years ago. Was unemployed for a year, then took a part time job as a barista. They offered him a move up to management which he declined, because the "pay increase wasn't worth the extra work." So he still works P/T as a barista. Moved in with his girlfriend, who has 2 degrees and barely makes more than minimum wage. But they "prefer to live at the beach" (his direct quote), in a trendy area, so girlfriend's father still gives her money every month. (They are both now 30YO). My brother has absolutely no motivation to do anything else. He says he wants to do other things, but can't because he has no money. But he never tries to get another job. At this point, who would hire him?? Conversely, my DH's father owns the company for which DH works. My DH started working part time in the summers at 14YO. He worked summers during high school and saved up for his own car. Continued to college. Now he is the general manager of the company, but he has done every job there, including sweeping the floors. To this day, when he wants a raise, he earns it. If we are fortunate enough to still be running the company when my kids are old enough to work, I hope to instill in them these values. OP, glad your daughter has the sense to see that the boyfriend lacks the maturity for marriage material. Wish her the best, she seems to be on the right path. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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