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s/o drugs: what if your child is using?


Perry
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I am curious about this and have questions, but please don't take them as an attack on you.  I am honestly interested in this,

 

Does this mean that the drug using children have been cut out of your life?

Any thoughts on things you wish you had done earlier to prevent it getting to this stage?

 

Q1.  Unfortunately we can't cut him out of our lives.....we are raising his kid for the next 17 years.  But even before that he wasn't cut out completely, but he has been held away at arms length for the last 8 years and now will be for at least the next 17.  We've provided VERY little support, and with 2 exceptions, NONE of it was monetary or things.  If he said he needed gas and we were feeling benevolent, he didn't get money for gas, he got the actual gas, but it wasn't very often and usually only happened because we wanted something from him. There is no trust because everything out of his mouth to us currently is a lie and has been lies for the last 8 years.   Our two exceptions was the money we spent to enable him to "be moved" out on his own at 19.  The other exception was when the GS was born we subsidized a lease to get the baby out of the drug neighborhood his parents were living in at the time because they assured us they were drug free.  Four months later we found out otherwise and we were subsidizing a lease for the grandson elsewhere while he was living with us. 

 

Q2.  Not really.  I wasn't in the picture but 9 months before it all kind of blew up.  My husband was the every other weekend dad with very little actual influence and an ex-wife that tried to alienate the kids at every opportunity.  When they are already 18, it makes things much more difficult.  We "found out" when he got busted with drugs at school while my daughter was in a hospital 2 hours away from home for 2 months.  He also had one of these aforementioned "parties" in the house while we were gone and several important things went missing.  One of said "party" friends stole my DH's wedding ring at one point too. 

 

The youngest is alienated at his own choosing, but then he was the one who was out of control in another way and drastic steps had to be taken there, but it was more to protect him from himself (but still with zero tolerance for his behavior) than it was for the oldest.

 

The middle child just had his own wake up call with substance abuse, alcohol, this summer when he drunk himself so silly he fell off his 2nd story balcony and the only reason he didn't get paralyzed from the neck down or killed was because he was so drunk he didn't know what was happening.  Again *just partying*. 

 

Stefanie

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Genetics isn't destiny.

 

People I know:

 

One was a rock artist. He didn't like the person he was becoming and walked away from the music/drug scene, cold, at 21.

Another was an alcoholic by age 20....he decided there were better things to do with his life and hasn't used a thing since. He puts his addiction trait into work and games of all kinds..racquetball etc.

Another decided since he also had the addiction trait that everyone else in his family had, that he'd be addicted to something postive...working out, without steriods at the gym.

Two came from a family of addicts. Drinking, drugs, etc. One never started and found religion. The other found religion in prison.

 

also .

This supports genetics. These individuals developed addiction according to their genetics (which determines how their brains react to chemicals) and the environment (the triggers that allowed them to use/drink).

 

Their addiction disease was treated; their brains healed sufficiently to not return to use. Use is the symptom, not the disease.

 

Just like a genetically predisposed person developing cancer or heart disease, but correct treatment which may include Rx, lifestyle changes, etc may alleviate disease.

 

Some people have aggressive cases (diabetes, addiction, cancer, heart disease) that are more resistant to treatment. Not a moral or character failing.

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In my experience, drugs are available pretty much everywhere.  If you don't do them, you don't see that or know where to get them but they are there for those who want them.  Many people at my private missionary boarding school are shocked when I say that drugs and alcohol were there.  They didn't see them.  My parents would be shocked if they knew that my homeschooled brother who was hundreds of miles away from that boarding school where he first got drugs, still found a way to get them for over a year.  

 

What triggers that first exposure?  Friends to a great extent.  Drugs and alcohol are often offered to people around the fringes of a social circle where they start to overlap with those from other less healthy circles (think venn diagram).  Is this absolute?  Of course not.  But I think it tends to be the case.  If you are approached and have not already found a more healthy way to cope with life's stresses and hurts and the need for approval and stimulation and even adventure as a young person, then there can be a vacuum there that drugs and alcohol can fill.  Sometimes an otherwise pretty healthy young person can be curious and try something but usually those people are also healthy enough to say "is this all this is?  I don't need this" and they move on.  What scares me particularly about drugs is sometimes that first exposure can lead to overdose and some can become addicted very quickly.  

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In 2014, yes, most teens will try something beyond alcohol by the time they are 21. 

 

In today's teen/young adult culture, marijuana is pretty much viewed in the same context as alcohol.  When I was in high school, pot was more fringe; now it's more mainstream.  So yes, I agree that a fair share of people will try something beyond alcohol. 

 

I have to admit that I am skeptical about the numbers if "they" is the institution itself.

 

Same.

 

We all choose our lifestyle.

 

Do we, though? To what extent? Doesn't that depend on the environment we are born into, to a very large extent? Doesn't it also depend on the brain and its predispositions?

 

No, frequently being around illegal, life-destroying drugs is not an excuse for those who start using and abusing them, but it is an explanation. This is so complex. It's certainly more complex than "we all choose our lifestyle". 

 

Absolutely.  Assuming/implying that we all choose our own lifestyle ~ be it with regard to drug use or any other facet of life ~ is imo a means of self-reassurance.

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I agree genetics isn't destiny.

 

We all have the ability to make right choices, just because they are harder choices doesn't excuse our poor decisions.

 

I think a nurse presuming an affection parent means the kid will keep doing drugs is crap. No kid ever did drugs or didn't do drugs just because mommy or daddy showed they loved them too much.

 

The blame thing I agree with though. It perpetuates the cycle and absolves personally accountability - which also cripples their sense of ability to change things.

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The bolded is actually laughable. Like physical affection is a predictor of whether a kid can beat addiction???? What? I also take issue with the assertion that parents are the main indicator of whether a kid can get clean. I know what enabling is, but blaming the enabler is just as backassward as you can get.

 

Zero tolerance is meaningless.

 

I would encourage anyone with this mistaken impression to look for the book Clean

 

http://www.amazon.com/Clean-Overcoming-Addiction-America%C2%92s-Greatest-ebook/dp/B006R8PNJW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1413999045&sr=8-2&keywords=clean

No one ever said parents make a kiddo an addict. But, irrespective of why kiddos start using, I can still predict who I will see over and over again in an ER just from the parent's behavior at that point. Would you prefer those of us working the trenches lie to you?

.

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No one ever said parents make a kiddo an addict. But, irrespective of why kiddos start using, I can still predict who I will see over and over again in an ER just from the parent's behavior at that point. Would you prefer those of us working the trenches lie to you?

.

Ugh. There's so much lack of logic to this. Just because you keep seeing them doesn't mean it's bc the parents are doing the wrong things. In fact, you might keep seeing them bc the parents are doing all the RIGHT things. Parents who are fighting tooth and nail and staying involved and being ready to help in any way they can also do all the things you mention.

 

The parents who don't do those things? Maybe you don't see their kids in the ER again bc they are dead in a ditch and neither you or the parents ever even know. (ETA: I don't think this is always true either btw. I think parents do the best they can at the time and pray to God it's enough. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it isn't. And bc they love, they wonder if it's bc they didn't love enough. It's usually not about their parenting. But moms blaming themselves seems to be hard wired.)

 

Not seeing them doesn't mean they got better. Medical staff never see the people they never see, but those people still exist.

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I appreciate this discussion. As someone who experimented with drugs and alcohol from a young age, I have some thoughts. I can say that a 'zero tolerance' policy would have done absolutely nothing to stop me. I hid so many things from my parents precisely because I was afraid of their reaction to my truth. At the same time, I am not sure that an "I'm here for you, so call me no matter what' policy would have stopped me either -- though I must admit that I probably would have been closer to my parents and shared more with them had they communicated with me in such a manner.

 

I think that I experimented with sex/drugs/alcohol primarily because 1) many of my friends did and 2) I am simply a risk-taker by nature. I knew the possible repercussions of my decisions; I simply did not care. The thrill of experimentation and the desire to lead/fit-in with peers were simply stronger motivations for me.

 

I thank my lucky stars all the time that I did not become an addict -- at least, not in the traditional sense of the word (my addictions are mostly of the working/spending variety) -- because I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder as an adult and have many relatives who have struggled with mental illness and addiction throughout their lives.

 

What will I do with my children? I am not entirely sure, but I do think that taking the "I am here for you" approach is the wiser course of action. At least then you stand a chance of being clued into what is happening in your children's lives when they are scared and/or unsure. I will likely also show them movies like Trainspotting and Requiem for a Dream, and try to give them as realistic picture as I can of their choices. The reality is that the vast majority of people that I know who use drugs in adulthood are functioning members of society. They have good jobs, great kids, own homes, went to good schools, pay their taxes, etc. But, I also have several friends that have struggled with addiction. The scary part is that they did all the same things that the rest of us experimenters/recreational users did; they just drew the short end of the stick in the genetic lottery. Given the significant likelihood that at least one of my children will also struggle with mental illness, I definitely worry that they will attempt to self-medicate with drugs/alcohol.    

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Come hell or high water, I AM here for my kids. Being *here* might mean screaming and throwing a tent at them and changing the locks on the house. Being *here* might mean praying to God desperately they see reason and stop as I hold their hand in the ER while their stomach is pumped. Being *here* might mean something else. Idk. Bc praise JC I have not had to know first hand.

 

But I do know I AM here. I pray every single day to be the mother they need me to be. Many days, despite all the psychobabble, that all we've got. It's a very humbling realization. For me anyways.

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No one ever said parents make a kiddo an addict. But, irrespective of why kiddos start using, I can still predict who I will see over and over again in an ER just from the parent's behavior at that point. Would you prefer those of us working the trenches lie to you?

.

 

 

Because I've been in the situation, I can envision what you've seen, and I bet you're right. (and because much of my family were in healthcare and ER nurses)

 

It's not JUST that they're patting the kid's head, giving them a hug, it's how they do it. Poor baby, it's not your fault... There's another dynamic at work. It's not just a hug, it's a hug with the attitude that they are not responsible for their choices. That this arbitrarily happened to them. 

 

My most favorite story about a local town drunk? When we were in the er waiting to get a penny removed from dd's throat, he got wheeled in. He was cuffed to a gurney. His pants were down around his knees, he was bare for the world to see and he was yelling, "Just you wait! When my mom gets here? She's gonna yell at all of yoooouuu!" Saddest part? He must've been in his late 40s. 

 

And yes, I know first hand that a small use of drugs normally is the crack of the door that blows it open wide. My kids? Have seen the devastation first hand and have NO interest in traveling down the same road. 

 

 

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This is a topic of great concern for me. Dh nor I ever tried drugs. We have consumed small amounts of alcohol on social occasions in years past, but neither of us has ever been drunk. I think it is a personality thing with us. Dd seems to be a blend of us in personality and thought patterns. We can talk openly and easily with her about drugs and alcohol abuse. She seems to get all the facets of the subject.

 

Ds is who worries me. He is hard-wired for addiction. 1. Family history. Both of his bio-parents are or were drug users and alcohol abusers. I know this from family and some old social services records. 2. His psychiatrist believes he will be diagnosed bi-polar at 16. Unfortunately, when this condition is not well regulated medically, there is a higher propensity to self medicate with drugs and/or alcohol. But most concerning is 3. He already shows addictive tendencies. I am not saying that he will go this route, just that if he does, I have a real reason to believe that he will become addicted. He is the type who won't have the luxury of experimenting and then maturing out of it or whatever.

 

He is much less mature for his age and is still very black/white thinking. His ODD also makes things more difficult. Some of what we are doing is very subtle, and we are coming at this from pre-teen years right now. But we have done the following:

1. Same straight talk as with dd. Point things out as we see them or encounter situations.

 

2. We treat all medications with great respect. In other words, if xyz is prescribed for every 4 hrs then that is what you do, not every 3.5 hrs etc. We point out the effect of chemicals on the body. He takes a lot of meds, and he sees how seriously we take that in how we administer and monitor them. We keep them in a lock box, never mix meds with other people etc. I hope this lays a foundation for chemicals and drugs in general, a mindset of respect and seriousness. I had to take his bio-great grandmother aside and explain to her why she absolutely cannot give him cough drops as candy!!!!!! They are medicine used for a purpose. period. We take a strong stance on this. This may sound very over-the-top strange, but I buy the least tastiest of all medications. I go with pills when possible. But for occasional heartburn, he gets liquid gaviscon not the tums tablets. Why? Because tasty meds were a problem when he came to us. He would fake coughs for cold medicine and claim headaches. When we tried anything non-med for relief, he would scream and demand the tylenol that he used to get at his last home. These don't happen anymore, thankfully. It took us a while to break him of it though.

 

3. Talk about boundaries and limits and self discipline as its own topic, not just drugs, but life stuff. We talk about social drinking, but why it is probably best for him to not consider that a great option. We model with friends and family that alcohol/drugs are not required for a party or a good time.

 

4. We talk about his personal situation. How his life has been impacted by the choices of others and their addictions.

 

5. We talk about our faith and God's plans for him and how God desires us to live. We model this. We use devotionals etc.to support this.

 

6. We monitor as closely as possible, any outside influences that would seek to undermine our teachings. If we can't prevent them then we re-direct the teachings on them.

 

I hope and pray that neither of my dc take that gamble. It only takes one time to end in disaster. I am reading this thread for future/present wisdom and thank you ladies for sharing.

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This topic reminded me of something I saw at Office depot that had me flabbergasted. It was scented glue! Of all things, yes, let's encourage our kids to sniff substances that are meant to be used as tools and are not designed in their own right to be desired for their aromatic properties. I have no problem with scented things that are by design for the purpose of smelling nice such as candles or room sprays. But this just reminded of candy cigarettes. My dh thought I was amusing as I ranted on for 10 minutes. He laughed when I called it gateway-glue. But I just don't want to encourage kids that everything is supposed to be sniffed....... I know, I'm a nut-job. :lol: But, I am telling you, ds would be sitting around all day shoving blueberry glue up his nose.

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This is a topic of great concern for me.

...

 

Ds is who worries me. He is hard-wired for addiction. 

 

Don't forget to try to find things he really, really likes doing - those things that bring out the pleasure hormones (there is that other thread on suggestions for these based upon what many of us like).  When he is looking for something because he is down in the dumps, it'll be great if he has experience with other methods to pick himself up.

 

Otherwise, best wishes to you!

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Ugh. There's so much lack of logic to this. Just because you keep seeing them doesn't mean it's bc the parents are doing the wrong things. In fact, you might keep seeing them bc the parents are doing all the RIGHT things. Parents who are fighting tooth and nail and staying involved and being ready to help in any way they can also do all the things you mention.

 

The parents who don't do those things? Maybe you don't see their kids in the ER again bc they are dead in a ditch and neither you or the parents ever even know. (ETA: I don't think this is always true either btw. I think parents do the best they can at the time and pray to God it's enough. Sometimes it is. Sometimes it isn't. And bc they love, they wonder if it's bc they didn't love enough. It's usually not about their parenting. But moms blaming themselves seems to be hard wired.)

 

Not seeing them doesn't mean they got better. Medical staff never see the people they never see, but those people still exist.

Currently I work in a small town ER and have worked in three others in the past. So, yes, we do know what happens to most of these kiddos. Everyone knows everybody. I have worked in two very large, big city ERs, and you are right, we never see the outcomes to almost anybody.

 

I surmise that the parental behavior with teens is either helping to shorten or lengthen the time a teen uses drugs. If the means is still allowed, i.e. Roof, food, cell phones, and money, then the teen has more opportunity to continue destructive behavior. If the means is cut off, then teens hit rock bottom quicker, hopefully before the pattern of use escalates, and the teen gets well faster.

 

Obviously, there are always exceptions, but generalities are important, too. We need to remember that teens need outside enforcement to use drugs more than adults do. Adults can be self sufficient, hold jobs to pay for said addictions, better equipped to cover up problems, etc. Not many teens are prepared to become self sufficient addicts. They are more dependent on friends and family, at least initially. That is why the behavior of the parents is so important. "Being there" for a teen drug user may mean not being there at all. It may mean other things, too, as I am not an expert on teen drug addiction recovery. But, I am an expert on who I will see over and over again in a drug induced problem.

 

In case anyone is interested, her is behavior from parents making it less likely I will see teen again in the ER:

 

1. Parent peeks into the room and then leaves to wait in the waiting room or waits outside the room.

2. Parent who grabs wallet, cell phone, empties pockets and walks out.

3. Parent who says, "that's it. It is over now."

4. Parent who asks if we can call the police.

5. Parent who immediately requests a Baker Act or Marchman Act. (Holds kiddo against his will)

6. Parent who requests inpatient facility transfer.

7. Parent who does not say goodbye to his kiddo.

 

Personally, after seeing a thousand of these kiddos over the years, I am hoping I will be there for my kiddo like this if the time comes.

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In case anyone is interested, her is behavior from parents making it less likely I will see teen again in the ER:

 

1. Parent peeks into the room and then leaves to wait in the waiting room or waits outside the room.

2. Parent who grabs wallet, cell phone, empties pockets and walks out.

3. Parent who says, "that's it. It is over now."

4. Parent who asks if we can call the police.

5. Parent who immediately requests a Baker Act or Marchman Act. (Holds kiddo against his will)

6. Parent who requests inpatient facility transfer.

7. Parent who does not say goodbye to his kiddo.

 

Personally, after seeing a thousand of these kiddos over the years, I am hoping I will be there for my kiddo like this if the time comes.

 

I could maybe see this for a repeated time, but for a first time?

 

We were in the ER with my youngest after an ambulance had been called due to seizures he was having.  They tested him for drugs.  I'm told they test all similar cases for drugs.  As parents, we had no idea what was up.  We didn't even see that seizure (or any before it - this was his second one).  I knew it could be drugs as he was a teenaged boy...  It never ever occurred to me to do any of the things you mention in your list.  We stayed there with him.  It was never a question that we wouldn't.

 

It turned out to be a form of epilepsy that isn't super common the way it was being expressed with him, so we were all relieved, but at the time we were there... we didn't know.  On the "plus" side, I knew he wasn't using drugs even though I would have guessed that if asked.  ;)

 

Kids at school who do drugs often have parents who don't care about them time-wise (they might still have feelings, of course, but some don't even have that).  Some are strung out themselves - or in jail.  Some are just plain busy.  Some believe in letting their kids have absolute freedom to be kids and this is part of their freedom.  (We're more free range, so not against general freedom, but we don't go that far.)

 

So maybe I could see your pattern with a repeat offender when the parent already know what is going on, is fed up, and wants to do something different to try to get change going, but I think the first time parent isn't in that spot by default.

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Hmm, in my old circles, "party" was code for really hard drugs - literally crack or meth.  So "likes to party" would bring on a serious discussion about judgement.

 

My parents did far worse things than I ever could have done, which removed the rebellion aspect for me.  They explained it to me young, they told me they'd love me whatever I did but they hoped I'd make different choices than they did because of (all the reasons).  In high school I was way too busy to get involved in much, and my family's addiction history scared me, as well as an allergic reaction to codeine and a Sweet Valley High book where a character died the very first time she tried cocaine.

 

When I left for college my dad (who was a cop), called and gave me a long lecture about which drugs were to never be tried (meth, crack, because they were too dangerous and you could be addicted the very first time you try), which might be okay to try only if you are very sure of the source because they could be cut with something dangerous, and finally ended with, "smoke all the pot you want.  All that will do is make you fat."  Which was very effective, because what teenage girl wants to get fat?

 

In a more serious way, if a kid's life was getting negatively impacted by liking to party, I'd start with support and rehab, and then I'd turn to tough love.  I'm not going to enable any sort of bad behavior or entitlement if I can help it, addictions included.

 

ETA: I just typed this entire thing and realized I hadn't mentioned the way I handled it. I pretty much follow the same tactic as my parents.  DH is a little more motivated towards sort of natural consequences - if a kid stays out past curfew and it seems they've been drinking, chances are pretty high that they're going to be woken up at 5am for yard work, because it's super fun with a hangover.

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The author of Clean, David Sheff, talked at our high school last year along with his son Nic. In Beautiful Boy, David also wrote about Nic's downfall from being a much-loved, happy, bright student, who was making good grades and involved in athletics, to becoming a cystal meth addict. Both are good books to read. Clean discusses many of the issues involved in addiction including treatments, many of which are not known or used throughout our medical establishments.

 

For addicts, behavior is important but there is more at play than just behavior. Their neural circuitry greatly affects them, too, and they can be either born with a less-than-ideal set up or it can be created through traumatic experiences. Have you ever read about the Adverse Childhood Experiences Study (ACEs)? To sum it up simply, the more trauma a child experiences, the more likely the child will use alcohol and drugs, become pregnant unintentionally, commit suicide, etc. They die earlier. Also, the *portals* that make learning possible, begin to close. From Paul Tough's book How Children Learn, here are some findings of ACE scores compared to individuals with a score of 0 (btw, my score is 4):

 

For men with a score of 5 -- 46 times more likely to have injected drugs into themselves

For adults with a score of 6 -- 30 times more likely to have attempted suicide

 

For adults with a score of 7 -- who never smoked, drank to excess, did drugs or became overweight -- 360 times more likely to develop ischemic heart disease. This last one is telling. It shows that even when an individual does not engage in negative behaviors, something other than negative behavior is making them sick. If we are not well emotionally and we don't deal with it, it will manifest itself physically.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/acestudy/findings.htmltp://acestoohigh.com

 

How the ACE study came to be.

 

http://acestoohigh.com/2012/10/03/the-adverse-childhood-experiences-study-the-largest-most-important-public-health-study-you-never-heard-of-began-in-an-obesity-clinic/

 

Also, about 40% of US children do not develop a secure attachment with even one parent. Parent-child interaction therapy and child-parent psychotherapy were developed to help.

http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S39/59/37A89/index.xml?section=topstories

 

The above are some reasons why certain individuals are more vulnerable to becoming and remaining addicts. It's not as simple as a person who is merely making bad choices. The good news is that much can be done to create healthy neural circuits. The brain is plastic all throughout life.

 

To the OP, I don't know what the right answer is or if there is one, but here is what we have tried with our kids:

 

1. Educate them about drugs and what they can do

 

2. Make them practice mindfulness breathing. It is actually extremely effective in changing neural pathways. The goal is to build up enough neurons in the parts of the brain to help stave off depression and anxiety and to help them develop the ability to stop and think for just a moment before they act on a decision.

 

3. Listen and be with them. Be kind. Model the behavior we'd like them to have as best as we can.

 

That is what we do in our family but it's still no guarantee.

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Garbage. No parents ever cured addiction by withholding affection. Inpatient therapy is great if you can get it but it's no panacea. Nor is involving the cope or jail time.

 

I really have no idea why this sort of tough love nonsense is perpetuated as the answer.

 

I'm equally baffled as to why working in an ER (acute care) would qualify one to speak to addiction (a long term prpblem) as some sort of expert.

 

Old school punitive paradigm. Since the criminal justice system has taken over the treatment of addiction, we've had.......more addicts.

 

The desire to use "tough love" is usually within the motive of "helping them reach their bottom." I'm not a fan of "bottom theory" when it comes to addiction. We don't wait for bottoms on other diseases, we should not wait on this one, either.

 

Bottom-reaching and its effectiveness are nebulous and elusive. People are more likely to get better based on reaching *toward* something rather than away from something (usually legal, relationship, financial or health consequences).

 

"We", as a culture, won't get far in responding to the health crisis of addiction until we start treating it like a disease functionally, not just in name only. Treating it like the disease it is allows us to see the over-consumption and related behaviors as symptoms.

 

Calandalsmom, if you haven't already seen The Anonymous People, I think you'd enjoy it. It gives some history of the politics behind addiction and recovery.

 

For those who would like some good info on the *disease* of addiction with well presented science, Pleasure Unwoven is good.

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{{{Chris and son}}}

As you know, your son has a chronic, relapsing brain disease.

 

My son (just celebrated 90 days - again) has the same disease. He is currently doing better than he has been in 10 years, including his first try at sobriety. I KNOW this stuff from every angle, every chair, have every t-shirt. And I made mistakes. ;)

 

I love you and your son by extension.

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Thank you, Joanne. That brings me to grateful tears. I so appreciate your support and kindness thru the years, I can't even say how much. And thank you for sharing your own stories, too.

 

Of course we all make mistakes. Nothing has taught me more about being human and the need for grace than this journey.

 

Blessings to you and your son.

 

One day at a time. Seek the joy.

 

I love you, too. :001_smile:

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