s/o drugs: what if your child is using?

[Perry]

So let's say you *have* talked to your kids about drugs and alcohol, and they know what your expectations are, and they choose to experiment anyway.  I'm not talking about addictions, but an otherwise normal functioning teen who likes to "party." How have you handled that? 

 

 

[Guest]

I have no experience with this topic. I am sorry for anyone in such a circumstance.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'm assuming you mean an underage teen?  Answers would change depending on if they are legal to partake or not.

[TranquilMind]

So let's say you *have* talked to your kids about drugs and alcohol, and they know what your expectations are, and they choose to experiment anyway.  I'm not talking about addictions, but an otherwise normal functioning teen who likes to "party." How have you handled that? 

Never handled it, but I sure talked a LOT about the consequences and showed them movies and stories about this.

 

One relative flunked out of college by partying.  He's in his 50's now, working a low level job.  He was just as smart as his professional sibs, but he drank instead.  My friend's brother was killed in a car accident while drunk and high.  We've shared this stuff ad nauseam.  We've talked about how it is up to them to choose to be achievers or drinkers/partiers.  In our particular family, choosing NOT to drink at all would be the best way to go and I told them why.

 

Still waiting on the outcome, though one has definitely chosen not to drink.  Hope that sticks!

[Ipsey]

I have no idea. 

It's a scary idea. 

 

I'll be keeping an eye on the responses, hoping this will be information I never need.

 

 

[Jean in Newcastle]

What I wish that someone had said and done for me.

 

"You can ALWAYS call if you feel like something is getting out of control, without fear of a lecture from me.  I'm there for you no matter what."

 

Then. . . spend time with them.  Real time doing real things with no side of moralizing.  The more they have real experiences with mentors and friends who are interested in "real" things, the more likely they are to reject the fake fun of partying.  At least that was my experience.  

 

 

[Slache]

My biggest anti-drug was drug addicts. Is there someone around like that who could encourage them not to do drugs?

[Joanne]

This is a frustrating topic. People have all sorts of ideas and theories but the truth is that in order to be developmentally appropriate parents of teens, we need to give them space to be -------- teens. Reigning them in is a natural response, but often backfires.

 

This, IMO, is one of the situations that presents with absolutely no right, perfect, fool-proof answer.

 

I think that continuing education about the impact of a drug charge on your future. I would be explicit that I don't care whether pot should be legalized, currently it is illegal and the impact on finding work is pervasive when a person is "on papers."

I would have consequences that are strict for dangerous use - no car if they ever drink/use (or text) while driving.

 

I would increase time together, structure, and one on time time.

 

I would be honest when you know that they are using/drinking or planning such an event.

 

I would *consider* rules that once they are 18, a choice to be illegal in the home is a choice to leave the home. However, also know that to make them leave may well require you go through a legal eviction process (yes, really, trust me on this one).

 

I would offer absolute "be there anytime" assistance if the child gets in over their head at any time.

 

I would review from a harm reduction standpoint the things to avoid no matter what (see other thread.)

 

 

[Joanne]

I agree. Thanks to seeing the impact of drugs first-hand at a young age, I have never touched any myself, despite having many addicts (drugs and alcohol) in my family and having been through rough spots where I might otherwise have welcomed the distraction of these things. 

 

As a sad aside, a friend, who has a 12-year old son, wanted to take him to tour a rehab facility so he could see what drugs really do to people. It was meant to be an educational preventative measure. She called the facility asking if a tour would be possible for her 12-year old son. The employee answered matter-of-factly: "Of course. How long has he been using now, and what drugs is he taking?" Apparently, the facility had program participants of the same age. 

 

They can't do this, according to privacy, confidentiality and HIPAA records.

I have had clients that young.

[Ipsey]

What I wish that someone had said and done for me.

 

"You can ALWAYS call if you feel like something is getting out of control, without fear of a lecture from me.  I'm there for you no matter what."

 

Then. . . spend time with them.  Real time doing real things with no side of moralizing.  The more they have real experiences with mentors and friends who are interested in "real" things, the more likely they are to reject the fake fun of partying.  At least that was my experience.  

 

 

I do remember my mother saying this, "I don't care where you are. I don't care if you've been drinking. If you're with someone who is driving and they had one thing to drink, you call me. I don't care what time it is. I don't care if you're in [local town far from ours]. You call me and I will come get you."

 

I always took that to heart.  And I was rarely around people who were drinking and I never drank, so my Mom had no worries, but I always remembered that.

 

I'll tell that to my own kids.

 

 

 

 

[kroe1]

Here are my rules:

 

All money is my money. If you spend my money on something I would not buy, then you no longer have my money.

 

When DS smoked, he was kicked out of the house. Simple, and I have no regrets. After living with friends, under a bush, and out of his car for awhile, he decided food, shelter, and college were better than cigarettes. The other people who have lived out of my wallet over the years go by the same rules.

 

If it happens to an underage kiddo, I would not be able to kick him out, I would, however, make his life miserable in every way I had the time and energy to do. No access to money, no car, no chauffeuring, no phones, etc. What I cannot police, I would hire out to someone else. Luckily, I could have poor kiddo go to work with me so there would not be too many times my eyes would not be on him. If he refused to comply or became violent in no my way, he would be shipped to his overseas relatives. Working on some fishing boats off the coast of Africa will make Mommy's demands look a lot better.

 

In other words, we have zero tolerance in our home.

 

If it happens to my youngest DD14, however, I might cave. That girl could easily make me a codependent. And I know her dad would pay for rehab after rehab after rehab as well as bail money. I just pray she stays self confident and ambitious and God fearing. I am getting old and weak.

[elegantlion]

What I wish that someone had said and done for me.

 

"You can ALWAYS call if you feel like something is getting out of control, without fear of a lecture from me.  I'm there for you no matter what."

 

 

 

 

This is what I have told ds, multiple times. Doesn't hurt that he's seen IRL bad, bad examples and we talk about that as well. 

 

I partied as a kid, I remember thinking smoking and drinking was what I'd do in high school and stop afterward. Our high school had free beer at the 5 year reunion, it was just a party school. My parents never knew because I never came home drunk.  We usually let the buzz wear off before we left where ever we were. Most of my friends were the same way and we never got into trouble, we were the careful ones - or lucky depending upon how you look at it. I went to a party where they were passing pot around the basement while the mom was right upstairs, totally clueless. 

 

If I found out ds was using anything, we'd go back to the conversations. We would use the bad example and discuss his life goals, which don't coincide with partying. We have addiction on both sides of his family, so we've had to be very open and suggest abstinence without trying to sound like a hypocrite. 

 

The biggest issue would be if he got in legal trouble. It's hard to move forward without issue from that. I *think* I could be forgiving toward my son, the law is not so much. 

[Sdel]

So let's say you *have* talked to your kids about drugs and alcohol, and they know what your expectations are, and they choose to experiment anyway.  I'm not talking about addictions, but an otherwise normal functioning teen who likes to "party." How have you handled that? 

 

I wouldn't tolerate it.  I love my child, but if I ever caught her doing drugs I'd have my pound of flesh.  Any recurrence of drugs and I'd probably have to kick her out.  I've dealt with drug addictions from my stepson and DIL for years, I'm raising my grandson because of drugs and I won't tolerate any more of that in my life.  Addictions start with *just partying*.

 

Stefanie

[Joanne]

I wouldn't tolerate it.  I love my child, but if I ever caught her doing drugs I'd have my pound of flesh.  Any recurrence of drugs and I'd probably have to kick her out.  I've dealt with drug addictions from my stepson and DIL for years, I'm raising my grandson because of drugs and I won't tolerate any more of that in my life.  Addictions start with *just partying*.

 

Stefanie

 

Addictions start with introducing drugs/alcohol into a predisposed/diseased brain.

 

I've heard the "wouldn't tolerate it" before. It doesn't usually play out like that, though. In a very practical way, it can't.

 

First, you can't legally kick out a minor child.

Second, if they are adult age, you have to go through a legal process of eviction if they have been in your home, and lived there.

 

Third, lots of people SAY that they would kick them out. For what purpose. The OP didn't say addiction, the OP said "using". They are not synonymous. You kick them out for "using" and they ---------? Do what? Find their own place? Pay their own bills?

 

And if you allow them back, do you drug test weekly? If you do THAT, do you kick them out again?

 

A zero tolerance policy is cumbersome, and not likely to be productive. It's also likely to be age-inappropriate and in the cases of many parents, hypocritical. Teens/young adults have a very fine tuned radar for that.

 

 

[aggieamy]

I agree. Thanks to seeing the impact of drugs first-hand at a young age, I have never touched any myself, despite having many addicts (drugs and alcohol) in my family and having been through rough spots where I might otherwise have welcomed the distraction of these things. 

 

As a sad aside, a friend, who has a 12-year old son, wanted to take him to tour a rehab facility so he could see what drugs really do to people. It was meant to be an educational preventative measure. She called the facility asking if a tour would be possible for her 12-year old son. The employee answered matter-of-factly: "Of course. How long has he been using now, and what drugs is he taking?" Apparently, the facility had program participants of the same age. 

 

I recommend going to watch county court for a morning.  We had a relative that made some serious mistakes in life and went with her to her court hearing.  Before her case they had a whole string of people who were arrested the night before and most appeared to have done some drugs.  It would have scared me straight.  I never experimented with anything because I've had a few close relatives that did drugs and were seriously messed up.  I always figured I'd rather be like my successful relatives rather than my pathetic ones.  

[kiwik]

Much as we may wish it wasn't experimentation with alcohol,drugs, sex and minor law breaking are part of western society. I hope when the time comes I will have a bright idea. My experimentation was due to feeling misunderstood and depression so i'm hoping if my kids feel loved and important they will minimise their foolish acts.

[Colleen]

So let's say you *have* talked to your kids about drugs and alcohol, and they know what your expectations are, and they choose to experiment anyway.  I'm not talking about addictions, but an otherwise normal functioning teen who likes to "party." How have you handled that? 

 

What do you mean by "party"?  That's a rather broad term.  It can encompass addictive and or potentially damaging (to self or others) behaviors on the part of very young teens.  Then again, "using" might reference a 20 yo having a couple of beers while watching a football game.  Huge difference.

 

My guys know I don't agree with this country's hypocritical laws that allow a young adult to vote and go to war even as s/he is considered a "minor" when it comes to buying a six-pack of Bud.  I encourage my young men to be aware of the laws and act accordingly.  I remind them that common sense is often absent where young people are involved ~ and where puritanical U.S. expectations are involved.  I don't wring my hands about a group of guys sitting around a bonfire on the back of my property, sharing a six pack.  Truly, no big deal in the grand scheme of things ~ as long as driving is taken into consideration.  

 

Communication, perspective, recognition that I can't force my preferences on others ~ including my children ~ all of this plays a role in my approach (such as it is).

[Laura Corin]

Well..... coming from quite a different perspective.  Calvin has been drinking socially at home with us for about a year - this is legal and normal here.  Wine was served to the graduating young people at his school leavers' ball - again, drinking with food at that age is legal here.

 

I know that by doing this I can't stop him from becoming addicted if that is the way his brain is wired.  No one on either side of the family has had addictions of any kind, so I have my fingers crossed.  He is going out into a university and a world where social drinking is normal, however.  Given that - and given that he can't drive and his fellow students are unlikely to have cars - I would rather that he be used to drinking than that he be thrown in at the deep end.  He knows that we will always pay for a taxi for him rather than have him get into a car with a driver who has been drinking.  In practical terms, however, he is likely to be able to walk home from anywhere he ends up in his current university.

 

I also expect that he will experiment with marijuana, as I did.  We have talked a lot about legality, safety and peer pressure.  He knows that he can talk to us about anything - this is more important (we believe) than any effects of forbidding it and shutting down the communication.  We have also talked a lot about other drugs - again, the communication, and our ability to help, is more important to us than trying to threaten him into abstinence.

 

I can't stop him from bungee jumping or walking along high walls and, as a teenager, he may well do either of those things.  What I can do is be there to pick up the pieces, and have him know that.

 

L

[LucyStoner]

When my younger brother was 9 and I was 11, our older brother came quite close to a drug induced death. Not the first or the last time, but the absolute scariest time. Honestly, I think that is mainly why my younger brother and I were totally str8 edge-teetotaling-lemonade Lucys when we were teens. We both drink socially now but never to excess. Reenforcing that decision were the tragic deaths of 2 family friends, teenaged brothers, less than 2 years apart. The first son died in a drunk driving accident, the second son from drug induced cardiac arrest. I was younger than the first son, the same age as their sister and a little older than the younger son. The younger son was closer to 15 than 16 when he died. These were close friends from church. It tore their parents and surviving sister apart. It was hard to see them try to carry on after that.

 

Obviously, this deterrent is not good and is not easily replicated. I will talk to my kids but try not to lecture or moralize. I also have and will continue to educate them about the added risks to them of experimenting because they have a long genetic history of addicts on both sides- both their grandfathers, their uncle, all but one great grandparent etc. My older son is 11 so we have started talking with him but he's a very young 11, socially awkward and not really vulnerable to peer pressure boy with ASD so it hasn't been too terribly high on his hierarchy of parental guidance needs thus far.

 

I wouldn't kick out an older teen/adult child who experimented. I might kick out an addict if that was the point we were at.

[Catherine]

Please don't be reassured if your child is on the spectrum. Kids who struggle with social stuff, in my IRL experience, are often drawn to drugs and alcohol as young adults. Just FYI-be vigilant.

[unsinkable]

In our family, I strongly caution against drug (non alcohol) use, even experimenting.

 

For alcohol use, I encourage moderation, and taking it very slowly when you first start drinking.

 

My big fear is binge drinking, especially from new drinkers. Once in college, even for those under 21, the opportunities to drink are so plentiful. I don't want my kids to drink too much, too fast and end up with alcohol poisoning or worse.

 

I also told them they can call whenever, no questions asked for help or for a ride for them or any friends. But given that, under no circumstances should they drink and drive. There are no excuses for that.

[Sdel]

Addictions start with introducing drugs/alcohol into a predisposed/diseased brain.

 

I've heard the "wouldn't tolerate it" before. It doesn't usually play out like that, though. In a very practical way, it can't.

 

First, you can't legally kick out a minor child.

Second, if they are adult age, you have to go through a legal process of eviction if they have been in your home, and lived there.

 

Third, lots of people SAY that they would kick them out. For what purpose. The OP didn't say addiction, the OP said "using". They are not synonymous. You kick them out for "using" and they ---------? Do what? Find their own place? Pay their own bills?

 

And if you allow them back, do you drug test weekly? If you do THAT, do you kick them out again?

 

A zero tolerance policy is cumbersome, and not likely to be productive. It's also likely to be age-inappropriate and in the cases of many parents, hypocritical. Teens/young adults have a very fine tuned radar for that.

 

Hmm...I've got experience with all of this...done it all before, with more than one kid, thank you.  All the bolded are not 100% true in my state.  Not to mention, there ARE options to remove minor children, we've had to use them.  And no, they'll never come back to physically live with me.  There will essentially NEVER be any trust ever again, and when my kid/grandson are old enough, they'll understand the context of just why that is. 

 

Stefanie

 

[creekland]

Working at school, and talking about drugs (not alcohol) I can say that in general (meaning not always), the kids who are busier are less likely to experiment as long as the "busy" is not with peers who are into partying when not busy.

 

Those with significant hours at a job, then other hours doing school and/or hobbies, rarely get hooked on anything.  They often know better with spending their money too.

 

Those who experiment and/or get hooked are those who:

 

1) Want to fit in and this group will take them easily.  This can match what Catherine said about spectrum kids, but can also match those who just don't make friends easily.

 

2) Have too much time on their hands and are just plain bored.  They've played video games and looked at movies and hung out with others and just plain need something "new," so why not?

 

3) Have friends/family already involved.  It's difficult to be the one friend who doesn't do things.  YES, there sometimes is that "one," but face it, it's "one" while the majority are involved.

 

To try to avoid this with our kids, we educated them about all aspects of drug/alcohol use (see other thread), and kept them busy with jobs of various sorts (a great way to make money and get experience too), and watched their friends as best we could.  We did NOT limit friendship - esp for my ps boy - but I did talk with him about some of his friends and their values/expectations vs what I knew he wanted.  There were a couple of times where he voluntarily gave up some of those friendships and other times where he ended up being a good influence on some.

 

But we also told our kids that if they EVER needed us, we were there.  There's no way we'd abandon them and I still feel that way.  A close co-worker is dealing with her now-adult son who got addicted to alcohol at college and has been through some expensive rehab.  They took out a huge loan for that rehab - and they are there for him to this day.  We would be that way.  I don't give up on people, esp family.

 

Interestingly enough, with his rehab, he had to get a job and change his friends... not much different than what I see at school for those who end up involved.

 

We talked with ours prior to leaving for college and emphasized finding a crowd that shares values - or even just a couple of good friends.  It may take a while to find them as they may not be in the majority.  It makes all the difference.

[Joanne]

Working at school, and talking about drugs (not alcohol) I can say that in general (meaning not always), the kids who are busier are less likely to experiment as long as the "busy" is not with peers who are into partying when not busy.

 

Those with significant hours at a job, then other hours doing school and/or hobbies, rarely get hooked on anything.  They often know better with spending their money too.

 

Those who experiment and/or get hooked are those who:

 

1) Want to fit in and this group will take them easily.  This can match what Catherine said about spectrum kids, but can also match those who just don't make friends easily.

 

2) Have too much time on their hands and are just plain bored.  They've played video games and looked at movies and hung out with others and just plain need something "new," so why not?

 

3) Have friends/family already involved.  It's difficult to be the one friend who doesn't do things.  YES, there sometimes is that "one," but face it, it's "one" while the majority are involved.

 

Interestingly enough, with his rehab, he had to get a job and change his friends... not much different than what I see at school for those who end up involved.

 

 

 

Honor students, those in sports and extracurriculars, and those with jobs "use" and experiment. Many millions who DO get hooked also maintain grades, jobs, etc. As adults, millions who are addicted have a seemingly productive life of jobs, education, friends, family.

 

Students developing addiction often do begin to lose the structure (jobs, grades, healthy peer group). Losing jobs, dropping grades, changing peers becomes a symptom of disease, rather than cause.

 

Teens developing an issue begin to surround themselves with others who use at the same rate - and they become convinced "everyone" does the same. (Same dynamic as my adult clients).

 

On the bold, you are right. Building structure, and changing people, places and things are an integral part of early recovery.

[LucyStoner]

Please don't be reassured if your child is on the spectrum. Kids who struggle with social stuff, in my IRL experience, are often drawn to drugs and alcohol as young adults. Just FYI-be vigilant.

Just to clarify I wasn't saying that kids on the spectrum don't use or have addictions, but that as a social awkward, very "young 11" yo with ASD, this issue takes a secondary importance to more pressing needs for guidance (like learning social skills and anger management) and is not as relevant presently for him as it might be for some tweens whose lives are more social and less supervised. My niece's friend is barely 12, has a boyfriend and spends a lot of time interacting with people her parents don't know on texts, online and even in person. For her, this topic is more relevant than it is for a child who only ever texts his parents (if he can even remember to charge his phone) and who has a very short list of friends who socialize in very supervised situations. As he ages, I would assume this topic would be more relevant. I also expect that it will probably be relevant at a younger age for my NT son (age 5) than for my older son because my NT son probably won't have the same very narrow social life as my older son does.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Katie, I understand what you're saying and agree with it for younger kids with ASD.  But for those of us with older kids with ASD, addiction can be of special concern.  http://alcoholrehab.com/drug-addiction/addiction-and-autism/

 

this article explains it as being because of wanting to fit in socially but it can also be because of the obsessive (and even OCD) tendency of many with ASD.  

 

So ds17 knows that his brain especially could be set up for problems with drugs and alcohol.  

[creekland]

Honor students, those in sports and extracurriculars, and those with jobs "use" and experiment. Many millions who DO get hooked also maintain grades, jobs, etc. 

 

They absolutely can - hence why I mentioned "not always" in my first sentence.  Plus, if their friends/family are doing it, they will too (usually).  A group of band kids, sports kids, or honors kids can get together and "have fun."  If they have nothing else keeping them busy (a job on top of their activity), it's more likely.  Wealthier kids also can be more likely due to having more money at their disposal.

 

But in general, the odds do change.  The less busy they are, the more likely (source of busy-ness does not matter).  The more their friends are into it, the more likely.

 

There is not a single group that is immune or destined.  There are only odds.

 

I'll claim no familiarity with adults.  It's not at all common in my IRL circle at school or outside of it.  That may be due to "choosing my peer group" of course.

 

With kids at school, word gets around.  It did when I was in high school too.  A few from my classmates who experimented went on to live really top level (by the world's standards) lives.  The majority hit the ditch or are somewhat sustaining themselves.  Then there were plenty of us who didn't care to try anything (again, not counting social alcohol).

[LucyStoner]

Katie, I understand what you're saying and agree with it for younger kids with ASD. But for those of us with older kids with ASD, addiction can be of special concern. http://alcoholrehab.com/drug-addiction/addiction-and-autism/

 

this article explains it as being because of wanting to fit in socially but it can also be because of the obsessive (and even OCD) tendency of many with ASD.

 

So ds17 knows that his brain especially could be set up for problems with drugs and alcohol.

Thanks for that link. As I stated, I've already started discussing substance use with him, largely because we have a family history of serious addictions, in many forms. It's just not a large worry for him at this time. That said, in my family, if you aren't addicted to one thing, you probably are to another thing. Believe me when I say I claim no indemnity for my sons.

[Trilliums]

Hmm...I've got experience with all of this...done it all before, with more than one kid, thank you.  All the bolded are not 100% true in my state.  Not to mention, there ARE options to remove minor children, we've had to use them.  And no, they'll never come back to physically live with me.  There will essentially NEVER be any trust ever again, and when my kid/grandson are old enough, they'll understand the context of just why that is. 

 

Stefanie

 

 

I am curious about this and have questions, but please don't take them as an attack on you.  I am honestly interested in this,

 

Does this mean that the drug using children have been cut out of your life?

Any thoughts on things you wish you had done earlier to prevent it getting to this stage?

[Trilliums]

We have drug users in the family, both sides.  I just have never felt interested in using drugs or drinking.  I was not scared straight or anything... I just do not like it.  I wonder a lot, why not me when it has negatively affected so many others in our families?

 

One son is aspie and I do not think substance abuse will be a problem for him. He has no interest in fitting in socially and he really does not like doing things that end up with him losing control of himself.  He is a senior in high school and yes, things may change when he goes off to college but I really do not think so.  He is so aspie that he doesn't realize or care how different he is socially.  He is a very happy and relaxed young person too though.  Other child is a milder aspie and he has more anxiety around social situations.  His increased social awareness actually makes it harder for him.   He is aware of the hazards of drug use, but it is still always a worry.  

 

 

When son took driver's ed they covered drunk driving quite extensively.  We both had to sign contracts,  His agreed to call home or take a taxi if he was every intoxicated.  Mine agreed to go pick him up or pay for the cab, no questions asked (at that time) if ever needed.

[creekland]

 

We have drug users in the family, both sides.  I just have never felt interested in using drugs or drinking.  I was not scared straight or anything... I just do not like it.  I wonder a lot, why not me when it has negatively affected so many others in our families?

 

 

I wonder this a lot too.  I see kids at school follow right in line with the rest of the family (trafficking or using) and I see a few who find their own path and stay away, often doing quite well for themselves.  When I ask the guy in our guidance office who tries to help these kids (all of them), he tells me the difference is generally whether they can see themselves doing something else.

 

That may be it, but I really don't know.

 

I know I was often asked why I didn't get involved in drugs/excessive alcohol in my youth due to being put in the middle of a bad divorce and other issues. They were all around me.  It would have been super easy.  I can't even explain it for myself.  I did "escape," but with horses and the great outdoors - not drugs or alcohol.

 

Even at a young age I had a dislike of putting anything like that into my body (said with a wry grin as I'm now on cold meds, ibuprofen, & zinc due to finally bringing home "something" from school that makes breathing hurt as well as being the "first" something I've had since the pressure in my head has increased from the radiation  :glare: .  This is going to be a "fun" few days I'm afraid... and I HAVE to go to work tomorrow - and teach - so "toughing it out" isn't happening - at least - not until Thursday!).

 

But still, I've yet to figure out the answer as to why person A and not person B when they are in essentially the same situation (from a "bad" situation or a "good" one).

 

Whether they get "hooked" or not is likely physical, but the willingness to try (or not) seems to me to be mental and tough to figure out.

[Joanne]

Hmm...I've got experience with all of this...done it all before, with more than one kid, thank you.  All the bolded are not 100% true in my state.  Not to mention, there ARE options to remove minor children, we've had to use them.  And no, they'll never come back to physically live with me.  There will essentially NEVER be any trust ever again, and when my kid/grandson are old enough, they'll understand the context of just why that is. 

 

Stefanie

 

 

This is "more" than the situation described by the OP where a child is not addicted, but experimenting. I hope to goodness that no one is kicking minor children, or even young adult children for occasional use of recreational drugs.

 

I'm not without experience with more dramatic and even dire situations myself. Wish I *didn't* have the T-shirt.

[Joanne]

But still, I've yet to figure out the answer as to why person A and not person B when they are in essentially the same situation (from a "bad" situation or a "good" one).

 

Whether they get "hooked" or not is likely physical, but the willingness to try (or not) seems to me to be mental and tough to figure out.

 

Sentence 1: Because it's mostly NOT situation, and mostly what happens biologically/physiologically when they DO use, drink, experiment. At risk correlations suggest likelihood but not etiology. Addiction (not binge drinking, using X at raves, etc) is a chronic, relapsing brain disease.

 

Sentence 2: I still say in most cases of trying is really as simple as living in the US/Western culture. The risk (in addition to the inherent risks of the substance) is if you put that try into a body described in #1.

[creekland]

Sentence 2: I still say in most cases of trying is really as simple as living in the US/Western culture. The risk (in addition to the inherent risks of the substance) is if you put that try into a body described in #1.

 

All live in the US/Western culture.  Some try.  Many do not.  From the exact same family one may try and another may be totally turned off thinking about trying it.  We really do have an occasional sibling from a druggie family who opts not to try anything even while the rest of the siblings follow along with their culture.  It's rare, but it's happened more than once just at my school.

 

Why A and not B?

[Mrs Mungo]

I haven't BTDT as far as the OP goes.

 

I think seeing the consequences of drug/excessive alcohol use among dh's subordinates has made an impression on my kids. They have heard about DH getting up in the middle of the night to get someone out of jail, then immediately firing that person. we have known people killed in drunk driving accidents, people who have gone to jail, people who have been divorced (and punished) due to a string of alcohol related DV incidents, people who wound up in the mental ward after messing themselves up with stuff like bath salts. They regularly hear about the consequences of such actions.

 

Meanwhile, we try to model responsible social drinking. If one of us has a drink while out to dinner, then the other abstains. If we are sharing margaritas in the evening, then we stay in.

 

Drinking on campuses can have pretty dire consequences (thinking about that terrifying article from The Atlantic on frat houses and drinking). People that age are not necessarily good at regulating without some adult guidance. I would be more okay with college age mild social drinking at my house.

 

I would not be okay with drugs to the point of there being extreme consequences. Extreme. We personally know a number of people who truly ruined their lives with that sort of experimentation, never mind addiction. My kids would be having long conversations with them.

[Jean in Newcastle]

All live in the US/Western culture.  Some try.  Many do not.  From the exact same family one may try and another may be totally turned off thinking about trying it.  We really do have an occasional sibling from a druggie family who opts not to try anything even while the rest of the siblings follow along with their culture.  It's rare, but it's happened more than once just at my school.

 

Why A and not B?

I think it can simply come down to some making a good decision and some not.  I think that discussing all of this ahead of time with kids is good because it allows them to think of different scenarios in their head - esp. a different scenario than simply saying "yes" to a peer offering them something.  Sometimes the offers are relatively benign.  Sometimes they are very high pressure and can be part of bullying.  

 

Dd and I were talking about this just the other day.  She was quite offended that I would warn her (again) about this sort of scenario until I told her that I was not worried about her deliberately choosing to use drugs or alcohol.  She's a very consciously healthy young lady.  But I am worried that she finds it hard to say no to people either because she doesn't want to hurt their feelings or because she feels embarrassed.  So we discussed it in that light.  

[Mrs Mungo]

Sentence 2: I still say in most cases of trying is really as simple as living in the US/Western culture. The risk (in addition to the inherent risks of the substance) is if you put that try into a body described in #1.

I am not sure I understand this statement. Are you suggesting that most people in western culture will try illicit drugs? That isn't my experience at all. My experience is line with other people's that it is hard to predict. I definitely know sibling sets with straight arrows and drug abusers.

[creekland]

I am not sure I understand this statement. Are you suggesting that most people in western culture will try illicit drugs? That isn't my experience at all. My experience is line with other people's that it is hard to predict. I definitely know sibling sets with straight arrows and drug abusers.

 

It's not mine either - even at school.

 

If you add in alcohol, middle son's college told him (RA class) that 67% of students had at least one drink in the past semester (no idea how they got that stat, but they did give it to him as a stat they'd compiled).  This, of course, meant that 33% did not even have one drink.  He's at a secular research U.  While he knows many who do drink (and more), he also knows many who do not.  Even fewer do drugs of any sort.  There definitely are some, but I doubt it's even a simple majority.

[Murphy101]

Just interjecting a side observation....

 

My dh and I do not even comprehend the notion of "recreation" drugs. It's all just straight forward "drug abusers" as far as we are concerned. So for us, yes, if the circumstances warranted it, we would absolutely give consideration to kicking out a drug abuser, even supposed recreation drug use, whatever that means.

 

As for what we would do. It would depend on the kid and circumstances.

[Joanne]

I am not sure I understand this statement. Are you suggesting that most people in western culture will try illicit drugs? That isn't my experience at all. My experience is line with other people's that it is hard to predict. I definitely know sibling sets with straight arrows and drug abusers.

 

In 2014, yes, most teens will try something beyond alcohol by the time they are 21. Most being more than 50%. While many don't try/do anything, there is a more casual relationship with pills, inhalants, and other drugs than when many of us were in school. OTOH, most of the people never develop a problem.

 

But I include alcohol when I talk about drugs and that makes the % even higher.

[Joanne]

It's not mine either - even at school.

 

If you add in alcohol, middle son's college told him (RA class) that 67% of students had at least one drink in the past semester (no idea how they got that stat, but they did give it to him as a stat they'd compiled).  This, of course, meant that 33% did not even have one drink.  He's at a secular research U.  While he knows many who do drink (and more), he also knows many who do not.  Even fewer do drugs of any sort.  There definitely are some, but I doubt it's even a simple majority.

 

 

Sure, but the statistic I am talking about are not young persons reporting current use, but young persons who have tried something at some point.

 

And I have to admit that I am skeptical about the numbers is "they" is the institution itself.

 

As far as doing non-alcohol drugs and college students, a range of numbers would not surprise me. It would not surprise me for the number to be less than a simple majority on any college campus - but a significant number of them probably at least tried/experimented at some point.

 

On other campuses, simple majority use would not surprise me.

ETA: The criminalization of (especially marijuana) has changed significantly since I was young. I hung around the partiers and NO one I knew or heard of ever got a POM case. Today, most public high school kids know of several. Alternative High Schools are common as are other institutions that reflect increased use by teens.

 

BTW, I am not an adult who sees the worst in kids and predicts a dire future based on the youth of today. While I wish they would pull of their pants, I don't think they are very different from my own generation. Although we had better music. ;)

 

 

 

[Sdel]

This is "more" than the situation described by the OP where a child is not addicted, but experimenting. I hope to goodness that no one is kicking minor children, or even young adult children for occasional use of recreational drugs.

 

I'm not without experience with more dramatic and even dire situations myself. Wish I *didn't* have the T-shirt.

 

Um....we did.  The first time we took the relaxed approach.  At the time we discovered the problem it was *just* recreational partying, after removing the 19 year old child from our home it turned into full blown addiction (would have no matter what we did/didn't do) and 8 years later a CPS removal of a child.  My child and grandson will be told continuously; drugs = no trust/relationship and not staying in our household.  They will also be aware of where they will be should they want to make those particular choices unless they make arrangements elsewhere.  I really am serious here.  If I ever find out my DD/GS has used, they'll be sat down and told "It never happens again.  I have zero trust in you now.  Here is the list of privileges you have lost and, if you stop now, you will have the ability to regain.  If I ever find out you have done drugs again, here is the brochure for where I choose for you to continue living or you will be making your own living arrangements elsewhere.  If elsewhere involves a friend's house it will also include full disclosure that you are choosing to continue partaking in drugs." 

 

I've spent a lot of time in my early adulthood with both addicts and rec users, it was only varying shades but pretty much everyone of that culture shared the same negative personality traits.  I haven't come across a single drug user, officially an addict or not, that I would ever want to hang out with myself (now), or have my child hang out with.    Even without full blown addictions, drugs change your brain in undesirable ways.

 

The bottom line; anyone who has ever became an addict was a rec user/just partying first.  If you want to be loosey-goosey on drugs in the name of "kids will be kids", go ahead.  I won't be.  There is too much of yourself to be lost to drug users, let alone the kid(s) themselves.

 

Stefanie

[Laura Corin]

  I haven't come across a single drug user, officially an addict or not, that I would ever want to hang out with myself (now), or have my child hang out with.    Even without full blown addictions, drugs change your brain in undesirable ways.

 

I'm sorry you have had such bad experiences.  I don't think I knew anyone at university who hadn't at least experimented with drugs a few times.  For most, it was just that - an experimental phase.  I don't recommend it, but I haven't seen long term problems with it.  

 

L

[Melissa in Australia]

Um....we did.  The first time we took the relaxed approach.  At the time we discovered the problem it was *just* recreational partying, after removing the 19 year old child from our home it turned into full blown addiction (would have no matter what we did/didn't do) and 8 years later a CPS removal of a child.  My child and grandson will be told continuously; drugs = no trust/relationship and not staying in our household.  They will also be aware of where they will be should they want to make those particular choices unless they make arrangements elsewhere.  I really am serious here.  If I ever find out my DD/GS has used, they'll be sat down and told "It never happens again.  I have zero trust in you now.  Here is the list of privileges you have lost and, if you stop now, you will have the ability to regain.  If I ever find out you have done drugs again, here is the brochure for where I choose for you to continue living or you will be making your own living arrangements elsewhere.  If elsewhere involves a friend's house it will also include full disclosure that you are choosing to continue partaking in drugs." 

 

I've spent a lot of time in my early adulthood with both addicts and rec users, it was only varying shades but pretty much everyone of that culture shared the same negative personality traits.  I haven't come across a single drug user, officially an addict or not, that I would ever want to hang out with myself (now), or have my child hang out with.    Even without full blown addictions, drugs change your brain in undesirable ways.

 

The bottom line; anyone who has ever became an addict was a rec user/just partying first.  If you want to be loosey-goosey on drugs in the name of "kids will be kids", go ahead.  I won't be.  There is too much of yourself to be lost to drug users, let alone the kid(s) themselves.

 

Stefanie

 

Bravo!

 

thank you for your post.

 I am finding myself getting more and more annoyed that people on this board are displaying the attitude that doing drugs is normal and even expected  . :confused1:  There are millions of people, including young people WHO DO NOT DO DRUGS.

 

[creekland]

Bravo!

 

thank you for your post.

 I am finding myself getting more and more annoyed that people on this board are displaying the attitude that doing drugs is normal and even expected  . :confused1:  There are millions of people, including young people WHO DO NOT DO DRUGS.

 

 

In my world those who have tried illegal drugs are a minority.  Drugs are certainly around for those who want them, but many just plain don't want them.

 

Different places, different experiences I suppose.  We all choose our lifestyle.

[kroe1]

Kudos to those families with zero tolerance. I guess after so many years working in an ER, many times I can predict which teens I will see over and over again just by meeting the parents. While there may not be one size fits all for helping teen addiction, there is certainly one size which equals teen addiction.

 

Here are some parental responses which mean I will see teen again in same drug induced mess:

1. Can you ask the doctor to give him something to calm him down?

2. He looks like he is in pain. Can you do something?

3. He needs another pillow and blanket.

4. Can I just take him home now? What is taking so long?

5. Defending kiddo in anyway.

6. Blaming themselves in anyway.

 

 

Here are some parental actions which mean I will see kiddo again:

1. Rubbing his hair.

2. Tucking in his blanket.

3. Handing teen his cell phone.

 

I am amazed how teens under the influence will curse at parents, curse at staff in front of parents, yell, lie, refuse to cooperate, and even hit parents. Yet, parents still take kiddo home. Blows my mind.

[creekland]

 I do not believe he chose to be an addict. 

 

I don't believe anyone chooses to be an addict.  Period.

 

But, whatever the reason, people do (usually) choose to try drugs/alcohol (there are some who are duped into it without their knowledge).

 

I understand the various reasons.  I just see that some are in the same circumstances and choose otherwise.  I don't know why one chooses A and the other chooses B.  

 

As Joanne said, addiction is an issue of the brain.

[creekland]

I don't know that either. Perhaps if we knew, we could stop people from heading down (self-)destructive paths. It's interesting. I don't think it comes down to "choice" though. Many, many factors contribute to the actions a person will take, and it has as much to do with circumstances and society as with the individual. 

 

I definitely agree the odds of which direction that choice will be depends on many circumstances.

 

Part of why I started that "pleasure hormones" thread was to get ideas for suggestions to offer to our kids (or others) to give them alternative choices if possible for when life gets them down or stressed.  I know I found mine in the great outdoors and horses, but there are many, many others out there.

[Joanne]

Bravo!

 

thank you for your post.

I am finding myself getting more and more annoyed that people on this board are displaying the attitude that doing drugs is normal and even expected . :confused1: There are millions of people, including young people WHO DO NOT DO DRUGS.

 

You know what is freaking hysterical? My clients come to me convinced that "everyone" drinks and does drugs - especially the young ones. I spend copious amounts of time telling these clients that that have surrounded themselves with people who do but there are many, dozens, hundreds, thousands and millions (all depending on the client's context) who don't.

 

YOU see what you want to in my posts based on your own experience, you don't necessarily see what I actually write.

 

I personally wish no one would take the risks involved and try alcohol and drugs - but doing so dates back to the first humans so I can only respond in an informed way using my skills in my corner of the universe.

[Murphy101]

Bravo!

 

thank you for your post.

 I am finding myself getting more and more annoyed that people on this board are displaying the attitude that doing drugs is normal and even expected  . :confused1:  There are millions of people, including young people WHO DO NOT DO DRUGS.

 

Me too. I KNOW kids don't just experiment bc they are kids like its some fact of nature like growing pubic hair or voice changing. But drugs and sex are really pushed HARD in our society as things that you just can't keep kids from doing so you should encourage safe use, all while ignoring there is no such thing. It's like saying if you are going to play Russian roulette, do it with only one bullet in the chamber instead of 2 bc that's safer and reduces your risk. While true, it just doesn't seem reasonable advice to us. Dh and I never felt the temptation. I've always laughed that I can humiliate myself publicly without the assistants of drugs of drunkenness. We just never understood the supposed fun of party being synonymous with drugs or drunkenness or hooking up.