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Math Crisis - What to do for freshman year - PLEASE HELP


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OK, my dd 14 is freshman and has been a bit behind in math.  She just completed MUS Algebra today and I have a serious dilemma.  She failed the final.  She knows the concepts when pressed, but when left to do her work she makes the craziest mistakes - simple mistakes - but things that make me seriously question if she truly KNOWS the concepts, ykwim? 

 

How do I proceed from here? 

Do I make her do Algebra over again for freshman year? 

 

I'm hesitant to push her forward into geometry for fear she will just forever struggle as she progresses.  But i worry that she will be too far behind other kids.  How bad is it to do a math sequence that begins with Algebra in freshman year?  What will colleges think?  (We are not looking for fancy colleges.)  She loves programming and coding and is thinking about a CS degree - have I ruined her forever?

 

If I do need to redo Algebra, should I use MUS again?  TT? Oh, please share your wisdom with me!  What would you do?

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I'd hop on the TT site and have her take the placement tests to see how she does.

 

If not well, then I'd see if you could borrow (or perhaps buy) a TT Alg 1 book and have her do the tests in them (on paper) trying to zero in on what she knows or doesn't.  Then I'd go from there.

 

Alg is too much of a foundation to move on from without REALLY good knowledge IMO.  You can choose an actual curriculum you want to use after you know where she's at outside of MUS.

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I'd hop on the TT site and have her take the placement tests to see how she does.

 

If not well, then I'd see if you could borrow (or perhaps buy) a TT Alg 1 book and have her do the tests in them (on paper) trying to zero in on what she knows or doesn't.  Then I'd go from there.

 

Alg is too much of a foundation to move on from without REALLY good knowledge IMO.  You can choose an actual curriculum you want to use after you know where she's at outside of MUS.

 

:iagree:

 

If you determine that your daughter is ready to move into geometry, you might want to continue to have her periodically review algebra to keep her skills sharp.

 

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Let's put it this way:

 

Even if she were looking at fancy colleges, a transcript with C's or potentially worse in advanced math classes due to lack of foundation (and even if you hypothetically fudged the grades, the SAT/ACT would reflect the lack of foundation) would be much worse than a transcript and test scores showing less advanced courses but a thorough understanding of what she has taken.

 

I'd look at re-doing algebra with something else. I wouldn't even mention the MUS algebra on the transcript -- just '9th grade, algebra 1'.

 

If she suddenly makes leaps forward you can look at accelerating later.

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Yes.  Absolutely have her redo it.  There's a boardie here that uses MUS Algebra as her regular Pre-Algebra.  Consider it a strong Pre-Algebra year.   Use a different curriculum that covers more (MUS doesn't even get to the Quadratic Equation in Algebra 1).  Do not use the same curriculum again.  Maybe Jacob's?

 

I have one dd who had to re-do Algebra 1 in 9th.  She went to ps, and didn't pass the placement test.  I think a big part of that was test anxiety - she couldn't eat for a whole day ahead and then bolted from the test 20 min. early.  I think it was a good thing she re-took it.  She will only get to PreCalc in high school, but I think that's better than if she had gone ahead with a weak foundation.

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If she really isn't getting Algebra, I agree, do not press forward.  Please go back and solidify Algebra.  I was your child once upon a time and I have a DD who struggles in math.  Pressing forward could be a disaster.  It would help if you could do assessment tests to see where the disconnect is.  Maybe go back a couple of levels and give her tests from TT and CLE since those are free.  Have her keep moving forward until she hits snags then target those.

 

FWIW, I would not necessarily do TT or at least I would do something alongside TT if she is struggling.  I would do something like Hands-On Equations to help with understanding, plus maybe run her through  the Key to Fractions, Decimals and Key to Percents workbooks to be certain those are solid, maybe doing level one of each then level two of each, etc. then do Key to Algebra.   You might look at pairing this with Khan Academy.

 

Or perhaps Hands-On Equations and Jacob's Elementary Algebra...

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My dd is a freshman at a private, rigorous high school. We used MUS and she completed most of Algebra in 8th(I ler her stop because I planned to have her re-take as a freshman to make sure she was solid in how they taught). All that to say that her school gives the option sophomore year of doubling up on Geometry/Algebra II. That's the only year they can double up. I don't see her going into a math/science field, but may encourage her to do this just in case. If she ends up not needing the extra math, she'll have the option of no math senior year. Just a thought:) I agree that I wouldn't move on without a solid foundation. Another option would be to work through summers, if you determined another year of math was necessary. You may not:)

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How bad is it to do a math sequence that begins with Algebra in freshman year?

 

I want to specifically address this question.  It is not bad at all to begin Algebra freshman year.  It is typical/normal/standard.  Strong math students may start it earlier.  This does not describe your dd and it is absolutely fine.  Un-fancy colleges will expect to see Pre-Calculus senior year HS.  Let that be your goal.

 

FWIW, I have a degree in math and CS.  My son is a strong math student and may major in CS in college.  We used MUS from K through Algebra and followed up with a different Algebra program (in 8th grade, but that does not matter).

 

I agree with the pp's that another year of Algebra would be beneficial.  I would not use TT as it is considered weak (as is MUS) and you do not want weak for a potential CS student.  I would suggest Lial or Larson or Jacob (our experience with Jacob Geometry was a disaster, but Jacob works well for certain students).  These are solid programs.  See if you can get them at your library or through inter-library loan to see if one would be better than the other.  I don't know anything about CLE so I won't comment on that.

 

My 2c.

 

 

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run her through  the Key to Fractions, Decimals and Key to Percents workbooks to be certain those are solid

 

This is a very good suggestion.  I volunteer as a math tutor for GED students.  The teacher says that the majority of students who struggle with Algebra do so because they are not solid on fractions, decimals, percents.  Does that describe your dd at all?

 

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 I would not use TT as it is considered weak (as is MUS) and you do not want weak for a potential CS student. 

 

Just figured I'd toss in again that my homeschooled guys used TT through Pre-Calc and did extremely well both on their SAT/ACT (top and tippy top scores respectively) and Calc directly afterward.

 

It isn't really the curriculum chosen.  It's whether the student understands what they are learning.  The clue that the OP needs to change is due to not passing the final.  Something is missing.  It just needs to be determined what that is and fixing it before proceeding.

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I think some people naturally reason well mathematically. Those people could learn math from pretty much any curriculum that covers the basics and understand what they're doing well enough to extrapolate it to more difficult problems. There are definitely people who used MUS all the way through and aced the SATs as well.

 

Other people, at the opposite end of the continuum, find mathematical reasoning so challenging that there probably won't be any curriculum that could teach them more than the most simple problems.

 

In the middle, there are people who do not naturally reason well enough to solve difficult problems, and yet can be taught. This is where programs that don't present sufficiently challenging problems, or present them with too many hints on how to solve them, and don't ever remove the crutches, can really fall down.

 

I do think TT is much better than a more challenging program which is not understood. But if she is planning on doing CS, I would be more inclined to consider a program such as Foersters (with math without borders, if you need the support) for a second go-round at algebra 1, unless you feel that it is inappropriately challenging for her.

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Just figured I'd toss in again that my homeschooled guys used TT through Pre-Calc and did extremely well both on their SAT/ACT (top and tippy top scores respectively) and Calc directly afterward.

 

It isn't really the curriculum chosen.  It's whether the student understands what they are learning.  The clue that the OP needs to change is due to not passing the final.  Something is missing.  It just needs to be determined what that is and fixing it before proceeding.

 

Good point.  I have also heard of students who used MUS throughout HS and did fine. 

 

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I just made both my boys run through Foeresters after MUS Algebra (one 9th, one 10th grade).  For my dd13, I am planning for her to complete most of MUS Algebra this year (8th), then enter ps and take algebra again there as a freshman.  None of my kids thus far have completed algebra before 9th grade.  So from my perspective its not unusual!  Ds15 is my stem kid (wants to go into physics or CS), and he had algebra in 9th.   I definitely think its worth a quick run-through of Foeresters (focusing on the word problems/application, especially on the topics she was comfortable on from MUS.)  However, if its too much, no harm done, just go back to MUS and do more pages on the topics she missed on the final, making sure she can teach those concepts back.  That route you're probably only set back a few weeks....and can proceed with previous plans.   (Foeresters was not a good fit for my oldest...he returned to MUS and has done really well thus far.)   One failed test isn't the end of the world...she'll be fine.  Just use it as an opportunity to solidify, however you decide to do it, either by reviewing and retesting or adding a more challenging curriculum and taking longer.  I vote for trying the longer version only because I got through a lot of advanced math and science courses strictly on my solid algebra skills!  (Those skills are likely to be more valuable than having had Calculus in high school, imo.)

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Thank you so much, everyone!  We've decided to print off the extra help sheets from the MUS website and go back and review each lesson to shore up any missing concepts - keeping an eye out for fraction, decimal, etc. holes as well.  If she is still struggling, we'll start over with a new algebra curriculum.  I'll be looking up each of your suggestions!   I believe you all are right that fully understanding it is way more important than pushing through too fast.  Thanks for confirming this for us.  :)

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My dd took Algebra in 8th grade and again in 9th because of all the reasons mentioned above. She was in a traditional school at the time and doing honors-level work in her other classes, but because she retook Algebra they put her in a class for kids who struggle with math.  She said the 9th grade teacher really taught the concepts and she made an easy A in the class because it was the second time around. It's made a world of difference in her math confidence.

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