Visited the district DE program

[Dmmetler]

The conclusion is "probably not a good fit yet, maybe in a couple of years".

 

Overall, it looks nicely run. Effectively, it's a group study center with teachers specializing in a range of fields who are there to assist. The high school classes are all test prep focused, with the idea that the kids effectively CLEP (although it's a high school level test) out of the core, but then do their actual credits at the college to box check. So, there would be no lab science (for example) taught in the high school component. The teachers also provide support for college classes, so usually what happens is that a student takes the college class 3 days a week, and works in a small group with the subject teacher and the other students in the class the other 2, which gives more support. If a student starts college classes earlier and has more time, they'll probably age out of that after the first 2 years of college classes when they've taken the core that the program expects, but by then, hopefully are able to be independent.

 

The middle school is "Cash strapped urban school". It's not as poor as some of the schools I've taught in, but both the school and the neighborhood surrounding it show signs of financial struggle. While the area right around the school and the college seems "clean", there was some tagging not far away that probably indicates some gang activity (I'm not as up on it as I used to be, since I no longer am either teaching in those schools or observing practicum students in them). Probably safe during the day, but I would be nervous about a young woman taking any night classes on the college campus.  The college campus seems nice enough, but is pretty definitely a commuter school, not a residential one.

 

 

The courses they offer are pretty much set in stone because the goal is to fulfill high school requirements (and if a student starts college classes earlier, they'd just end up graduating high school earlier, not getting to take extra college classes for free. Most students graduate high school 1-2 years after starting college classes. They can take up to 12 credits a semester. History is started when the student starts English at the college level, science when they start math.  Looking at the list of classes, I see a lot that wouldn't really be useful as college classes for DD (Non-major level science, college algebra, business calculus or non-calculus based statistics, etc), but would probably be useful high school level classes. English, history, foreign language, and performing/fine arts would all probably transfer fine and not be a problem.

 

However, the program coordinator said that they probably wouldn't accept DD yet, no matter how qualified she is on paper, because of concerns about liability and executive functioning. M0st of their students start at age 13-14 and start taking college classes at 15-16, and by that point, they're walking from the high school campus to the college classes on their own. They've never had a student start college classes before age 14. Because of the way the program is set up, a student who enters before 8th grade just ends up skipping the remaining grades, so while DD could, on paper, enter next year, she'd be skipping 3 grade levels and be officially a 9th grader (plus her earlier acceleration), and that's a big jump emotionally and socially. She doesn't think DD would have a problem with the fellow students, and the self-paced nature of the high school component actually makes it a fairly good fit for a younger child, but they'd be concerned about sending her to the college campus alone. 

 

She suggested we look into doing a "need-based" transfer to the middle school that the program is located in, with the "need" being that DD is ready for high school English and math classes beyond what is typically offered in middle schools, and then they could put DD in their self-paced classes for those two subjects, while she does a year or two of middle school classes in other areas, which would give the staff at the program a chance to see how she is on executive functioning (and, while she didn't say this, I can see a benefit in DD having to learn to navigate a smaller campus first, because the middle school would be a big change from homeschooling!) and then she'd be able to enter college classes when she moved into the program full-time when she's closer to the "normal" age. I really think the coordinator wants to make this work for DD-but even she commented that usually the "Really smart kids" go to the STEM magnet and take lots of AP courses or the IB magnet, not to their program. They get the kids who are the first to attend college in their families and don't see beyond the local state university, not the kids who are aiming for highly competitive universities.

 

 

DH likes the idea of sending DD to middle school as a transition. He never planned to homeschool as more than a short-term stopgap measure anyway.  I think DD would be eaten alive in that middle school. She not only is young for her grade, but she's physically young for her age, and she'd stand out demographically. I also think that if she's going to do high school math essentially by herself, it makes more sense to do it with AOPS than with a program that's just checking off the state standards as quickly as possible. I could see this program possibly being a good fit if she wants to graduate early and a cheap way to get validated credits, but I think it would be better for her to wait to apply until she's closer to the typical age, but then be able to start the college component ASAP. And, I really don't want to drive 3/4 of the way through the city in rush hour traffic in the morning every...single...day. And then do the round trip again every afternoon. That would be at least 2 hours, probably more like 3, of driving time for me daily. At this point, I don't think it's worth it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[8filltheheart]

Not that you asked for opinions, but after reading what you posted, I think that the administrator was really telling you in public school -correctness-speak that you should not send your dd through their program.   She is 100% correct that the bright kids are going to take APs and IBs.   The quality of courses that they are offering "free" through the CC are not going to be top-notch quality courses, nor are they going to be filled to top students. 

 

I guess I don't understand why you wouldn't have her go through AP levels at home and re-evaluate your next step after she has topped out courses that are able to completed at home.  AP courses are going to be better than "Non-major level science, college algebra, business calculus or non-calculus based statistics,"

 

[Dmmetler]

Not that you asked for opinions, but after reading what you posted, I think that the administrator was really telling you in public school -correctness-speak that you should not send your dd through their program.   She is 100% correct that the bright kids are going to take APs and IBs.   The quality of courses that they are offering "free" through the CC are not going to be top-notch quality courses, nor are they going to be filled to top students. 

 

I guess I don't understand why you wouldn't have her go through AP levels at home and re-evaluate your next step after she has topped out courses that are able to completed at home.  AP courses are going to be better than "Non-major level science, college algebra, business calculus or non-calculus based statistics,"

 

I suspect that's where we'll end up. But it won't give DD the community that she so desires, and it won't reassure DH who is concerned about doing high school at home (I'm certified through 8th grade for all areas with a math speciality, but after 8th, the only subject I'm certified to teach is music, and I think one major reason DH was willing to accept homeschooling at all is that I'm much more highly qualified than almost any elementary teacher). 

 

As far as the STEM magnet goes, when DD had high enough EXPLORE math and science scores to qualify at age 8, I figured it probably wasn't the best fit for her at age 14.  AP scores are low (but have a lot of classes offered and a lot of kids taking them), ACT and SAT scores aren't great. It's probably the best high school in the district, and it makes it on the US News listings, but it's not exactly a great school. If it were something the level of Thomas Jefferson High school or Bronx Science, that would be different.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[8filltheheart]

I suspect that's where we'll end up. I was kind of hoping that I'd find a community for DD. She's really starting to struggle with the "not having peers" thing. DH has also never quite been on board with homeschooling long-term. I think one major reason he was willing to support it is that I'm certified to teach elementary, but that's not the case for high school.

 

 

I think it is unrealistic to hope to find peers in any of the academic settings you have described.  If anything, she will feel less connected to those in her age group in those formal classroom settings.

[Kathy in Richmond]

This DE program doesn't sound like a good fit at all, neither for academics nor for finding peers. The STEM magnet with low scores doesn't sound so great, either.

 

I understand the desire to find "kids like me," especially in the preteen & teen years. Outside of having the occasional family like 8Fill's living nearby, my kids also yearned for friends that "got them"

 

I'd strongly urge you to take a look at the summer program offerings listed on the Hoagie's Gifted and CTY Cogito websites now that your girl is getting older. Even if the academic fit is a side interest instead of your dd's herpetology passion, she may very well benefit from the lasting friendships formed at some of those camps. That's how we solved the problem until our two kids reached the college years. Some of those friendships are still going strong today. Yes, some of the camps were a financial stretch, but in the long run, they were worth their weight in gold!

 

As for academics, try not to worry about *how* you'll do high school. There are SO many terrific outsourcing resources (PA Homeschoolers, AoPS, EPGY, etc, etc) and your daughter is smart enough to self-teach some areas, too. You can do it! Facilitating & learning alongside of her in areas you're interested in yourself can be great fun.

 

There's more to it than academics anyway. Having your daughter home during the teen years will provide lots of informal opportunities to just talk about what's going on in her life without the rushing around & lack of time you'd experience if you put her into a formal school program during those ages. In retrospect, that's what I most loved about those years. :001_smile:

[Crimson Wife]

I think what you're looking at to find a peer group is true early college like Mary Baldwin PEG or CSULA EEP, moving to Reno to attend Davidson Academy, or trying to get a merit scholarship that could be used at an elite prep school. All of which are a few years down the road if she's 9 or 10.

[musicianmom]

Would one of the girls' prep schools in your city be willing to work with you in designing a specialized program for your dd? It seems like at least one of them would jump at the chance to get a kid like yours, for bragging rights if nothing else.