Ancient Literature 9th grade list - need help and figuring out credits

[Homeschoolmom3]

This high school thing ...is new to me and having difficulty making sure that I have enough covered and to determine where to include certain books.  :(  I have searched intensely on past threads so I hate to duplicate but my list isn't quite the same as everyone else.  So for 9th grade my son is taking a Biblical Archaeology class for History which is considered a one credit course along with a few other reads including:  Unwrapping the Pharaohs, Unveiling the Kings of Israel, The Archaeology Book.  However, on top of that I have this list of books we are reading along side and trying to determine whether they should be in Bible OT Survey  (1/2 or 1 credit) or under Literature (1 credit course) so here it goes...

 

Bible reads for OT survey credit for the year:

Genesis- Malachi

Genesis Finding Our Roots

Adam and His Kin

Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers study guides

 

Is this enough for a one credit course?

 

Other Biblical reads:  Radical, Case for a Creator, and other self help books (too many various ones to mention)

 

Ancient Literature and others included:

Golden Goblet- read

Cat of Bubastes- read

Epic of Gilgamesh- read

Holy War - Bunyan- read

Codes of Hammurabi- read

Screwtape Letters- read

Illiad- (7 wks)  beginning

Odyssey (4 wks)

Last Days of Socrates (2 wks)

Plutarch's Lives (2 wks)

Aeneid - Virgil (3 wks)

 

Have scheduled to complete these in 33 weeks and that leaves me with only about 4 weeks to decide on the following below or could change the ones above that we haven't read yet.

 

Now I am debating on the next ones and trying to figure out which should be done first if we have time from the list above.  The Histories (Herodotus), Medea (Euripides), The Republic (Plato), Aristophanes (Comedies), The Gift of the Jews, or Till We Have Faces  Probably only have time for one and wanted to read it in the correct order so am needing to decide before finishing the Odyssey.

 

Along with the Literature he is taking Grammar with Abeka 12.

 

Other classes taking this year: 

 

Rhetoric   (online teacher CAP said it was definitely a 1 credit course)

Ancient Literature (see above)      enough for 1 credit

Biblical Archaeology (see above)     1 credit

Algebra II (Derekowens)    1 credit

Apologia Chemistry (along with other reads)  1 credit

Latin III (online Potters)  1 credit

German I (online self paced)  1 credit

Bible (OT survey see above)  1/2 or 1 credit?

 

Does this sound good?  Also in helps with the Ancient Lit list am looking for ones that do not have too much horrible themes such as in Oedipus and Sophocles.  Thanks so much for your help!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sebastian (a lady)]

I think of Golden Gobblet and Cat of Bubastes as books that are more elementary or middle school level.

 

Antigone is very good and has themes of right action. The Eumenides discusses vengeance vs justice. Both are quite short.

 

Even Oedipus is not a graphic depiction of an improper relationship. It is more about the inescapable nature of fate. (IE It's not depicted in any more detail than the story of Ruben or Judah and Tamar.)

[Homeschoolmom3]

Thanks for your reply...I know they are not viewed as rigorous but read anyway for historical content. Was thinking of Eumenides but what other long selction would you consider? Do you think that is enough for one credit? Thanks

[Space station]

Golden goblet and cat of butastes are definitely young for high school reading; my dd read them in 4th grade. I mean, he could still read them if you want him to, but they won't take very long or add that much. I also don't see how screwtape letters fits in for ancient lit. It is a terrific thing to have him read, but I'm not sure it belongs there since it is a conversation between 2 demons set in the 20th century. I'd take those out of ancient lit and add one or 2 of the others from your optional list instead.

[Homeschoolmom3]

Would that be enough to just add one more ? Which would you choose?

[Space station]

Here is what is on the syllabus for the well trained mind academy:

The Holy Bible, NIV or New King James translation

Epic of Gilgamesh, any translation

Homer, The Illiad, translated by Richmond Lattimore or Robert Fagles

Homer, The Odyssey, translated by Richmond Lattimore or Robert Fagles

Virgil, The Aeneid, translated by Robert Fagles or Robert Fiztgerald

Aescylus, The Oresteia, translated by Robert Fagles or Richmond Lattimore

Sophocles, Three Theban Plays, translated by Robert Fagles

Euripides, Medea, any translation

Aristophanes, Birds, translated by David Barrett or Alan Sommerstein

Plutarch, Lives

Ovid, Metamorphoses, translated by A.D. Melville or Allen Mandelbaum

Plato, Republic, translated by Robin Waterfield

Aristotle, Poetics, any translation

Lucretius, On the Nature of Things. Translated by William Leonard or John Godwin

Aurelius, Meditations, any translation

Augustine, The Confessions, any translation

 

Fulfills 1 high school credit in world literature or English.

Designed for grades 9-12

[Lori D.]

Space Station made the suggestion I was going to make -- compare with several other programs doing ancients and find a nice average. ;)

 

However, JMO -- the WTM Academy booklist looks quite rigorous to me. That's 18 works, and at least 6 are STOUT and LONG. I'd also compare with a few other programs. Smarr Ancients is also quite rigorous, with 15 works. Omnibus I (ancients) by Veritas Press has 8 works (5 Literature, 3 3 histories/other). My Father's World English portion of high school Ancients is really LIGHT -- 4 classic Lit. works + 2 "not Lit" works (biography of Eric Liddell and Cat of Bubastes).

 

Another thing to bear in mind is your individual student's ability, reading speed, and how deep you plan to go in the works. For example, we only managed 8 ancient classics (and we were working hard and doing a good WTM type of study) when DSs were 8th and 9th grade. We probably could have managed 10-12 ancient works later on high school.

 

What is it exactly that you are doing with the works, or want to do with the works? Do you have some guides to help for digging into the works with discussion and writing? Are you doing some background research and comparisons with other works and themes? That slows down the pace, when you are discussing and writing about Literature. Or is it just reading the works? In that case, you get through more works if all you need is to check off works on a list.

 

Finally, another way to plan is to make your list, and star a few things that you could drop if needed along the way, if you find you are getting short on time at the end of each semester. A rough estimate: 1 English credit is usually composed of about 1/2 Literature and 1/2 Composition Writing, and because both take more time than some other subjects, you want to keep one eye on your time. A solid average amount of time for 1 high school credit is 150 hours -- the minimum is 120 hours, and 180 hours is the maximum.

 

This may help you keep perspective for both your English and your Bible credits:

120-150-180 hours = 1.0 credit

.90-115-135 hours = 0.75 credit

.80-100-120 hours = 0.66 credit

.60 - 75 - 90 hours = 0.5 credit

.40 - 50 - 60 hours = 0.33 credit

.30 - 40 - 45 hours = 0.25 credit

 

 

9th grade son is taking a Biblical Archaeology class for History… a one credit course

- along with a few other reads

- Unwrapping the Pharaohs

- Unveiling the Kings of Israel

- The Archaeology Book

 

Bible reads for OT survey credit for the year:

- Genesis- Malachi

- Genesis Finding Our Roots

- Adam and His Kin

- Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers study guides

 

Ancient Literature and others included:

- Golden Goblet- read

- Cat of Bubastes- read

- Epic of Gilgamesh- read

- Holy War - Bunyan- read

- Codes of Hammurabi- read

- Screwtape Letters- read

- Illiad- (7 wks)  beginning

- Odyssey (4 wks)

- Last Days of Socrates (2 wks)

- Plutarch's Lives (2 wks)

- Aeneid - Virgil (3 wks)

 

Just me, but I REALLY dislike putting very much non-fiction into a Literature program. Because Literature is read, analyzed and discussed SO differently from History, I always kept the vast majority of essays, biographies and non-fiction as part of History and NOT part of the Literature for the English credit.

 

As for the works listed under Bible -- are you doing them from a Religious Studies perspective, or a Literature perspective? If for a Bible study type of course, then count as Bible. Again, JMO, I would only count it as Literature if you were specifically doing a "Literature of the Bible" type of study.

 

Again, just me, but I would probably:

- count Code of Hammurabi and Last Days of Plutarch as part of the History credit

- count Golden Goblet & Cat of Bubastes as free reading

- save Holy War for another year for Medieval reading

- drop the Abeka Grammar (unless you absolutely need it for some reason)

 

Which would leave this for the Literature portion of your English credit:

- Screwtape Letters

- Illiad (7 weeks)

- Odyssey (plan on 5-6 weeks)

- Aeneid (pan on 7-8 weeks -- it is LONGER than the Iliad)

- 2-4 comedies of Aristophanes

- Till We Have Faces

 

Add:

- Greek and Roman myths

 

I would think that would be a very do-able amount of Literature for 1 credit of Literature. If you find you need more works, you could do some of Republic. Or, try Antigone (third in the Oedipus cycle), which has some GREAT discussion on moral dilemma: love and faithfulness to family, duty and moral obligation vs. authority decreeing a vengeful and immoral law; natural law vs. man-made law; civil disobedience; and concepts of citizenship.

 

I actually think the Oedipus cycle is NOT horrible, but really wrestles with themes that are HUGE throughout all of Literature. Oedipus the King has themes of fate vs. free will, hubris (pride leading to downfall), the tragic hero, sight vs. blindness (very same theme in Shakespeare's King Lear). Oedipus at Colonus wrestles with themes of fate, guilt, and what happens when proper boundaries and identities are not maintained. Antigone I described above.

 

 

I am debating on the next ones:

- The Histories (Herodotus)

- Medea (Euripides)

- The Republic (Plato)

- Aristophanes (Comedies)

- The Gift of the Jews

- Till We Have Faces

 

… am looking for ones that do not have too much horrible themes such as in Oedipus and Sophocles

 

I would avoid Medea if you're concerned about horrible themes. The play is a revenge play, telling of Medea avenging her husband Jason's betrayal by dumping Medea to marry the king's daughter (which would put Jason in line for the throne). Medea debates, and then goes for the vengence, killing Jason's new bride  with a poisoned robe, slaying her sons, and flying off with their bodies in the chariot of the sun god Helios.

 

 

Along with the Literature he is taking Grammar with Abeka 12… Other classes taking this year: 

 

Rhetoric   (online teacher CAP said it was definitely a 1 credit course)

Ancient Literature (see above)      enough for 1 credit

Biblical Archaeology (see above)     1 credit

Algebra II (Derekowens)    1 credit

Apologia Chemistry (along with other reads)  1 credit

Latin III (online Potters)  1 credit

German I (online self paced)  1 credit

Bible (OT survey see above)  1/2 or 1 credit?

 

 

JMO, but this seems very heavy for a 9th grader:

1 credit = English: Rhetoric

1 credit = English: Literature

1 credit = History: Biblical Archeology

1 credit = Math: Algebra 2

1 credit = Science = Chemistry

1 credit = Foreign Language: Latin III

1 credit = Foreign Language: German

0.5 to 1.0 credit = Bible

 

Plus Abeka Grammar.

 

That is 7.5 to 8 credits. Two credits for English. Two credits for two different Foreign Languages. Two advanced classes (Algebra 2 and Chemistry). Is DS an advanced, motivated student? Are these classes he really wants and is excited about? Is there a reason for the double credits in English and Foreign Language?

 

Four classes are online. Has DS done online classes previously? Does he have good self-discipline and study skills?

 

What does DS get to do for self-discovery or interest in the way of extracurriculars or an Elective? Will this class load allow him time for these things?

 

For thinking/planning ahead for the rest of your high school credits, you may want to balance out a little next semester or next year with some Fine Arts, Computer, and Electives. A solid college-prep list typically includes:

 

4 credits = English

4 credits = Math

3-4 credits = Science

2-4 credits = Social Studies (History, Geography, Government, Economics)

2-4 credits = Foreign Language

1 credit = Fine Arts

4-8 credits = Electives (examples: Health, PE, Computer, Vocational-Tech, personal interest, additional Fine Arts credits, additional "academic" electives)

22-28 credits total

 

And time for things like: extracurriculars, volunteer / community service hours, career exploration, PSAT / SAT / ACT testing and prep, possible AP coursework/tests, possible dual enrollment or CLEP prep and testing, etc. Just a few things to think through as you plan! BEST of luck, whatever you decide. :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Homeschoolmom3]

Thank you so much for your replies!!!  Lori thanks for being so detailed in answering all of my questions!  I didn't want to overload the poor child but some things just fell that way.  He is very bright and motivated wants to start taking community college courses next year in hopes of getting alot of the general ed courses before leaving high school.  He has taken many courses online through various places.  He was enrolled at VPSA but it got to be too excessive and him wanting to get all A's plus wanting to take other classes of interest was not going to happen if we stuck with their plan. 

 

I wasn't planning on two English's but didn't know how to address that since I wanted him to have a solid writing program.  I am a big Abeka fan in regards to grammar only and wanted to make sure he was solid on all of his grammar before moving on to other things.  I guess that is why I didn't want to overload on too many books to get through with such a tough course load this year.  He wanted to start German this year even though I had told him he could start taking that after he took AP Latin next year. 

 

Thanks for the other ideas for their ancient studies I have been sorting through those for the past year and just couldn't decide what was a happy medium?  Wanted to make sure we covered enough but how much?  I appreciate your ideas on what to include and where.  Didn't want to miss anything important...tough being my first high schooler...:) 

 

In my notes we have already read the books listed as (read) in what he has already done this term.  So I am trying to finalize the next 24 weeks.  With the Illiad and the Odyssey was planning on watching the videos of the Teaching Company by Vandiver and was going to have him work through the Omnibus text with these.  Omnibus text with The Screwtape Letters and Aeneid.   The others planning on just reading through and discussing.  Probably will have one paper on each work since he is writing so much in his other class.  Any other thoughts?

 

He is very involved in our youth group at church and does alot of outreach programs, missions, and camps.  He is in two bands at our church as well.  Plays in the HS worship band and is interning under the worship pastor at our church. 

 

Thanks so much for your time and responses!!!!!

[Kristie4]

The Aenied in three weeks- in my opinion there is no point.  It seems like a sprint with no depth.  That is a big, meaty book.  My ds could have read it in that time, or much less, but I don't think we could have 'done' much with it.  

[Serenade]

Space Station made the suggestion I was going to make -- compare with several other programs doing ancients and find a nice average. ;)

 

However, JMO -- the WTM Academy booklist looks quite rigorous to me. That's 18 works, and at least 6 are STOUT and LONG. I'd also compare with a few other programs. Smarr Ancients is also quite rigorous, with 15 works. Omnibus I (ancients) by Veritas Press has 8 works (5 Literature, 3 3 histories/other). My Father's World English portion of high school Ancients is really LIGHT -- 4 classic Lit. works + 2 "not Lit" works (biography of Eric Liddell and Cat of Bubastes).

 

Another thing to bear in mind is your individual student's ability, reading speed, and how deep you plan to go in the works. For example, we only managed 8 ancient classics (and we were working hard and doing a good WTM type of study) when DSs were 8th and 9th grade. We probably could have managed 10-12 ancient works later on high school.

 

What is it exactly that you are doing with the works, or want to do with the works? Do you have some guides to help for digging into the works with discussion and writing? Are you doing some background research and comparisons with other works and themes? That slows down the pace, when you are discussing and writing about Literature. Or is it just reading the works? In that case, you get through more works if all you need is to check off works on a list.

 

Finally, another way to plan is to make your list, and star a few things that you could drop if needed along the way, if you find you are getting short on time at the end of each semester. A rough estimate: 1 English credit is usually composed of about 1/2 Literature and 1/2 Composition Writing, and because both take more time than some other subjects, you want to keep one eye on your time. A solid average amount of time for 1 high school credit is 150 hours -- the minimum is 120 hours, and 180 hours is the maximum.

 

This may help you keep perspective for both your English and your Bible credits:

120-150-180 hours = 1.0 credit

.90-115-135 hours = 0.75 credit

.80-100-120 hours = 0.66 credit

.60 - 75 - 90 hours = 0.5 credit

.40 - 50 - 60 hours = 0.33 credit

.30 - 40 - 45 hours = 0.25 credit

 

 

 

Just me, but I REALLY dislike putting very much non-fiction into a Literature program. Because Literature is read, analyzed and discussed SO differently from History, I always kept the vast majority of essays, biographies and non-fiction as part of History and NOT part of the Literature for the English credit.

 

As for the works listed under Bible -- are you doing them from a Religious Studies perspective, or a Literature perspective? If for a Bible study type of course, then count as Bible. Again, JMO, I would only count it as Literature if you were specifically doing a "Literature of the Bible" type of study.

 

Again, just me, but I would probably:

- count Code of Hammurabi and Last Days of Plutarch as part of the History credit

- count Golden Goblet & Cat of Bubastes as free reading

- save Holy War for another year for Medieval reading

- drop the Abeka Grammar (unless you absolutely need it for some reason)

 

Which would leave this for the Literature portion of your English credit:

- Screwtape Letters

- Illiad (7 weeks)

- Odyssey (plan on 5-6 weeks)

- Aeneid (pan on 7-8 weeks -- it is LONGER than the Iliad)

- 2-4 comedies of Aristophanes

- Till We Have Faces

 

Add:

- Greek and Roman myths

 

I would think that would be a very do-able amount of Literature for 1 credit of Literature. If you find you need more works, you could do some of Republic. Or, try Antigone (third in the Oedipus cycle), which has some GREAT discussion on moral dilemma: love and faithfulness to family, duty and moral obligation vs. authority decreeing a vengeful and immoral law; natural law vs. man-made law; civil disobedience; and concepts of citizenship.

 

I actually think the Oedipus cycle is NOT horrible, but really wrestles with themes that are HUGE throughout all of Literature. Oedipus the King has themes of fate vs. free will, hubris (pride leading to downfall), the tragic hero, sight vs. blindness (very same theme in Shakespeare's King Lear). Oedipus at Colonus wrestles with themes of fate, guilt, and what happens when proper boundaries and identities are not maintained. Antigone I described above.

 

 

 

 

I would avoid Medea if you're concerned about horrible themes. The play is a revenge play, telling of Medea avenging her husband Jason's betrayal by dumping Medea to marry the king's daughter (which would put Jason in line for the throne). Medea debates, and then goes for the vengence, killing Jason's new bride  with a poisoned robe, slaying her sons, and flying off with their bodies in the chariot of the sun god Helios.

 

 

 

 

JMO, but this seems very heavy for a 9th grader:

1 credit = English: Rhetoric

1 credit = English: Literature

1 credit = History: Biblical Archeology

1 credit = Math: Algebra 2

1 credit = Science = Chemistry

1 credit = Foreign Language: Latin III

1 credit = Foreign Language: German

0.5 to 1.0 credit = Bible

 

Plus Abeka Grammar.

 

That is 7.5 to 8 credits. Two credits for English. Two credits for two different Foreign Languages. Two advanced classes (Algebra 2 and Chemistry). Is DS an advanced, motivated student? Are these classes he really wants and is excited about? Is there a reason for the double credits in English and Foreign Language?

 

Four classes are online. Has DS done online classes previously? Does he have good self-discipline and study skills?

 

What does DS get to do for self-discovery or interest in the way of extracurriculars or an Elective? Will this class load allow him time for these things?

 

For thinking/planning ahead for the rest of your high school credits, you may want to balance out a little next semester or next year with some Fine Arts, Computer, and Electives. A solid college-prep list typically includes:

 

4 credits = English

4 credits = Math

3-4 credits = Science

2-4 credits = Social Studies (History, Geography, Government, Economics)

2-4 credits = Foreign Language

1 credit = Fine Arts

4-8 credits = Electives (examples: Health, PE, Computer, Vocational-Tech, personal interest, additional Fine Arts credits, additional "academic" electives)

22-28 credits total

 

And time for things like: extracurriculars, volunteer / community service hours, career exploration, PSAT / SAT / ACT testing and prep, possible AP coursework/tests, possible dual enrollment or CLEP prep and testing, etc. Just a few things to think through as you plan! BEST of luck, whatever you decide. :) Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

What a fantastic post.  I'm not the OP, but this is very helpful to me, too.  I really appreciate you sharing the reasoning behind your suggestions.

[Serenade]

 

German I (online self paced)  1 credit

 

 

 

Totally off topic, but what are you using for German?

[Homeschoolmom3]

Serenade ~

 

I'm using The Rolling Acres School....we are not Catholic and therefore have just omitted the prayer part that they memorize each week.  We are in week 9 I believe, and my son seems to like it well.  He likes that it is self paced and therefore can go at his own pace.  His Latin III is online through Potters so it is pretty demanding and this worked out good for his schedule.  It is set up by weeks using the text German Made Simple.  There are quizzes and tests all done through them and set up so all I have to do is check them.  The videos are great for sound to make sure he has the accent and pronunciation down right.  With having to outsource his other classes we couldn't afford even if we wanted to another online course so the price is right at $35 a semester.  If you want to meet with the instructor one day a week and have her grade his work it bumps up to $150 a semester still not bad but we just chose the cheaper route this year.  HTH  :)

 

[Homeschoolmom3]

Kristie~

 

Thanks for the thought on the Aeneid I was going off of what VPSA Omnibus, had suggested for a completion time.  Will give that one some more thought.  I think I'll just start digging in them and just see how much we can get through.  I think I'll use the time factor suggested and just work on it a given amount of time each week and just see what happens.  There is so much discrepancy on how many major works to accomplish in a year! 

 

 

With regards to TWTM list the great book list is meant in my understanding to include History with the Literature and therefore why the list is long.  I know it mentions not to feel you need to complete all of them I believe in her book she mentions that 8 should be the minimum and 16 would be the stellar amount.  Her book has definitately been helpful but it is nice to hear of others who have already been there as well!  That is why I wasn't sure what I should include given that he is already doing another History and am just looking for the Literature aspect of it.  I guess since we have already read the ones I listed, we can't go back but didn't want to mess up the rest of the year.  :-/

 

Thanks for your insights!  Any other favorites or must reads besides what I have listed and of course what Lori suggested?  Don't want to omit anything of great importance!  Thanks again!

 

 

 

[Kristie4]

C.S. Lewis's Till We Have Faces- we loved this in our ancients year!

[Homeschoolmom3]

Sounds good...thanks! I have heard good things:)

[MrsMe]

I'm not understand how MFW Ancients is light.  They're also using Epic of Gilgamesh, Bulfinch's Greek & Roman Mythology and Illiad and Odyssey.  ??

 

 

[Lori D.]

I'm not understand how MFW Ancients is light.  They're also using Epic of Gilgamesh, Bulfinch's Greek & Roman Mythology and Illiad and Odyssey.  ??

 

I meant no offense. :)

 

I was speaking in the context of what the OP was outlining for what she was thinking of putting together for an classic Ancient Literature list, and comparing with other classical high school Ancient Literature programs. Not being personally familiar with the program, I could easily be missing something. :)

 

From the MFW website, it looks like the English credit for Ancients is composed of those 4 works (Gilgamesh, Bulfinch, Iliad, Odyssey), a biography (Eric Liddell), and a historical fiction (Cat of Bubastes), plus the supplement for Grammar and Writing. The Eric Liddell (biography) and historical fiction work not typically part of a high school literature program, but would more typically be used as free reading… possibly as history supplement.

 

That leaves 4 traditional classic works of Literature used at the high school level, which is light in comparison to other programs covering ancient classics for the Literature portion English credit (see my post above), which range from 8 to 18 works of Literature.

 

Perhaps the MFW focus is to go very deep with just a few works? In contrast, the WTM online Lit. course seems to have a focus of going very broad with many works… Different focus for different folks. :)

 

Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Lori D.]

… I didn't want to overload the poor child but some things just fell that way… He was enrolled at VPSA but it got to be too excessive and him wanting to get all A's plus wanting to take other classes of interest was not going to happen if we stuck with their plan. 

 

Esp. since it's early in high school, that is wise to take the "long" view and be careful about burning out in 9th grade. :)

 

I admire DS's goals, but meaning this with all respect and very gently, now is the time to focus on learning how to learn and to think, rather than grades. (That's actually a great *life* skill -- focus is on developing character and quality workmanship, rather than the "praise of men". ;) )Now is the time to practice going deep and make connections -- to really "chew" on the classics. It's also a time to learn study skills, and character traits such as self-discipline and perseverance. And it's the time to explore interests and options. High school is a tricky balance of all three.

 

…He is very bright and motivated wants to start taking community college courses next year in hopes of getting alot of the general ed courses before leaving high school. 

 

This is another one of those tricky balance areas, and also requires a lot of research to know if this is actually the best option or not. There are a lot of threads on the pros/cons and things to think through about dual enrollment linked in post #1 of the pinned thread at the top of the high school board "Starting High School, Outsourcing… Dual Enrollment -- links to past threads here!"

 

… for their ancient studies I have been sorting through those for the past year and just couldn't decide what was a happy medium?  Wanted to make sure we covered enough but how much?

 

Since DS has such a heavy load, and the focus for English this year is 1 credit of Writing/Composition, what about just 0.5 of Literature this year? This would be a good amount for 0.5 credit:

 

Epic of Gilgamesh- read

Holy War - Bunyan- read

Screwtape Letters- read

Illiad

Odyssey

 

And if you really need one last work to finish off the semester, pick something shorter to fill in -- some Greek myths, or Till We Have Faces (be sure to check out the Peter Kreeft lecture on it!).

 

I wasn't planning on two English's but didn't know how to address that since I wanted him to have a solid writing program.  I am a big Abeka fan in regards to grammar only and wanted to make sure he was solid on all of his grammar before moving on to other things.  I guess that is why I didn't want to overload on too many books to get through with such a tough course load this year.

 

It's great to get a solid foundation in Grammar, but realize that it is ultimately mean to be used as a tool for Writing, speaking, and in learning Foreign Language. Most students have as much Grammar-as-a-separate-subject as they need by the end of 8th grade, so in high school, Grammar is now actually used in Writing. I'm sure the Rhetoric course from CAP is giving DS plenty of opportunity to put that Grammar to good use. ;)

 

I'd still recommend dropping the Abeka Grammar. If DS has some huge gaping holes (which is unlikely), then just remediate those specifically, and get on with *using* the Grammar in the context of Writing and learning Foreign Language. Just me. :)

 

BEST of luck, as you plan! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

[MrsMe]

I meant no offense. :)

 

I was speaking in the context of what the OP was outlining for what she was thinking of putting together for an classic Ancient Literature list, and comparing with other classical high school Ancient Literature programs. Not being personally familiar with the program, I could easily be missing something. :)

 

From the MFW website, it looks like the English credit for Ancients is composed of those 4 works (Gilgamesh, Bulfinch, Iliad, Odyssey), a biography (Eric Liddell), and a historical fiction (Cat of Bubastes), plus the supplement for Grammar and Writing. The Eric Liddell (biography) and historical fiction work not typically part of a high school literature program, but would more typically be used as free reading… possibly as history supplement.

 

That leaves 4 traditional classic works of Literature used at the high school level, which is light in comparison to other programs covering ancient classics for the Literature portion English credit (see my post above), which range from 8 to 18 works of Literature.

 

Perhaps the MFW focus is to go very deep with just a few works? In contrast, the WTM online Lit. course seems to have a focus of going very broad with many works… Different focus for different folks. :)

 

Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

Oh, none taken!  I haven't done it, and found this particular thread in general, since I'm trying to plan for next year - 9th grade and was searching topics.  So when you thought it was light, I needed to know why. I feel like I'm trying to choose from a needle in a haystack on what we should be doing or not doing. ;)  However on that note, I have to say I was a little surprised by Eric Liddell, although I can't get a grasp on how they're using it.

 

I just have no clue what we're supposed to be doing for 9th and it's stressing me out. So really? At least 8 works of literature?  I'm learning new things all the time.   Anyway, I have no idea about MFW - or what's needed for hs for that matter. ;)  Now I'm even more stressed. 

 

Edited to add: FWIW, It looks as though they're using the Bible (reading all O.T.), Epic of Gilgamesh, Cat of Bubastes, Bulfinch, Illiad & Odyssey for English.  Who knows.  It all gives me a headache. ;)

 

[Serenade]

Serenade ~

 

I'm using The Rolling Acres School....we are not Catholic and therefore have just omitted the prayer part that they memorize each week.  We are in week 9 I believe, and my son seems to like it well.  He likes that it is self paced and therefore can go at his own pace.  His Latin III is online through Potters so it is pretty demanding and this worked out good for his schedule.  It is set up by weeks using the text German Made Simple.  There are quizzes and tests all done through them and set up so all I have to do is check them.  The videos are great for sound to make sure he has the accent and pronunciation down right.  With having to outsource his other classes we couldn't afford even if we wanted to another online course so the price is right at $35 a semester.  If you want to meet with the instructor one day a week and have her grade his work it bumps up to $150 a semester still not bad but we just chose the cheaper route this year.  HTH  :)

Thanks so much for sharing this. I have not heard of this option, and it sounds like a good choice.

[Lori D.]

Oh, none taken!  I haven't done it, and found this particular thread in general, since I'm trying to plan for next year - 9th grade and was searching topics.  So when you thought it was light, I needed to know why. I feel like I'm trying to choose from a needle in a haystack on what we should be doing or not doing. ;)  However on that note, I have to say I was a little surprised by Eric Liddell, although I can't get a grasp on how they're using it.

 

I just have no clue what we're supposed to be doing for 9th and it's stressing me out. So really? At least 8 works of literature?  I'm learning new things all the time.   Anyway, I have no idea about MFW - or what's needed for hs for that matter. ;)  Now I'm even more stressed. 

 

Edited to add: FWIW, It looks as though they're using the Bible (reading all O.T.), Epic of Gilgamesh, Cat of Bubastes, Bulfinch, Illiad & Odyssey for English.  Who knows.  It all gives me a headache. ;)

 

 

Aarrggghh! I had a big response for you, and the computer ate it!  :crying:

 

I guess to sum it up, I would point you to post #2 of the past thread, "High school curriculum: where do I start?" to help walk you through the process of making a high school plan, and questions to ask yourself to help you select curricula. Also, there are some good ideas on getting started with high school in the threads in the "Getting Started" section of the pinned thread at the top of the high school board: "Starting High School, Outsourcing… Tests… links to past threads here!"

 

Ug. I'm going to bed now. :(

[MrsMe]

Thanks Lori. I'll check the links.  I'd LOL, but I know that really, really stinks. :cursing:

[Homeschoolmom3]

Lori~

 

Thanks so much for your detailed response and taking time to help us HS newbies:) good thoughts, will think on them. I guess if we don't finish enough works will just give him a half credit but would that look bad? Decisions~

 

His interests these days besides music are language and religious studies. I guess his course load shows that :)

[Homeschoolmom3]

MrsMe~

 

You can use the Bible as literary works as listed in WTM but since we are studying them in depth I decided to count it as a Bible credit instead. HTH. :) Its hard deciding what to choose I know...start stressing on how I only have 4 more years.....AH!!!

[Lori D.]

 I guess if we don't finish enough works will just give him a half credit but would that look bad?

 

Not at all. Since you'll also have 1.0 credit for Composition, no, 0.5 credit Literature would be fine. That actually puts you over the usual 1.0 credit of English (which is usually 1/2 composition/writing, 1/2 lit), so you're in "bonus round" territory. ;)

[3in9th]

Since I live in a state that used to require outside diploma programs, I'll share what one of them looks like:

 

English (which would include your class, I believe):

 

In order to complete the minimum requirement for English, a student must meet all of the following each year:
___ Read 25 books OR a literature anthology and 15 books OR 10 books of the Bible and 15 books.
___ Read at least 3 classics.
___ Write at least 4 compositions.
___ Write a composition that is at least 10 pages (2500 words) long.
___ Keep rough drafts of your compositions which show that punctuation, usage, and/or grammatical errors were corrected
in the process of writing these compositions or work through over 1/4 of a language or grammar textbook or log at least 45
daily entries of work in language and grammar study.
___ Give at least one speech during the year to a group outside the immediate family.

 

As far as how they break down credits:

 

In order to get a full year’s credit for a course you must do at least one of the following alternatives. Check which ones apply:
Course Title:
___ Over two-thirds of a textbook.
___ 120 daily logged entries.
___ 120 hours of logged study.
___ 10 page (2500 word) research paper.*
___ College course.
___ Passed AP Exam.
___ Other:

 

In order to get a half year’s credit for a course you must do at least one of the following alternatives. Check which apply:
Course Title:
___ Over one-third of a textbook.
___ 60 daily logged entries.
___ 60 hours of logged study.
___ Other.

 

 

Hope this helps.