Pre-Algebra for a 4th grader or Am I nuts

[Leav97]

I have a 4th grader that is just starting MM 5B.  She's bored.  So much is repetitive or she's already made the leap to the next step.  She over heard a conversation between DH and myself in September about what to use after MM.  She asked to start Dolciani Pre-Algebra NOW! So we did.  Twice a week for ~30 minutes while still doing MM M-F.  It's not fast progress in the Pre-A because of the time but she's loving it.  New concepts (exponents) are explained in 3 pages instead of 20.  We're only about halfway through the first Chapter though.

 

Is there a huge roadblock waiting around the corner?  Am I nuts?

[crazyforlatin]

If there is a roadblock, it's easy to remedy it by going back to MM. I haven't used Dolciani, although I do own it, and it's what I would have used had AOPS Pre-A not worked out. It's straightforward, much like MM, but goes at a faster pace.

[desertflower]

Good going mom! If she's ready then she's ready. :)

[bibiche]

Good for her. We started prealgebra (AoPS) this year (4th) too, and DS really likes it. Here's to making the curriculum fit the child and not the other way around.

[Gil]

We are doing Algebra now and it hasn't been a problem.

[EndOfOrdinary]

My son was fully into PreAlgebra by 4th grade.  Just take it as slowly as she needs to go.  Some parts will be longer, some shorter, but that is just learning and has nothing to do with age.  PreA, for the most part, is a general wrap up of elementary math so that you can begin algebra ready for the abstraction and not bogged down in mechanics.   No real timeline needed, just the desire to move forward! 

[Gratia271]

I have a 4th grader that is just starting MM 5B.  She's bored.  So much is repetitive or she's already made the leap to the next step.  She over heard a conversation between DH and myself in September about what to use after MM.  She asked to start Dolciani Pre-Algebra NOW! So we did.  Twice a week for ~30 minutes while still doing MM M-F.  It's not fast progress in the Pre-A because of the time but she's loving it.  New concepts (exponents) are explained in 3 pages instead of 20.  We're only about halfway through the first Chapter though.

 

Is there a huge roadblock waiting around the corner?  Am I nuts?

That's great that you are letting her progress at her own pace.  Local friends thought we were "nuts", but children need to be taught at their level--whatever it is.  We didn't run into roadblocks- other than a high ability son with a poor work ethic.  Even so, he sailed through HS math and is taking Precalc as a 7th grader.  I don't know when he will hit an academic challenge-------his attitude is very challenging though. :glare:

 

[Leav97]

That's great that you are letting her progress at her own pace.  Local friends thought we were "nuts", but children need to be taught at their level--whatever it is.  We didn't run into roadblocks- other than a high ability son with a poor work ethic.  Even so, he sailed through HS math and is taking Precalc as a 7th grader.  I don't know when he will hit an academic challenge-------his attitude is very challenging though. :glare:

 

I've gave up on talking to anyone local a long time ago.  I may not post much but I've come to rely on the internet for help.

[Momof3littles]

In 4th, we continued Singapore 5a/5b, CWP 5, and mixed in several LoF books, including physics and pre-algebra.  I don't love Fred at all, but DS1 enjoys doing it on his own when he needs a break from our regular curriculum.

 

We are doing AOPS pre-alg this year (5th).  He dabbled a little in Jacob's algebra and we tested out AOPS last year, but it seemed to me that we would be better off waiting a year.

[kroe1]

Why would you think teaching a kiddo at his brain level is nuts? I do not understand.

 

Having said that, a roadblock may hit at algebra when the problems become more abstract. The abstract thought process matures later in most kiddos. It is not always related to ease of learning. So a 5th grader who suddenly finds a new algebra text too frustrating does not mean he is no longer gifted.

[SebastianCat]

Having said that, a roadblock may hit at algebra when the problems become more abstract. The abstract thought process matures later in most kiddos. It is not always related to ease of learning. So a 5th grader who suddenly finds a new algebra text too frustrating does not mean he is no longer gifted. 

 

 

Absolutely agree with this.   The other thing that might be worth mentioning is that when puberty hormones start flowing, they can really disrupt a pre-teens ability to think.   I would mentally prepare yourself for the possibility that physiological changes may slow down her progress at some point.   

[boscopup]

At this age, if you hit a roadblock, you can easily set it aside and come back to it later. Not a big deal.

 

We started AoPS Prealgebra at the beginning of 4th grade. We use Dolciani when he needs practice in a certain topic. If we had used just Dolciani, we would already be in algebra now. Since we used AoPS, we're still in Prealgebra for 5th grade. We'll start algebra either later this school year or beginning of 6th (it would have been January, but complicated pregnancy has slowed us down - good thing he was so far ahead!). I plan to use Jacobs for algebra, and we will probably follow that up with AoPS Intro to Algebra, but we'll see. I figure after two years of really hard Prealgebra, a year of easier algebra is a good thing. :D

 

My goal for my son has been to keep him appropriately challenged without racing to calculus. Thankfully, AoPS made that easier. (Not saying you have to use AoPS though - there are other options)

[Dmmetler]

We did LOF PA along with Key to Algebra and competition practice at age 7-8, AOPS PA at age 8-9, and are now doing AOPS Beginning Algebra at age 9-10. We're also doing some statistics in parallel because DD needs it for some of her bio stuff. 

 

I felt very nervous about making the jump, which was why we did LOF first, because I didn't think DD was ready for AOPS. In 20/20 hindsight, she probably was, but I wasn't!

 

I have held off on the AOPS online classes, though, because DD's pace simply isn't constant-sometimes things come really easily, and sometimes they take longer. And sometimes, we just need to be able to take a break and do something else. With a younger DC, you have plenty of time.

 

 

 

 

[Roadrunner]

Just start it. I have delayed introducing preA thinking my kid would be overwhelmed, he isn't gifted, he needs more review, AoPS is too hard..... Well, I finally let this boy get started with preA and he is wrapping up chapter 2 without a sweat. I am stunned. I guess for those of you out there with "normal" kids scared to take a plunge with a younger kid and expecting lots of difficulties, it doesn't have to be that way. We have done SM through 5B and JA.

 

Of course part of me thinks just because I said this out loud, the universe will punish me and we will hit the wall. :)

[wapiti]

Just start it. I have delayed introducing preA thinking my kid would be overwhelmed, he isn't gifted, he needs more review, AoPS is too hard..... Well, I finally let this boy get started with preA and he is wrapping up chapter 2 without a sweat. I am stunned. I guess for those of you out there with "normal" kids scared to take a plunge with a younger kid and expecting lots of difficulties, it doesn't have to be that way. We have done SM through 5B and JA.

 

:thumbup1:

 

Of course part of me thinks just because I said this out loud, the universe will punish me and we will hit the wall.  :)

 

Yeah we had something later on; not really a wall per se, maybe a "pause."  Pauses are even more ok when there's plenty of extra time  :tongue_smilie:

[plansrme]

My HS junior did pre-algebra in third grade and Algebra I in fourth.  She never hit that abstract-thinking wall everyone talks about and progressed through the rest of the typical math sequence at a normal pace (Geometry in fifth, Algebra II in sixth, pre-calculus in seventh, AP Calc AB in eighth; Calc BC in ninth; college Calc II and III at a selective four-year engineering school in tenth).  You might want to check out a book called Math Coach.  The author was (he is dead now, and the book is out of print) a cognitive psychologist at Columbia and also the father of several exceptionally math-oriented children.  He says there there is no research confirming the common belief that the brain has to mature to a certain level before it can handle algebra.  I know, everyone says there is, and I do not discount their experiences, but his theory is that the supposed roadblock is actually something else--emotional maturity, perhaps, but not actually cognitive maturity.  You may hit a roadblock, but it is by no means a certainty.  My HS junior is in differential equations right now at the same college where she took Calc II and III, continuing to kick butt and take names.  She is a smart cookie, yes, but there are plenty of smart cookies who are not where she is only because they did not have the option to be so radically accelerated.  Not that you have to be radically accelerated even if it is possible, but it has been useful for her for many reasons.

 

[OZARKIAN]

not nuts - a 4th grader could learn trig or calculus. it has been done.

[BuddhaMama]

Nope, not nuts! We're getting ready to start AoPS Pre-Algebra with our 2nd grader (she's doing 5th grade level stuff now). I just ordered the book from Amazon today so it should be here next week :) 

 

She's always up for a challenge and has been asking for another math program (she uses EPGY, which we still really like). We figured we'd go ahead, give it a try, and fill in any missing spots if needed! If it's too hard, no harm. We'll just set it aside for a bit and go back to EPGY for a little while longer.