Need gameplan advice for 6th-12th grade math - after Singapore 5B or 6B

[jjgarner]

Hello all. 

 

Our daughter, who is a 5th grader, will finish Singapore Math 5B (US edition) by late spring, and we're thinking about our next steps.  We're considering several options and would love to hear suggestions, experiences, and thoughts of others who've crossed this bridge before us.  We've been quite happy with Singapore Math since 2A, and our daughter has done really well with it.  We hope to transition into another math curriculum that works just as well for us. 

 

I should note that as our daughter progresses into higher level math, I will appreciate help with teaching as I am no math expert by any stretch.  We have a very bright little girl, and I don't want to stifle or hold her back due to MY lack of math expertise and confidence.

 

 

Our option one is to continue on with Singapore Math 6A and 6B for her 6th grade year.   Then we would proceed from there with one of these options:

 

Thinkwell 7th grade for 7th grade

Thinkwell 8th grade for 8th grade

Thinkwell 9th - 12th grades (where to begin in 9th I'm not sure - either Algebra I or Geometry)

 

or

 

Singapore's New Elementary Math 1 for 7th grade 

Singapore's New Elementary Math 2 for 8th grade

Thinkwell from 9th - 12th grades (not sure which Thinkwell level to begin in 9th - either Algebra I or Geometry)

 

or

 

do Art of Problem Solving (not sure at all which level)

 

 

Our option two would be to move on to Thinkwell starting in 6th grade.

 

 

Any thoughts?

 

We have read that a large portion of Singapore 6A and 6B is review.  Has this been your experience?  We've read it is light in covering negative numbers in particular.  Any other gaps?  We don't want to rush it by skipping over 6A and 6B, but we also don't want to waste a year with review if that's what it truly entails.

 

Also, we wonder if Singapore 6A and 6B is considered pre-algebra?  If so, would Thinkwell's grades 7 and 8 be overkill or too much review?   I'm not sure which level we would start Thinkwell.  The placement test would help of course, but we wonder what the overall consensus is on placing kids after completing Singapore - either after 5B or 6B.  Could you move straight to Algebra I? 

 

Other options after completing Singapore (either 5B or 6B) are Foerster's Algebra, Jacobs Algebra, or AoPS Algebra.  Any advice with these?

 

The Thinkwell route looks promising to me because I do want to consider turning a portion of the math teaching over to an outside source eventually. 

 

Thank you so much if you've read this far.  I don't mean to ramble, I'm just a little confused with all the options and my head is spinning with questions!  :-)  Thank you in advance for your help.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Crimson Wife]

I would recommend looking at Math in Focus Courses 1-3 if you want handholding as a teacher. Singapore NEM is out of print and Discovering Mathematics does not have a lot of guidance for the teacher (the TM has full solutions to the problems but nothing akin to the guidance in the Primary Math HIG's).

 

My DD did DM 7A-most of 8A but did not actually master the material even though I'd thought she was doing okay with it. So now she's using a Barron's study guide called "Forgotten Algebra" to review the material she covered and then going forward I'm considering Saxon.

[The Governess]

My dd finished 5b this summer and started an AOPS pre-algebra class this fall. She is really enjoying it. It is definitely challenging but overall it has been a smooth transition. The books are very conversational and are great for independent learners and/or parents (re)learning alongside their students.

[jjgarner]

Thank so much.

 

The Singapore Math website says that they will no longer carry Discovering Mathematics after Dec. 31, 2014, due to trademark issues.  So that will definitely be out for us anyway.  However, according to their website, they will continue to carry New Elementary Math levels 1 and 2 (but not levels 3 and 4.)

 

Has anyone used NEM?  The Singapore Math's website describes New Elementary Math 1 as Introductory Algebra and Geometry, and New Elementary Math 2 as Intermediate Algebra and Geometry.  If a student completed these two in 7th and 8th grades, where would they go from there?  For example, how would this align with the Thinkwell courses, or AoPS courses?

 

Crimson Wife, thanks for the suggestion for Math in Focus 1-3 and the book Forgotten Algebra for review.  We'll definitely look into those at well. 

 

Lovelearnandlive, is your daughter taking her AoPS pre-algebra class with other students online, or is she working through the course on her own?  That's great she's finding success with it after completing 5B.  Do you plan to continue on with AoPS?

 

Anyone use Thinkwell after Singapore?

 

Please keep the suggestions and advice coming.  Thanks again!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jjgarner]

I am continuing to research the math options after Singapore 6B and would love to run my thoughts by you guys.

 

We will most likely continue with Singapore 6A and 6B, and finish up in 6th grade.  Our daughter has been happy with Singapore and wants to complete the program. 

 

I'm wondering this:  are Singapore 6A and 6B considered pre-algebra???  If so, we could begin algebra in 7th grade.  If not, we would move to pre-algebra in 7th grade and do algebra in 8th.

 

Here is a very loose plan:

 

7th grade - pre-algebra

(options include Lial's pre-algebra, Tablet, Dolciani, AoPS, Derek Owens, Thinkwell, Math in Focus, and even Saxon.  Decisions, decisions . . . )

 

8th grade - algebra

(options same as above plus other options like Jacob's elementary algebra and Foersters with maybe some Singapore algebraic words problems as supplements)

 

9th grade - geometry

 

10th grade - algebra II

 

1th grade - trig.

 

12th grade - pre-calculus

 

Any thoughts on this?  Thank you so much for sharing your experiences.

 

[desertflower]

Well not to add to your dilemma, but there's jousting armadillo as well. I'm not there yet, but I think it's intro to algebra. :)

 

I'm following because I'm curious myself.

[Lucy the Valiant]

jjgarner, your list looks nearly identical to ours; we're in exactly the same boat.

 

6th grade right now, doing 6A & will then do 6B. It DOES seem like a lot of review, but it is satisfactorily challenging (harder multi-step problems + an excellent review of percents, decimals, fractions so far).

 

So basically, I'm just stalking this thread.

[Luckymama]

Trig is part of pre-calculus, btw :)

 

My dd didn't stick to one math "topic" per year. Once she was free to move through math at her own speed, she flew :D She began homeschooling in fifth grade. She never used Singapore.

 

5th: mishmash of pre-algebra topics

6th: AoPS pre-algebra (that was the year it came out), then ch 1-4 AoPS Intro to Algebra

7th: AoPS algebra ch 5-13, AoPS geometry class online (ran March to Sept)

8th: finished AoPS algebra, AoPS Intermediate Algebra (basically the algebra portions of precalc)

9th (current): AoPS Pre-Calculus, begin AoPS calculus in the spring, take SAT Math 2 subject text in May or June

10th (projected): AoPS calculus class online Oct-April, targeted test prep followed by AP Calc BC exam in May

 

After that, who knows? She'll either start taking classes at the university (we live within walking/biking distance of a research university) or I'll find something online for her to do. I do not wish to teach anything above basic calculus.

 

(Almost forgot---she also covered the more unusual AoPS books, Intro to Counting and Probability and Intro to Number Theory. Both are very good options outside of what is commonly taught and are perfect for engaged math students who could use additional topics of study.)

[jjgarner]

Thank you for your responses! 

 

Yes, Jousting Armadillos is another option for intro to algebra.  Thanks for mentioning that, JMcElrath.  I need to look further into it.

 

Lucy the Valiant, thanks for sharing your experience with 6A and 6B.  Thanks for giving us a look into those next levels. I think review can be quite helpful (along with the more challenging, multi-step problems like you mentioned) in boosting confidence and further concreting the student's understanding of the concepts.  We'll be right behind you!  I'd love to hear what you guys decide to do next year!

 

Thanks, too, Luckymama, for sharing what you guys have covered and used so far.  You've accomplished so much already.  I know you must be very proud of your daughter.  Is she self-teaching at this point?  Dual enrollment is also an option for us in our state, beginning in 11th grade.

 

Please keep the suggestions coming!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[regentrude]

we started with AoPS Intro to Algebra (the prealgebra book was not out when we would have needed it) and used the series through calculus, just the books, no classes. Love it, am now on 2nd kid.

DD did

algebra (entire text) in 7th grade, skipped 8th grade

geometry in 9th

algebra 2 and precalculus in 10,

calculus in 11.

Multivariable calc in 12th ( no more AoPS book for that, sadly)

 

DD spent 6th and 7th and half of 8th on the Intro to Algebra text, plus a semester for counting and probability,

geometry in 9th

algebra 2 currently in 10th.

 

 

[regentrude]

Here is a very loose plan:

 

7th grade - pre-algebra

(options include Lial's pre-algebra, Tablet, Dolciani, AoPS, Derek Owens, Thinkwell, Math in Focus, and even Saxon.  Decisions, decisions . . . )

 

8th grade - algebra

(options same as above plus other options like Jacob's elementary algebra and Foersters with maybe some Singapore algebraic words problems as supplements)

 

9th grade - geometry

 

10th grade - algebra II

 

1th grade - trig.

 

12th grade - pre-calculus

 

Any thoughts on this?  Thank you so much for sharing your experiences.

 

trig is half of a precalculus course. You don't need two years to do trig and precalc. If you follow this sequence, make it precalc (including trig) in 11th and calc in 12.

 

[Lucy the Valiant]

Is trig sometimes (the later) part of algebra II also? I had basic trig in high school, but did not have pre-calc; it was attached to either algebra II or geometry (I can't remember which).

 

We will likely be outsourcing by that time, too, as I can mostly DO the pre-calc, but I am a terrible tutor / explainer. I am working hard to stay ahead of them, but I'm trying to be realistic that outsourcing the later couple of years may be our best option. I am comfortable teaching through algebra II.

 

We also currently supplement a lot with Khan Academy - very loose, no structure, just for fun, but they have actually learned a lot! And their younger brother is trying Beast Academy (as a supplement to Singapore, which he finds so boring) - my 2 sixth graders like to look over his shoulder at those, too (it's 3A, but they like the triangles, which haven't really been strongly covered yet in SM).

 

I'm still on the fence about what to do for 7th - we plan to re-assess the pre-algebra question at the end of this year; at this point, I am leaning toward AoPS pre-algebra *or* a more straightforward pre-alg *or* splitting my 2 up (pros and cons of this option).

[Lucy the Valiant]

Regentrude, we posted at the same time; thanks for your helpful post.

 

The thing I worry about is potentially "holding back" or "screwing up" a strong math student due to my own inadequacies in that area. I am totally comfortable through the end of Alg. 2, but not after.

[jjgarner]

Regentrude, we posted at the same time; thanks for your helpful post.

 

The thing I worry about is potentially "holding back" or "screwing up" a strong math student due to my own inadequacies in that area. I am totally comfortable through the end of Alg. 2, but not after.

I feel this way exactly, Lucy the Valiant.  Honestly, at this point, I'm not even comfortable solo-teaching Algebra 2.  I would certainly have to relearn everything I have forgotten years ago, and I don't want to let our daughter down.  She's a bright one, and I don't want to hold her back.  That's one reason Thinkwell online courses are appealing to me. 

[jjgarner]

trig is half of a precalculus course. You don't need two years to do trig and precalc. If you follow this sequence, make it precalc (including trig) in 11th and calc in 12.

 

 

Thanks for this explanation.  When I was in high school, we had a completely separate trig. class that was taken after algebra II.  From there, it was pre-calculus and then calculus.

 

Thanks, too, for sharing your daughters' math experiences.  All this feedback is quite helpful!

[quark]

Just some feedback from my experience using Thinkwell. We supplemented a little with the program first for prelagebra, then algebra 2 and precalculus. Although the videos are entertaining and somewhat informative (but also repetitive in my son's opinion), I found that the follow up questions did not provide enough practice with the concepts or for building problem solving skills. We continued to use the videos sporadically as supplements because I had already paid for the subscriptions (and my son still enjoyed listening to Ed Burger's jokes) but my son was better served using the Dolciani series consistently for higher math and occasional AoPS classes/ books and math circle-style problems for more meaningful challenge.

[jjgarner]

Just some feedback from my experience using Thinkwell. We supplemented a little with the program first for prelagebra, then algebra 2 and precalculus. Although the videos are entertaining and somewhat informative (but also repetitive in my son's opinion), I found that the follow up questions did not provide enough practice with the concepts or for building problem solving skills. We continued to use the videos sporadically as supplements because I had already paid for the subscriptions (and my son still enjoyed listening to Ed Burger's jokes) but my son was better served using the Dolciani series consistently for higher math and occasional AoPS classes/ books and math circle-style problems for more meaningful challenge.

 

Thank you for that honest review of Thinkwell, quark.  I was afraid of that - the lack of building problem solving skills with the short videos and practice worksheets.  We've read nothing but great things about the instructor, however.  Maybe we'll take your same route - using it as supplement.

 

I wonder how Chalkdust compares?

 

Any other opinions on Thinkwell and/or Chalkdust?

 

Thank you! 

[Crimson Wife]

My DH had trig as part of Algebra 2 and went directly from that course into Calculus. My school had a full year of Algebra 2 and a full year of Pre-Calculus, half of which was trig and the other half a gentle intro to some of the easier topics of calculus. However, some of the topics covered in my school's Algebra 2 class DH never saw until he took Linear Algebra in college. Things like matrices, vectors, dot products, etc. He was surprised that they'd been in my high school Algebra 2 course.

 

So I think there is definitely a tradeoff in scope when choosing a combined Algebra 2 & trig year.

[wapiti]

My DH had trig as part of Algebra 2 and went directly from that course into Calculus. My school had a full year of Algebra 2 and a full year of Pre-Calculus, half of which was trig and the other half a gentle intro to some of the easier topics of calculus. However, some of the topics covered in my school's Algebra 2 class DH never saw until he took Linear Algebra in college. Things like matrices, vectors, dot products, etc. He was surprised that they'd been in my high school Algebra 2 course.

 

So I think there is definitely a tradeoff in scope when choosing a combined Algebra 2 & trig year.

 

FWIW, some schools combine trig with alg 2 in one year and still have a full year of precalc (that is what I did back in the dark ages and that is also how the courses are organized at both high schools my dd is appying to; one school uses the classic edition of Dolciani's Structure and Method Book 2 for honors alg 2/trig and Franklin Demana for honors precalc).

[kiana]

Thanks for this explanation.  When I was in high school, we had a completely separate trig. class that was taken after algebra II.  From there, it was pre-calculus and then calculus.

 

Thanks, too, for sharing your daughters' math experiences.  All this feedback is quite helpful!

 

Were these both full-year courses? Or was trig one semester?

 

It was quite common to do one semester of trig and one of pre-calculus, and I know that when my mother was in school it was common to do a semester of trig and a semester of analytic geometry. But I haven't seen where it was common to have people do both.

 

On a side note: It used to be quite common to do calculus after algebra 2/trigonometry -- this route could be taken if using a book such as Foerster's classic text, but many students lack the mathematical maturity to really "get" calculus at this stage. Adding another year of pre-calculus, which reviewed algebra, functions, and trigonometry, while adding in topics from analytic geometry and the beginning part of calculus, was a way for them to gain mathematical maturity without repeating the exact same material.

 

I have a pretty decent collection of calculus textbooks, and the older they get, the less they pre-suppose in formal mathematical instruction, and paradoxically, the more they pre-suppose in mathematical maturity and intuition.