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So now my kid wants to be gifted... what would you do?


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Miss E is seeing some of her friends go to the gifted program at school, and she asked me if I forgot to sign her up.  :p  She is certain that she is smarter than at least some of those selected.  (I'm sure that is true.)  I explained that she didn't do her best on the TerraNovas last year so she didn't get selected.  She said the test was boring, and later she said "I'm afraid what will happen if I let all my power out."  (Possibly Harry Potter's influence :p)  I took that to mean that she is iffy about showing the extent of her abilities at school.

 

So now she wants to get into the gifted program, and I believe her actual abilities would qualify her, but I'm not sure what to do about it.  I was told last year that the selection was based on test scores and grades, and while she's always been on the honor roll, she has only had a 4.0 one quarter so far.  Mostly she sat and did personal reading in 2nd grade, rather than try to catch every word the teacher said. Her TerraNova scores were fine but not wow.

 

She seems to be turning around and wanting to be more openly intellectual this year.  I hate to see her excluded from the gifted program, but I can't really say it's unfair because she blew off the tests.

 

ETA:  she attends a Lutheran school.

 

What would you do?

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In my state, a parent can ask, in writing, for an evaluation.  One score, on one test, on one day, should not be the sole criteria, especially on an achievement test like the Terra Nova rather than an aptitude test.  In addition, grades are often neither here nor there.  In my district, the vast majority of kids in the program are there because a parent was a squeaky wheel.  It is an excellent program and well worth it.  (Every area is different; gifted programs, where they exist, vary widely and excellence is not always the case.)  I suggest you look into your state law, see if there is a state support group for gifted parents, and find out how to appropriately proceed in your state.  There's a lot more to know and consider than my short post, but your state support group should have appropriate materials and advice.

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I should have mentioned that she attends a Lutheran school, so I doubt the state public school rules would apply.

 

As for telling her to try harder on the test, it's hard to know the balance between getting her to care vs. getting her nervous about it.  Also, she was a little negative on the "gifted" thing last year, like she was afraid of the idea of being singled out.  I figured she'd do well on the test anyway, but it went on for 3 weeks and the teacher told me she basically got fatigued by the whole business.

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What I did on the day she brought it up was:  I told her that if she wants to be in the program, she should go to the teacher in charge and speak to him.  Tell him you weren't focused on the test but you believe you are gifted and ask what you can do about it.

 

She'll be 8 in January, so I am not sure what she will do.  It would be fun to have a hidden camera.  Would she be her smart, articulate self or will she go over there and squeak "PIKACHUUUU" or will the mere thought of advocating for herself send her running to hide behind the curtain?  :P

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Get a professional evaluation from a psychologist (a PhD is required).  That will carry all the weight that you need, and let you know where she really stands at the same time.  It can be a useful tool regardless of the outcome.

 

I agree with this. And make sure to get a full report and letter of recommendation from the psychologist, not just scores.

I would NOT have your daughter ask anyone at the school for re-consideration.

 

(I'm approaching this as a ps parent at a district with 'gate-keepers' to the gifted program)

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I agree with this. And make sure to get a full report and letter of recommendation from the psychologist, not just scores.

I would NOT have your daughter ask anyone at the school for re-consideration.

 

(I'm approaching this as a ps parent at a district with 'gate-keepers' to the gifted program)

I agree that a professional evaluation may help (more so in the future). "I" wouldn't have my student ask to be in the program, but I think a parent should be her advocate and ask in her behalf.

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What I did on the day she brought it up was: I told her that if she wants to be in the program, she should go to the teacher in charge and speak to him. Tell him you weren't focused on the test but you believe you are gifted and ask what you can do about it.

 

She'll be 8 in January, so I am not sure what she will do. It would be fun to have a hidden camera. Would she be her smart, articulate self or will she go over there and squeak "PIKACHUUUU" or will the mere thought of advocating for herself send her running to hide behind the curtain? :P

I love the idea of teaching her to advocate for herself...but in this particular area, especially where she is just seeming to realize it is okay to be gifted, I would be really worried about that being crushed by a teacher who either wasn't prepared to answer or says something not supportive. Either intentionally or inadvertently.

 

If you really wanted to go this route, maybe sounding it out with the teacher prior?

Unfortunately, when there are limited spots in a school gifted program they often do go off of the standardized tests, and partly a teacher recommendation. In a case like this you may well have to acquire independent testing results, even if the teacher believes the child's ability is not reflected by the previous standardized tests. It is their fallback when they get lots of phone calls basically saying the same thing:( (Absolutely not saying this is the case here, as you know your child better than the teachers! Just a perspective from watching my nephew, PG, not qualify for the ps gifted program based upon standardized scores and lack of people-pleasing ability.)

 

Good luck. I think it is really exciting that she has arrived at the idea that maybe it is okay to 'let her powers out!'

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I should have mentioned that she attends a Lutheran school, so I doubt the state public school rules would apply.

Don't assume this.  In my area, the gifted program is run by the public school, but the kids who attend come from the public school, area private schools, and homeschools.  The students qualify using the same criteria, regardless of where they go to school.

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I think my mom encouraged me to do something similar in the 2nd grade, so the family story goes that I marched up to the teacher to let her know that I would be bringing in cupcakes for my birthday AND that she needed to test me for the highest reading group because I was bored.

 

In reality my mom must also have been working behind the scenes with the teacher, too, because that started a big process of testing, re-placement and library passes as bribes to train me to complete my "boring" work and show what I could do :)

 

Perhaps you could connect with her teacher to talk about this new interest your daughter is showing?

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I think that the best option is to get a psychologist administered IQ test and an Out of Level Acievement test (WISC, WIAT etc). The numbers will help you understand where she stands as well as help you explain to the school what her strengths are.

 

I don't think that a child requesting the teacher to be allowed into the program would work in my son's school (we are not in a PS). I recommend that you go and meet the gifted program coordinator with the numbers and data to back you up and advocate for the gifted program. Taking a portfolio of her work with you when you meet them would be an even better idea. Good luck.

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I would ask if there was a chance to retest and tell your daughter to make an effort this time. Of course they may not want to retest or offer to retest all the kids so they may say she has to wait until the next scheduled test but it can't help to ask. But saying I/my child didn't put forth her best effort is not going to impress.

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Yesterday I told her that if she wants it, she has to really do her best work in reading, math, and writing, and on the state assessment they are having next week, and on the TerraNovas they do in the early spring.  I think that is most realistic.  If she is consistent with academic basics and gets outstanding test results, we will have something to go on to request an individual IQ test.  I am not opposed to having her tested outside, but I'm not really sure how to go about it and I'm not sure that by itself will do the trick.  She may have to wait until next year to get into the program, but that is not the end of the world.  At least if it doesn't come easily, she will appreciate it more.

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I think telling her she needs to show everyone over the course of this academic year that she "belongs" (not the right word - perhaps you can come up with a better one) in the gifted program by doing her best work, even when the daily work or the test is "boring."

 

However, I don't see a problem in her asking the teacher (or gifted program advisor) what the gateposts are for getting in. When I was in 7th grade & they handed out the "gifted program" slips in my homeroom, I was perplexed why I didn't get one. I went to see my school counselor (who later became my sister's FIL) during lunch break. He looked up my file and we went to talk with the gifted program advisor. In my case, my score gap between 4th grade & 6th grade on the test they used to determine eligibility was so huge (something bigger than +60%) that they figured there was some weirdness in that one score. Upon further review, the annual standardized tests I took during those times correlated with the huge jump and they let me in. Why we had to take two different standardized tests in the even years is still a mystery to me, but I was glad for the backup at the time. 

 

As long as she is polite, I don't see a problem with her asking some questions this year. Perhaps you'll see increased motivation to let her power out. :-)

Even Harry Potter & his friends had to take OWLs (standardized tests).

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Why does she want to be in the gifted program? As an adult I can see why, but I'm wondering what it is about the program that attracts your dd? Is it that her friends go, or that they do cool stuff? I"m just thinking that there may be a way to address the need that does not require the gifted program per se.

I'm also wondering about the connection between getting good grades and the getting in to the gifted program. While I'm firmly in the camp of just because you're gifted doesn't mean you can slack off on your work, I do get that really bright kids have a hard time with work that isn't challenging or interesting to them at their level. My understanding is that gifted programs are set up in part to address this disconnect, so that admission should not be based on getting grades but on ability, to catch the bright children who are failing because they are not motivated. This wouldn't apply in your and your dd's case because you're obviously so on top of this issue, but it may be a way to open a discussion with the people running the program. If your dd is in the program and motivated by the challenge, it may affect her regular schoolwork in a positive way.

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Saw, I agree that grades aren't the best indicator, but may be they use that because they want kids who are willing to put in extra effort.  They do projects etc. in the program and probably don't want dead weight.  Also, the TerraNovas they took last year included both cognitive and achievement tests.  (That's why it took them 3 weeks.)  On the cognitive part it estimated her IQ as 120.  So they are going by that as well.  I know it isn't accurate.  I also know it will be years before they do another cognitive group test in school.

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Saw, I agree that grades aren't the best indicator, but may be they use that because they want kids who are willing to put in extra effort.  They do projects etc. in the program and probably don't want dead weight.  Also, the TerraNovas they took last year included both cognitive and achievement tests.  (That's why it took them 3 weeks.)  On the cognitive part it estimated her IQ as 120.  So they are going by that as well.  I know it isn't accurate.  I also know it will be years before they do another cognitive group test in school.

 

Your daughter is a year younger than her classmates. You need to find out if they used age norms or grade norms to score the cognitive test.  There will be  big difference in the scores when kids are still 6, 7, and 8 if they are older or younger for a grade when using grade based vs. age based scores.  Typically, cognitive scores are scored using age based norms. However, there are cognitive tests that have grade based norms. Try to find the print out where her scores are listed to see what norms are used. If they used grade based her IQ would have been estimated to be higher if age based norms were used instead.  In public scores, when kids are tested for gifted programs, almost always age based scores are used so kids who are young for their grade are not penalized. 

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I would think you could appeal the results and see what could be done to get the ball rolling for acceptance. You said she takes the TerraNova in Spring again -- can they admit based on that?

 

I do not believe I am gifted in the sense that testing would pick up, but I was placed into the Gifted Program in Middle School due to grades and behavior. I was chosen to participate for 6th grade, but for whatever reason, fell through the cracks. It wasn't until the 8th grade when myself and three other friends who had also been accepted back in 6th grade asked to be switched.

 

It my be worth it to appeal.

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Gifted kids extend beyond what is presented in the classroom.  A clued-in teacher can see it in the thinking displayed.

 

Unfortunately the teacher is due to have a baby October 10.  I don't think she's had enough experience with my quiet, not-so-careful kid, and I don't expect the substitute to step up on this matter.

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I guess I just wonder how anyone is going to listen to me when they don't know my kid.  I mean, anyone can say "my kid is smarter than this and the reason she doesn't do better is because she's bored."

 

This is one reason why a WISC score and report from a psychologist is helpful. Is there some reason you don't want to have your daughter do it? My kids found it sort of fun.

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The bolded is awesome!
 

Before you do anything, check out the details of the gifted program at your school.  DD was in the gifted program at her school when she was in PS and it was a waste of time (several people I know voluntarily pulled their kids from it for various reasons).  But if you investigate and it is satisfactory/suitable, then there is usually an appeals process you can go through to have your child reconsidered for GT programs; see the schools GT counselor for how to go about doing that.

Miss E is seeing some of her friends go to the gifted program at school, and she asked me if I forgot to sign her up.  :p  She is certain that she is smarter than at least some of those selected.  (I'm sure that is true.)  I explained that she didn't do her best on the TerraNovas last year so she didn't get selected.  She said the test was boring, and later she said "I'm afraid what will happen if I let all my power out."  (Possibly Harry Potter's influence :p)  I took that to mean that she is iffy about showing the extent of her abilities at school.

 

So now she wants to get into the gifted program, and I believe her actual abilities would qualify her, but I'm not sure what to do about it.  I was told last year that the selection was based on test scores and grades, and while she's always been on the honor roll, she has only had a 4.0 one quarter so far.  Mostly she sat and did personal reading in 2nd grade, rather than try to catch every word the teacher said. Her TerraNova scores were fine but not wow.

 

She seems to be turning around and wanting to be more openly intellectual this year.  I hate to see her excluded from the gifted program, but I can't really say it's unfair because she blew off the tests.

 

ETA:  she attends a Lutheran school.

 

What would you do?

 

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This was pretty typical in y district, too.  Not the majority of GT parents, but a noticeable number, anyway.

In my state, a parent can ask, in writing, for an evaluation.  One score, on one test, on one day, should not be the sole criteria, especially on an achievement test like the Terra Nova rather than an aptitude test.  In addition, grades are often neither here nor there.  In my district, the vast majority of kids in the program are there because a parent was a squeaky wheel.  It is an excellent program and well worth it.  (Every area is different; gifted programs, where they exist, vary widely and excellence is not always the case.)  I suggest you look into your state law, see if there is a state support group for gifted parents, and find out how to appropriately proceed in your state.  There's a lot more to know and consider than my short post, but your state support group should have appropriate materials and advice.

 

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