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identifying 2e or other issues...ps or homeschool?


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**this is somewhat of a repost from the general education forum...

 

My DD is a 2nd grade in our local public school.

Her whole 3 years has been a series of ups and downs. Primarily due to the fact that she is fairly advanced in most subjects and is a very fast learner.

Kindergarten was a bust due to teacher issues and just her advancement. She was seriously stifled reading and math wise as she really was forced to go along with the group. She was reading at nearly a second grade level and the teacher kept sending home 5-10 word per page books. She ended the year with serious stomach related issues that eventually led to an IBS diagnosis.

First grade was better due to a much better teacher, but she developed many coping skills to get her through the day (hair pulling, hair chewing etc). As far as we can tell, her coping skills dealt mainly with having to remain within the boundaries with her behavior etc when she was either done with the assigned work (very quickly) or having to pay attention during group instruction that was way below her level.

Second grade has been much better as far as coping skills and she has a much more structured teacher. But, the teacher lacks greatly in communication with us and after our first conference we realized that our DD spends a lot of down time due to finishing her work quickly. She has struggled this whole time with large group instruction and the teacher has declared her to us as "that kid" that is hard to handle. She struggles with being a distraction to other students bc of her boredom.

 

Our school system is very small and we have a good relationship with the administration and many of the staff from the elementary on up. It does try very hard to provide enrichment options for advanced children and has done so with our girl. She has an enrichment group that she attends (and loves dearly) for about 50 minutes during the day. Our concern is what is happening in the classroom and how much she is really learning. Based on the yearly testing that they do, she is regressing some and while I think a lot of that is due to the fact that she is not a good test taker. There is beginning to be a discrepancy between the assessment and what she is producing in class.

Her teacher is willing to provide extra project based opportunities for her to work on that she can do after she completes her work in the classroom and she has also set up her as a peer tutor for a peer at her work table. I'm 50/50 whether I feel good about these "independent" opportunities for her.

 

Her teacher last year brought up the "gifted" term and we are currently in counseling for her coping issues and her counselor is trying to rule out aspergers. She ticks about half of the boxes for aspergers in girls. I've recently been introduced to the term 2e and I'm beginning to think this is where she slants.

 

All that to say I feel like I'm losing my mind with information and choices. I struggle with thinking that I'm overthinking or looking for things that aren't there.

But my mother's intuition and gut for the longest time is that something is "off" about her. (off in the sense that she's not your average little chick).

She is insanely persistent, can be explosive (verbally) at home and I think she holds that in at school for the most part.

She has no concept of time or money (like none) and tends to give up and "explode" when she is frustrated with a task (for example...last night we were playing Othello and it is a game that she hasn't been able to find a way to cheat - which is  something she tends to do with everything - when she realized that she wasn't going to win and couldn't find a way to make it happen she began to escalate. She was huffing and puffing, yelling, kicking and just getting really frustrated. She just wanted me to tell her the answer so we could just go ahead and be done. I was able to talk her down -and enticed her with a "reward" at the end for sticking with it and she was able to accept the loss. This is a very typical reponse to many things).

 

We just aren't sure where to go.

Is it worth it for us to get her tested?

Do we keep her in PS (which she does love) even though we have a tenuous relationship with her current teacher and know that she is having significant downtime

or do we pull her out mid-year, deschool for a while and then homeschool for 3rd grade?

We have homeschooled our oldest in the past and I am a former teacher so the idea of keeping her home isn't out of our comfort zone...we just aren't sure the best step to take.

 

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I don't know what responses you got on Gen, but frankly with what you've listed I'm shocked you're even allowing her to stay in school!  I'd bring that child home in a hot minute.  You couldn't do ANY WORSE than what they're doing to her.

 

Does it MATTER if it's 2E or 1?  Sure, it's probably 2E.  But all you need to know is that in that environment she can't thrive.  She has so much anxiety and so many problems there she has developed (or exacerbated) from the stress.  She may or may not need time off academics, but she definitely needs time AWAY FROM SCHOOL.  

 

Find out the homeschooling laws in your state, comply with the laws, and get her withdrawn and get this going!   :D

 

If you take her out as soon as legally allowable, then you can de-school her and let her regain her health and stability while you two discuss how you want to approach things together.  (Notice how carefully I worded that.  Notice I didn't say come on the boards and research every curriculum and buy a scad of stuff.)  Meanwhile find out who the highly regarded neuropsych is for autism within a 2-3 hour drive of you and get on their waiting list.  The better the neuropsych, the more helpful your feedback will be.  There's usually a wait.  And while you're waiting, just do things she enjoys, things that help her modulate and lower anxiety.  Go ahead and get an OT eval with someone known for being good for sensory.  They can show you some modulation techniques and help you get her feeling better.  It would be a good "not school" thing to do while you wait for evals.  

 

Your insurance may require ped referrals for those evals, so you may have to schedule that. 

 

Adding: You can also get evals through the ps, which I guess you already know, having been a teacher.  Homeschoolers in some states can get evals through the ps, so that may not have to delay you from pulling out.  Our state has HUGE autism and disability scholarships, so depending on what your state offers it may be worth it still to go through the IEP process.

 

Keep us posted on how it goes.  Love hearing about girls getting evals and getting taken care of.  It's the boys, with their more physical responses, who are more commonly diagnosed.  You're doing awesome taking care of her this way and being willing to make the changes.  It's the start of a great adventure for you.   :)

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If you don't mind, I'm bringing over your responses from your thread on Gen.  And I'm cracking up as I read them, because I was WAY more b&w and rough than anybody there.   :lol:  Hope you don't mind.  :)

She is in counseling due to the hair pulling that started last year. She isn't doing that anymore (thankfully) but she started chewing on her hair again (basically replacing one coping mechanism with another). We've kept her in counseling through the summer and into the start of the school year and she is in some ways trying to rule out aspbergers (which is girls presents itself completely differently). I totally agree that she has had more stress in school than a 6-7 year old ever needs, but to be fair she's also had some experiences and relationships that we couldn't have provided at home.

And you are right, we do have a choice...but gosh it's so hard to figure out the best one!

Really? Why?  Have you put that into words and been honest with yourself?  Is it because it's really hard or because you don't like the problem and keep hoping it will go away?  :thumbup1: 

 

"that kid" actually came from her teacher. We know that she isn't the most supportive of our parenting and I get the feeling she feels very much that we are too intense which is why I feel like she withholds communication from us.

 

I totally agree with you re: your last paragraph. That's one of the concerns that we have although 3rd grade in our district is going to be totally different as they open a new high school and go to a 4 school system. In 3rd grade she will not only move up to a new grade and new teacher, but a totally different building and classroom set up (currently they are in pods with 5 classes in one big room) and the intermediate school will be typical classrooms. Ahhh!!! All of this makes me crazy.
 

None of those things solve the problems for ASD or are therapy interventions.  None of them give her new social skills or sensory processing or skills to modulate or handle anxiety.  None of them actually HELP the ASD.  The ASD will still be there, the elephant in the room.  Sure the next teacher might be better with dealing with it or have had some experience in the past with girl ASD.  You'd need to get an IEP done.  I'm just saying, a new pretty building won't change the ASD.  

 

Would love to know more about your youngest! Sounds similar to what we are dealing with.

But that said, we have a HUGE homeschooling community in our small town and even more to choose from in the "big city" that is 15 min away. She would not be lacking in opportunities (just our financial capabilities to provide all those!) from our local zoo, museums, to a pick of co-ops and other groups to join. Not to mention a fair amount of homeschoolers in our church too.

We would totally do some major de-toxing. Honestly probably do a very project based, unit study based spring.

Unit studies are still pretty mom-driven.  I'd let her do what she wants to do.  She may have some serious interests.  The higher the IQ the MORE likely they are to need to drive their own education.  My ds is not yet diagnosed, but he has no flexibility to study something (or do something, frankly) he's not engaged in or not of a mind to do.  I ask him and we do what he wants.  I'm the consummate facilitator.  It's what works with him.  Here's a link on that.  Scroll down to (sorry, I forget what page).  There's a chart with data correlating IQs and teaching methods.  http://assess.nelson.com/pdf/sb5-asb3.pdf

 

She may or may not like the social of all those things you listed (coop, zoo days, etc.).  She might feel more comfortable if you worked on social skills, homework from the OT, modulation, just getting her FEELING better, let her find her own interests and drive, then pursue some activities that connect to her INTERESTS so she'll be most likely to connect with them.  

 

Just Give Him the Whale!: 20 Ways to Use Fascinations, Areas of Expertise, and Strengths to Support Students with...

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If you don't mind, I'm bringing over your responses from your thread on Gen.  And I'm cracking up as I read them, because I was WAY more b&w and rough than anybody there.   :lol:  Hope you don't mind.   :)

Really? Why?  Have you put that into words and been honest with yourself?  Is it because it's really hard or because you don't like the problem and keep hoping it will go away?  :thumbup1: 

 

None of those things solve the problems for ASD or are therapy interventions.  None of them give her new social skills or sensory processing or skills to modulate or handle anxiety.  None of them actually HELP the ASD.  The ASD will still be there, the elephant in the room.  Sure the next teacher might be better with dealing with it or have had some experience in the past with girl ASD.  You'd need to get an IEP done.  I'm just saying, a new pretty building won't change the ASD.  

 

Unit studies are still pretty mom-driven.  I'd let her do what she wants to do.  She may have some serious interests.  The higher the IQ the MORE likely they are to need to drive their own education.  My ds is not yet diagnosed, but he has no flexibility to study something (or do something, frankly) he's not engaged in or not of a mind to do.  I ask him and we do what he wants.  I'm the consummate facilitator.  It's what works with him.  Here's a link on that.  Scroll down to (sorry, I forget what page).  There's a chart with data correlating IQs and teaching methods.  http://assess.nelson.com/pdf/sb5-asb3.pdf

 

She may or may not like the social of all those things you listed (coop, zoo days, etc.).  She might feel more comfortable if you worked on social skills, homework from the OT, modulation, just getting her FEELING better, let her find her own interests and drive, then pursue some activities that connect to her INTERESTS so she'll be most likely to connect with them.  

 

Just Give Him the Whale!: 20 Ways to Use Fascinations, Areas of Expertise, and Strengths to Support Students with...

 

I love your honesty! That's why I opened up here anyhow. We just needed some sort of outside opinion/responses versus just bouncing off our own heads.

 

I will be the first to admit that there is (and always has been) a huge desire to homeschool both my kiddos and we've kept them in PS because of the system we are in, because we live in the community (we walk to school, I have the freedom to show up at school and visit whenever I want, we have relationships with many of the teachers etc) and honestly because our son has up till this year had a pretty phenomenal experience. But he's a totally different kid than his sister. I appreciate the comment about different teachers being able to handle her potential ASP and others not. I think I'm really beginning to realize that last year was an anomoly as far as our relationship with the teacher, amount of communication and support she gave to us and this year and kinder is prob more typical.

 

But that said, I'm crazy selfish and I know that bringing her home is a crazy life change for me. I work at home so it's really just a loss of my freedom to order my days and me having to become much more structured so I can get my work done. Isn't that horrible to say!!!?? But it's the honest truth.

 

There is a huge element where I think that we are waiting for the problem to go away or for us to realize that she really doesn't have a problem. But I'm beginning to realize that  that's not true.

thanks again for your honesty and frankness and for the links.

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Even if she's "only" gifted, the PS is clearly not addressing her needs.  She would either need to be skipped quite a bit or accommodated much better.  Have you read Genius Denied?  It discusses how PS are not supporting our gifted students, mostly because of lack of funding, training, etc.  I would seek testing.  Depending on your state and laws that may be a sticky wicket that lasts months if you seek out public testing, which I would not personally do if we were in your situation.  One book I'm reading (Creating effective programs for students with learning disabilities) highly recommends using a neuropsychologist for any testing, or at least someone familiar with neuropsychological testing, if you suspect 2e. 

 

IMO the physical manifestations your DD has (hair pulling, chewing, etc) may be due to stress or something else.  If your mommy instinct says it's not right, I would personally seek as many answers as you can. 

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I love your honesty! That's why I opened up here anyhow. We just needed some sort of outside opinion/responses versus just bouncing off our own heads.

 

I will be the first to admit that there is (and always has been) a huge desire to homeschool both my kiddos and we've kept them in PS because of the system we are in, because we live in the community (we walk to school, I have the freedom to show up at school and visit whenever I want, we have relationships with many of the teachers etc) and honestly because our son has up till this year had a pretty phenomenal experience. But he's a totally different kid than his sister. I appreciate the comment about different teachers being able to handle her potential ASP and others not. I think I'm really beginning to realize that last year was an anomoly as far as our relationship with the teacher, amount of communication and support she gave to us and this year and kinder is prob more typical.

 

But that said, I'm crazy selfish and I know that bringing her home is a crazy life change for me. I work at home so it's really just a loss of my freedom to order my days and me having to become much more structured so I can get my work done. Isn't that horrible to say!!!?? But it's the honest truth.

 

There is a huge element where I think that we are waiting for the problem to go away or for us to realize that she really doesn't have a problem. But I'm beginning to realize that  that's not true.

thanks again for your honesty and frankness and for the links.

I know, it's easy for me to say just get her evals.  :)  I took a year, a full year, to decide to get evals for my dd, and that was after I had a professional tell me flat out what was going on and to get them.  I just didn't believe it, thought it was something else, blah blah.  We let it go on till we were REALLY frustrated and I had multiple ladies from the board writing me backchannel BEGGING me to get evals.  Guess you could say I'm a slow learner.  :D

 

So I get that it's hard.  And traumatic.  But waiting isn't going to make this one any easier.   :grouphug: 

 

Pick where you're getting the evals (through the ps for an IEP, privately, or both) and get it done.  Then you'll have information.  It sounds like you're not in a position to bring her home abruptly, because of your work, so your best bet is to get evals and let that information help you make a decision.  The MAIN thing is she gets interventions, the right words for what's going on, and proper accommodations.  It doesn't matter whether that's at school or at home.  Either way she needs the evals, because either way she's got enough going on she needs them.

 

And I know that's a hard step to take.  But just do it.  It's the first step to getting your peace and the answers you want, so do it.  You can start with a visit to the ped, with an OT eval, whatever you want.  Just start somewhere and make the steps.  

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My struggle with getting evals that I do not want to go through the school.

Honeslty my background is in special education. Which seems silly of me to even wonder and question what's going on with her, but to be fair to myself I don't have experience with LD or ASP or even gifteness. I was a deaf education/multi handicapped teacher with emphasis with medically fragile children and profoundly handicapped children. A totally different ballgame than this one.

But it's frustrating (and embarrassing) even to say I have this background and not even know what to do with my own daughter! But I do know the process.

 

All that to say, the new RTI process with special ed is a ridiculous nightmare. And as much as I know the sped teachers at our school, I just don't want her going through that. I would rather go about it privately (which is in and of itself a crazy process) and go from there. It's that thing about not wanting anymore labels on her at this point or even the possibilities of labels.

 

I do have the flexibility to bring her home. It changes my schedule and reduces what I can do at home, but it doesn't prevent me from anything except the complete control of it. Which comes down to selfishness.

 

I appreciate the candor from all the replies. It makes me feel better about the need to get her officially evaluated.

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It's ASD=Autism Spectrum Disorder.  Aspie gets subsumed under that.  

 

How fascinating that you were a special ed teacher!  You wouldn't be the first special ed teacher I know who's been so *close* to it you couldn't really see it or didn't connect the dots till it became screaming obvious.  I'm sure you'll find ways to harness your background later.

 

What is making you feel the private eval process is crazy?  Is it your insurance coverage?  I'm all in favor of private, because you're going to get a lot more thorough evals, more time spent, etc.  There are exceptions to that, but generally that's true.  Our np (neuropsych) is private, not with a hospital, and he only takes cash/check.  They might take plastic.  They're not going to necessarily file your insurance for you, so that can be a hurdle to work through.  The hospital psychs will be more money but have that whole structure to handle the insurance junk.  In our area insurance practitioners are generally DOUBLE what private are and that's across the board for everything (OT, speech, psych, etc.).

 

If you are in a position just to call them up and get it done, you can call your neuropsych of choice, make the appointment, and get this done.  It can literally be THAT EASY.  To me the hard part is DECIDING which psych, oy!  That's what has taken me so long both times.   :lol:   I mean, for all my b&w ness, wow do I waffle and struggle!  And that's ok.  It's not something you do all the time, generally just once every 4 years, so you want to take your time, see who's well-regarded, see who's known for giving helpful feedback, see who spends time with them and really slows down.  

 

So it can be as easy as calling and making the psych appointment.  Truly.  

 

The psych I used with my dd was this sort of sin-eater or stress-eater.  I walked in with SO much stress, and he listened to it all, gave us fresh perspective, calmed me, and let us go forward a new way.  I'm hoping it will be the same way with my ds, even though it's a different psych.  So far he's been that way on the phone.

 

I understand the labels issue is hard.  Maybe get the evals, see what's going on, and then decide and work through it?  Better to have the information and get it privately and have it be your choice than not to have the information at all...

 

You're doing GREAT.  You're asking the right questions.  It's just hard.  Like I said, took me a year on my first dc.  This isn't a fun process and there's a lot of grief and seeming finality, and it's ok to be honest about that and say it sucks.  But it doesn't go away by waiting.  It gets better by coming to the other side, getting the evals, finding out what's going on, and making your new normal.  Promise.  :)

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Your story about niggling uncertainty, a definite mismatch to school environment (though yours is worse), communication issues with teachers, definite giftedness, and disapproval by teachers of parenting style are all very familiar. We were there. Evals will help you cut through what is environment and what is not. Or, as we found out, what is environment as well as what is not-typical about our child. We now know it's not just ADHD or just SPD. It's not just giftedness. It's all that as well as PDD-NOS (autism-lite). 

 

I will also say, gently, that there are differential diagnosis for some of these symptoms. It could be severe anxiety plus a mismatch. Anxiety is potentially a big part of all ASD diagnoses. You'll need an evaluation to tease out the possibilities. 

 

On a side note, we just finished up the evaluation team report meetings with the school district to obtain approval for an IEP so that we can access state scholarship money. It's a bear of a process with a gifted student, but you can get special ed services. I would encourage you to get your child home, calm, healthier, and happier, but an IEP or even a Section 504 may be worth pursuing in the future for formal testing accommodations, scholarship money, a track record for college services, etc. RTI is difficult, but it can be worked around depending on state laws. The radio program Bright Not Broken on the Coffee Klatch network (special needs talk radio) has some programs about gifted education and RTI if you want to look them up. They have podcasts as well as archived broadcasts online. My son is not falling behind, but he meets the definition of a student with autism under our state guidelines, and he qualifies for an IEP under that definition. In addition, he may have qualified on social skills needs alone--the speech lady in our district was very candid about her concerns for his social development, and that alone may have qualified him if he hadn't met the definition of a student with autism.

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Your story about niggling uncertainty, a definite mismatch to school environment (though yours is worse), communication issues with teachers, definite giftedness, and disapproval by teachers of parenting style are all very familiar. We were there. Evals will help you cut through what is environment and what is not. Or, as we found out, what is environment as well as what is not-typical about our child. We now know it's not just ADHD or just SPD. It's not just giftedness. It's all that as well as PDD-NOS (autism-lite). 

 

I will also say, gently, that there are differential diagnosis for some of these symptoms. It could be severe anxiety plus a mismatch. Anxiety is potentially a big part of all ASD diagnoses. You'll need an evaluation to tease out the possibilities. 

 

On a side note, we just finished up the evaluation team report meetings with the school district to obtain approval for an IEP so that we can access state scholarship money. It's a bear of a process with a gifted student, but you can get special ed services. I would encourage you to get your child home, calm, healthier, and happier, but an IEP or even a Section 504 may be worth pursuing in the future for formal testing accommodations, scholarship money, a track record for college services, etc. RTI is difficult, but it can be worked around depending on state laws. The radio program Bright Not Broken on the Coffee Klatch network (special needs talk radio) has some programs about gifted education and RTI if you want to look them up. They have podcasts as well as archived broadcasts online. My son is not falling behind, but he meets the definition of a student with autism under our state guidelines, and he qualifies for an IEP under that definition. In addition, he may have qualified on social skills needs alone--the speech lady in our district was very candid about her concerns for his social development, and that alone may have qualified him if he hadn't met the definition of a student with autism.

 

Thanks for all that. It's that niggling uncertainty that is such a bear.

I do think that I feel very encouraged about pursuing testing. Just her being in counseling alone isn't going to give us definitive answers about many things going on.

Thanks for the heads up on the podcast. I'll have to look that one up.

 

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OhElizabeth said so much so directly, that I don't feel like I need to add a lot.  I will say, "AMEN!" to everything OhElizabeth said.  It sounds like there are issues and you KNOW there are issues.  There is nothing keeping you from testing other than "uncertainty".. about what?  I guess I'm not really sure why there is any question about whether testing would help you figure out what your DD needs.

 

I'd agree whole-heartedly with you that private testing is the route to go.  As OhE said, it can be really easy.. find a neuropsychologist, make an appointment, and go.  When you get your evaluation report, you don't even have to share it with ANYONE.  You can read it, gain insight into your DD's cognition, and then work with her exactly where she is and provide her exactly what she needs.

 

I copied your questions and thought I'd answer them:

 

Is it worth it for us to get her tested?  DEFINITELY.  Without testing, you don't REALLY know what's going on.  You can make guesses, but you won't have accurate answers without a comprehensive evaluation.  Knowing our sons' diagnoses was critical for meeting their individual needs.  They had some similar symptoms, but the root causes of their LD issues were quite different, which required totally different approaches with each of them.  You just don't know exactly what's going on without testing.

 

Do we keep her in PS (which she does love) even though we have a tenuous relationship with her current teacher and know that she is having significant downtime.  Not unless you don't mind "The Matthew Effect" where a child's achievement across all subject areas falls year after year for as long as the child's academic needs are not met.  For example, my oldest son scored in the 80th & 90th percentiles when he entered public school.  EVERY year his achievement test scores fell for the five years he was in public school.  By time we pulled him out in fifth grade, ALL but one of his achievement sub-test scores was below the 50th percentile except for one score that was in the 60th percentile range.  Did my son get dumber?? NO! That was "The Matthew Effect" in effect.  When we started homeschooling, his scores started going up year-by-year again. When he took the ACT exam, he scored in the 92nd-99th percentile range other than on one subtest (can't remember what it was right now, but I know it was above the 60th percentile)

 

Do we pull her out mid-year, deschool for a while and then homeschool for 3rd grade? You could do that.  You could bring her home and work on areas you know she needs to work on using some fun programs, or let her delve into Watch, Know, Learn and learn whatever she wants to learn.  You could leave her in school while you line up and get an evaluation, but I'm not sure what benefit there would be in leaving her there.  Truthfully, being in 2nd grade, it isn't going to set her back to pull her out mid-year and if school "ends" for break, unless you tell her or remind her, she may not even notice when school starts back after the break.  If she's involved in learning and activities at home, it could just be a natural transition if you pull her out over the holidays.  I've got a mom who did that with her child, and it was exceptionally easy--I think it is always easier when they are younger.  SO, in many ways, the sooner, the better, especially if you do it at a natural breakpoint, like a major school holiday break. ;-)

 

I know it's a gut-wrenching decision at times, but I'll tell you--my only regret was waiting and sticking with public school for as long as we did.  We were always hopeful things would get better, but they never did and they reached a point of devastation for my son's self-esteem. You can read our story at: http://learningabledkids.com/articles_about_homeschooling/overcoming_learning_disabilities_through_homeschooling.htm. Yep.. My only regret was not homeschooling sooner!!

 

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OhElizabeth said so much so directly, that I don't feel like I need to add a lot.  I will say, "AMEN!" to everything OhElizabeth said.  It sounds like there are issues and you KNOW there are issues.  There is nothing keeping you from testing other than "uncertainty".. about what?  I guess I'm not really sure why there is any question about whether testing would help you figure out what your DD needs.

 

I'd agree whole-heartedly with you that private testing is the route to go.  As OhE said, it can be really easy.. find a neuropsychologist, make an appointment, and go.  When you get your evaluation report, you don't even have to share it with ANYONE.  You can read it, gain insight into your DD's cognition, and then work with her exactly where she is and provide her exactly what she needs.

 

I copied your questions and thought I'd answer them:

 

Is it worth it for us to get her tested?  DEFINITELY.  Without testing, you don't REALLY know what's going on.  You can make guesses, but you won't have accurate answers without a comprehensive evaluation.  Knowing our sons' diagnoses was critical for meeting their individual needs.  They had some similar symptoms, but the root causes of their LD issues were quite different, which required totally different approaches with each of them.  You just don't know exactly what's going on without testing.

 

Do we keep her in PS (which she does love) even though we have a tenuous relationship with her current teacher and know that she is having significant downtime.  Not unless you don't mind "The Matthew Effect" where a child's achievement across all subject areas falls year after year for as long as the child's academic needs are not met.  For example, my oldest son scored in the 80th & 90th percentiles when he entered public school.  EVERY year his achievement test scores fell for the five years he was in public school.  By time we pulled him out in fifth grade, ALL but one of his achievement sub-test scores was below the 50th percentile except for one score that was in the 60th percentile range.  Did my son get dumber?? NO! That was "The Matthew Effect" in effect.  When we started homeschooling, his scores started going up year-by-year again. When he took the ACT exam, he scored in the 92nd-99th percentile range other than on one subtest (can't remember what it was right now, but I know it was above the 60th percentile)

 

Do we pull her out mid-year, deschool for a while and then homeschool for 3rd grade? You could do that.  You could bring her home and work on areas you know she needs to work on using some fun programs, or let her delve into Watch, Know, Learn and learn whatever she wants to learn.  You could leave her in school while you line up and get an evaluation, but I'm not sure what benefit there would be in leaving her there.  Truthfully, being in 2nd grade, it isn't going to set her back to pull her out mid-year and if school "ends" for break, unless you tell her or remind her, she may not even notice when school starts back after the break.  If she's involved in learning and activities at home, it could just be a natural transition if you pull her out over the holidays.  I've got a mom who did that with her child, and it was exceptionally easy--I think it is always easier when they are younger.  SO, in many ways, the sooner, the better, especially if you do it at a natural breakpoint, like a major school holiday break. ;-)

 

I know it's a gut-wrenching decision at times, but I'll tell you--my only regret was waiting and sticking with public school for as long as we did.  We were always hopeful things would get better, but they never did and they reached a point of devastation for my son's self-esteem. You can read our story at: http://learningabledkids.com/articles_about_homeschooling/overcoming_learning_disabilities_through_homeschooling.htm. Yep.. My only regret was not homeschooling sooner!!

 

Thanks so much for all that. I am beyond encouraged with the idea of getting her tested. I think it will eliminate so many of our questions...even if we aren't sure of the answers.

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  • 1 year later...

It's been a long time and I finally got back on here to reply to this thread...

Last year (2nd grade) we started the process of having my dd tested. After lots of testing we found out that she has an auditory processing disorder. I don't doubt that there is some ADD that will show up at some point either - especially if we ever decided to jump back into PS. We kept her in PS through all of 2nd grade and decided to homeschool this year for 3rd grade.

 

She is a totally different child than she was. All of the coping behaviors that we were seeing are completely gone.

Her mood is so much more even - just typical 9 year old girl stuff.

And we've decided to continue our course at home (well - almost 90% sure). I have a very sure suspension that putting her back in PS she will either fall through the cracks bc her IQ is high enough for her to compensate for misunderstood or missed info OR she the ADD that I know is there will become a real issue along with the APD. I'm a former SPED teaching so I'm honestly not worried about the whole IEP/labeled child etc process as much as I'm worried about her sinking back into the anxiety ridden behaviors. There is a very large part of me that desires to keep her home at least through 8th grade - so that we can work together to figure out ways to compensate, accommodate and handle the APD and then when she enters into high school she will have learned how to advocate for herself - knowing what works for her and what doesn't.

 

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That's great news! I can tell you that APD is mostly only handled with 504 plans, and the same with ADHD. You can successfully get accommodations, but remediation is a bit harder. (I have one with combo ADHD and APD). We were able to get my son qualified as "other health impaired" so that he could get some remediation, but that's only because homeschoolers in our state can access special funding for kids with IEPs. He qualified over the objections of part of the ETR team--if we had not had someone go to bat for us, we would not have received much in the way of meaningful help through the school.

 

That's my long way of saying that I think it's good that you are working on this at home with an eye toward self-advocacy later--you would likely be disappointed in the level of support available in elementary. At least in high school, she can really figure out if she's hearing well enough to ask for class notes and such! In elementary school, this is harder to pin down.

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That is so awesome!!  I absolutely love hearing that a lot of a child's behaviors clear up when homeschooling starts.  It took a couple of years for my son to gain back some of his self confidence. He was never quite as bubbly and outgoing as he was when we sent him off to public school, but I was just thankful to see him become happy again.  Homeschooling truly can be transformational!

When we started homeschooling, we planned to homeschool for just a couple of years. We had planned to put our boys back into public school once my son could read.  By time we got to that point, NONE of us had any interest in going back to the public school model.  We loved homeschooling SO MUCH! :-D  So, I ended up homeschooling right on through to high school graduation.  It was awesome.. not always easy, but awesome.

 

THANK YOU for sharing your news!! It will be an encouragement to others who are going through the same sorts of things with their learning abled kids. ;-) 

 

HUGS! 

She is a totally different child than she was. All of the coping behaviors that we were seeing are completely gone.

Her mood is so much more even - just typical 9 year old girl stuff.

And we've decided to continue our course at home (well - almost 90% sure). I have a very sure suspension that putting her back in PS she will either fall through the cracks bc her IQ is high enough for her to compensate for misunderstood or missed info OR she the ADD that I know is there will become a real issue along with the APD.

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This post really spoke to me. I'm currently going through a similar situation with DD who's in kinder. We've seen little progress this year, she started off the school year in at least the 90th percentile across the board. Her teacher is constantly telling me about her inability to focus and how she is not producing "quality" work (whatever that is). My husband and I, both educators, suspect either high functioning Autism or ADHD. She did not qualify for gifted programming; we are fighting this. Tomorrow we have a meeting with a psychologist to get a better idea of what is going on. Thanks for sharing your story.

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This post really spoke to me. I'm currently going through a similar situation with DD who's in kinder. We've seen little progress this year, she started off the school year in at least the 90th percentile across the board. Her teacher is constantly telling me about her inability to focus and how she is not producing "quality" work (whatever that is). My husband and I, both educators, suspect either high functioning Autism or ADHD. She did not qualify for gifted programming; we are fighting this. Tomorrow we have a meeting with a psychologist to get a better idea of what is going on. Thanks for sharing your story.

 

Let us know how your meeting goes. I know it's probably at the meet and greet stage, but keep us posted. 

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This post really spoke to me. I'm currently going through a similar situation with DD who's in kinder. We've seen little progress this year, she started off the school year in at least the 90th percentile across the board. Her teacher is constantly telling me about her inability to focus and how she is not producing "quality" work (whatever that is). My husband and I, both educators, suspect either high functioning Autism or ADHD. She did not qualify for gifted programming; we are fighting this. Tomorrow we have a meeting with a psychologist to get a better idea of what is going on. Thanks for sharing your story.

 

Have you thought of having her evaluated to see whether your suspicions are correct? If there are any disabilities identified, you'll be able to get an IEP or 504 Plan that can provide whatever accommodations she might need to help her through.

 

With that said, I'd try not to worry too much at this point. I understand you're concerned she's not reaching her potential, but in K that doesn't much matter as long as she's keeping up to grade level. My DD has ADHD and was a couple of grade levels ahead when we started official schooling at 5, but last year for most of K (we homeschool) she was so resistant to schooling that all we did was a lot of reading and a lot of playing, some science exploration when the mood struck. She's still now progressing more slowly than she would have if she didn't have attention issues, but we're still ahead of grade level, and I think she's probably even more creative and definitely more happy than she would have been if I'd pushed to keep her progressing at the same pace. (In K, really I think the main goal of school is to learn social skills, and--for public school--adapt to the structure of a school day. She'll naturally develop at whatever pace is right for her, regardless of whether it's at home or at a ps. She may learn the skills more quickly at home, and arguably be more well rounded, but that wouldn't make her any "smarter" in the 3R's and won't affect her later learning.)

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The therapist said disruptive mood dysregulation disorder and AHDH both types. I'm sorry I misspoke earlier, I thought we were going to a psychologist. My husband made the appointment. :-) We are going to start going to therapy every other week to see I we can make any improvements. I'm going to do some more research and figure out what we can do at home for DMDD. I think it's going to be a lot of teaching social skills and behavior management skills.

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**this is somewhat of a repost from the general education forum...

 

My DD is a 2nd grade in our local public school.

Her whole 3 years has been a series of ups and downs. Primarily due to the fact that she is fairly advanced in most subjects and is a very fast learner.

Kindergarten was a bust due to teacher issues and just her advancement. She was seriously stifled reading and math wise as she really was forced to go along with the group. She was reading at nearly a second grade level and the teacher kept sending home 5-10 word per page books. She ended the year with serious stomach related issues that eventually led to an IBS diagnosis.

First grade was better due to a much better teacher, but she developed many coping skills to get her through the day (hair pulling, hair chewing etc). As far as we can tell, her coping skills dealt mainly with having to remain within the boundaries with her behavior etc when she was either done with the assigned work (very quickly) or having to pay attention during group instruction that was way below her level.

Second grade has been much better as far as coping skills and she has a much more structured teacher. But, the teacher lacks greatly in communication with us and after our first conference we realized that our DD spends a lot of down time due to finishing her work quickly. She has struggled this whole time with large group instruction and the teacher has declared her to us as "that kid" that is hard to handle. She struggles with being a distraction to other students bc of her boredom.

 

Our school system is very small and we have a good relationship with the administration and many of the staff from the elementary on up. It does try very hard to provide enrichment options for advanced children and has done so with our girl. She has an enrichment group that she attends (and loves dearly) for about 50 minutes during the day. Our concern is what is happening in the classroom and how much she is really learning. Based on the yearly testing that they do, she is regressing some and while I think a lot of that is due to the fact that she is not a good test taker. There is beginning to be a discrepancy between the assessment and what she is producing in class.

Her teacher is willing to provide extra project based opportunities for her to work on that she can do after she completes her work in the classroom and she has also set up her as a peer tutor for a peer at her work table. I'm 50/50 whether I feel good about these "independent" opportunities for her.

 

Her teacher last year brought up the "gifted" term and we are currently in counseling for her coping issues and her counselor is trying to rule out aspergers. She ticks about half of the boxes for aspergers in girls. I've recently been introduced to the term 2e and I'm beginning to think this is where she slants.

 

All that to say I feel like I'm losing my mind with information and choices. I struggle with thinking that I'm overthinking or looking for things that aren't there.

But my mother's intuition and gut for the longest time is that something is "off" about her. (off in the sense that she's not your average little chick).

She is insanely persistent, can be explosive (verbally) at home and I think she holds that in at school for the most part.

She has no concept of time or money (like none) and tends to give up and "explode" when she is frustrated with a task (for example...last night we were playing Othello and it is a game that she hasn't been able to find a way to cheat - which is  something she tends to do with everything - when she realized that she wasn't going to win and couldn't find a way to make it happen she began to escalate. She was huffing and puffing, yelling, kicking and just getting really frustrated. She just wanted me to tell her the answer so we could just go ahead and be done. I was able to talk her down -and enticed her with a "reward" at the end for sticking with it and she was able to accept the loss. This is a very typical reponse to many things).

 

We just aren't sure where to go.

Is it worth it for us to get her tested?

Do we keep her in PS (which she does love) even though we have a tenuous relationship with her current teacher and know that she is having significant downtime

or do we pull her out mid-year, deschool for a while and then homeschool for 3rd grade?

We have homeschooled our oldest in the past and I am a former teacher so the idea of keeping her home isn't out of our comfort zone...we just aren't sure the best step to take.

Based on this alone I would push for evaluations.

 

Mom intuition is valuable, and very often right.  Having evaluations done will give you some answers and (hopefully) make you less overwhelmed by choices.  It will probably raise more questions, too, but at least they will be the next layer of questions as you work to understand who your child is and what her needs are.

 

As far as whether or not to keep her in public school, that is a very nuanced question and very personal.  I would, and did, take my DD out for those reasons (and a few others).

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