High School Math - Algebra I and beyond.... advice needed

[Maddysmom26]

 My question is this..

 

In NY we only need 2 units of Math for high school.  My dd HATES math! We are working through Saxon Algebra I . Some days she works right through it and others not so much. Today was frustrating so we just took a break. We are on lesson 8 now for this year. 

 

 My question is .. are there other options for math?  or  should we just take our time and work through this even if it takes longer than a year? Because we have 4 yrs to do 2 units of math. Right now she does not want to go to college.. I am hoping this changes and I am trying to get all her credits in order so that if she changes her mind she has what she needs.  But the biggest struggle is math.

Any advice is appreciated!

 

ps.. this is our first year HS'ing high school. we did HS 5th grade and then she was in a PS for middle grades. So we are still adjusting to the change.

[kiana]

If you're sure it's a "hates math" and not "hates Saxon" (in other words, did she still hate it in PS?) and that she is properly placed (did you do the placement test?), then yes, just work through it even if it takes longer. You should also work through the summer.

[Kareni]

It's possible that your daughter may change her mind about going on to college, and ninth grade is early to begin closing doors to future possibilities.  My suggestion would be to make sure that she is ready for Algebra 1.  You might also consider choosing another curriculum if Saxon is not working for your daughter.  In my family, we used Margaret Lial's Algebra books as we are not Saxon fans.

 

Regards,

Kareni

[bettyandbob]

There's also teaching text books and video text (are they still around). Completing enough math to be college bound was never optional for us. There was a point where I got samples of several curricula (that I felt were acceptable) and met dd choose which one to use.

[Maddysmom26]

She has always hated math and struggled even in PS. We didn't do the placement but she has done some algebra previously in PS. So she is familiar with some of the work so far which is helping.  I guess we will just take our time and work through it. thank you

[Orthodox6]

If high school math goes lss well than you hope, if she attends a community college, she will have a second chance owing to required remedial courses. Sometimes a young adult with low interest in attending college can be persuaded to pursue an associates degree from a CC -- sometimes the interest will grow in continuing at a four-year college. If not, an A.S. or an A.A. shows potential employers that the applicant has put in serious effort to prepare for the work force.

[kiana]

I would strongly, strongly recommend doing the placement as well to look for weak areas. It is VERY common for students exiting PS to have weak areas, sometimes as far back as second or third grade math, which have NEVER been caught. Since PS usually wants to have all the students doing the same curriculum in the same year (and in some cases states have banned offering developmental math in HS, which is just dumb), they don't stop to fill these holes, but keep plugging through.

 

It does not have to be Saxon's placement, but you should make sure that her foundation, especially in fractions, is solid before you try to continue.

[Jen in NY]

I will relate this one story that I have told before.... (with the knowledge that many of my friends and their children have used and loved Saxon over the years......)

 

In eighth grade, we did Saxon Algebra. My daughter *hated* it. There were tears. There were fits. It wasn't pretty. We agreed that she would finish exactly 80% of the pages and throw the thing out the window. Which we did.

 

I heard (probably via this board) about the Art of Problem Solving. I gingerly asked dd #1 if she would be willing to give one of the short courses a try over the summer to see if she liked it, since so many people here loved it. She said, "okay." But not enthusiastically.

 

She LOVED the class. It was Number Theory.... she found it absolutely fascinating and loved the atmosphere of the AoPS website. It made math like a game, in a way... a very challenging game. She signed up for Geometry in the fall, and then took every available AoPS class until she took APCalc senior year in high school.

 

When she applied for college, she quoted that very first AoPS Number Theory text in her essay.

 

And away she went. :)

 

Don't get me wrong... I am not suggesting that AoPS is the answer for everyone... just that a math program can make it or break it with some kids. If we had continued with Saxon, I guarantee that my dd would not be an engineering major ... she would have given math up the second she had the chance.

 

Keep looking. There's something out there that will be a better fit, for sure.

 

Cheers,

Jen

 

 

[wapiti]

 Today was frustrating so we just took a break. We are on lesson 8 now for this year. 

 

I would look into why it is frustrating.  Isn't the beginning review?  Maybe there is something foundational that needs some work before plowing ahead with algebra.

 

My question is .. are there other options for math?  or  should we just take our time and work through this even if it takes longer than a year? 

 

Yes, of course there are many, many other options and it isn't too late to try something else.  Saxon isn't a style well-suited to every student.  I would try to figure out what your student's learning needs are and/or what she is so frustrated about - is it that she doesn't remember how to do the math - and maybe needs the organization of a program like Saxon - or that she doesn't like how the lessons are organized, or are there too many problems, too boring, too hard/wrong placement level, too...whatever.  Sit down with her while she works, and talk, to see if you can figure out whether it's the program or the level or missing holes.

 

eta, if the organization is bothering her, realize that there are many options organized into chapters with one main topic per chapter, an organization that she might recognize from school textbooks.  If you describe more about her prior math experience (e.g. what text she used in PS for prealgebra, what her performance was like, what she likes/dislikes about Saxon), I'm sure posters would be happy to suggest alternatives.

 

Because we have 4 yrs to do 2 units of math. Right now she does not want to go to college.. I am hoping this changes and I am trying to get all her credits in order so that if she changes her mind she has what she needs.  But the biggest struggle is math.

 

To leave the door open for college should she decide later, I would shoot for four credits if possible or at least three.

[Mom22ns]

I would NOT torture a child who hates math and doesn't have college aspirations with Saxon. Of course, I actually wouldn't torture any child with Saxon. Saxon is a love it or hate it program. I have never heard of a math hater, loving Saxon.

 

Seriously consider switching to a different Algebra program. In your shoes, I'd try to let her look at TT and see if she likes it. You can get a copy of Lial's delivered for $4.00. See if either one makes math less painful and therefore more easily endured. While you are only required to have 2 credits, you really want to get through Algebra 1, Geometry and Algebra 2 if you want to keep those college doors open. 

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

I would strongly, strongly recommend doing the placement as well to look for weak areas. It is VERY common for students exiting PS to have weak areas, sometimes as far back as second or third grade math, which have NEVER been caught. Since PS usually wants to have all the students doing the same curriculum in the same year (and in some cases states have banned offering developmental math in HS, which is just dumb), they don't stop to fill these holes, but keep plugging through.

 

It does not have to be Saxon's placement, but you should make sure that her foundation, especially in fractions, is solid before you try to continue.

Yes 1000%.  If she is hating math, there may be critical weak areas.  Take placement tests to see where there may be gaps.  I agree, it doesn't have to be Saxon.  

 

Maybe have her run through the Key to workbooks for fractions, decimals, percents, THEN to the Key to Algebra workbook.  Do level one of those, then level two etc.  Help solidify any gaps.

 

And you might look at Hands On Equations.  Really awesome.  Saxon may be a horrible fit for her.  Try something else and go back a bit to check those basic concepts.  We are doing it here and it has been a huge help.  

 

FWIW, I hated math and struggled terribly.  Why?  Because I moved too fast through basic math materials in school and had not mastered everything at the level I needed to be able to function in higher level math.  Going back and doing the Key to series has been great for me, too.

 

Hugs, OP.  And good luck.

[Maddysmom26]

Thank you all for your advice! I really appreciate it!

 

In PS they never had a text book they only used work sheets and notes etc.. from the teacher . Her average  was always in the 80s.

 

I think its more of a boring, when will I use this attitude!! Because when she actually sits down concentrates and does the work she does fine.

 

Def. going to do the placement & see where we are and what the weak areas are . I think we will continue to work through Saxon while we checkout some other options.

 

TT was the other option that I looked at originally.. But its so hard to decide what will work or not work. :confused1:  but we will def be check out some other options.

 

  thank you again for the suggestions!!

[Jen in NY]

There is a way to check out AoPS for free, if you'd like. Go to the website: www.aops.com. Make an account with a user name you don't care about in case she wants to use AoPS eventually. :) Check out the Alcumus section... try the pre-alg problems. It's the type of thing that gives you a detailed solution, and it's doubly important to read the explanation when you get a problem wrong. (I get many problems on alcumus wrong, lol.) You can also check out the videos section ... my son thinks Richard Rusczyk is the funniest thing going.

 

Good luck, wherever you land!

[OneStepAtATime]

If it is boredom then I definitely agree with Jen, check out AoPS.  So much more interesting!  You might look at incorporating math games, too.

[Lanny]

I agree with previous posters in this thread. Two (2) years of Math is not sufficient. If your DD graduates with only 2 years, and then decides she would like to attend college, the only colleges that will admit her (probably this is correct) are community colleges and there she will need to  take a *lot* of Remedial Math to catch up. Try for 3 years of Math, and preferably 4 years.  There may be an underlying lack of understanding of Arithmetic that is frustrating her, as well as possibly the material she is studying. GL

[Mom22ns]

In PS they never had a text book they only used work sheets and notes etc.. from the teacher . Her average  was always in the 80s.

 

I never think of grades in the 80s as bad - its Bs and there is nothing wrong with that, but I do want to take a different perspective on that. If she is getting grades in the 80s she may NOT understand somewhere between 11-20% of the material covered in each chapter. Math, being the cumulative, building subject that it is, can actually really haunt you over that 15-ish percent. That can cover some significant and important concepts. It can also just be some simple mistakes and mean nothing at all.

 

I know, you already said you'd do some placement test and check for holes. I think you're on the right track. I just wanted to add that moment of perspective. I doubt it was worth .02, but there it was anyway :).

[Hoot]

Just a thought, but my son absolutely detests math and always has.  We did Teaching Textbooks for 2 yrs. and it was like pulling teeth.  Everyone said it was the easiest route for a child who needed to be independent but who just wasn't at all "mathy."

 

Both years tanked in a big way.

 

This year I went with Saxon Algebra 1 because we already had it.  I was cautioned not to use it for a variety of reasons, but I couldn't justify buying yet another curriculum.  I have found a couple of things that have helped A LOT with both my math-phobic DS AND myself.  At this point, I am in LOVE with the way Saxon lays everything out and DS has said that it makes much more sense than any other curriculum ever has, including Teaching Textbooks.

 

First, if you can work along with her, that will probably go a long way. 

 

Second, work a few troubling problems with her on a white board for each lesson.

 

Third, read the chapter and take notes.  A lot of people don't take notes in math and, as a result, end up skimming more than actually learning.

 

And finally, allow her to keep the answer key open in front of her with a sheet of paper covering the current problem set. Have her work each problem and check it in the key as she goes along.  This avoids the problem of getting through a whole lesson having worked all of the problems wrong.  DS and I are both immediately corrected if our answer differs from that of the key.  However, before looking at the process in the answer key, she should look back at the problem to see if she can figure out what she did wrong.  If she really can't figure it out, look in the key, rework it and make sure she really understands before moving on.  Also, make generous use of those teeny little numbers under each problem number.  That tells you what lesson that particular problem was taught in.  If she doesn't understand, have her return to that lesson to figure it out.