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Tell me my kindergartner is fine. JAWM


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I'm not looking for criticism. Please be supportive and encouraging. 

Due to personality and circumstances, I've decided to go very, very easy on my 5 yr old. I am providing him with books, both reading books and school books, reading to him often, practicing basic math concepts, providing educational toys and activities, etc, etc, etc. But I'm not doing formal, structured lessons with him. 

 

I started my other kids at 3 and 4. I don't think such an early start was all that helpful. This kid is resistant to anything that isn't 100% his idea. He is very bright and knows plenty. If I push him, he will push back and we will go nowhere. 

 

Tell me that he is fine with sporadic lessons. Tell me that he learning in lots of other ways. Tell me that NOT fighting with him and preserving both his relationship with me and his relationship with learning is the important thing. 

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Yes, absolutely this is fine.  He is only 5.  Kids are not something manufactured in a plant.  Each one is unique and has a different time table for development and a different set of needs/strengths/weaknesses/interests.  He will learn.  Don't destroy his love of learning and your relationship with him.  Maybe others will disagree but I think you are doing the right thing.  I wish with all my heart I had taken that path with my oldest.  She would have done so much better and been so much happier.  

 

Hugs.

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You are not going to ruin him. There are a lot of people who choose to do a delayed or gentle start to formal schooling. You are providing your child with opportunities to grow and learn through reading, play, etc. You can choose to fight with him now and get to point ABC by the end of this school year, or you can choose to wait a year, and then get to point ABC in 6 weeks next school year.

 

It's similar to potty training. With my oldest, I started when she was 18 months old, and we were actively working on potty training for a year and a half. With my youngest, I waited until she was older, and she potty trained much faster. End result: two children who were potty trained by age three.

 

One thing to think about: if it is simply a case of maturity, you can expect that he will be ready in a year or two. However, if he is resistant to things that are not his idea, will that personality trait resolve itself by next year? You might want to take steps toward creating excitement for school so that he wants to do it next year. Or you might want to matter-of-factory prepare him for next year. Tell him frequently, "when you are six, you will start start like your older siblings." No discussion, no arguing.

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Of course you're fine. :thumbup:

 

Whoever defined "learning" as "sitting down with a little person who is ONLY FIVE YEARS OLD and making him do stuff that looks Just Like School" might be an idiot. Just sayin'...

 

One of the comments that inspired me long ago when I was deciding whether I should withdraw my little 6yo person from school was something I read in a John Holt magazine. It was Aristotle, or Socrates, or one of those old Greek guys who cautioned parents not to force their children into any certain kind of learning, because they might miss their genius. I never wanted to miss my children's genius. Probably you don't want to miss your ds's, either. So don't. :-)

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Reading aloud daily, practicing math with real world things, and education games sounds like a delightful kindergarten, even for a student that could do more formal lessons.

 

One of the beauties of homeschooling is that you can give your child school that is appropriate for their ability and that you don't have to force them into a certain lesson at a certain point in time. I think that even if I were to stop homeschooling older grades, I would still homeschool kindergarten just because children can vary so vastly in their ability and I don't want academic labels stuck on my kids when they're only 5.

 

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You are all wonderful. Truly. Exactly what I KNOW and needed to hear today. 

 

He is maturing a great deal. He has some medical/behavioral issues that are resolving. Thank heavens. We are working on a LOT of character stuff. He is so much like me. I want to help him in ways that I wasn't helped. He also pushes my buttons in crazy-making ways. 

 

I'm not really very worried about next year. We are very hands on, little seat work, and he's a motivated learner. This is working so well for him. I just need to let go of my expectations. Deep breaths. 

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Good for you for learning from your past experience and for going against the grain. Even when we know, though objective research, that a slower start is better for most kids, it's so, so hard to fight that constant pressure from society. You're being brave and he's definitely going to be fine. Probably better than fine. :)

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Really nothing? Or just nothing formal? And they are fine? really?

 

No criticism, just trying to absorb this. 

 

Kindy for my kids was Handwriting Without Tears and reading SOTW, though I would have dropped the latter if they hadn't enjoyed it so much. That was the extent of formal. We read a lot of books and played games and pulled out the C-rods sometimes. But it was nothing like the line ups that I see from a lot of people on this board. I have zero regrets about it.

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You are more than fine. You are doing the right thing. In fact, you are going to be astonished with just how well this one turns out. It is hard to let go and not push, but it really can be a marvelous thing. Plus, he is your third. He will just be picking stuff up through osmosis to a great degree. Yep, I think you are on the right path. Keep strolling along.

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I've only done 2 k years so far and they've both been rather laid back, especially with my son. At 5 school was a stack of books for read aloud, games (including ones that had some math) and some drawing around outside (which progressed to HWoT half way through the year. We read about all kinds of wonderful things. We explored the world and did nature studies, we had lots of time outside. We went weekly to the library story time and visited daddy at work for lunch another day. We sang songs, we did our chores and had a lot of fun. 

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The more experienced I get with homeschooling, the more convinced I am that school can wait. Some kids are ready for formal academics sooner than others but I think ALL kids benefit from less emphasis on academics and more emphasis on play.

 

Watch this short video The Importance of Play. What you are doing is exactly what a 5 year old needs.

 

Susan in TX

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You don't need to go any farther than the WTM book. They don't advocate for formal kindergarten at ALL.

 

And I know that "at least it's better than public school" is not a very strong argument, especially not around here, but seriously. Our elementary school does okay by most kids, and you know what they are doing right now in kindergarten? Counting to 3 and learning the sound that letter 'M' makes.

 

I think books, especially read-alouds, and informal play with math manipulatives, as well as exploring the world around them and digging in the dirt and noticing the variety of plant and animal life and smells and textures, would get kids as far or farther -- easily.

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Wise plan! :) And even further encouragementĂ¢â‚¬Â¦ If you don't start any *formal* sit-down schooling until age 7, your DS will ALSO be fine. :)

 

Enjoy your relaxed journey together! Lots of read-alouds, discovery-play / informal learning, and nature walks, some educational games and videos, fun arts and crafts, science kits and experiments...

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Really nothing? Or just nothing formal? And they are fine? really?

 

No criticism, just trying to absorb this.

We had no curriculum. We had no school time. We went on nature walks. We cooked, we played games, we tidied, we shopped, but mostly they played and played and played... We played at math. I read aloud, many times throughout the day, as I always had. They all learned to read before K was over, but I didn't use a reading program. They asked me to teach them to read while reading regular ol' books, so I taught them with regular ol' books. When they wanted a lesson, they asked for one, and they chose their own book to bring to me to learn. When they wanted to stop, we stopped. It was just part of life.

 

My DD has an early fall birthday, so she missed the cutoff for school. She wanted to start 1st early because older DS's school looked fun. I said OK, no problem. Then after a while, she didn't want to work. OK, no problem. LOL She went back to Kindy, which is to say no work was required of her anymore. Something like that happened with DS8 too, due to two older siblings having fun at school (from his POV). The grass was greener, and I let them munch on it when they wanted to, but I didn't require work. (Now DD is in 4th grade, but working above grade level. She could easily be called 5th grade, no problem, but I am leveraging that year against potential setbacks in maturity, academics, whatever. LOL)

 

In the interest of full honesty, I did plan an awesome K year for my oldest DS. He was my earliest reader and has always been a wonder at math. He was so far ahead, I thought of course I should do something wonderful for K, so I planned something wonderful. Then DH got deployed to Iraq for 15 months, and there I was with three kids (5, 4, and 2) doing all the work of life on my own. DS had a very hard time dealing with his Daddy being gone, and he just plain didn't need school. He needed to be (my affectionate name for the last bastion of youngest childhood) a Kindy baby. After that I decided to let everyone be a Kindy baby if they wanted to. Really, I never thought formal school was good for K age kids. Truthfully, I was just eager to start. But that is not a good reason to start. It may be the worst reason! LOL

 

When I say they played and played and played, I mean it. They spent hours on the swing set, in the 8x8 sandbox DH built for them, in the pool (backyard kiddie and city), climbing the cliff behind our house, planting and maintaining their own little square foot garden plots, putting on puppet shows, setting up shops with their play stands.... The most prominent feature of our Kindy program (LOL) was a huge set of wooden blocks along with play figures, cars, and play silks. There was very, very little screen time. No computers, tablets, phone play.

 

Only because you asked, I will tell you that they are all better than fine academically. My kids are in 6th, 4th, and 3rd now, and they all work, to varying degrees, ahead of grade level. I also believe they are better off emotionally for having had one more year free of academic expectations. I tell them all the time, you get a finite amount of time in life to be a child. Once you are a grown up, a train you can't stop, it is forever. Enjoy it. Don't rush it.

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Really nothing? Or just nothing formal? And they are fine? really?

 

No criticism, just trying to absorb this. 

 

"Kindergarten" is just a term used by schools today to designate children who are 5ish who are in class daily. It has no intrinsic meaning. :-) Parents have been teaching their little 5yo persons for a gazillion years without doing any such thing as "kindergarten." :-)

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You gave me very good advice when I decided to start the Trivium in third grade and enjoy doing little kid things with my last little kid while he is still little. I am giving it back to you. Please give it back to me the next time I burn myself out feeling guilty about not being the model on the cover of the Sonlight catalogue or getting my kid a full scholarship to HAAAAAH-vuhd at the age of 10 because that'll show everybody who said I'd never amount to anything. ;)

 

I think questioning our sound judgement just goes with the territory of loving littles.

 

FWIW, I used Laurel Springs (expensive and accredited school in a box) with my 25 year old for the first few years. Kindy was letter of the week. First grade was the first set of Bob Books and Peggy Kaye's Games for Reading.

 

Common Core is not considered developmentally appropriate by many experts. Louise Bates Ames will back you up the next time you tell me to chill out so she'll back me up while I bounce your own excellent advice right back at you.

 

 

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He will be fine with sporadic lessons at 5, or no lessons at all.

 

Is he allowed to vegetate in front of a screen for numerous hours a day, with no chances for active play and interaction? If not, then he is learning lots in other ways. 

No. Extremely limited screen time. Saturday morning cartoons, PBS Kids on Sunday. Occasionally (2-3 times a week) 1 hr or less of educational computer games. 20-30 minutes or music videos with daddy 3 or so times a week. 

1-3 hours of outside time, minimum. At least 3 hours of free play with open ended toys. A craft/art time almost every day. Therapeutic/learning toys on school days. 2-3 stories minimum each day, including math, letters, stories and literature at and above his level. Constant access to a variety or books. One hour nap every day. 

 

He's doing ok, yeah?

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We had no curriculum. We had no school time. We went on nature walks. We cooked, we played games, we tidied, we shopped, but mostly they played and played and played... We played at math. I read aloud, many times throughout the day, as I always had. They all learned to read before K was over, but I didn't use a reading program. They asked me to teach them to read while reading regular ol' books, so I taught them with regular ol' books. When they wanted a lesson, they asked for one, and they chose their own book to bring to me to learn. When they wanted to stop, we stopped. It was just part of life.

 

My DD has an early fall birthday, so she missed the cutoff for school. She wanted to start 1st early because older DS's school looked fun. I said OK, no problem. Then after a while, she didn't want to work. OK, no problem. LOL She went back to Kindy, which is to say no work was required of her anymore. Something like that happened with DS8 too, due to two older siblings having fun at school (from his POV). The grass was greener, and I let them munch on it when they wanted to, but I didn't require work. (Now DD is in 4th grade, but working above grade level. She could easily be called 5th grade, no problem, but I am leveraging that year against potential setbacks in maturity, academics, whatever. LOL)

 

In the interest of full honesty, I did plan an awesome K year for my oldest DS. He was my earliest reader and has always been a wonder at math. He was so far ahead, I thought of course I should do something wonderful for K, so I planned something wonderful. Then DH got deployed to Iraq for 15 months, and there I was with three kids (5, 4, and 2) doing all the work of life on my own. DS had a very hard time dealing with his Daddy being gone, and he just plain didn't need school. He needed to be (my affectionate name for the last bastion of youngest childhood) a Kindy baby. After that I decided to let everyone be a Kindy baby if they wanted to. Really, I never thought formal school was good for K age kids. Truthfully, I was just eager to start. But that is not a good reason to start. It may be the worst reason! LOL

 

When I say they played and played and played, I mean it. They spent hours on the swing set, in the 8x8 sandbox DH built for them, in the pool (backyard kiddie and city), climbing the cliff behind our house, planting and maintaining their own little square foot garden plots, putting on puppet shows, setting up shops with their play stands.... The most prominent feature of our Kindy program (LOL) was a huge set of wooden blocks along with play figures, cars, and play silks. There was very, very little screen time. No computers, tablets, phone play.

 

Only because you asked, I will tell you that they are all better than fine academically. My kids are in 6th, 4th, and 3rd now, and they all work, to varying degrees, ahead of grade level. I also believe they are better off emotionally for having had one more year free of academic expectations. I tell them all the time, you get a finite amount of time in life to be a child. Once you are a grown up, a train you can't stop, it is forever. Enjoy it. Don't rush it.

Thanks you for this. This is perfect. Exactly what I want. Exactly what he needs. 

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You gave me very good advice when I decided to start the Trivium in third grade and enjoy doing little kid things with my last little kid while he is still little. I am giving it back to you. Please give it back to me the next time I burn myself out feeling guilty about not being the model on the cover of the Sonlight catalogue or getting my kid a full scholarship to HAAAAAH-vuhd at the age of 10 because that'll show everybody who said I'd never amount to anything. ;)

 

I think questioning our sound judgement just goes with the territory of loving littles.

 

FWIW, I used Laurel Springs (expensive and accredited school in a box) with my 25 year old for the first few years. Kindy was letter of the week. First grade was the first set of Bob Books and Peggy Kaye's Games for Reading.

 

Common Core is not considered developmentally appropriate by many experts. Louise Bates Ames will back you up the next time you tell me to chill out so she'll back me up while I bounce your own excellent advice right back at you.

You are right. I feel a little silly, because I KNOW what I know, but that little bit of doubt. Ugh. It gets me. 

 

And it's true, even the little that I did with Sagg, which was NOTHING like the lists I am seeing now, was too much. We just had a poignant conversation over his writing in which he questioned why I didn't teach him differently when he was younger. I told him I don't know what he needs until he needs it. He doesn't learn like me, so I can't teach him the way I learned. I can't expect him to learn the way I did. I tried. It didn't work. 

I used Gem as an example. He learns like me. I taught myself. He will teach himself. What he wants, when he wants. {Lightbulb} 

Sagg's response- "He doesn't like to be lectured. I do." Bless his heart. 

 

My children know what they need. I just have to listen. 

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In my experience, pushing kids before they are ready leads to frustration on both sides and kills their desire.  My 4 yo son last year exhibited signs of aptitude when it came to reading.  He has known his letters since 2.  We did basic beginning letter sounds, but there were days that he would rather play legos, and I totally let him.  He wanted nothing to do with sitting down to learn to read last year.  He is in kindergarten this year and is begging to learn how to read now.  I waited for my oldest until he was almost 6 to learn how to read, and he took off in kindergarten.  That said, my kids are different than yours, and you know your son best.  

 

You don't want to kill his love of learning.  Many children are not ready for formal lessons until 6 or older, and that is just fine.  However, you are reading to him and helping him learn all he needs to in the manner he needs to learn it.  That is the very best of homeschooling by tailoring learning to the way the child best learns.  Kindergarten is supposed to be gentle.  So many kids take an extra year for maturity and readiness for kindergarten because it looks more like first grade now.  But we really don't have to worry about all those grade levels in homeschooling and can just keep moving forward wherever the child is at in whatever way the child best learns.  You are better than fine...you are achieving the ultimate goal in homeschooling.  Kudos!

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You know, my state will not even accept HSing registrations for a 5YO. Thus, while the state will admit a 5YO to PS (if s/he turned 5 before a certain date in the summer), it obviously doesn't consider formal lessons necessary. I think most states are similar. (My parents started school at 1st grade--their district didn't even offer kindergarten in the early '60s.)

 

Some read-alouds, some mud pies, and some games will be fine.

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Lots of states don't require school attendance until age 6 or 7. My mother went to kindergarten but she said they did nothing academic back then. They mostly they played games, colored, sang songs, etc. My mother became an RN and did very well all throughout her school years. My FIL didn't go to K because his school didn't have it.

 

I wouldn't worry a bit about a five-year-old not having a lot of structured academics. I did do K with my kids, but it was very, very short lessons. I think you're fine!

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He is fine! My third child (a second grader) is begging for another lesson of Fred, another chapter in our read aloud, another day in his phonics. He sneaks off with his reader after I say we're done for the day. He gets a kick out of his CLE math and LA. He tries hard in his copywork and memorization, and takes such pride in his accomplishments. He loves his history. He answers questions in science and understands a lot of it. Last year it was like pulling teeth for him to read half a page and write two words, he wouldn't stay put during history, and was a constant distraction. He did love listening to the little house books, though. In K, I let him go at his own pace; he never topped fifteen minutes of work per day.

He turns eight in March. I'm so grateful for the opportunity to homeschool him. He'd have the light sucked out of him in b&m school, bc he'd be in trouble all day and think he was dumb.

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I'm one of those uptight homeschoolers who starts formal lessons at 4.

With that said, that's because I have children who benefit from such things. If my youngest (now 2) doesn't seem amenable to such early formal academics, you bet your booty I would hold off. 

Even now, when you look at my list, while it seems like an awful lot, the only three things we do daily are math, handwriting, and phonics - the rest is lit based, lol (read: mom reads to him from quality children's books or just plain fun books - not formal at ALL for history, science, and religion). We don't get to math every day ;)

DS5 only does the formal memory work program because he likes following along with sissy, and because DD13 works better when she's "competing" - yes, even against her 5 year old brother, lol!

Don't be intimidated by our lists. Often they are lists of resources we use - when we get the chance - not necessarily things that we are doing daily, rigidly. Formal academics on no-math days takes DS a grand total of 20 minutes with phonics and handwriting; on days when we DO math, it's an hour tops (only that long because he loves math).

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Due to personality and circumstances, I've decided to go very, very easy on my 5 yr old. I am providing him with books, both reading books and school books, reading to him often, practicing basic math concepts, providing educational toys and activities, etc, etc, etc. But I'm not doing formal, structured lessons with him. 

 

 

This is what I do with my kids until they are age 8.  I have a bin set up for my 6 yro full of books, easy readers, those little National Geographic readers, a phonics workbook, a handwriting workbook and a Singapore workbook.  If she feels like grabbing the handwriting workbook out and doing a page - great!  If she wants to read a book about dinosaurs - we do that.  I just let her choose whatever she feels like doing that day.      

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Wise plan! :) And even further encouragementĂ¢â‚¬Â¦ If you don't start any *formal* sit-down schooling until age 7, your DS will ALSO be fine. :)

 

Enjoy your relaxed journey together! Lots of read-alouds, discovery-play / informal learning, and nature walks, some educational games and videos, fun arts and crafts, science kits and experiments...

This. I didn't start anything formal with my oldest until 7.5, except some sporadic math that she enjoyed. She is in 9th grade now, and at or above grade level in everything....and it's not that she's a genius or anything. (My younger started earlier because she insisted on being just like sister, but it was strictly at her pleasure until around 7-8.) Until then, lots of stories, play, snuggles, outside time, quiet time, worms, dirt, cookies, and just experiencing life as your family lives and values it. What a perfect foundation on which to build an intellect and a life!

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I'm one of those uptight homeschoolers who starts formal lessons at 4.

With that said, that's because I have children who benefit from such things. If my youngest (now 2) doesn't seem amenable to such early formal academics, you bet your booty I would hold off. 

Even now, when you look at my list, while it seems like an awful lot, the only three things we do daily are math, handwriting, and phonics - the rest is lit based, lol (read: mom reads to him from quality children's books or just plain fun books - not formal at ALL for history, science, and religion). We don't get to math every day ;)

DS5 only does the formal memory work program because he likes following along with sissy, and because DD13 works better when she's "competing" - yes, even against her 5 year old brother, lol!

Don't be intimidated by our lists. Often they are lists of resources we use - when we get the chance - not necessarily things that we are doing daily, rigidly. Formal academics on no-math days takes DS a grand total of 20 minutes with phonics and handwriting; on days when we DO math, it's an hour tops (only that long because he loves math).

You know, actually when I write out my list, it's pretty impressive. It's kind of vague :) but I do hit all the important stuff. It's just the lack of consistency that makes me feel like we aren't doing enough. I KNOW that's not true. But it FEELS like it's not enough. 

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I need to ease up.  For real. 

 

Me too. Thank you for starting this very timely thread. I'll probably need another one again  same time next year. ;)

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He's five. Don't rot his brain by just sitting him in front of a computer or tv screen, but you certainly don't have to do formal lessons.

Lots of learning can be learned by life. For math - count or do word problems. If we have four people in our family and three more are visiting, how many plates do we have to set. If each person in the family wants three cookies, how many cookies should we make. Measure things, play with volumes and balance.

Read lots of books. Check out books on whatever subject interests him. Go on a nature walk. Explore. Play board games.

 

Lessons don't have to be structured (or planned) for learning to take place.

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Ack. We are doing story math. I noticed today that he doesn't add well at all. My three year old was getting the answers right, but he wasn't.

I might have slightly skewed expectations because my other kids are extra mathy and he's not. Not that mastering addition in kindy is a necessity. Just different from my experience. 

 

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You know, one thing I'm forgetting is that we didn't do school everyday until 3rd or 4th grade, even with my older kids. I had workbooks, but we had a 4 day weeks, at most. 

 

I need to ease up.  For real. 

Hey, you aren't the only one! I like JUST realized that unless I plan on instructing the children in either a drug induced haze (post-op pain meds), on a pain haze, they are taking a 2 week break. My 13 year old was psyched to help instruct her younger brother, but unfortunately life got in the way and we need her more in "fun" ways (like taking said brother to play ball outside) or calming the meltdowns with her 2 year old brother when he tires of our sitter, and not mom, picking him up.

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