Monkey bars and handwriting

[MistyMountain]

I heard somewhere that before your kid learns to write they should learn to do the monkey bars. I am not sure if I believe that or not it is one of the brain gym type of things I think common with people who also try to fix the retained reflex thing.

 

I think though in theory it makes sense since there is a lot of fine motor skill in the task. Anyway ds is very weak in handwriting and can't do the monkey bars yet either. He will be six in a little over a week. I guess this is a little on the late side but who knows. I have no idea when kids typically learn that skill but I think dd learned that earlier. I never liked monkey and always had horrible handwriting. ;) Anyway I just wanted to see if others anecdote matches that too.

[Farrar]

Huh. I'm guessing this is like the whole crawling - reading connection. True only for a really, really large sample and not at all at the individual level.

 

My kids both were not good writers early on and both were late to learn the monkey bars. One of them has nice print now and the other one is atrocious, but the atrocious one is the better monkey bar climber, so no correlation there.

[momacacia]

Gosh, I still struggle with the monkey bars. Lol. But I had nice handwriting and can do calligraphy if necessary. I'm real good at the slide, though. ;)

[regentrude]

never liked monkey bars, can do them but am not good - OTOH, my handwriting is beautiful.

 

I also don't see monkey bars as an exercise in fine motor skills - it's more about gross motor skills and strength, none of which has much to do with handwriting.

[MotherGoose]

Whenever I tried to do the monkey bars, my shoulders & arms hurt, not my fingers.  Neither one of my kids can do monkey bars, and quite honestly I don't know if I could either :)

[IsabelC]

I always had nice handwriting (boast: I was first in my school class to be awarded my Pen License!) and never mastered monkey bars. As Regentrude said, monkey bars is gross motor and penmanship is fine motor. Are you sure this "advice" isn't just meaning that kids should have ample time to exercise and play outside rather than being pushed into too much academics too soon? 

[Spring Flower]

I've heard the monkey bar thing before, too. It does take a certain degree of grip strength to handle the monkey bars and *could* help a child develop some of the muscles the are useful to handwriting. Will it make a big difference? Probably not. My children started writing before learning the monkey bars. Their writing didn't improve after. Neither have very good handwriting. 

[LivingHope]

My two boys swung impressively on monkey bars yesterday. They said they couldn't do any handwriting today because of their monkey bar blisters. ;-)

[Korrale]

I always had nice handwriting (boast: I was first in my school class to be awarded my Pen License!) and never mastered monkey bars. As Regentrude said, monkey bars is gross motor and penmanship is fine motor. Are you sure this "advice" isn't just meaning that kids should have ample time to exercise and play outside rather than being pushed into too much academics too soon?

I didn't get my pen license until the end of 6th grade! I still have terrible handwriting.

However my boast, I was one of 2 that could do the monkey bars in 1st grade!

 

 

The reason for the monkey bars is just that it increases hand strength. It is just one of many recommended activities. Playing with play dough, clothes pins, beads, lacing are others.

So sure it helps! It doesn't hurt. But it is not a necessity.

 

http://movingsmartblog.blogspot.com/2011/05/m-is-for-monkeybars-getting-ready-for.html

[Farrar]

Oh, it's just about hand strength? Not core strength or coordination or opposite movements or anything? In that case, pshaw. Lots of ways to work on or demonstrate that.

 

ETA: If it's really just about the hand strength, I'd rather put my kids to work on learning to give me a shoulder massage. That'll help their hand strength... and my stress levels. ;)

[Korrale]

Oh, it's just about hand strength? Not core strength or coordination or opposite movements or anything? In that case, pshaw. Lots of ways to work on or demonstrate that.

 

ETA: If it's really just about the hand strength, I'd rather put my kids to work on learning to give me a shoulder massage. That'll help their hand strength... and my stress levels. ;)

I like that idea!

[GoVanGogh]

I just googled "monkey bars and bilateral coordination" and pulled up several interesting articles on monkey bars and the ability to swing to be important indicators that both hemispheres of the brain are working together, which is needed for handwriting, using scissors, etc.

 

it is interesting - to me - because my child received a late diagnosis of a neuromuscular disorder, a result of their premature birth. It took us a decade to finally get a referral to a pediatric neurologist that specializes in this condition, with multiple pediatricians and therapists (OT and PT) missing the key symptoms over the years. Once we finally got to the right specialists and had the brain imagining done, the one question that came up over and over again was, "Can the child climb on monkey bars?"

 

Honestly? I had no clue if they could climb on monkey bars. My dh and I never could. We have taken our child to the park weekly, but I have never even seen monkey bars on the playgrounds in this area. The neurologists never asked me if the child could swing, which is also a red flag (also shows lack of bilateral coordination) and that is the one thing I had brought up repeatedly to our pediatrician and she was never concerned. (Child had earlier received a sensory processing disorder diagnosis, so pedi said not swinging was SPD. Now neurologist says earlier SPD diagnosis is part of larger neurological disorder.)

 

I am not sure how important monkey bars are specifically, but there are a number of activities that show bilateral coordination - marching, swinging, swimming, etc. If a child struggles with those skills, it needs investigated further.

[fdrinca]

DS4's OT has said that her preferred approach for fine motor issues is to go at them through gross motor skills. Her argument is that for some kids, the act of sitting upright in a chair, with no vestibular or proprioceptor inputs, is so taxing that the children can't possibly handle fine motor tasks at the same time. 

 

I've heard that skipping, jumping rope, and other bilateral activities are precursors for reading, not fine motor work. My n=3, but I don't see much evidence for it.

[...................]

All I know is, I was helping with the 4 year olds at vacation BIble school this year and two of the girls were amazing at the monkey bars.  It blew my mind.  They used their body, momentum, weight, hips, legs, etc. and using all of those factors would go straight across.  

 

Anyway, in thinking about watching them I would say monkey bars is WAY more of a large motor skill thing!!! I can't see at all how it is fine motor skills.

 

What I can see, is that it DOES require very strong hand strength.  Maybe that rumor you heard about monkey bars has to do with strength, not fine motor skills.  

[GoVanGogh]

Re: Retained reflexes

(Just re-read OP and see that it was mentioned)

One can google retained reflexes and find examples of how to check your own child, along with what retained reflexes are associated with different issues. "Rappin' on the reflexes" is just one program available to work on retained reflexes at home, without shelling out the money for a brain gym type facility. I personally think retained reflexes are under-diagnosed and misunderstood by pediatricians.

 

In our own situation - when we received the late diagnosis of a neuromuscular disorder, we also found out that our child has numerous retained reflexes - very easily triggered, but not fully retained. Our child's well-child exam paperwork from around age 1 year (might be six or nine months, I can't remember off the top of my head) has a check mark that indicates the doctor checked for retained reflexes. The pediatrician we were seeing prior to our child's diagnosis 'fired' us as patients, as he was worried we were going to sue him for neglect. I spent more than a year looking for another pediatrician and interviewing close to a dozen pediatricians in this area. My main question was, "Do you check for retained reflexes at a year? What do you do if they are still retained at a year? Do you recheck at 15 months or 18 months?" Every doctor I asked said they just checked the box and assumed they would be fully integrated by the next appointment, so they didn't follow up with the issue. What good does that do? Why even have a box to check if it means nothing? So we find out when our child is ten that they still have retained reflexes and that is why they have never been able to sit and write? And I asked our pediatrician for five years about our child's poor penmanship. The pediatrician could have easily, quickly and - bonus: for free! - checked to see if our child's ATNR was fully integrated. So we didn't find out until the child was ten that they physically can't write any better than they were. 

[Rosie_0801]

I am not sure how important monkey bars are specifically, but there are a number of activities that show bilateral coordination - marching, swinging, swimming, etc. If a child struggles with those skills, it needs investigated further.

 

True that. I couldn't get dd to do any of those physical exercises like marching because she'd go all giggly girl, but I bought a piano and that's made a huge difference. 

 

 

 

I personally think retained reflexes are under-diagnosed and misunderstood by paediatricians.

 

I'd agree with that. According to our previous paediatrician, they pay no attention to retained reflexes because there is no research. Except for the research that exists, but that doesn't count because it isn't accepted. (And he thought he was cleverer than I am! He might have been, but wasn't showing it. :p ) 

[kiwik]

Not being able to swing on monkey bars may mean more problems with writing but being a champion swinger doesn't mean they will write well.

[kiana]

I never could do the monkey bars.

[ktgrok]

never liked monkey bars, can do them but am not good - OTOH, my handwriting is beautiful.

 

I also don't see monkey bars as an exercise in fine motor skills - it's more about gross motor skills and strength, none of which has much to do with handwriting.

 

 

I've read a few articles by OTs that many handwriting issues are problems with the shoulder muscles, NOT the hand, so it does kind of make sense. People with lousy handwriting actually rely too much on finger muscles and not enough on large muscles, which is why they say their hand hurts when they write too long. 

 

I have terrible handwriting, and my hand REALLY hurts if I write much longhand, so I believe this. I told my son the other day, "did you know, it's not supposed to hurt when you write?" and he was amazed. 

[Tiramisu]

I've read a few articles by OTs that many handwriting issues are problems with the shoulder muscles, NOT the hand, so it does kind of make sense. People with lousy handwriting actually rely too much on finger muscles and not enough on large muscles, which is why they say their hand hurts when they write too long. 

 

I have terrible handwriting, and my hand REALLY hurts if I write much longhand, so I believe this. I told my son the other day, "did you know, it's not supposed to hurt when you write?" and he was amazed. 

 

Yes, we were also told by at OT that upper body and core strength impact handwriting. I think what you say is correct about relying too much on finger muscles, but the opposite is also true, too. Some with fine motor weakness compensate by using their arms to write and not the small muscles of their hands. I had one like that. I guess the key is to work the big muscles on monkey bars and the small ones with thera-putty. 

 

The thing that seemed to make a big difference for one of my DDs was vision therapy. A big part of her problem was visually based. I have a younger one with similar handwriting problems and the OT did not pick up any fine motor issues but did pick up signs of convergence insufficiency and a tracking problem.

 

One problem we had is that the OTs overemphasized the muscular problems in order to get insurance coverage for therapy. We have two reports that are unreliable for this reason. When we folloed up with a physical therapist friend and his hand therapist because I saw red flags, they both completely disagreed with the OTs evaluation of DDs strength and said she was stronger than average, which was much more consistent with our experience and her sporty lifestyle. I felt much better about the eval we had with another OT privately because I thought it was much more honest.

[HeWillSoar]

One of my boys was great at the monkey bars.  He would come home from school with blisters on his hands.  His writing on the other hand, not good.

[regentrude]

I've read a few articles by OTs that many handwriting issues are problems with the shoulder muscles, NOT the hand, so it does kind of make sense. People with lousy handwriting actually rely too much on finger muscles and not enough on large muscles, which is why they say their hand hurts when they write too long. 

 

I have terrible handwriting, and my hand REALLY hurts if I write much longhand, so I believe this. I told my son the other day, "did you know, it's not supposed to hurt when you write?" and he was amazed. 

 

I am wondering to what degree the unsuitable writing implements play a role with which children are taught to write in this country. For a child (or writer of any age, for that matter) who has trouble with hands hurting, I would first suggest switching to a good fountain pen where the pen glides on the ink during writing and the writer does not have to (and in fact should not) exert pressure.

Back home, all kids learn to write with fountain pens with real ink. I found a big difference in the strain for the hand/wrist when writing with fountain pen as opposed to pencil (or, worse, ballpoint pen).

[GailV]

Interesting article on monkey bars and how using them affects so many body functions (including pelvic floor disfunction - who knew?):http://breakingmuscle.com/family-kids/katy-bowman-and-the-biomechanics-of-human-growth-the-necessity-of-monkey-business  

 

 

[shawthorne44]

That is a very interesting article.    When DD was about a year old I read a book on raising a smart baby.  It wasn't a Little Einstein thing.  The author was a Doctor therapist for babies that they knew would have mental problems.   When the parents had a younger baby they often did the same therapies with the younger one.  Then the younger one would come with the family for appointments and be freaky advanced for their age.  One of the things he suggested was building monkey bars for babies and you help them.  It was supposed to do great things for the lungs.  

 

I also wonder if having the arms be doing something different is helpful?  My husband with horrible handwriting mentioned that when he does 10-key he gets spectators because his left hand is doing precisely the same movements as his right.  That the left always does the same thing, but that in 10-key it is really noticeable.  His feet on the other hand can do totally different things.  He is a soccer player and when young was good enough to get some low-level pro offers and a full-ride scholarship.  

 

Next time we are at a playground with monkey bars I am totally encouraging it.  It can't hurt, right?

 

Do people still think that supportive shoes are a good thing for kids?

[GoVanGogh]

I do feel that crossing the midline is a little overrated as an explanation for sooo many things.

 

None of mine crawled. I didn't crawl. We all pulled ourselves up one day and off we went, walking at 9 months. Has it has any appreciable effect on our lives ? No.

If you had a child that doesn't cross midline, you would likely feel totally different.

Our child never crawled. They don't cross midline. The implications of that are huge. As a young teen, we still have to remind them constantly to use their right side - even for obvious things like using a rolling pin. When they do cross midline with the left side, the right hand postures uncontrollably. This child never missed a well child visit; I have paperwork from every exam with boxes such as "crosses midline" checked off. That pediatrician (retired) refuses to talk to us, even though we have promised we won't sue, we only desperately want answers and to work toward educating pediatricians about neurodevelopmental issues.

[MiMi 4under3]

Hmmm. Of my 4 kiddos, the DD who could do the monkey bars at the youngest age also has the neatest / prettiest handwriting.

[Korrale]

I do feel that crossing the midline is a little overrated as an explanation for sooo many things.

 

None of mine crawled. I didn't crawl. We all pulled ourselves up one day and off we went, walking at 9 months. Has it has any appreciable effect on our lives ? No.

Crawling isn't the only way to cross the midline. Running cross patterned, riding a bike. Many day to day activities. My son didn't crawl much either. But he naturally did other activities that compensated.

[Desert Strawberry]

Gosh, I still struggle with the monkey bars. Lol. But I had nice handwriting and can do calligraphy if necessary. I'm real good at the slide, though. ;)

I never could do the monkey bars, and I too have nice handwriting and do calligraphy.

 

My oldest cannot do monkey bars, didn't crawl, had Trouble learning to read, can't spell for anything in the wide world, and has proprioception problems and dyspraxia. It's all related. None of it is relevant to neurotypical kids.

[raptor_dad]

I am wondering to what degree the unsuitable writing implements play a role with which children are taught to write in this country. For a child (or writer of any age, for that matter) who has trouble with hands hurting, I would first suggest switching to a good fountain pen where the pen glides on the ink during writing and the writer does not have to (and in fact should not) exert pressure.

Back home, all kids learn to write with fountain pens with real ink. I found a big difference in the strain for the hand/wrist when writing with fountain pen as opposed to pencil (or, worse, ballpoint pen).

 

You can get a similar effect using cheap markers or felt tip pens. Lots of kindergarten's allow/encourage kids to write with markers for this reason.

 

[Ellie]

I heard somewhere that before your kid learns to write they should learn to do the monkey bars. I am not sure if I believe that or not it is one of the brain gym type of things I think common with people who also try to fix the retained reflex thing.

 

I think though in theory it makes sense since there is a lot of fine motor skill in the task. Anyway ds is very weak in handwriting and can't do the monkey bars yet either. He will be six in a little over a week. I guess this is a little on the late side but who knows. I have no idea when kids typically learn that skill but I think dd learned that earlier. I never liked monkey and always had horrible handwriting. ;) Anyway I just wanted to see if others anecdote matches that too.

 

:huh:

 

Think of the millions of people in the world who learned to write, and who have beautiful penmanship, without ever having heard of monkey bars.

 

I would expect a little person who is not yet 6yo to be "very weak" in handwriting.