smaller state colleges for early entry?

[Dmmetler]

Does anyone have any experience with sending a younger DC to a smaller state school vs a flagship for early entry?

 

One thing that we realized this weekend is that there are several state schools (none local-the closest is about 90 minutes away) that don't have grad programs in herpetology, but have biology professors who are herpetologists, actively are doing research, and are ready and willing to involve undergraduates in their research.

 

Two of said professors pointed out that their colleges participate in the Middle College program-this is something designed for kids who are bright, unmotivated, and often are statistically unlikely to go to college, and it basically lets them do their last two years of high school on a college campus, with a combination of high school level courses (college remediation courses) and college classes. I haven't considered it because DD is so obviously not in the target demographic, and because the school in my district that has said program is a community college that's on the mediocre side. As both professors pointed out, though, that means the college is used to dealing with 16-17 yr olds on campus who have not officially graduated high school yet. so if DD wanted to head there in a few years, that might be a viable option. What was interesting was that none of these professors had met DD previously, and don't know her educational history, but from observing her just at the conference (and, apparently, both had also been at JMIH, so they'd seen and heard of her there as well, but simply hadn't approached us then) thought that early entry was something that was worth bringing up.

 

I admit, it has a lot of appeal. The closer of the two schools is a state university satellite campus. It's in a fairly small town, and isn't a huge school. A lot of kids do their first 2 years there and then transfer to the flagship, and credits earned there are accepted by the flagship without trouble. And the professor had four student research projects, all undergrad level, that presented either sessions or posters this weekend, plus had a van-load of 2000 level vertebrate biology students with him. He seems downright passionate about getting kids out in the field and to do real bio research and fieldwork as undergraduates.

 

There's another school on the Eastern side of the state, very similar in structure, although in a bigger city,  that has some graduate research as well, but again, is very focused on undergraduate work, and actually has a professor who has worked heavily on involving non-science majors in field work, especially education majors. Again, they had many, many undergrad students both present and presenting either sessions or posters.

 

In comparison, the state flagship has a PhD program and an extremely well-known one, but their research seems pretty much limited to graduate students (and, really, doctoral students).

 

These aren't colleges I'd have considered for DD previously-they are much less competitive than the research universities that seem like likely good fits-but I'm thinking that if she wants to go to college early, maybe one of these state schools that has a lot of undergrad research opportunities might be a better choice. It would also be much less expensive than some of the LACs that have strong research programs that have been suggested as possible good fits.

 

Hmmm.....

 

 

 

 

 

[bakpak]

I can't comment on your original question, but I personally went to a small women's university and I can attest that's where she'll get the most one-on-one attention hands down. Just about every single one of my professors would have given me that level of attention had I been interested. I could have been doing research in multiple disciplines from the get-go had I taken the initiative. I found myself at many professors' houses and know more outgoing students were often good friends with their professors much more than I was. Small schools have the highest percentage of professors whose main passion is _teaching_ and passing on their love of a subject to undergraduates.

 

I went to large universities for my MS and PhD, because that's where the $$ and research projects were. However, I did plenty of research as an undergraduate (summer programs, honors thesis) at a 800-student college and I wasn't even particularly motivated like you DD nor have a plan. It was my profs who led me down the research road and saw my potential. I think in general it all depends on the relationship you build with individual professors and that is RARE for undergraduates to develop with professors at large universities. Not unheard of, but rare.

 

Also, although small private universities have higher price tags, they have really large endowments. I had a full-ride at my university and even had a semester of study abroad paid for. In general I think small universities beat out large universities hands down unless your child is a rabid sports fan, and then I see that need not being fulfilled at a smaller school.

 

I think the more your DD meets and works with herpetologists the better able you and she can make a decision about college down the road. I think a lot of your decision will come down to a specific professor (or two), kind of like choosing graduate school in the sciences. The rest of the school needs to have a strong enough program, but really the undergraduate adventure is most important for teaching her to be confident, be independent and broaden her experiences and perception of the world. 

[Butler]

Why not go to one of the satellite campuses as a high school dual enrollment student instead of a early college entrant? Allow her to have the education and research experience now and "save" her undergraduate years for a large research school with more funding, expert profs, etc.

[EndOfOrdinary]

Does anyone have any experience with sending a younger DC to a smaller state school vs a flagship for early entry?

 

I admit, it has a lot of appeal. The closer of the two schools is a state university satellite campus. It's in a fairly small town, and isn't a huge school. A lot of kids do their first 2 years there and then transfer to the flagship, and credits earned there are accepted by the flagship without trouble. And the professor had four student research projects, all undergrad level, that presented either sessions or posters this weekend, plus had a van-load of 2000 level vertebrate biology students with him. He seems downright passionate about getting kids out in the field and to do real bio research and fieldwork.

 

In comparison, the state flagship has a PhD program and an extremely well-known one, but their research seems pretty much limited to graduate students (and, really, doctoral students).

 

 

Hmmm.....

This is what turned my opinion this last month on the private LAC that we toured. The students and professors were honestly excited to be talking with my son, answering his questions, loving his enthusiasm to learn. The students honestly seemed passionate about the idea of a younger person wanting to join the academic discussion.

 

That is not the feeling we got at the state flagship with the EEP program. There were other kids that were academically on par, but there was much more of a competitive feel. Much more of a professional business demeanor. It did not feel energizing. It felt much more race-to-the-top.

 

When I really thought about the reasons I love homeschooling, it is because I am able to let my son love learning, to love engaging with people who love learning. It gives him an excitement about the idea of knowledge. It is not box checking. It is not to compete in the business world or become some big muckity-muck. I do not want him to be knowledgable so that he can seem impressive.

 

The smaller school definitely felt much more in line with those ideals.

[Dmmetler]

They're far enough away to make DE difficult-the closest is about a 90 minute drive, so unless we wanted to physically move, I think she'd have to be able to live on campus. There really aren't any schools local to us that have someone in biology doing research in anything related to her interests, and, to be honest, the closest state university tends to be more the larger research school, just in different things. There's a reason we're regularly driving 3 hours for her to do research (to a private college in a different state).

 

 

 

 

[Barbara H]

One thing I'd explore is whether research options would really be closed to undergraduates at the state flagship. Because most of the students involved in research are PhD students doesn't necessarily mean that an extraordinary younger undergraduate would be excluded. It is tough to apply generalizations to really unusual kids.

[Dmmetler]

I really wish ONE of the colleges nearby had a professor doing research in herpetology-or even, really, any sort of field/wildlife biology. If we lived a couple of hours farther East (or West!), the path would be pretty clear-start DE when she's ready, especially in science, at a school that has a professor working in the field who has met her and knows her, then apply regular admission to a school with interesting programs to her, that, again, have faculty that have met her and know her, possibly one where she could just bridge from her BS to her PhD.

 

Here, it's a little harder.