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DD will not be at High School level math when she starts what should be 9th grade.  And there are a couple of other subjects that she probably won't be using High School level materials for in 9th grade.  If she wants to go to college at one of the local colleges/CCs and she wants to graduate on time with her peers and none of the local schools are super homeschool friendly (since there are not many homeschoolers here) how do I handle her transcript?  I can't seem to find anybody local with a non-NT kid that is homeschooling that will admit their kid is not NT and not following a standard track so local advice seems out.  The colleges haven't been terribly helpful, either.

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Do you have any particular state law requirements in the diploma or the transcript?  You don't need to put the curriculum that you used down the book titles.  It really comes down your student working at his/her level.  I don't denote whether the course was high school level - one publisher over another?  I look at the effort required and the time spent.  I look at the overall scope of the coursework versus whether a publisher said it was high-school worthy.  I've graduated two - both with LDs (one hearing impaired) and I just generalize the transcript (i.e., English 9, 10, etc. World History I, American History I & II).  I didn't specify what I used to accomplish those goals because I set the goals in my school and they had to meet those requirements.  I know math is a bit trickier, especially if a child has to repeat Algebra I but there are some clever titles you could use based on a scope and sequence of the curriculum you use.  My dd actually did Alg I twice so the first year I called it PreAlgebra and then Algebra I the following year.  We used different publishers and she covered topics more advanced, even though they were the books said "Algebra I" on the front of them.  Her senior year she worked through Algebra II.  The bottom line goal was getting her prepared to pass the placement tests successfully at the CC level.  Our CC offers practice tests and samples so I knew she was more than prepared and she did extremely well on the placement tests.  Same for English.  Her goals for the future at to become a teacher so I tailored her high school courses to prepare her for the college level required courses.  Frankly, the math she has brought home at the CC level (top rated CC in much of the country) is nothing more than Algebra I on steroids so stressing about early on was not a good use of my time.  I also found the same to be true with my older ds (hearing impaired).  He placed easily into the higher maths he needed because he had the strong foundation versus the "high level math to put on the transcript."  kwim?  A lot of these kids who are taking all this advanced math in high school are not passing the placement tests at the college-level - foundation is key.  As for science/history - same thing applies.  I preferred retention and mastery over writing big long essays with no real understanding of the subject.  The one skill that I've adjusted this year with my newest high school student is test-taking skills.  This is one area that I'm doing a little more work on to provide more exposure to build up the confidence.  Once she gets to the college level you can work with the disability counselor to gather whatever documentation you might need to draft up a memorandum of accommodation so she has the tools available to her to succeed at this level.  I wouldn't worry about the materials you use but rather build up her foundation over these years to succeed at the CC level.  Transcripts just list a course title and a grade.

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Do you have any particular state law requirements in the diploma or the transcript?  You don't need to put the curriculum that you used down the book titles.  It really comes down your student working at his/her level.  I don't denote whether the course was high school level - one publisher over another?  I look at the effort required and the time spent.  I look at the overall scope of the coursework versus whether a publisher said it was high-school worthy.  I've graduated two - both with LDs (one hearing impaired) and I just generalize the transcript (i.e., English 9, 10, etc. World History I, American History I & II).  I didn't specify what I used to accomplish those goals because I set the goals in my school and they had to meet those requirements.  I know math is a bit trickier, especially if a child has to repeat Algebra I but there are some clever titles you could use based on a scope and sequence of the curriculum you use.  My dd actually did Alg I twice so the first year I called it PreAlgebra and then Algebra I the following year.  We used different publishers and she covered topics more advanced, even though they were the books said "Algebra I" on the front of them.  Her senior year she worked through Algebra II.  The bottom line goal was getting her prepared to pass the placement tests successfully at the CC level.  Our CC offers practice tests and samples so I knew she was more than prepared and she did extremely well on the placement tests.  Same for English.  Her goals for the future at to become a teacher so I tailored her high school courses to prepare her for the college level required courses.  Frankly, the math she has brought home at the CC level (top rated CC in much of the country) is nothing more than Algebra I on steroids so stressing about early on was not a good use of my time.  I also found the same to be true with my older ds (hearing impaired).  He placed easily into the higher maths he needed because he had the strong foundation versus the "high level math to put on the transcript."  kwim?  A lot of these kids who are taking all this advanced math in high school are not passing the placement tests at the college-level - foundation is key.  As for science/history - same thing applies.  I preferred retention and mastery over writing big long essays with no real understanding of the subject.  The one skill that I've adjusted this year with my newest high school student is test-taking skills.  This is one area that I'm doing a little more work on to provide more exposure to build up the confidence.  Once she gets to the college level you can work with the disability counselor to gather whatever documentation you might need to draft up a memorandum of accommodation so she has the tools available to her to succeed at this level.  I wouldn't worry about the materials you use but rather build up her foundation over these years to succeed at the CC level.  Transcripts just list a course title and a grade.

Thanks so much!  This makes perfect sense.  

 

I know math is just going to take time.  But things are finally clicking and keep clicking, even though the pace is slow.  Thank goodness for all the wonderful suggestions I was given on this board regarding going back to basics in math.  She might not have ever made any real progress otherwise.  I don't want to rush through now that things are finally consistently clicking.  The transcript worried me a bit, though, since she really wants to graduate with her peers.  

 

 Science is a huge issue right now, because she is really struggling even with Middle School level material but we are plodding along.  I guess as long as she is covering topics expected to be covered in High School, even if we use some unconventional materials, maybe it will be fine.

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Some cc are just going to look at their placement/entrance test.  In general it would be ideal to meet your state minimum diploma requirements.  It's not a problem for non-high school level work to be on there, but let the number of credits that *are* high school level meet those minimums.  That's the goal.

 

Sigh, we're dickering through this now and we aren't even where you are.  Like it's not pretty.  Ds has this fall b-day, so if we adjust the way the OT says, he'll be 7 for most of K5.  That makes him, what, 19 through most of his senior year.  HOW am I supposed to explain that to people?  He's OUTLANDISHLY bright and I'm sure your kids are too.  But like your kids things are just SO crunchy on the academics, sigh.  19 through his whole senior year???  I was 17 through my senior year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

And yeah, I would THINK he'll have some issues with that at some point.  But back to your kid.  It sounds like this is a social problem, not an academic one.  The writing is on the wall that she needs more time.  What you might do is discuss with her the idea of a *gap* year.  She graduates on time with her peers.  Give her the gap year, during which she does a blend of hs and cc.  For the transcript make the gap year her senior year and work backward.  That way for 9th (next year) you and she aren't stressing that her high school work isn't high school level.  Just own it.  Solve the academic reality and the social concerns SEPARATELY.  

 

Good luck to you.  All I can hope is that ds will continue to be as oblivious at 18-19 as he is now.  I just don't know.  

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Some cc are just going to look at their placement/entrance test.  In general it would be ideal to meet your state minimum diploma requirements.  It's not a problem for non-high school level work to be on there, but let the number of credits that *are* high school level meet those minimums.  That's the goal.

 

Sigh, we're dickering through this now and we aren't even where you are.  Like it's not pretty.  Ds has this fall b-day, so if we adjust the way the OT says, he'll be 7 for most of K5.  That makes him, what, 19 through most of his senior year.  HOW am I supposed to explain that to people?  He's OUTLANDISHLY bright and I'm sure your kids are too.  But like your kids things are just SO crunchy on the academics, sigh.  19 through his whole senior year???  I was 17 through my senior year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

And yeah, I would THINK he'll have some issues with that at some point.  But back to your kid.  It sounds like this is a social problem, not an academic one.  The writing is on the wall that she needs more time.  What you might do is discuss with her the idea of a *gap* year.  She graduates on time with her peers.  Give her the gap year, during which she does a blend of hs and cc.  For the transcript make the gap year her senior year and work backward.  That way for 9th (next year) you and she aren't stressing that her high school work isn't high school level.  Just own it.  Solve the academic reality and the social concerns SEPARATELY.  

 

Good luck to you.  All I can hope is that ds will continue to be as oblivious at 18-19 as he is now.  I just don't know.  

This sounds very workable.  Do schools question ages, though?  And how do they deal with 5 years of High School level materials?  Do I just put the final 4 years down?  What do I do if she starts High school level material in some subjects next year but not others?  Not count any of her credits for this next year as High School?  Wait to start High School level material in all subjects?

 

FWIW, we are sort of in the same situation you are with your son, Elizabeth.  DD repeated 4k, so she would have just turned 19 when she hits her gap/Senior year with that scenario.  She will be 15 right at the beginning of this next year, what should be her 9th grade year based on the schedule she would have been on after she repeated 4k.  I guess that wouldn't be an issue for the school, though, just more of a social thing?

 

Our state has 3 levels for high school diploma achievement.  She might make the absolute minimum level on time since it only requires 22 credit hours including 3 math credits and Algebra I and Geometry are the only stated mandatory math requirements.  The other credit can be something like consumer math I think.  But they state on the website that most colleges or even CCs will not accept a student with just that very minimal diploma in this state.  

 

The next level is Recommended level.  That is the one she and I are shooting for since she wants to go on to college.  It requires 26 credit hours including 4 years of Language Arts, 2 years of a Foreign Language, 4 years of math (Algebra I/II and Geometry plus...? ), 4 science credits (really worrying about this one since we seem to have seriously bogged down when we hit Middle School science), 4 credits of Social Studies, half credit of speech plus P.E., Fine Arts, and electives, etc.  

 

The Distinguished Level just is too pie in the sky and really isn't necessary for DD, IMHO.

 

Not sure how a gap year/extended senior year would affect the choices for her courses this next year, then....other than math, that is.  She will just be wherever she is in math I guess...

 

Do I move her on to any High School level material this next year?  Or just wait until what would have been her 10th grade year?  

 

She will still be doing Barton Reading and Spelling this next year I'm sure, but also IEW for language arts this next year, as well as literature.  Not sure how those would be considered on a transcript but maybe with IEW and a literature course that would cover English I?  Or wait to start English I until the following year, where she may have completed Barton and could start a standard High School level English program...

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Well here's the trouble.  If she's *happy* at home working the way she is and making progress, it would be really frustrating to pay for college to cover high school level stuff, kwim?  And she may not realize that while you're still in high school you get to dual enroll in many states for 1/2 price or even sometimes free!  So there's actually a financial advantage to being realistic, if that makes sense.

 

I don't think I would *push* her into inappropriate material that causes *failure* just to achieve 9th grade.  I would work with her appropriately at all times.  And yes, you'd work with her through gr 13 and then make a transcript with 13,12,11,10 and rebadging them as 12,11,10,9.  Really though, you don't even have to do that.  You just put the years 2030-2031, 2031-2032, 2032-2033, 2033-2034, and put the subjects and credits awarded under those years.  Ages don't matter, what grade you called her for sending her to summer camp doesn't matter.  Your transcript, labeled with years.  They just assume those 4 years are her high school.  

 

Does she realize she can dual enroll at the cc (or do online classes through a christian college, whatever she likes) AND have that extra year?  Does she realize they'll literally be HALF PRICE?  So she'd get to take at home the things that need to be at home AND take through a college the things she's ready for at the college AND they'd be the better price!!  It's really a win, win.  It's not about holding her back.  It's about letting her go forward the right way and not making her flounder too soon.  Or at least that's how you could sell it.  :)

 

But you know, you're one step ahead of me.  I know it's ugly.  Really ugly.

 

Has she had fresh evals in the last few years?  Maybe it's time?  You said you had some kind of ed consultant and not a full psych eval, right?  Maybe it's time to get a good eval with a really kick butt neuropsych who does lots of dyslexia and let HIM advise you, kwim?  

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Well here's the trouble.  If she's *happy* at home working the way she is and making progress, it would be really frustrating to pay for college to cover high school level stuff, kwim?  And she may not realize that while you're still in high school you get to dual enroll in many states for 1/2 price or even sometimes free!  So there's actually a financial advantage to being realistic, if that makes sense.

 

I don't think I would *push* her into inappropriate material that causes *failure* just to achieve 9th grade.  I would work with her appropriately at all times.  And yes, you'd work with her through gr 13 and then make a transcript with 13,12,11,10 and rebadging them as 12,11,10,9.  Really though, you don't even have to do that.  You just put the years 2030-2031, 2031-2032, 2032-2033, 2033-2034, and put the subjects and credits awarded under those years.  Ages don't matter, what grade you called her for sending her to summer camp doesn't matter.  Your transcript, labeled with years.  They just assume those 4 years are her high school.  

 

Does she realize she can dual enroll at the cc (or do online classes through a christian college, whatever she likes) AND have that extra year?  Does she realize they'll literally be HALF PRICE?  So she'd get to take at home the things that need to be at home AND take through a college the things she's ready for at the college AND they'd be the better price!!  It's really a win, win.  It's not about holding her back.  It's about letting her go forward the right way and not making her flounder too soon.  Or at least that's how you could sell it.   :)

 

But you know, you're one step ahead of me.  I know it's ugly.  Really ugly.

 

Has she had fresh evals in the last few years?  Maybe it's time?  You said you had some kind of ed consultant and not a full psych eval, right?  Maybe it's time to get a good eval with a really kick butt neuropsych who does lots of dyslexia and let HIM advise you, kwim?  

Well, our plan this year was a fresh set of evals through a full neuropsych while in San Antonio for both kids, along with an eye exam through a COVD for me and DS, plus additional help for DS with his fine/gross motor skills, along with some outside classes in areas of interest to the kids.  And a specialist in tutoring math to kids with severe math issues was going to help me with lesson plans and support tutoring.  I even had piano lessons lined up for both kids with teachers setting things up for the specific strengths/weaknesses of my kiddos (one specializes in kids with fine/gross motor issues and the other uses a piano program that DD does really well with at home but she wanted more formalized instruction and there isn't anyone in our area that teaches with it).

 

But then moving to S.A. fell through and other things at home tied us down a bit so we had to put that all on hold.  The plan now is to do evals next summer and I am putting paperwork in place for that.  We should have free living arrangements available for next summer in S.A.  The other stuff may not happen, but the evals we are still working to have happen.

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I have been a PS teacher of math. Trust me, many of the kids on IEP's on ninth grade are not doing anything "on level." They just get major accommodations in the on level class that gets out on their transcript. It makes the school look great. It means there are not seven different classes for kids at different levels. It is just smoother.

 

You can list technical math, business math, general math, math essentials. All of these go on transcripts for credit with kids who have learning challenges. She can receive credit and not be behind. You have found what works, now you just need to show that she is working hard at her level. All you need to show with IEP's in public school is that the student is working as hard as they are able to at a given subject. Don't lie and call it algebra, but don't discount it either.

 

Here is a survey of what courses have been called: http://2000survey.horizon-research.com/reports/tables/tables_appendix.pdf

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OneStep, We have not entered the high school years yet, but I've read that some people choose to organize the transcript by subject, instead of by year. So instead of saying 2015-16 and listing all the subjects taken that year, the transcript says English and then lists all the English credits, without regard to which year they were taken. So if it takes five years to accumulate all of the high school credits, it doesn't really matter for the purposes of that transcript.

 

DD12 is very very talented. But not in academics. She has some areas of struggle (math, writing, and anything requiring logical reasoning), and so some of the work that she does in high school may not look as rigorous on paper, even though she will work just as hard -- or harder --  on those topics as most students. Even so, she has the goal of graduating at 17 (she started K at age 4, so even though she is doing 7th grade work now, she really could be 8th), which gives us one less year to squeeze in classes at a more advanced level.  I'm starting to think about how to organize her classes on her transcript, because I want to represent everything honestly, but I don't want it to look like she took a light load.  I need to start lurking over on the high school boards.

 

Also, Elizabeth, I wouldn't worry too much about the graduating at 19 thing. Both of my sons will graduate at 19, and my younger daughter will turn 19 in June after graduating. One of my sons has a January birthday, so he is on the older side for his grade for sure. Graduating at 19 is fairly common now. I'm not feeling bad about it at all in our case. We've made the right decisions for them, and that is what is important.

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Also, Elizabeth, I wouldn't worry too much about the graduating at 19 thing. Both of my sons will graduate at 19, and my younger daughter will turn 19 in June after graduating. One of my sons has a January birthday, so he is on the older side for his grade for sure. Graduating at 19 is fairly common now. I'm not feeling bad about it at all in our case. We've made the right decisions for them, and that is what is important.

So how did you make that decision?  Was it fine motor, academics, social, or a combo of things? And did adjusting their grade get them on label or still leave the wildly divergent?

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I was re-reading the details of the "Recommended" graduation requirements for math in our state.  Besides Algebra I, II and Geometry, there were a whole host of things that might not be even remotely achievable in even a 5 year time frame for DD, but there was ONE thing that looked interesting.  Independent Study in Mathematics.  It can be anything from a specialized area of mathematics like euclidian geometry to history of mathematics.  DD hates history but she really likes to learn about people.  Maybe a history of mathematicians and their discoveries might fit the bill since she isn't seeking "Distinguished" only the "Recommended" diploma....

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So how did you make that decision?  Was it fine motor, academics, social, or a combo of things? And did adjusting their grade get them on label or still leave the wildly divergent?

 

Okay, so DD12 was bright and eager and has a December birthday, so I started her on K at age four. Then I regretted it. She was an early reader, but it soon became obvious that she had trouble with math and that it would be better for her to be at the proper grade level. So we called her first grade for a year and a half and second grade for a year and a half, so that by third grade she was the same level as her same-age peers. We're reserving the option to graduate her at 17, since she will have had the proper number of years of schooling at that point anyway, or at 18 if she seems to need that extra year. So we are calling her a seventh grader, even though she could be an eighth grader. She is doing seventh grade work, with sixth grade math. We're also glad that she is with the younger girls socially, instead of spending too much time with teenagers while she is still 12. Being a seventh grader suits her for now.

 

I didn't want to make the same mistake again. DS10 was just so immature for his age. At four and five I could barely get him to sit and color a simple picture, so I knew he was not ready for traditional K at five. I still worked with him on reading and early math skills, but did not call him K until he was 6. Essentially I worked K skills with him for a couple of years.

 

His brother is only nine months younger, and my youngest daughter is only six months younger than that (adoptive family). So we knew we would have two in the same grade. It was a dilemma to know what to do for them for awhile. Should the two boys be in the same grade? Should they all three be in the same grade? We didn't really want that. DS9 does not have any LDs, but he has always been a bit young for his age and is not keen about academics, so he is often uncooperative. He did not hear English for most of the first year of his life and just had some catching up to do as a toddler. We also wanted to preserve DS10's status as the older brother by placing DS9 in a grade beneath him. Therefore, we decided to start DS9 at K at age 6 as well.

 

The tricky part was figuring out DD9. She is a bright little thing, and we thought she would be fine starting K at age 5. But we didn't want to put her in the same grade with DD10 and have her be a grade ahead of her older brother (DS9). She has a summer birthday, so she is in that either-or zone. We decided not to put her a grade ahead of her slightly older brother, so we called her K at age 6. As it turns out, she has had such a difficult time with reading and memorizing anything that we think she is dyslexic. I'm glad now that she is only a third grader this year, and not a fourth grader, because third grade matches her level of ability with reading and math.

 

The truth is that I have always done almost everything together for my youngest three, regardless of age or grade. They are doing math and reading on the level that matches their grade, so we feel we've made the right choice. Making progress has not been easy for any of them, for a host of different reasons, including LDs, ADHD, and attitude issues, but we've plodded along. If I had started calling them K at age 5, they would be "behind" for their grade by now; as it is, their abilities match their grade level, so it's good. If we saw that they were able to accelerate their learning, we wouldn't hesitate to graduate them at 18 when we get to that point. The way I think of it, it is easier to jump them ahead a grade later on if it seems warranted (probably not likely, considering how things are going). I'd rather hold that as an option for later and call them the grade that suits them now.

 

Honestly, though I'm sure that DS10 will benefit from that extra year. I just have trouble imagining him going off to college or pursuing full-time work by age 18. I mean, he can't put a plate in the dishwasher the correct way without coaching or remember to brush his teeth or bathe himself without instructions. He's seriously behind in managing things for himself personally, and I think it's going to be a long, slow haul getting him to adulthood. Having that extra year with parental oversight will be good for him.

 

Our family situation is obviously unique, but the things that we considered while making our decisions -- social, behavioral, and academic -- would be things for anyone to consider, I think. (And yes, DS10's fine motor issues are a factor as well).

 

My nephew is now 15. He started K at age 6 at the suggestion of his preschool teacher. He has always been in PS and is absolutely thriving academically. Would he be doing as well if he had started K at age 5? Maybe. But staring at age 6 didn't hurt him any and perhaps helped him a ton. He has a March birthday.

 

My niece graduated at age 17. She was an immigrant from Romania at age 13, and there was a decision to be made about placing her in eighth or ninth grade. She was ahead academically, so they put her in 9th. My SIL later told me they regretted it and wished they had put her in 8th to give her a year to adjust to her new life before starting high school. Again, this is a specific situation, but I've just seen in my own family that, if in doubt, choosing the lower grade can turn out to be the better option.

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OneStep, I'm sorry that those requirements are so discouraging. DD12 does not have any diagnosed LDs, but she lacks something -- an ability to think at a higher level, using logic or reasoning skills. She is a very black-and-white thinker who finds it easy to memorize anything but doesn't seem to be able to generate new ideas about things. She misses inference when reading and misses almost every story problem in math.  Math is hard for her, and her writing is simplistic, and as she gets in to harder material in high school, it's just going to be hard to find materials that she can succeed with that will still match our state's graduation requirements. Getting through Algebra II, for example, will be a great challenge for her. I love homeschooling her, because she is a hard worker, has a good attitude, and is able to feel successful at the curriculum that I have chosen for her, while in PS she would be an average student at best.  

 

I was an academic overachiever myself, and it's sometimes hard to accept that my kids are not the same way. I have to carefully consider what will suit them best, instead of what I wish they could do. I've had to change my expectations in a big way. Being in charge of their education has been way harder than I anticipated when we made the decision to homeschool when DD12 was just a bitty thing. It's a struggle to accommodate what they are able to do while still keeping them on track for where they should be for their grade.

 

I hope you are able to map out a plan for your daughter that will both meet the requirements and also be appropriate for her. I really sympathize with you. I know it's a challenge, but I'm sure you'll get there in the end!

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I was re-reading the details of the "Recommended" graduation requirements for math in our state.  Besides Algebra I, II and Geometry, there were a whole host of things that might not be even remotely achievable in even a 5 year time frame for DD, but there was ONE thing that looked interesting.  Independent Study in Mathematics.  It can be anything from a specialized area of mathematics like euclidian geometry to history of mathematics.  DD hates history but she really likes to learn about people.  Maybe a history of mathematicians and their discoveries might fit the bill since she isn't seeking "Distinguished" only the "Recommended" diploma....

Hate to say it, because in general I'm so cool with diverging, doing different things, blah blah, but math is the one thing where it would be nice to have a practical goal as well.  Like basic things: how to know if a credit card or a loan is a good deal, how to know which soap or toilet paper is the better deal at the store...  Given where her computation is, it may take the rest of her high school just to get to that point, kwim?  Or maybe make a list of those functional goals and start working on them coyly through life? Are there shopping apps to help with this?  I don't know.  To me the history of math is a fabulous idea and can be the joy.  But what you could do is spread it out throughout 3-4 years, like have Fun Fridays and do history of math, applied math, etc. that day each week.  You're allowed to do that, you know, accumulating hours over 3-4 years and then turning them into a credit at the end.  :)

 

Anything you do will be great, as always.  :)

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Onestep, this is a total sidestep (haha), but why does your dd hate history?  I'm just thinking that would be unusual for a dyslexic, right?  I mean, if she likes people, she likes the narratives about the people, right?  I'm a confirmed history hater, but it's because I have no sense of time.  Hahaha, now I figured it out!  She's like me!  See people are all screwy and teach history, with all these events, and nothing ever OVERLAPS in the mind of a person with no sense of time.  It just goes on and on and on, billions of events, all strewn, going to infinity in both directions.  Egyptians, Jamestown, China, it's like they're all separate and won't line up!

 

I *used* to say the only history I knew was because of the nasty historical spots my mother took as to as kids.  Oh, and you should know my mother has a degree in museum studies and directs a museum and my step father just retired from a lifetime as curator at another museum.  I mean, seriously, I'm the odd duckling as the history hater!! But it makes sense when you realize nothing MAKES SENSE to me.  Nothing connects, overlaps, or has relationships.

 

Things I don't mind in history?  I don't mind history through the prism of music.  I've already talked about how I usually have music in my head.  (If I'm lucky, it's only one song!)  When we play history trivia games together, I get creamed until it's something to do with music, lol.  I don't even TRY on it and certainly don't watch stuff on purpose.  It's just a way that my brain seems to piece things together.  So if there's anything she's into or enjoys, anything AT ALL, you might try to approach history through the prism of it and see if you could build a framework together.  It would be SO MUCH BETTER for her to take one book on the history of her preferred topic, spend 3-4 years on it, really connect with it, really get that flow, than it would be to keep surveying everything in the whole entire world.  History is such a horrendous fractal, ever-increasing in depth.  It's really unfair to people who have no sense of time to expect that to make sense!

 

In high school I got into Russian history.  Again, you realize how much of the world and timeline you could create pegs for if you just EMBRACED the history of Russia and really ran with it, rather than saying No, the standards say we MUST STUDY xyz, blah blah blee, boring ye.  Nobody CARES!!  History and pegs through an interest are a MORE SOPHISTICATED skill than traditional, linear study, and yet people are SO SCARED of this!!

 

I'm not saying she'd even have to be OCD about approaching history through that prism!  It could be all haphazard and out of order and be FINE.  Seriously.  It could be done with movies.  Actually, I think it's BEST done with movies, at least with me.  I had a 20th century history class in high school where all we did was watch videos.  The whole semester, nothing but videos!!!  I learned a TON.  I can assure you there is NO other class in high school where I learned as much as in that class.

 

So as a very odd woman with no sense of time, I can assure you the data (my big sample of one, haha) suggests: watching videos (as in movies, things that are interesting!) about her topic of interest.  And done.  Buy a timeline that is cool and stick it on the wall on the way to the bathroom.  Done.  If you have the VP timeline cards, I like those too. Anything that is concise so she can see how things connect.

 

People try way too hard and kill things.  They act like everyone learns the same way: by reading a book and regurgitating.  

 

Btw, you realize what I'm saying is the whole point of WEM, right?  I'm not crazy.  I'm just saying apply it earlier than you expected and in a different way.   :D

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Goodness, ladies, there is a lot to read through here!  :)  I will have to delve in deeper tonight when I have time to do these posts some justice.

 

And yes, Elizabeth I strongly suspect that DD hates history because of all the years in school where they tossed tons of names and dates at her and it was one huge jumbled mess in her head because she has no sense of time.  In fact, DS had some issues too, and that is his favorite subject and he has a good sense of the passage of time.  The school handled history in the most boring and confusing ways imaginable.  Honestly, I actually had to go in twice to correct tests they had created that were full of confusing questions and out right errors.  Really frustrating....

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I would definitely not stress about the transcript at this point in time.  Do the work at the level she's capable of doing and keep track of what she's doing.  I don't see how it would differ in the end from a public school student that had IEPs all his or her school career.   What does your CC require for admission?  Ours wants a transcript even for DE students, but enrolls predominately on standardized test scores - either SAT/ACT, state testing required in high school, or the CC's testing.

 

Our plan is to enroll DS at a CC next year for a couple DE credits.  He won't have a typical transcript compared to his public school peers but we're okay with that. I know CC will help a little by showing he can do college level work and then hopefully in the fall of 2016 he'll enroll in the Bible college he wants to attend.

 

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Okay, so DD12 was bright and eager and has a December birthday, so I started her on K at age four. Then I regretted it. She was an early reader, but it soon became obvious that she had trouble with math and that it would be better for her to be at the proper grade level. So we called her first grade for a year and a half and second grade for a year and a half, so that by third grade she was the same level as her same-age peers. We're reserving the option to graduate her at 17, since she will have had the proper number of years of schooling at that point anyway, or at 18 if she seems to need that extra year. So we are calling her a seventh grader, even though she could be an eighth grader. She is doing seventh grade work, with sixth grade math. We're also glad that she is with the younger girls socially, instead of spending too much time with teenagers while she is still 12. Being a seventh grader suits her for now.

 

I didn't want to make the same mistake again. DS10 was just so immature for his age. At four and five I could barely get him to sit and color a simple picture, so I knew he was not ready for traditional K at five. I still worked with him on reading and early math skills, but did not call him K until he was 6. Essentially I worked K skills with him for a couple of years.

 

His brother is only nine months younger, and my youngest daughter is only six months younger than that (adoptive family). So we knew we would have two in the same grade. It was a dilemma to know what to do for them for awhile. Should the two boys be in the same grade? Should they all three be in the same grade? We didn't really want that. DS9 does not have any LDs, but he has always been a bit young for his age and is not keen about academics, so he is often uncooperative. He did not hear English for most of the first year of his life and just had some catching up to do as a toddler. We also wanted to preserve DS10's status as the older brother by placing DS9 in a grade beneath him. Therefore, we decided to start DS9 at K at age 6 as well.

 

The tricky part was figuring out DD9. She is a bright little thing, and we thought she would be fine starting K at age 5. But we didn't want to put her in the same grade with DD10 and have her be a grade ahead of her older brother (DS9). She has a summer birthday, so she is in that either-or zone. We decided not to put her a grade ahead of her slightly older brother, so we called her K at age 6. As it turns out, she has had such a difficult time with reading and memorizing anything that we think she is dyslexic. I'm glad now that she is only a third grader this year, and not a fourth grader, because third grade matches her level of ability with reading and math.

 

The truth is that I have always done almost everything together for my youngest three, regardless of age or grade. They are doing math and reading on the level that matches their grade, so we feel we've made the right choice. Making progress has not been easy for any of them, for a host of different reasons, including LDs, ADHD, and attitude issues, but we've plodded along. If I had started calling them K at age 5, they would be "behind" for their grade by now; as it is, their abilities match their grade level, so it's good. If we saw that they were able to accelerate their learning, we wouldn't hesitate to graduate them at 18 when we get to that point. The way I think of it, it is easier to jump them ahead a grade later on if it seems warranted (probably not likely, considering how things are going). I'd rather hold that as an option for later and call them the grade that suits them now.

 

Honestly, though I'm sure that DS10 will benefit from that extra year. I just have trouble imagining him going off to college or pursuing full-time work by age 18. I mean, he can't put a plate in the dishwasher the correct way without coaching or remember to brush his teeth or bathe himself without instructions. He's seriously behind in managing things for himself personally, and I think it's going to be a long, slow haul getting him to adulthood. Having that extra year with parental oversight will be good for him.

 

Our family situation is obviously unique, but the things that we considered while making our decisions -- social, behavioral, and academic -- would be things for anyone to consider, I think. (And yes, DS10's fine motor issues are a factor as well).

 

My nephew is now 15. He started K at age 6 at the suggestion of his preschool teacher. He has always been in PS and is absolutely thriving academically. Would he be doing as well if he had started K at age 5? Maybe. But staring at age 6 didn't hurt him any and perhaps helped him a ton. He has a March birthday.

 

My niece graduated at age 17. She was an immigrant from Romania at age 13, and there was a decision to be made about placing her in eighth or ninth grade. She was ahead academically, so they put her in 9th. My SIL later told me they regretted it and wished they had put her in 8th to give her a year to adjust to her new life before starting high school. Again, this is a specific situation, but I've just seen in my own family that, if in doubt, choosing the lower grade can turn out to be the better option.

Thanks so much for sharing your story, Storygirl.  :)

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OneStep, I'm sorry that those requirements are so discouraging. DD12 does not have any diagnosed LDs, but she lacks something -- an ability to think at a higher level, using logic or reasoning skills. She is a very black-and-white thinker who finds it easy to memorize anything but doesn't seem to be able to generate new ideas about things. She misses inference when reading and misses almost every story problem in math.  Math is hard for her, and her writing is simplistic, and as she gets in to harder material in high school, it's just going to be hard to find materials that she can succeed with that will still match our state's graduation requirements. Getting through Algebra II, for example, will be a great challenge for her. I love homeschooling her, because she is a hard worker, has a good attitude, and is able to feel successful at the curriculum that I have chosen for her, while in PS she would be an average student at best.  

 

I was an academic overachiever myself, and it's sometimes hard to accept that my kids are not the same way. I have to carefully consider what will suit them best, instead of what I wish they could do. I've had to change my expectations in a big way. Being in charge of their education has been way harder than I anticipated when we made the decision to homeschool when DD12 was just a bitty thing. It's a struggle to accommodate what they are able to do while still keeping them on track for where they should be for their grade.

 

I hope you are able to map out a plan for your daughter that will both meet the requirements and also be appropriate for her. I really sympathize with you. I know it's a challenge, but I'm sure you'll get there in the end!

Thanks for this, too.  I appreciate it.  :)

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Hate to say it, because in general I'm so cool with diverging, doing different things, blah blah, but math is the one thing where it would be nice to have a practical goal as well.  Like basic things: how to know if a credit card or a loan is a good deal, how to know which soap or toilet paper is the better deal at the store...  Given where her computation is, it may take the rest of her high school just to get to that point, kwim?  Or maybe make a list of those functional goals and start working on them coyly through life? Are there shopping apps to help with this?  I don't know.  To me the history of math is a fabulous idea and can be the joy.  But what you could do is spread it out throughout 3-4 years, like have Fun Fridays and do history of math, applied math, etc. that day each week.  You're allowed to do that, you know, accumulating hours over 3-4 years and then turning them into a credit at the end.   :)

 

Anything you do will be great, as always.   :)

Well, we are DEFINITELY going to work on Consumer Math.  Those are the skills she will actually really need.  I agree wholeheartedly with your point here.  In fact, I think ALL students should have ongoing in depth exposure to Consumer Math.  So many go out into the world without a clue about personal finance/budgeting/etc.  Algebra II seems like a far less important class for the majority of people for their day to day lives than actually learning about personal investment, how to handle buying a house, managing a mortgage, financing a car, getting a loan, budgeting for groceries, retirement, etc..

 

But that type of math doesn't count as a High School credit for a "recommended" level HS diploma in my state, as far as I can tell.  So we will definitely continue working on those skills (and are doing some of that already with her daily CLE lessons as well as additional work I am doing with her on the side) but I have to find something else I can give her the fourth HS math credit for.....I thought maybe if she actually made it through Algebra I and Geometry we could do Algebra II and History of Math concurrently for her Junior and Senior year.  Whenever Algebra II gets overwhelming or frustrating, pull out History of Math.  Does that make sense?

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I would definitely not stress about the transcript at this point in time.  Do the work at the level she's capable of doing and keep track of what she's doing.  I don't see how it would differ in the end from a public school student that had IEPs all his or her school career.   What does your CC require for admission?  Ours wants a transcript even for DE students, but enrolls predominately on standardized test scores - either SAT/ACT, state testing required in high school, or the CC's testing.

 

Our plan is to enroll DS at a CC next year for a couple DE credits.  He won't have a typical transcript compared to his public school peers but we're okay with that. I know CC will help a little by showing he can do college level work and then hopefully in the fall of 2016 he'll enroll in the Bible college he wants to attend.

Thanks for the response.  The CC website says that you have to go in and talk to a guidance counselor about what they expect for admissions since some of their programs only expect a certain score on the SAT/ACT or STAAR but other programs expect a lot more.  The local University is a step up in quality but they expect students to match the expectations of the State Recommended HS program at a minimum for admission. .

 

DD is just so worried that she won't graduate with her peers.  She knows she is already a year behind the kids she started school with because she repeated a grade early on.  She doesn't want to miss graduating with the kids she ended up spending the bulk of her brick and mortar school days with or the homeschool friends she is making now.  That got me thinking about where she is at in various subjects.   Some areas she is doing well and could do 9th grade level stuff with some scaffolding (like you said, an IEP type of thing).  Others she is not that far behind.  She is finally making progress in math, too, but she is just now at 3rd grade math again.  Doing so much better this time around and I anticipate she will move through the entire third grade level by December.  And hopefully finish the 4th grade material by May.  Not anywhere near Algebra I by 9th grade, though, even if we work through the summer (which we plan to do).  Science has become an unexpected issue as well.  She is struggling with Middle School level science.  All the terms are bogging her down.  Concepts are easier for her than the terms.  

 

So then I was debating, if she is ready for some 9th grade level material, do I go ahead and let her do those things she is ready for, just not call it 9th?  But then if she isn't in 9th grade officially on the transcript how do I handle any 9th grade level work she ends up doing? And how will she feel if she does not graduate with her peers because I didn't at least give her the chance to try?  So I turned to the LC Hive.  I love the HIVE!  :)

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I have been a PS teacher of math. Trust me, many of the kids on IEP's on ninth grade are not doing anything "on level." They just get major accommodations in the on level class that gets out on their transcript. It makes the school look great. It means there are not seven different classes for kids at different levels. It is just smoother.

 

 

What does this mean? Are you saying they are getting, for example, accommodations in algebra 1, not getting the full algebra 1 curriculum, but it still is called algebra 1 on the transcript? I'm just wondering.

 

My dd has an IEP for math, but it only said something about plotting lines on a graph. She was in prealgebra last year at a charter school. Since she barely passed, I placed her back in prealgebra this year for 9th. It seems a much better option than modifying the life out of algebra. State hs grad reqs and state uni call for math at least to algebra 2 (alg 1, geo, alg 2). I can imagine the struggles already trying to do that. I would much rather have her take something like consumer math than algebra 2

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...

So then I was debating, if she is ready for some 9th grade level material, do I go ahead and let her do those things she is ready for, just not call it 9th?  But then if she isn't in 9th grade officially on the transcript how do I handle any 9th grade level work she ends up doing? And how will she feel if she does not graduate with her peers because I didn't at least give her the chance to try?  So I turned to the LC Hive.  I love the HIVE!   :)

 

Which subjects is she ready for 9th grade level work in?

 

And what grade does she need to be in now to graduate with her peers as she desires?

 

My inclination would be to let her do 9th grade level work in whatever she can, and decide what to call it later. Unless you have to show a transcript now? 

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What does this mean? Are you saying they are getting, for example, accommodations in algebra 1, not getting the full algebra 1 curriculum, but it still is called algebra 1 on the transcript? I'm just wondering.

 

My dd has an IEP for math, but it only said something about plotting lines on a graph. She was in prealgebra last year at a charter school. Since she barely passed, I placed her back in prealgebra this year for 9th. It seems a much better option than modifying the life out of algebra. State hs grad reqs and state uni call for math at least to algebra 2 (alg 1, geo, alg 2). I can imagine the struggles already trying to do that. I would much rather have her take something like consumer math than algebra 2

The needs of an IEP are different for every kid so I cannot be incredibly specific, but I can give examples. I have had kids who were able to have complete formulas lists and calculators due to memory issues. They have to do the test, but they get to have completely open notes due to memory issues. For these kids, locating information is far more important than memorizing.

 

I have had students who do not have any time limit for testing and then each chapter takes them twice as long. In this instance they only get through half of Algebra 1. It is still called Algebra 1. Next semester, they just pick up where they left off. In this way, they get a full credit for what would be only about two thirds of a traditional course. This is because they are working at 120% of what they are capable of. They are working their butts off. The next year they might be in "Integrated Math" which then covers the end of Algebra (or about mid year for review) and the beginnings of Geometry. They would then go into Geometry and probably be able to finish it. Algebra 2 is then handled much like Algebra 1. Very rarely does the kid get all the way through it. They get as far as they can. It still goes on a transcript.

 

In some schools, the school will have a very watered down text to do Algebra. Really nuts and bolts. Very streamlined to about six or eight different topics (much like Saxon in that PreA in many books is Algebra in Saxon. It moves very slowly until you really get it.) This is what they get credit for. It is just written as Algebra 1. It is much the same as a student who homeschools with MUS math vs the kid who homeschools with AoPS. Both are called Algebra 1, but they are very different in the concepts covered as well as depth. It is the job of the instructor to judge whether the kid is working at 100% of their ability.

 

This is up to whether the school is going to work with you or not. It depends on how an IEP is written and your level of advocacy. I have had kids with one liners on their IEPs and kids with similar diagnosis who have six or seven page IEPs. Since the parent never gets to see anyone elses' they do not know that their kid is short changed. I would say that most should be about three paragraphs per subject and it should be revisited at least twice a year and checked on. I do not know if that helps.

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OneStep, I just wanted to remind you of text books published by AGS publishing and Walch Power Basics.  A local mom recommended I use AO Lifepacs and Christian Liberty Press with DS for some basic studies and free up his time for subjects that he loves.  You could use those high school materials and beef them up with documentaries and extras to provide your DD with a solid high school foundation.  Work on writing with the expectation that her skills will firm up her junior year.

 

 

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Which subjects is she ready for 9th grade level work in?

 

And what grade does she need to be in now to graduate with her peers as she desires?

 

My inclination would be to let her do 9th grade level work in whatever she can, and decide what to call it later. Unless you have to show a transcript now? 

She would be in 8th grade this year if she had remained in a brick and mortar school.   She considers herself an 8th grader.

 

In planning for next year, her writing is improving significantly so she could probably do 9th grade level writing with scaffolding for the spelling since she will probably still be going through Barton and Fix-It Grammar.  

 

Although she doesn't like History she could probably do Art History or World Geography at a 9th grade level, again with scaffolding for writing.  She likes Art History and has been doing really well with the Geography program we started.  It isn't 9th grade level but I don't anticipate this being an issue if we moved to harder material in this area next year.

 

Her reading skills are improving significantly but even if she wasn't able to read all the material herself, with me reading to her I believe she could do Literature at a 9th grade level or beyond, as long as we went relatively slowly.  Her auditory comprehension is not nearly as strong as her brother's so I do have to read slowly, repeating passages that she isn't processing (which is why she prefers for me to read to her instead of using pre-recorded sources).  But usually if I go slow she does pretty well and makes some very interesting connections.   Nothing wrong with her hearing, by the way, and she actually hears sounds way better than I do most of the time.  It must be more neurological in origin, something in the way she processes spoken language.  She is very articulate in conversations, though. 

 

She wants to learn Spanish as her foreign language since much of the family speaks that language but I do not know how well that will work for anything other than Conversational Spanish because of the dyslexia and her odd auditory issue.  However, American Sign Language is acceptable as an option and she is interested and might be exceedingly good at it.  She has great fine motor skills and does better with physical symbols than with print.  

 

The Fine Arts credit should be easy to knock out with her piano and art lessons.  

 

P.E./Health we would have to work out since we don't have a plan in place yet but I don't anticipate this being a big issue either.

 

Really, the two areas that are an issue right now, that I can think of off the top of my head, are Math since she is in 3rd grade material right now (but moving pretty quickly and efficiently so far) and Science.  But maybe I am missing something?

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OneStep, can't the consumer math count towards the credit in Independent Study? Maybe call it personal and business math on the transcript??

That might work well...

 

OneStep, I just wanted to remind you of text books published by AGS publishing and Walch Power Basics.  A local mom recommended I use AO Lifepacs and Christian Liberty Press with DS for some basic studies and free up his time for subjects that he loves.  You could use those high school materials and beef them up with documentaries and extras to provide your DD with a solid high school foundation.  Work on writing with the expectation that her skills will firm up her junior year.

I remember you mentioning these.  I will look into them again.  Thanks!

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:grouphug: You are doing well by your daughter.  She appears to be really doing well and on track in most all areas.  There are lots of conceptual science books which are not math heavy.  They count for high school.  Sometimes the brain will also take a weird jump and so many things that are complete struggles seem to click. It never seems to make any sense and all you can do is celebrate those successes.  It might not make you feel any better with the stress of a high school transcript, but most of adult life only requires about eighth grade math skills.  In that sense, your daughter will be a totally functioning citizen.  That is the real goal.

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I do own the Conceptual Physics textbook, workbook and DVDs.  Bought them on clearance last year.  I lent them to a friend but hopefully I will get them back and can look over the material.  I guess physics should be tackled further down the road, though.  

 

DD sort of likes chemistry and Marine science and will be taking a Marine science course on-line in the Spring (we live sort of near the coast so she is looking forward to field trips).  

 

Any suggestions for a Science course/curriculum that would be good for 9th grade HS credit but not overwhelming for my DD?  

 

 

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She would be in 8th grade this year if she had remained in a brick and mortar school.   She considers herself an 8th grader.

 

In planning for next year, her writing is improving significantly so she could probably do 9th grade level writing with scaffolding for the spelling since she will probably still be going through Barton and Fix-It Grammar.  

 

Although she doesn't like History she could probably do Art History or World Geography at a 9th grade level, again with scaffolding for writing.  She likes Art History and has been doing really well with the Geography program we started.  It isn't 9th grade level but I don't anticipate this being an issue if we moved to harder material in this area next year.

 

Her reading skills are improving significantly but even if she wasn't able to read all the material herself, with me reading to her I believe she could do Literature at a 9th grade level or beyond, as long as we went relatively slowly.  Her auditory comprehension is not nearly as strong as her brother's so I do have to read slowly, repeating passages that she isn't processing (which is why she prefers for me to read to her instead of using pre-recorded sources).  But usually if I go slow she does pretty well and makes some very interesting connections.   Nothing wrong with her hearing, by the way, and she actually hears sounds way better than I do most of the time.  It must be more neurological in origin, something in the way she processes spoken language.  She is very articulate in conversations, though. 

 

She wants to learn Spanish as her foreign language since much of the family speaks that language but I do not know how well that will work for anything other than Conversational Spanish because of the dyslexia and her odd auditory issue.  However, American Sign Language is acceptable as an option and she is interested and might be exceedingly good at it.  She has great fine motor skills and does better with physical symbols than with print.  

 

The Fine Arts credit should be easy to knock out with her piano and art lessons.  

 

P.E./Health we would have to work out since we don't have a plan in place yet but I don't anticipate this being a big issue either.

 

Really, the two areas that are an issue right now, that I can think of off the top of my head, are Math since she is in 3rd grade material right now (but moving pretty quickly and efficiently so far) and Science.  But maybe I am missing something?

 

I'd have her go ahead then and be at the grade level she would be in B&M, and keep records accordingly. As you get to 11th, 12th grade, you can reassess whether she needs an extra year.  

 

"Basic College Math" like Auffmann (however that is spelled) and Lockwood (?) starts with adding. The type may be hard for her, but the level it starts with is lower than 3rd grade--if you went slow and got it all done, she'd have the same material as a remedial CC student.  The Auffmann text is a little less visually busy than Lial's.

 

You could try RealScience4Kids materials which are fairly easy to read, DVD's etc. for science this year, and then next year something like Globe Fearon / Pearson's Science Workshop Series (or start now if her reading/comprehension is at that level) which are simplified compared to most science programs, but would still give her some background in the basic school science areas (biology, chemistry, physical science, earth science).

 

Working with her on being able to use recorded materials may be needed in addition to working on reading.

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I'd have her go ahead then and be at the grade level she would be in B&M, and keep records accordingly. As you get to 11th, 12th grade, you can reassess whether she needs an extra year.  

 

"Basic College Math" like Auffmann (however that is spelled) and Lockwood (?) starts with adding. The type may be hard for her, but the level it starts with is lower than 3rd grade--if you went slow and got it all done, she'd have the same material as a remedial CC student.  The Auffmann text is a little less visually busy than Lial's.

 

You could try RealScience4Kids materials which are fairly easy to read, DVD's etc. for science this year, and then next year something like Globe Fearon / Pearson's Science Workshop Series (or start now if her reading/comprehension is at that level) which are simplified compared to most science programs, but would still give her some background in the basic school science areas (biology, chemistry, physical science, earth science).

 

Working with her on being able to use recorded materials may be needed in addition to working on reading.

Thanks Pen.  And for that last sentence, that is an exceedingly good point.  She cannot be dependent on me forever.  I was really hoping additional evals could help me figure out what is really going on and how to assist her with this, but we had to put those on hold for a bit.  

 

She admitted fairly recently that most of the time in class when the teachers were talking she was only understanding a portion of what they were saying and would have to ask other kids afterwards or just hope I could explain the material once she got home.  She never said anything while she was in school.  I knew she was struggling but once we got the dyslexia diagnosis I thought it was just reading that was an issue.  Then I started to realize that while she hears sounds incredibly well (very sensitive hearing, just like DH) she doesn't process spoken words as efficiently as she should.  When I asked her that was when she admitted about school.  And she just really doesn't do well with any audio only recorded spoken words such as books, lectures, etc. (although she loves recorded music).

 

For instance, when I played an audio cd of a book we were reading, she kept saying "What are they saying?  I don't understand what they are saying."  But when I went back and read the passage to her myself, reading slowly, sometimes repeating material when she looked puzzled, she understood it just fine.

 

DS, on the flip side, plows through books on Audible through his Kindle all the time and retains it all incredibly well.  But he has some sort of auditory glitch that makes certain blended sounds problematic.  DD never had that issue.

 

Just wondering how I help her ability to hear and process through sources other than me?

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Thanks Pen.  And for that last sentence, that is an exceedingly good point.  She cannot be dependent on me forever.  I was really hoping additional evals could help me figure out what is really going on and how to assist her with this, but we had to put those on hold for a bit.  

 

She admitted fairly recently that most of the time in class when the teachers were talking she was only understanding a portion of what they were saying and would have to ask other kids afterwards or just hope I could explain the material once she got home.  She never said anything while she was in school.  I knew she was struggling but once we got the dyslexia diagnosis I thought it was just reading that was an issue.  Then I started to realize that while she hears sounds incredibly well (very sensitive hearing, just like DH) she doesn't process spoken words as efficiently as she should.  When I asked her that was when she admitted about school.  And she just really doesn't do well with any audio only recorded spoken words such as books, lectures, etc. (although she loves recorded music).

 

For instance, when I played an audio cd of a book we were reading, she kept saying "What are they saying?  I don't understand what they are saying."  But when I went back and read the passage to her myself, reading slowly, sometimes repeating material when she looked puzzled, she understood it just fine.

 

DS, on the flip side, plows through books on Audible through his Kindle all the time and retains it all incredibly well.  But he has some sort of auditory glitch that makes certain blended sounds problematic.  DD never had that issue.

 

Just wondering how I help her ability to hear and process through sources other than me?

 

 

They don't have the large amount of academic material that Learning Ally has, but I would suggest that you look into the National Library Service recordings for the blind and disabled. ETA NLS does have an excellent collection of American and British literature classics, making it helpful for literature area.

 

Some here have said it is only for people who are blind, but that is not true. I got it after my brain injury since reading print materials was impaired, though I was not blind. But from my pov with a brain injury, which was affecting all sorts of things not just visual, the NLS was far easier to understand than Learning Ally. And really during times that I have been bedridden and all I could do was listen to NLS books, it was an incredible blessing and sanity saver. They have many excellent fluent readers and the machines can be slowed way down, tone changed up or down if that helps, and so on.

 

Because of my own cognitive difficulty I have used them extensively though not exclusively with ds in place of my reading aloud. He prefers me to read aloud as being easier to understand, but he has increasingly gotten more used to the recordings. One has to be prepared sometimes to stop and review (rewind) in place of asking someone to repeat something. And usually I have been right there to help explain/discuss if ds does not understand something, as well as often being able to introduce the subject matter. For scaffolding examples, I started with Little House series reading aloud myself, but then we switched over to the recordings and listened together.   I think with EB White books there was a combo of both.  With 'And Ladies of the Club more recently, we listened to the recordings entirely together, more that once through. After having seen the new Michael J. Fox movie versions of Incredible Journey, ds got a professional recording of the original book and was able to follow that. So in that sense, the audio books are being scaffolded. We also started vol. 1 of SOTW with the physical book, but then switched to the professional audio recording by Jim Weiss played over and over.  In addition, I listen to audio recordings myself, such as right now I am trying to follow Thomas Piketty's Capital in the 21st Century (struggling with a professional recording that I cannot adjust speed or pitch on), so ds gets to hear (or overhear) audio recordings at a level higher than he is currently at.  With Learning Ally, we listened to a bunch of Anansi the Spider stories that were fairly well read, and at a not too high level for ds at the time we were listening to them (there was one in SOTW and he wanted more).

 

Learning Ally often has readers who seem to be groping with the material themselves, and often the reader changes part way through, so I think it is way harder to understand LA than NLS. But if she could work on NLS, then it might help her move on to LA, which has more academic material.  I've never used the devices or programs that use a computer reader, so my only knowledge of that is the internal reader on my Mac, where I like the "Alex" voice, slowed down below "normal".   However, I think the human being doing the reading on NLS is far easier to understand than the computer reader in addition to being easier to follow than Learning Ally.  I would suggest, if she can qualify for it, that she start with just a "fun" book at not too high a level and gradually work up in difficulty, and experiment with speed and tone.

 

ETA at the Peter Rabbit and Little Critter level, I did the read alouds myself. At the Charles Dickens level for me reading is via NLS, with scaffolding for ds usually including first watching a BBC DVD version of the story--except for A Christmas Carol where I explained the story before we listen to it. Recently he saw movie versions of Treasure Island, and I expect at some point we will get the recorded books to listen to. I also often have the physical print version of a book to be able to look at, whether at the same time, or as a reference, or however it is helpful..

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They don't have the large amount of academic material that Learning Ally has, but I would suggest that you look into the National Library Service recordings for the blind and disabled. ETA NLS does have an excellent collection of American and British literature classics, making it helpful for literature area.

 

Some here have said it is only for people who are blind, but that is not true. I got it after my brain injury since reading print materials was impaired, though I was not blind. But from my pov with a brain injury, which was affecting all sorts of things not just visual, the NLS was far easier to understand than Learning Ally. And really during times that I have been bedridden and all I could do was listen to NLS books, it was an incredible blessing and sanity saver. They have many excellent fluent readers and the machines can be slowed way down, tone changed up or down if that helps, and so on.

 

Because of my own cognitive difficulty I have used them extensively though not exclusively with ds in place of my reading aloud. He prefers me to read aloud as being easier to understand, but he has increasingly gotten more used to the recordings. One has to be prepared sometimes to stop and review (rewind) in place of asking someone to repeat something. And usually I have been right there to help explain/discuss if ds does not understand something, as well as often being able to introduce the subject matter. For scaffolding examples, I started with Little House series reading aloud myself, but then we switched over to the recordings and listened together.   I think with EB White books there was a combo of both.  With 'And Ladies of the Club more recently, we listened to the recordings entirely together, more that once through. After having seen the new Michael J. Fox movie versions of Incredible Journey, ds got a professional recording of the original book and was able to follow that. So in that sense, the audio books are being scaffolded. We also started vol. 1 of SOTW with the physical book, but then switched to the professional audio recording by Jim Weiss played over and over.  In addition, I listen to audio recordings myself, such as right now I am trying to follow Thomas Piketty's Capital in the 21st Century (struggling with a professional recording that I cannot adjust speed or pitch on), so ds gets to hear (or overhear) audio recordings at a level higher than he is currently at.  With Learning Ally, we listened to a bunch of Anansi the Spider stories that were fairly well read, and at a not too high level for ds at the time we were listening to them (there was one in SOTW and he wanted more).

 

Learning Ally often has readers who seem to be groping with the material themselves, and often the reader changes part way through, so I think it is way harder to understand LA than NLS. But if she could work on NLS, then it might help her move on to LA, which has more academic material.  I've never used the devices or programs that use a computer reader, so my only knowledge of that is the internal reader on my Mac, where I like the "Alex" voice, slowed down below "normal".   However, I think the human being doing the reading on NLS is far easier to understand than the computer reader in addition to being easier to follow than Learning Ally.  I would suggest, if she can qualify for it, that she start with just a "fun" book at not too high a level and gradually work up in difficulty, and experiment with speed and tone.

 

ETA at the Peter Rabbit and Little Critter level, I did the read alouds myself. At the Charles Dickens level for me reading is via NLS, with scaffolding for ds usually including first watching a BBC DVD version of the story--except for A Christmas Carol where I explained the story before we listen to it. Recently he saw movie versions of Treasure Island, and I expect at some point we will get the recorded books to listen to. I also often have the physical print version of a book to be able to look at, whether at the same time, or as a reference, or however it is helpful..

Thanks so much for sharing this, Pen.  This is great.  

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Thanks Pen.  And for that last sentence, that is an exceedingly good point.  She cannot be dependent on me forever.  I was really hoping additional evals could help me figure out what is really going on and how to assist her with this, but we had to put those on hold for a bit.  

 

She admitted fairly recently that most of the time in class when the teachers were talking she was only understanding a portion of what they were saying and would have to ask other kids afterwards or just hope I could explain the material once she got home.  She never said anything while she was in school.  I knew she was struggling but once we got the dyslexia diagnosis I thought it was just reading that was an issue.  Then I started to realize that while she hears sounds incredibly well (very sensitive hearing, just like DH) she doesn't process spoken words as efficiently as she should.  When I asked her that was when she admitted about school.  And she just really doesn't do well with any audio only recorded spoken words such as books, lectures, etc. (although she loves recorded music).

 

For instance, when I played an audio cd of a book we were reading, she kept saying "What are they saying?  I don't understand what they are saying."  But when I went back and read the passage to her myself, reading slowly, sometimes repeating material when she looked puzzled, she understood it just fine.

 

DS, on the flip side, plows through books on Audible through his Kindle all the time and retains it all incredibly well.  But he has some sort of auditory glitch that makes certain blended sounds problematic.  DD never had that issue.

 

Just wondering how I help her ability to hear and process through sources other than me?

OneStep, are you getting them checked for APD?  Maybe you have a state university that has more brains than your ps seem to?

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OneStep, are you getting them checked for APD?  Maybe you have a state university that has more brains than your ps seem to?

I haven't yet.  I need to.  The local University is in the process of merging with another university.  Things are a bit of a mess right now, with people shifting jobs, changing titles, losing positions, etc.  But I will definitely seek out possibilities through them once the dust settles a bit.  :)

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