Khan Academy for middle school math

[happypamama]

As a s/o of my thread about DD and math, I'm going to have her try out Khan. Question: is Khan enough? Or is it more of a supplement? If you use it for your middle schooler's math, tell me how it looks in your home.

[Miss Mousie]

We're only two months into this adventure, so this is clearly not the advice of a seasoned homeschooler, but I have been alternating Khan with Life of Fred for my 8th grade son.  He absolutely loves both, for different reasons. 

 

What I find most interesting is seeing how the Khan recommendations change as DS completes various tasks.  For example, it gave him 3D sets (the folding and unfolding shapes stuff), which DS did in a matter of seconds (seriously - I was stunned!), so then Khan gave him a bunch of advanced geometry segments even though he's never had more than a brush with the basics.  Also, now that Khan "knows" DS struggles with more basic stuff (like converting fractions to decimals), it is giving him more practice in those areas.

 

This experience with Khan also seems to provide the "discovery" aspect that I had hoped DS would enjoy with AoPS (which we've only dabbled with more than a year ago, but DS was in PS then and didn't seem to love it so I didn't push it).  I think he likes Khan's discovery bent better both because he has a bit more math confidence now and because it's online instead of the textbook format of AoPS (we've never tried Alcumus). 

 

So, given that Khan seems to be so fluid, it makes me feel better to plug along through Fred as well because I want the more methodical progression too.

 

 

[Chrysalis Academy]

We're using Khan the way Matroyshka described using it with her dd:  behind where she's studying, as a spiral review.  My dd is starting Alg 1, but I'm having her do the PreAlgebra mastery challenge so she continues reviewing/using her arithmetic skills, keeping them solid.  Not every day, but a couple of times a week.

 

 

[Aurelia]

DD does pre-algebra in Khan, and I have her work through the Key to... books as a supplement. Basically, I have her log on every school day and she spends 30-45 minutes working through as many problems/concepts as she can. She works through 2 pages of the Key to... books at a different time of the day, so her brain gets a break. It seems to be working so far, but we've only been doing this for about a month.

[Vida Winter]

My kids supplement with Khan for a short time each day (15-20 min) in addition to their more traditional programs (BJU, Derek Owens).

[madteaparty]

Never mind. I was logged on as parent

[...................]

I don't know why we can't use it for a full curriculum...we checked it out today, and they have created a new Pre-Algebra Mission since I last checked last year.  The personal math path is important because it takes you in order through a set of topics that you need as well as giving you daily review every time you check in.  The Pre-Algebra Mission covers review of all basic arithmetic, as well as all you need for any pre-algebra course.  Your student has to get 5 correct in a ROW in order to pass to the next topic.  Trust me, if you don't really understand something, you can't get it correct 5 times in a row.  So, today my son was having trouble with Least Common Multiple and he ended up doing about 15 problems, and now he really gets it.  

 

So, it has mastery based instruction

Help upon request (we just watch the videos together again and again till he gets it and I do too)

Daily Review (every day has a Warm Up of 10 problems)

 

The only glitch I could see is if your student was using the hints too much, and then not really getting 5 in a row all by themselves.  So I told my son not to use the hints unless he and I are both really stuck, then we will use the hints.  Also, the hints show you exactly how to set up a problem in your notebook, nice and neat. Sometimes Mr. Khan goes around the place in order to show what he was saying, or he erases, so you don't necessarly see it in perfect neat order of how it should look for a kid in a notebook (for the most part, it does, but there just isn't that much space on his screen.)  So, the hints are useful for that as well.

 

Also my son is extremely motivated by the badges, levels, adorable characters that are unlocked as you progress, etc.  Today he was getting pretty frustrated while working with LCM and the program suddenly popped up and gave him a Persistence Badge.  (Kid keeps trying after several failed attempts.)

 

So, I just really can't see why this wouldn't work...maybe it doesn't include word problems?

 

[wapiti]

I *think* KA contains some word problems (one could always use Alcumus too), but FWIW when I went to google whether Khan had word problems, I happened upon a random blog critiquing KA.  The comments to the blog were also interesting.  Some compared KA to a microwave - good for reheating (reminding) or thawing (an initial presentation) but not necessarily for all one's cooking needs.

 

I also came across further critiques about the procedural emphasis, which is something I've read before.  Like any math program, I think KA should be used for its strengths and combined with other things that make up for its weaknesses.

[ocelotmom]

I don't know why we can't use it for a full curriculum...we checked it out today, and they have created a new Pre-Algebra Mission since I last checked last year.  The personal math path is important because it takes you in order through a set of topics that you need as well as giving you daily review every time you check in.  The Pre-Algebra Mission covers review of all basic arithmetic, as well as all you need for any pre-algebra course.  Your student has to get 5 correct in a ROW in order to pass to the next topic.  Trust me, if you don't really understand something, you can't get it correct 5 times in a row.  So, today my son was having trouble with Least Common Multiple and he ended up doing about 15 problems, and now he really gets it.  

 

So, it has mastery based instruction

Help upon request (we just watch the videos together again and again till he gets it and I do too)

Daily Review (every day has a Warm Up of 10 problems)

 

The only glitch I could see is if your student was using the hints too much, and then not really getting 5 in a row all by themselves.  So I told my son not to use the hints unless he and I are both really stuck, then we will use the hints.  Also, the hints show you exactly how to set up a problem in your notebook, nice and neat. Sometimes Mr. Khan goes around the place in order to show what he was saying, or he erases, so you don't necessarly see it in perfect neat order of how it should look for a kid in a notebook (for the most part, it does, but there just isn't that much space on his screen.)  So, the hints are useful for that as well.

 

Also my son is extremely motivated by the badges, levels, adorable characters that are unlocked as you progress, etc.  Today he was getting pretty frustrated while working with LCM and the program suddenly popped up and gave him a Persistence Badge.  (Kid keeps trying after several failed attempts.)

 

So, I just really can't see why this wouldn't work...maybe it doesn't include word problems?

 

Using the hints doesn't count as getting it right - it shows you how to do the problem so you can move on to the next one, but it doesn't count as part of a streak.

 

Also, if you don't get a problem right in the Mastery Challenge, it drops you down a level, so you have to practice it more to get back up to mastery. So you don't just get to call it mastered and be done with it forever.

 

And it definitely includes lots of word problems.

 

We use KA as our primary math with Life of Fred as a supplement.

[...................]

Using the hints doesn't count as getting it right - it shows you how to do the problem so you can move on to the next one, but it doesn't count as part of a streak.

 

Also, if you don't get a problem right in the Mastery Challenge, it drops you down a level, so you have to practice it more to get back up to mastery. So you don't just get to call it mastered and be done with it forever.

 

And it definitely includes lots of word problems.

 

We use KA as our primary math with Life of Fred as a supplement.

Nice!  I think, for us, for this year it is win-win.  I would perhaps be more concerned if we were using it for high school math.  But for an entire year of review, which is all pre-algebra basically is...plus some algebra thrown in...I think this is going to be perfect. I'm super excited.  

[Arcadia]

Also my son is extremely motivated by the badges, levels, adorable characters that are unlocked as you progress, etc.

My boys like the avatars but they rather do the programming modules and the science modules than do the math modules. We are using Khan for fun so it doesn't matter that math never got done on Khan.

[happypamama]

I'm enjoying this thread. I took some time over the weekend and set up a parent account for me and a student account for DD. She hasn't had a chance to try it yet, except for trying the one section, algebra, I think. Of the six problems it showed her, she got three right easily, and three she didn't know, because she hadn't seen the info before (operations with negative numbers). So, I do know that she needs to continue with prealgebra a bit longer, but I think I will have her do a bit of the seventh grade math each week as a review/challenge/different way of looking at things.

 

I'm taking the time to go through the eighth grade math. I'm a confident math student, but some of the stuff is rusty to me, because you really don't use it every day (like, I had forgotten how to figure out the volume of a sphere, because I've never had to do that in adulthood!). I think it'll be more efficient if I'm a bit ahead of my children. I like the Khan format. I looked at it a few years ago and wasn't terribly impressed, but they've really improved it recently.

[...................]

Make sure you choose a Personal Math Path and  Mission for your dd, in her account.  This will ensure that she does all the necessary topics in order, and it includes daily review.  I am not sure how to build in more review...the daily review only includes 5 problems.  BUT if you get any wrong then that problem set is automatically added to the Personal Math Path.  So...I guess it'll come back until you don't get it wrong anymore.

[happypamama]

Make sure you choose a Personal Math Path and Mission for your dd, in her account. This will ensure that she does all the necessary topics in order, and it includes daily review. I am not sure how to build in more review...the daily review only includes 5 problems. BUT if you get any wrong then that problem set is automatically added to the Personal Math Path. So...I guess it'll come back until you don't get it wrong anymore.

Uhhhhhh. . . .? I don't think I did that because it's not ringing a bell. Okay, thank you for that heads up; I will look at that.

[Roadrunner]

I have looked at Khan several times for review, but I can't figure out how to do a proper placement. How do I know where to start? Is it adoptive? If we start in grade 4, will it automatically udjust up?

[Chrysalis Academy]

Oh Roadrunner, you must be on a phone or something!  No, it's not adoptive, but it is adaptive!!  :lol: It will give your student "Mastery Challenge" questions and once you answer a certain number correctly, you level up and then eventually master a topic.  Mastered topics are reviewed, but less frequently.  If you miss something you have mastered during review, you have to do more problems.  

 

In addition to Mastery Challenges, which are quick ways to move through info you have studied, it also gives you several lessons on new stuff to choose from.  That does change up too.  So you have your own math mission, but there are still individualized paths through it.

 

Just play around with it (get an account for yourself) and you will start to figure it out.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Ok, I think this is how you set up a Mission/personal math path:  you go to your name, by the little leaf in the upper right hand corner, and click on profile.  from there, click on the tab that says "Progress" Then under Skills you can use the pull-down menu to choose the Mission you want to work on.  I think the default is "The World of Math" which is everything. You can set it to a particular grade level, or to a topic like PreAlgebra or Algebra.

[Roadrunner]

I am on iPad, an equally offensive device! :) :)

 

 

Ok, I think this is how you set up a Mission/personal math path: you go to your name, by the little leaf in the upper right hand corner, and click on profile. from there, click on the tab that says "Progress" Then under Skills you can use the pull-down menu to choose the Mission you want to work on. I think the default is "The World of Math" which is everything. You can set it to a particular grade level, or to a topic like PreAlgebra or Algebra.

Thank you for guiding me through the process. I am most definitely technologically challenged. :)

[Chrysalis Academy]

Nice!  I think, for us, for this year it is win-win.  I would perhaps be more concerned if we were using it for high school math.  But for an entire year of review, which is all pre-algebra basically is...plus some algebra thrown in...I think this is going to be perfect. I'm super excited.  

 

I think it's perfect for review.  I don't think the word problems offer enough problem-solving practice - they tend to be pretty formulaic, so if you crack the code, you actually can answer 5 in a row correctly without actually knowing what you are doing.  This is actually my reservation with using Khan to teach new material - I have found on multiple occasions that I can figure out how to get the right answer without really understanding what I'm doing.  And because it can throw topics at you kind of randomly, even within your personal mission, it can leave you without a grasp of how all the individual parts fit together.  However, for practicing skills, I think it's great.  

[Mandamom]

I became a math teacher at the school (learning disabilities)  I work for and due to needing to provide individualized lessons for each student (classes of 12), I am using Khan Academy. Due to ADHD, dyslexia and language processing issues, their skills are all over the place.

 

I have chosen a level for each student and provided recommendations that align to an appropriate textbook that have tests and quizzes (which I need for grades). So, the students work through the grade level and the recommendations that I have provided. Homework is based up on their textbook or a review of skills sheet until I feel they can do the homework from the book. 

 

After they achieve a minimum of Level 2, they are then required to complete a written study guide from the textbook in order to demonstrate that they can take the skills from Khan. If they do that well, they can complete the tests and quizzes for the chapter and move on to the next chapter. 

 

So far it is an experiment but the kids really like it. Some day s, getting them off of the computer as the finish "one more problem" gets them late to the next class. The parents and administration like the fact that I am using the textbooks tests and quizzes to assure that the kids aren't just getting through a computer program and are completing a real textbook. I like it because the kids are getting immediate feedback on problems, I don't have to try and correct every single math problem completed in a day and some students would have been held back are now able to move ahead to Algebra instead of pre-algebra. 

 

It's been a lot of work but I'm feeling confident I can keep going with this. 

 

JUst thought I'd share. 

 

Janice  

 

 

[happypamama]

I am on iPad, an equally offensive device! :) :)

 

 

 

Thank you for guiding me through the process. I am most definitely technologically challenged. :)

 

I used to be an excellent typist.  The iPad and its crazy autocorrect make me look illiterate. ;)

 

Ok, I think this is how you set up a Mission/personal math path:  you go to your name, by the little leaf in the upper right hand corner, and click on profile.  from there, click on the tab that says "Progress" Then under Skills you can use the pull-down menu to choose the Mission you want to work on.  I think the default is "The World of Math" which is everything. You can set it to a particular grade level, or to a topic like PreAlgebra or Algebra.

Okay, thank you!  I will try it.  I'm thinking it's arranged kind of like Math Mammoth is, by grade or by topic?  So if you select "seventh grade," it'll have a variety of algebra and prealgebra topics scattered in there.

 

I did notice that yes, you can crack the code and answer problems without full understanding.  I also got a feel for the tedium of math problems, and I see why my DD is prone to careless mistakes.  So many little calculations, and one wrong step throws off the entire problem, even if you know how to do it.

 

I did like the videos and thought the couple of them that I watched were very well done.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Yes, the good thing about Khan is that it definitely penalizes careless mistakes - when you have to do 5 in a row correctly to pass a level, it is incredibly frustrating to make a dumb mistake on the 5th problem! You tend to get really careful about checking your answer before you submit it, which is a good habit, I think.

 

It's also great that you can get help - via videos, hints, and worked solutions - when you need it, but not when you don't.  It's a good system, for one that doesn't involve a human teacher.

[...................]

I think it's perfect for review.  I don't think the word problems offer enough problem-solving practice - they tend to be pretty formulaic, so if you crack the code, you actually can answer 5 in a row correctly without actually knowing what you are doing.  This is actually my reservation with using Khan to teach new material - I have found on multiple occasions that I can figure out how to get the right answer without really understanding what I'm doing.  And because it can throw topics at you kind of randomly, even within your personal mission, it can leave you without a grasp of how all the individual parts fit together.  However, for practicing skills, I think it's great.  

My son actually wants to understand things..he just has that personality. He would never even desire to scam the system.

 

As for the disconnected nature of things...we were using Saxon...nothing could possibly, on the face of the earth, be more disconnected.

 

Not saying I am right...just saying those two things would not be show stoppers for me.  He started Alcumus today so the conceptual is being filled in.

 

So, to me, the only main issue is whether there is enough review throughout.

[...................]

I mean, I could just use Key To and supplement with Khan...that probably would be a safer bet...I'll think about it...

[Chrysalis Academy]

I'm not trying to talk you out of it!! Just pointing out things I've noticed with my own use.