Feels like we've been learning to read for-ev-errrrrrrr...

[alisoncooks]

Do y'all with struggling readers feel like this?  I've been teaching oldest DD to read since she was 4-5, and now she is 8.  Oh man, we've been doing this learning-to-read bit for YEARS.  (And yes, we're progressing and etc... but some days I feel like Sisyphus.)

 

And now that younger DD is giving me push-back on reading (doesn't want to, whines/fusses)...I just see a repeat of #1 and the future unfurls before me:  a never-ending series of reading programs and practice, day after day, ad infinitum...

 

:nopity:  :nopity:

 

 

 

 

Alright.  

I'm done whining.

KEEP MOVING FORWARD!

 

(Thanks for listening to the rant. I'm sure I'm not alone in this.)   :blushing:

[PeterPan]

Have you ever read that off the frig and onto homeschool book? She has this technique where they earn a penny for every move they make (correct question) in their phonics game.  (She made sort of a generic game board and used it to practice EVERYTHING.) Then they could save those pennies to earn stuff from the "bank."  Maybe that would add spice to your life?  Or at least some therapeutic shopping?  :)

[Crimson Wife]

{{{{hugs}}}} I feel that way with regards to my little one's general speech & language development. It'll be 4 years in January since we started in with Early Intervention services.

 

Reading instruction we've only been at for a few months and she's still too young to tell whether or not she's dyslexic in addition to having ASD and language delay. It would not surprise me if she did struggle with learning to read but I'm taking things one day at a time.

[LibraryLover]

It's often a developmentl issue. Maybe step back for a few weeks and try again.

[alisoncooks]

Have you ever read that off the frig and onto homeschool book? She has this technique where they earn a penny for every move they make (correct question) in their phonics game.  (She made sort of a generic game board and used it to practice EVERYTHING.) Then they could save those pennies to earn stuff from the "bank."  Maybe that would add spice to your life?  Or at least some therapeutic shopping?   :)

 

I haven't read that, but I do think we would benefit from making reading instruction a more positive time.  I think oldest DD is getting tired of it to, the endless monotony...  (She fights reading tooth & nail -- she'll do a lesson with me, but will not read at all at any other point of the day.)  I bet some sort of fun system will get her on board. :)

[Heathermomster]

Would they respond well to tea and graham crackers with Mom?  I offer that up to DD provided she does not complain.  I whip out the tea pot and we drink from matching tea cups and saucers.

[Ottakee]

What program are you using?  What else have you tried?  Sometimes you need a specific program for kids that are really struggling.

 

Then again, I remember it took 2 WEEKS for my dd to learn to read the word I..........she could tell you that it was the LETTER I (as in it's name) but not read it as the WORD I...........no idea why though.  Her reading used to be so painfully slow I would almost doze off between words......honestly.

[beishan]

I feel you. I have a 8yo 3rd grader who is a struggling reader since 1st grade. In the past year, he has been working hard. He did daily 30 mins Wilson reading in school, 15 DB and 15 min ISS with me at home daily, and 1 hour OG tutoring per week with private tutor. He jumped from level D (early 1st grade level) at the beginning 2nd grade to level J (early 2nd grade level) at the end. We stopped reading instruction in summer. I only let him watch some ElizabethB phonic lesson video as review and read some of chapter books that he likes. We just started to pick up DB C this week and I can feel that he reads more confident and faster for 1-2 syllabus words but still struggles with multisyllabic words. Even though my son is still playing catch-up in reading, at least the gap is getting smaller and reading has become his favorite subject at school now. Hope you can get a better year in reading as well.

[maize]

I try really hard not to make school something the kids just slog through reluctantly. When I am up against a lot of resistance, I try one of the following strategies: 1) incentivise (try to figure out what motivates the specific child); 2) switch programs/approaches (play games, try an app, new curriculum, etc); 3) Take a break and try again in a few days/weeks/months.

 

With reading and math especially, I don't want the child to associate the process with drudgery.

[alisoncooks]

What program are you using?  What else have you tried?  Sometimes you need a specific program for kids that are really struggling.

 

We went through Dancing Bears A last year (2nd), but I decided I wanted something with a more traditional scope & sequence (DD needed some long vowel practice, pronto!)  This year we switched to High Noon Reading Intervention.  It still doesn't have as much instruction as I would want (ie. the workbook has the child spelling words that could be spelled multiple ways, but little help on which way to choose), but it's definitely an easy program for us to stick with.  And it feels more complete than DB...

 

I feel you. I have a 8yo 3rd grader who is a struggling reader since 1st grade. In the past year, he has been working hard. He did daily 30 mins Wilson reading in school, 15 DB and 15 min ISS with me at home daily, and 1 hour OG tutoring per week with private tutor.

 

Wow, maybe I should start increasing DD's reading practice time. :p  We currently do a 30ish-min. lesson in High Noon + a chapter or so from a "real" book in the evening.  She freaks if I ask her to do more (I'd like to do a DB page, also, or maybe Apples & Pears.)  Maybe I should try breaking these up during the day, so she doesn't feel so overwhelmed.  I do think DD needs *more* practice time, I just haven't been fighting for it like I should, especially now that her sister has been fighting me tooth & nail over reading/school. :o  

[hornblower]

My kids were both late readers so yeah, btdt.

 

Fwiw, I combined phonics with sight words. I used the key words series from ladybug. I'd read a page, the child would read the same page. Actually at the beginning, it's just one word, then one sentence. The next day we'd stay on the same page and see if the child could read it in their own. If they couldn't after a few moments of trying, then again, I'd read it, then they'd read it.

 

I still remember one of mine getting stuck on "the" and me having a not so nice mummy moment. Think Basil Fawlty having a fit.... "The, the the! We just read it 3 seconds ago.... The. T. H. E. The."

 

Patience is so not my strong suit.

 

Oh and when they finally got reading (& with mine, once it clicked, they made huge, rapid process in a matter of weeks), then you rewind the tape to the beginning because guess what? teaching spelling was even harder.. Sorry, if that is totally depressing...

[OneStepAtATime]

Do you have an assessment?  Maybe you posted and I just forgot.  In other words, do you know WHY reading is such a challenge for your kids?  Is there dyslexia, developmental vision issues, auditory processing challenges, etc?  

[beishan]

 

 

Wow, maybe I should start increasing DD's reading practice time. :p  We currently do a 30ish-min. lesson in High Noon + a chapter or so from a "real" book in the evening.  She freaks if I ask her to do more (I'd like to do a DB page, also, or maybe Apples & Pears.)  Maybe I should try breaking these up during the day, so she doesn't feel so overwhelmed.  I do think DD needs *more* practice time, I just haven't been fighting for it like I should, especially now that her sister has been fighting me tooth & nail over reading/school. :o

 

For us, it might be easier because we have several sets (reading specialist, class teacher, mommy and tutor) of people working on his reading in different ways and time slots so he does not get sick of the same face doing the same thing day and night. :P

 

And he got his reading glasses from COVD at the beginning of 2nd grade. He is slightly farsighted on left eye. The glasses may be helpful for his reading progress as well.

[alisoncooks]

Do you have an assessment?  Maybe you posted and I just forgot.  In other words, do you know WHY reading is such a challenge for your kids?  Is there dyslexia, developmental vision issues, auditory processing challenges, etc?  

 

No, we've not had any assessments.  I've looked into it but they're not covered by our insurance and the cheapest is through the Clinical Psych. Dept at the local university (still = $1,000+).

 

I would *love* to know WHY it's so challenging for oldest DD.  She wants to read and realizes that she's not reading like other kids her age.  My husband also struggled with reading in school.  I suspect dyslexia and ADHD...but cannot be 100% sure. 

[Crimson Wife]

A pediatric neurologist or child psychiatrist can diagnose ADHD because it's a medical condition, and that should be covered by your insurance. Dyslexia is not considered a medical condition so unfortunately an eval for that wouldn't be covered.

[ElizabethB]

:grouphug:

 

Good repetition/outsourcing materials in order of difficulty:

 

Talking frog, leapfrog letter factory, basic sounds.

 

Read, write, type. Basic phonics, easy to do on their own.

 

My online phonics lessons, for more advanced concepts while reviewing basic phonics concepts.

 

For students that need a lot of help with the sounds, I like the Phonovisual charts. Don Potter finally convinced me to try them, I should have switched to them years ago. Far easier to point to the chart than repeat the sounds 10,000 times.

 

https://www.phonovisual.com/products.php?c=1

 

My game is also good, but it is not outsourced unless you pay a teen or older child to play:

 

http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Phonics/concentrationgam.html

[PeterPan]

No, we've not had any assessments.  I've looked into it but they're not covered by our insurance and the cheapest is through the Clinical Psych. Dept at the local university (still = $1,000+).

 

I would *love* to know WHY it's so challenging for oldest DD.  She wants to read and realizes that she's not reading like other kids her age.  My husband also struggled with reading in school.  I suspect dyslexia and ADHD...but cannot be 100% sure. 

Have you thought of going through the ps?

[ElizabethB]

Have you given the Barton screening to see if something like LiPS would help?

 

Also, here is the vision symptom list:

 

https://covd.site-ym.com/?page=Symptoms

 

If the exam and/or therapy is not covered, you could just work through the whole $50 vision exercises book.

[alisoncooks]

Have you thought of going through the ps?

 

I don't know if I can?  We're in NC... not sure how all that would work...

[OneStepAtATime]

If your children are dyslexic, then you may need a program that breaks things down into much smaller pieces, such as Wilson, Barton Reading and Spelling or Lindamood Bell.  But there may be other things causing reading to be a challenge.  Until you have solid answers you may be spinning your wheels for years.  While public school assessments are not always all that thorough or even performed by truly qualified individuals, there are many school systems that actually DO have some solid expertise and might be able to help.  But you will almost certainly have to put it in writing and it may take a significant amount of time before they will perform the assessment even after they receive the written request and discuss it with you.  You might see if any local Universities might have something cheaper.  Or you might have a Scottish Rite in your area that could possibly do an assessment.

 

Have you read Homeschooling Your Struggling Learner by Kathy Kuhl, or Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz, or The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide, or even The Dyslexic Advantage by Brock and Fernette Eide?  Just some things that might help you in various ways...

 

Hugs, OP.  I know this is frustrating.

[srs]

We are in VA, and the ps did a reading assessment for us, free, no hassle, and it was quite helpful. I emailed our district to ask about it.

[beishan]

You can start with pediatric neurologist in your insurance network to see if there is any medical condition involved. Pyschological evaluation and neuro-development evaluation should be covered by insurance. Only educational testing is not covered but you can go to public school for that. Check ChildFind program in your state or local district. With this program, I believe that PS has obligation to help any SN children no matter they are living in the district or not. In our state, PS needs to respond to your written request in certain timeframe and provide the evaluation result within 6 weeks.

[alisoncooks]

Wow, this thread has been so helpful!  I did look up some of the suggestions here and have found 2 possible paths to take.

We do have a Scottish Rite testing location at a local university (local = 2 hours away, but that's not a biggie).  The only problem with that is they require an IQ test within the last 3 years, so there's that extra hoop to jump through.  (Not sure about cost or insurance coverage or even where I'd go for that...)

 

But I did look up the Child Find program listed above and called/talked to someone at the Exceptional Children's Assistance Center Parent Information Line (what a mouthful, LOL).  That lovely lady said that the local PS is required to test my kiddo PLUS she will be sending me a packet of information (including a ready-made letter that I can use when I go by the school to request the evaluation.)

 

Woot-woot!  Thank you, ladies!
I told DH:  I'm sure there is a reason why many folk prefer to go to private testing sites, but it's not like we're going to have to fight the PS for services with DD.  We're not looking for therapy or services -- we just want official confirmation that her struggles are legit (and not just a result of stubbornness or poor teaching. :o)

[beishan]

Happy that info is helpful and get you started. Good luck! PS is doing reading/writing assessment for the beginning of the year now. You may just come in time to do it. They will also have CogAT test (The Cognitive Abilities Test) coming up in October.

[alisoncooks]

Happy that info is helpful and get you started. Good luck! PS is doing reading/writing assessment for the beginning of the year now. You may just come in time to do it. They will also have CogAT test (The Cognitive Abilities Test) coming up in October.

 

Do the public schools test IQ at all in their evals?  Not sure what the CogAT is...

 

(Just curious whether or not I could get the IQ through the PS...and then later do the Scottish Rite testing, if needed, which required an IQ test... :p)

[beishan]

I don't think PS will do IQ test. I thought IQ won't stabilize till later? CigAR is more like reasoning ability. My son's teacher mentioned it last school year to us. They like to compare the cognitive ability to the performance in school and make sure they do bring up the potential of each student. If cognitive ability is high and school performance is low, then they will need to look into learning difference.

[alisoncooks]

IDK.  I was just looking at the website for the Scottish Rite testing site, and for children over 8 they require an IQ test to proceed.  :confused1:

 

LOL, I suppose you meant CogAT, but CigAr made me  :lol: .  ("My kid took the cigar test today...")

[Dagne]

You are definitely not alone! My Dd will be 8 next month and is just now sounding out CVC words, so we've still got a few years of reading instruction to go. 

 

Two of my kids have been evaluated through the public school system, and both had their IQs tested. Ds was behind in all academic areas and Dd's speech/language is delayed, so the school psychologist wanted to rule out intellectual impairment in both cases. If it's clear that your daughter does not have a low IQ, they might not bother testing it. It's definitely something worth asking about though.  

[beishan]

IDK.  I was just looking at the website for the Scottish Rite testing site, and for children over 8 they require an IQ test to proceed.  :confused1:

 

LOL, I suppose you meant CogAT, but CigAr made me  :lol: .  ("My kid took the cigar test today...")

 

Oh :crying:  I was typing on the phone and the self spelling correction did that...apparently the smart phone is too smart.

 

Yes, it should be CogAT (Cognitive Abilities Test). I take a look at the sample, and part of it did look like the IQ test we had when I was younger (I grew up in Asia). My friend's school district uses CogAT as one of identifying factors for GT program. In my son's case, he is progressing with school support so I guess the school does not bother to test IQ. They more concern about his attention. While meeting pediatric neurologist in August, she also did simple achievement test. For reading, she asked him to read word list and he made it to 3rd grade level so doctor believes that there is no clear sign for learning disability involved at this moment. My son's 2nd grade teacher also mentioned that she believed that he should not be low in CogAT because he can learn well when he has interest or pays attention. I think maturity also plays certain role in our case. The ability to learn, cooridnate with teacher, digest materials and retain/apply the knowledge is improving with his age. He progressed only 2 guided reading level in 1st grade (while most children could progress 4-5 levels in a school year) and was able to make up 6 levels in 2nd grade school year with intensive support.

[FairProspects]

IDK.  I was just looking at the website for the Scottish Rite testing site, and for children over 8 they require an IQ test to proceed.  :confused1:

 

LOL, I suppose you meant CogAT, but CigAr made me  :lol: .  ("My kid took the cigar test today...")

 

They have to have an IQ test because it is part of the requirement for diagnosing dyslexia. By definition dyslexia is an LD in a person of average or above average IQ. If the overall IQ is low, then you are not dealing with an LD but a different issue and Scottish Rite does not help in those cases.

[Crimson Wife]

They have to have an IQ test because it is part of the requirement for diagnosing dyslexia. By definition dyslexia is an LD in a person of average or above average IQ. If the overall IQ is low, then you are not dealing with an LD but a different issue and Scottish Rite does not help in those cases.

 

Yep, this is the issue we're having with trying to get youngest DD in to the closest Scottish Rite for their Fast ForWord program. The director is reluctant because DD's diagnosis is "classic" autism and the director considers that to be a global developmental delay with a poor prognosis. She doesn't seem to understand that it is a spectrum and that while some kids are indeed severely impaired, others are higher-functioning. So the director wants all sorts of documentation to prove that DD is cognitively capable of benefitting from the therapy. It's a big hassle but given that the Scottish Rite clinic would be free, I'm gritting my teeth.

[alisoncooks]

The fates must've heard my cries, LOL, and sent me a little blip of joy:  

 

Oldest DD just came out from her room, where she'd been quietly entertaining herself while I did math with her sister.  She proudly informed me that she'd just read the first chapter in a Magic Treehouse book (and was able to retell a large bit of it to me).  I did not tell her to (I thought she was drawing, which is her usual quiet entertainment).  AND she said she was going to read ANOTHER chapter in a little bit.

 

Yes:  I am currently doing The Cabbage Patch.   And the Running Man.  And every other cheesy dance I know.

:party:  :party:  :party:

[beishan]

Maybe it's about time for our 8yo to CLICK on reading? My son just got the remarkable progress card from his 3rd grade teacher on Monday. His reading level jumps from K to M in less than a month. For your information, level M is the benchmark level for end of second grade. That means...HE IS NOW READING ON GRADE LEVEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!