? for 8FillTheHeart Re: Science and History- Interest Led Planning

[Soror]

I've read several of your posts about science but one thing I've not grasped is how exactly you pre-plan with it being interest led. I know I've read that you plan for 6 weeks at a time, so do you ask them what they are going to be reading in the next 6 weeks? Do you have that large of a home library to have them choose from OR do you take them to the library to pick out some books? I don't necessarily make it to the library that often and my home library isn't as large as I'd like so it has always stymied me as to how to make that work here. However, as I'm feeling better and able to take on more I'm trying to figure out how to make the process work here as I think it would suite us well. I would also like to tie our writing to our content to have him practice the skills he is learning in TC but I'm trying to make sure I understand the process and as you have far more experience I was hoping to glean some knowledge from your btdt experience.

 

This year I've taken some inspiration from you and Ruth in how I planned our year but it isn't entirely interest led. I did ask ds what he was interested in when I started planning in the spring and then I researched the topic and found and bought appropriate books. Now the first 6 weeks we just read from our stack of books. This 6 weeks I've worked on planning a bit more. I've assigned page numbers and have small assignments for him related to whatever he is reading. These assignments are more like making lists(list different ways the spider captures prey- what are the differences between land and water snails) , answering questions (What class do spiders belong in?), performing simple activities from the book (build a simple bug trap and perform one of the listed experiments), journaling (diagram the life process of the beetle) and using the internet to further learn about topics(what are the poisonous spiders in our state?). This is my first foray into giving him these type of assignments so I'm trying to keep it simple and also varied so I can get a better idea of where he is at, what he enjoys and what works well for him. As I don't want him to be doing paragraphs and reports until after finishing TC I wanted him to at least start working on discriminating info at least in a basic way and I figured it would be good practice in planning for me. For history we've just read together for the most part. I have some readaloud and some silent reading. 

 

He is just now starting the 2nd part of your program and his EF and Memory isn't the best so I'm not having him do paragraphs or reports yet, that is why I'm looking towards doing this more next year but I'm trying to get a grasp on the process for this year. As I understand it for their content related writing assignments you skim/pre-read the books and then pick a particular topic you want them to learn more about. After picking a topic you find a few age appropriate articles. At first you go through the articles with them to help them discriminate and highlight relevant info, next you work with them on taking notes and lastly they work on putting those together into a paragraph/report (depending on their ages). As they learn the process you provide less support as they go and increase length and difficulty.

 

I've also read you start this in 3rd but your writing program is geared towards 3rd to 5th, so I'm curious do you expect all of yours to be working on paragraphs at that age, it would seem no by your recommendation for TC but what do they do if they aren't? Do they do copywork from their books? Do you keep it to sentences? My daughter will be in 3rd next year so I'm thinking of her as well, she is on her way to being a strong reader but she isn't there yet. She is working on sentences this year but I don't know that she will be ready for TC next year. 

 

Thanks in advance for your info, I've searched your past posts but I haven't found this specific info. As I said I like the idea of doing interest led but I also want to be able to pre-plan a bit and also being able to start integrating our writing is a real draw as well. I just want to make sure I'm understanding what I'm doing and as you have so much more experience I'd love to glean what I can from how you do it to make the process work well. 

[Kidlit]

I'm listening in. :)

[justamouse]

:bigear:

[8filltheheart]

I'm traveling. I won't have time to respond until tomorrow.

[Soror]

Thanks for checking in, we will be patiently waiting. Have a safe trip!

[Mrs. A]

Another who's listening in  :lurk5:

[idnib]

:lurk5:

[8filltheheart]

Soror,

 

Your post demonstrates that you have established a great approach to meet the needs of your child! That should always be the primary objective. Your plan sounds solid.

 

In terms of my kids, it really depends on the child and individual abilities. For example, my current 10th grader was an advanced student. She was doing all the grammar in TC in 2nd grade. She was easily mastering the concepts in the 3rd portion of TC at the beginning of 3rd grade. My current 3rd grader, who is old for 3rd grade since she turned 9 the end of July (I held her back in K), is more on par with where you describe your ds or,even more realistically, behind him.

 

My 10th grader was capable of reading science books independently, working with me to highlight key info from 3 articles, synthesizing the info into a cohesive whole, and writing a report when she was an early 3rd grader. My current 3rd grader--I read her science aloud to her. She is definitely at the copywork stage. More than likely it will take her 3rd and 4th to get to the level where TC ends. If it takes her even longer than that, it takes her longer than that. She is not "classic" dyslexic like her brothers, but I do believe she is dyslexic. Her progress is that of a tortoise. But, that is OK! Slow and steady wins the race. Her progress is real, just slow. Her progress compared to her is the only thing that matters. Putting her in a situation of being overwhelmed, shutting down, and feeling like a failure serves no purpose other than destroying her beliefs in her own abilities.

 

My plan for her right now is to only focus on discussing science and history. Fiction writing holds more appeal for her. (I have had kids where non-fiction writing was more appealing, so I go with what works.) We will be working on breaking down paragraphs and rebuilding them like in the 2nd portion of TC until she has completely mastered those concepts with confidence.

 

We are focusing on finding key pts in non-fiction via 100% dialogue for now. The conversations are simply natural extensions from my reading aloud. I stop and talk to her and ask her questions, etc. We look up additional info on line for things we are interested in more details, etc. But it is nothing formal or planned. For now, this is just going with what comes up during the day's reading.

 

When she is ready to progress to more, it will look more like the descriptions I have posted in the past. I do have an extensive personal library. (I have friends who like to browse our shelves so that they can in turn go purchase books or find them in the library.) There are times when my kids are interested in a topic and our city's library has a decent selection, so we simply use the books they have. If not, I order books.

 

I know my kids' reading abilities, so I can look at the book and know how many pages they can read in 30-45 mins. I assign pages accordingly. When discussing the books with them, I want to ensure that they are comprehending their reading. I use open-ended questions which require comprehension in order for them to articulate an answer. The areas where I want them to remember or understand at a more complex level, those are the topics I select for researching articles.

 

How you describe your process that you have devised for your ds seems like a perfect blend of approaches for his abilities and your objectives. They are meeting his abilities, increasing his ability to discern info,but not overwhelming his level of written communication.

 

FWIW, this is why I say TC is for a range of grade levels. Even the individual sections may fit different ranges. My dd is perfectly capable of mastering the content in the first section but independent writing that is legible will be a much slower process.

 

I don't know if that is the type of answer you were seeking. If not, ask away. I am typing while multi-tasking, so I am not even sure if my answer is completely coherent!

 

BTW, the third section of TC is only a close replica of what we do here. I really struggled with finding appropriate content available in the public domain. I tried to find progressively difficult excerpts to develop the skill of discerning key info. Finding appropriate articles on the internet is actually much easier and more effective in targeting specific content. Reading that section as a "how to" section and adapting the methodology to your own content would definitely be a great option.

[Soror]

Thank you for giving us some more info about how you adjust for the different ages and levels of your kids. It does help to see the range, which I know my own children may or may not fall within. My son actually sounds very similar to your current 3rd grader, he has a late July b-day and officially I have him in 4th grade (although we don't have to declare grades). He is making great progress but writing has been especially slow going, although his listening comprehension is great. His fine motor skills still aren't up to par(my almost 5yo surpasses him in some areas) and the copywork in your program is the most physical writing he's ever done, anything we did before was me scribing, doing it orally or typing. So, although I have tried very hard to be realistic about where he is and meeting him there I do appreciate that part of your post, although that wasn't what I was asking for, it is still nice to have some confirmation.

 

I believe I understand the writing portion of your approach, well not perfectly I'm sure but I believe I see the progression and can see a path to progress from where we are now, as I said we're just starting on this type of work as nearly all of our previous work was oral and the bulk of his writing right now is in TC but we are/have made loads of progress. I'm enjoying the incremental and explicit nature of your program.

 

What I'm still not sure about is the planning, which probably seems self-explanatory but I'm not quite understanding it. I Iove the idea of making our studies more interest led but still pre-planning it to a certain degree. That is in a way what I'm trying to do but what I'm trying to ascertain is if there is a way to keep this level of planning but increasing ds' input. I'm trying to figure out that process and I don't know that I'm really grasping it, please excuse my denseness. I understood that you write plans 6 weeks at a time, so do you ask them what they want to study for 6 weeks at a time? Do you do that for both science and history? Or do they pick a topic/era for the whole year before it starts?

 

For your current 3rd grader who is more interested in fiction I understand it that you are taking fiction paragraphs for her to dissect? Do those come from your reading? Or are you making up paragraphs like for TC? 

 

Again many thanks for your time and patience, I'm trying to wrap my brain around it all and I work so much better when I can see things, so I'm sure the lack of understanding is on my end.  I've dreamed about being able to integrate our writing into our content but as of yet I've never been able to pull it off, I'm really excited about the prospect of being able to do this, at least for a portion of our writing next year. I can see this working really well and being simpler if I can work out all the kinks. 

 

Anyway, I am totally out of time, so I hope that is at least somewhat coherent between all the interruptions I've had.

[8filltheheart]

This is how it works for science:

For younger kids, I give them options to choose from. As they get older, they progress to directly selecting.  My younger kids really don't know what topics even exist.   I typically give them a generic list, and if something catches their attention from the list, I might narrow it down to more specifics for them to select or I might make the decision on my own.   As we go through that topic, they might ask to study more about that topic, or they might move on to something else.   When my ds that just graduated from high school was in 3rd grade, we went through every book our library had on bees, ants, and spiders.   He was fascinated by them.   We ended up getting an ant farm that yr.   ;)

 

As they get older, they browse the library or our shelves and decide what they want to read.   I offer suggestions if they aren't sure where they want to head.   

 

For history:

I typically offer broad categories for a yearly theme and they can select the theme.   For example, my 7th grader chose American history this yr and she is reading her way through our American Heritage Jr Library collection.   I am reading through a collection of famous heros and explorers with my 3rd grader.   We wander off to geography studies, etc as we go along.   My 10th grader has spent the past several months on Russian culture and history.   When she finishes her current book, we are going to switch gears to study of political systems, especially the rise of communism and facsism.   We are going to combine that study with a Russian lit study for the second semester.  (This semester she is doing a Coursera lit study that is completely different: Fantasy and Science Fiction)

 

But mostly, I don't worry about gaps.   I concentrate on covering the topics in great depth.   When you cover history and science topics deeply, the layers and levels of overlapping topics are amazing.   The gaps are really not as gaping as you would expect b/c it isn't snippet coverage.  History around the world and various time periods twist and intertwine.  Same with science topics.   The coverage does not at all resemble what they would be getting in a textbook, but the coverage is there.

 

Yes, I typically plan for about 6 weeks at a time.   We meet and decide selections before I write the next set of plans.   Sometimes the books they select won't cover the entire 6 weeks, so they may end up selecting 2 or 3.  The amt assigned is what I estimate takes 30-60 minutes to read (depends on if we are talking elem, middle, or high school ages.)

 

ETA: Yikes, that is gobbly gook.  Sorry.   I typed while chatting with dh.   I don't have time to go back and rewrite it.   I did change some of the major issues!

[Soror]

Wonderful, that is exactly the details I was curious about, thanks so much. It is really helpful to see the different ways that people plan. I was just trying to wrap my brain around how you do it but was missing some info. It makes since to offer limited options for the younger ages, as I know with my own they don't even know all that is out there, so I wasn't sure if I was misunderstanding.

 

I had thought about sending you a pm but then I thought if I was going to use your time it might as well benefit the entire community and seeing all the people following this thread I'm glad I did so. 

 

I know for me I'm doing the most planning I've ever done this year and although I've been pleased so far I'm sure smart enough to know that there is plenty I don't know as I just don't have that much experience. I greatly appreciate you offering your experience and perspective as someone who has been at this for far longer. For the most part I feel like we are on the right path but I'm certainly seeing where I can give the kids some more input and still keep things organized, which is exactly the kind of info that I was looking for.