Did you decide to homeschool your 2e child? X-Post general ed

[displace]

We're currently investigating the possibility of a 2nd e for our gifted child.  I'm suspecting a LD such as dyslexia or dysgraphia.  Currently we afterschool to remediate what could be a 2nd e.  We do HWT, AAR, keyboarding without tears, teacher homework papers, and read alouds 5 days per week :(.  We will soon likely start AAS.  There is little to no time for gifted fun stuff except weekend trips, fun tablet educational apps, talking and discussions, and the read alouds.

 

Already DS is saying he's not smart, why isn't he in the gifted program at school (we removed him because of his struggles), why doesn't he read/write like others/etc.  These questions are difficult for me to put into words for him (he's early elementary school) and explain.  That's one thing.  But more than that I feel like my remediating is basically all of his schooling.  Because of circumstances we need to wait another few months before testing again for the 2nd e, and I am deeply concerned about getting the PS to teach appropriately/make accommodations.  My concerns stem from knowledge of other students needing accommodations but not my specific LD concerns.  From my limited understanding of dyslexia, if a lot of bad reading habits can be avoided DS will be much better off.  And if there is dysgraphia, most of the handwriting requirements will need to be severely changed.  His whole day is spent reading and writing and if there are LD a lot will need to be accommodated (I think almost all of his assignments).

 

I'm anxious about advocating for accommodations, waiting for them to be implemented, and still him missing out.  The gifted teachers seemed clueless when discussing LD and giftedness.  And HS isn't likely a slam dunk for our family.  It would be possible but DS learns a lot differently than I teach.  I'm not an educator, though I'm very educated.  Our personalities clash, and while I'm looking to improve how we interact, I'm not the cheerful teacher DS has at school.  I did afterschool throughout the summer and it was better because we had all day to get through our stuff, but I still get a lot of complaints about working, etc.

 

I guess if there's any wisdom you can share I'd love to hear it.  Especially discussing 2e with young children (how to explain), decisions to HS from PS with 2e, decisions to stay in PS with 2e, etc. 

[OneStepAtATime]

My DD is not gifted but she is bright and has LD's.  Homeschooling has been a WAY better option for her.  School was a nightmare.  But school was an even bigger nightmare for my DS, who is close to gifted range.  He did great until 2nd grade because he had individual strengths that kept him going.  But by 2nd grade his undiagnosed dyslexia and dysgraphia coupled with a teacher who took his struggles as bad attitude yanked the rug right out from under him.  It was a nightmare year and he still struggles with the emotional aftermath.  Unfortunately, I am not good at teaching a child who has tremendous gifts and tremendous weaknesses.  While I know pulling him out of school was our only real option, and I believe homeschooling is still our only real option right now, I am not a good fit for the way he learns.  We have had some really challenging times.  I won't lie to you.  

 

Getting professional evaluations may help you determine where his strengths and weaknesses really are, which may help you find a better path.

 

As for homeschooling in particular, from my perspective, if the school is already demoralizing him, and you are getting bad vibes about how the school will react to future learning with a 2e kid, then homeschooling would definitely seem the better option....but, I would HIGHLY recommend seeing what options you have for outsourcing certain areas of learning, such as maybe a local homeschooling group that does science classes or has a history club, etc.  And contact local community resources.  See if there are any companies that offer hands on learning experiences for homeschooled children or see if there are any great after schooling programs.  Be careful with the afterschooling programs, though.  Where we live there are very few and the ones that my son has attended with the after school crowd are no longer working for us.  The ps kids, by 5th grade, are jaded and hate "learning".  They make fun of DS for wanting to learn which has undermined him even further.

 

Gotta go but I may post more later....good luck.  Hugs.

[Trilliums]

I have two 2e kids.  We started homeschooling when the oldest was half way through grade 1.  My kids are now high school age (one is a senior and one is a junior--they are close in age).

 

I was initially reluctant to homeschool them.  I felt overwhelmed and confused.  But my older son, in particular, was miserable in grade 1.  He tried so hard but much of what they expected of him was simply not working--it was not even appropriate for his mind.  He also started to feel as though he was a failure, hated math and loudly declared that he would never learn how to read.  My younger son is also dyslexic but not nearly as severely as my older son. 

 

Two people influenced our decision to homeschool.  One was the ps special ed teacher.  She said that son would not receive any services until he was academically two years behind (at that point he was not behind the basic guidelines at all but something was clearly wrong).  Additionally, she said that the way schools taught, including special ed programs, simply did not match a certain segment of children.  She felt that services the school had to offer still would not meet son's needs.  Second was the educational psychologist who evaluated older son.  She said that we could try various programs (she mentioned many used for dyslexics) or alternatively, she suggested  we just wait and let son's "parts all catch up with each other".  

 

We tried skill remediation and it was a nightmare.  I had much self doubt and crises of thought (am I ruining and dooming my children?? etc).  I often thought of the psychologist and felt in my gut that really giving the kids time to grow up and develop without a lot of academic demands was the right path.  This took me a couple of years to accept though because I had a pretty strongly entrenched idea of what education should look like.  Once I gave up many of those notions, we developed our own picture of learning and it involved a lot of discussions, a lot of input (reading, listening, watching virtually every documentary in the library,) and a lot of doing (building pulleys, counting coins, measuring our yard, cats, green beans) etc, especially for the elementary years.  We did not do a lot of worksheets, busy work, required assignments etc.  My son learned to read around age 9 without any kind of special program.  He listened to numerous audio books and I think this helped him learn how to read.  I credit Artemis Fowl and Eragon in particular because he listened to the first ones in the  series and then read the later ones.   

 

Homeschooling has allowed my kids to grow into strong independent learners.  I honestly do not think they would be where they are now academically and emotionally if they had stayed in school.  I write that hesitantly because I do not want to make ps out to be the "bad guy".  I have a great deal of respect for the hard work teachers have put in on my children's behalf.  I do think, however, that as the special ed teacher said, a segment of kids are not well served by the ps methodology particularly in the younger grades.  Both kids started to attend out public high school 2 years ago in order to take advantage of advanced science classes and computer science.  This was a scary decision for all of us.  We had no clue how well they would do in public high school after years of basically unschooling (or interest led schooling).  Well, once they learned which way to orient a piece of paper and where to put their name, they flourished.  Younger son has decided to stay at the high school and will probably complete the next two years there.  He is in a mix of regular, honors and AP classes plus an independent study in data structures since he finished AP Computer Science last year and his teacher offered to do more programming with him.   Older son is basically done with what  high school has to offer and is homeschooling his senior year.  He is taking 4 classes at the university here, two second year math classes and two second year physics classes ( he took AP Calc and AP Physics at the high school).  I know he would not be on this advanced math and science path if he had stayed in public school.  I think he would likely still feel like a failure as well as feel that no one understood him at all.  

 

For my kids, it turned out that it didn't matter if they learned the way I taught because I finally stopped trying to teach them things and instead focused on helping them learn.  OK, that sounds kind of paradoxical and contradictory, but I saw a huge difference in our house between trying to force work on them and working on activities that enhanced learning.  By middle school my kids were staring to warm up to more structured work.  I really do not think they were even ready for it prior to that.  Kids CAN go on to high school level work without repetitive drills and worksheets and practicing this and that over and over and over again.  They can learn critical thinking and analytical skills without using a curriculum or a text book.  

 

One day shortly after we started homeschooling, we went out to lunch mid day.  Son did not want anyone to know we were homeschoolers.  It finally came out that he thought we were homeschooling because he had basically *failed* at regular school.  Now, he was totally on board with homeschooling and hugely relieved, but still in his mind he had the notion that we had to resort to it because there was something wrong with him.  OK< so some people might say there is something wrong with him.  But I decided to present it to him as a continuum.  If you look at a continuum of the color red fading into white, you see it passes through many stages or phases.  In a large portion of the continuum  the color is neither red nor white, but they are still valid and interesting colors.   We talked about schools being set up in such a way that they had to teach as many kids as possible and they simply didn't have the resources to meet the needs of all the different shades of learners in the class room.  

 

Also, I read portions of the book The Gift of Dyslexia to my son.  I read that book and thought the guy sounded really out there.  My kids listened to me read it and said, "That is exactly what my mind is like!"

 

Good luck with whatever you decide!

 

 

 

We're currently investigating the possibility of a 2nd e for our gifted child.  I'm suspecting a LD such as dyslexia or dysgraphia.  Currently we afterschool to remediate what could be a 2nd e.  We do HWT, AAR, keyboarding without tears, teacher homework papers, and read alouds 5 days per week :(.  We will soon likely start AAS.  There is little to no time for gifted fun stuff except weekend trips, fun tablet educational apps, talking and discussions, and the read alouds.

 

Already DS is saying he's not smart, why isn't he in the gifted program at school (we removed him because of his struggles), why doesn't he read/write like others/etc.  These questions are difficult for me to put into words for him (he's early elementary school) and explain.  That's one thing.  But more than that I feel like my remediating is basically all of his schooling.  Because of circumstances we need to wait another few months before testing again for the 2nd e, and I am deeply concerned about getting the PS to teach appropriately/make accommodations.  My concerns stem from knowledge of other students needing accommodations but not my specific LD concerns.  From my limited understanding of dyslexia, if a lot of bad reading habits can be avoided DS will be much better off.  And if there is dysgraphia, most of the handwriting requirements will need to be severely changed.  His whole day is spent reading and writing and if there are LD a lot will need to be accommodated (I think almost all of his assignments).

 

I'm anxious about advocating for accommodations, waiting for them to be implemented, and still him missing out.  The gifted teachers seemed clueless when discussing LD and giftedness.  And HS isn't likely a slam dunk for our family.  It would be possible but DS learns a lot differently than I teach.  I'm not an educator, though I'm very educated.  Our personalities clash, and while I'm looking to improve how we interact, I'm not the cheerful teacher DS has at school.  I did afterschool throughout the summer and it was better because we had all day to get through our stuff, but I still get a lot of complaints about working, etc.

 

I guess if there's any wisdom you can share I'd love to hear it.  Especially discussing 2e with young children (how to explain), decisions to HS from PS with 2e, decisions to stay in PS with 2e, etc. 

 

[PeterPan]

On my phone so being fast. One, you're underestimating your ability to do this. Two, you're underestimating the help we can give you (and the psych!) to be confident and eliminate some of that conflict. We got our peace and you can too. You can do it. :)

[Erin]

In my area, gifted programs don't even exist.  Kids might be tested, but after that it's irrelevant because it just goes into their file as a label.  

So, that, coupled with the fact that my kid is definitely 2E (dyslexic and possibly ADD), homeschooling just solves a whole host of issues.  

 

Personally, I'm a K-8 classroom teacher.  But I always tell people that really, the only thing being a teacher has done for me so far as homeschooling goes, is give me the confidence to know that I can do this. 

 

 

Homeschooling is more akin to parenting than it is teaching.  

Have you figured out how to parent this kid yet?  If so, you can probably manage homeschooling, too.  :)

[Heathermomster]

One np who tested DS told me to homeschool him.  She explained that son's needs in terms of strengths AND weaknesses could never be properly addressed in the school setting.  

 

When DS was tested, I explained the results to him.  A learning issue is not the result of some moral failing.  Let's be honest here...Yes, gifted is nice but he did nothing to earn it.  DS was born that way.  You can no more control the IQ you are born with than the country or parents you are born to. In short, I don't make hay about IQ with my kids and teach up where they need it and remediate the needs.

 

I'm not overly educated myself.  I hold a four year science degree and homeschooling my children was never on my radar. The fact is that our children need us and we love them.  I went from never dreaming I could teach my kiddos to full belief that I could or hire a subject matter expert who could.  I started to see the challenges and to feel compassion for DS.  He has specific needs that he was born with.  I have learned that with patience and appropriate teaching, he is entirely capable of learning large amounts of information.  I now focus my interests on attempting to be the best teacher for my kids.  My kids inspire me and I enjoy being with them.  You can do this, and with a 2e, there is never a dull moment.

 

 

[hornblower]

I have a 2e kid but the kid didn't get tested until 18 when she wanted documentation for poss accommodations at college.

I've homeschooled her all along so I was hs'ing a 2e kid without officially knowing it :)

I think homeschooling is a wonderful option for 2e kids - or as i prefer to think of it "asynchronous learners". Just follow their lead. It doesn't matter if they're working on Gr. 1 spelling & Gr. 5 math & reading Gr. 12 lit all at the same time.

I live in a very hs friendly location. We don't have to meet any grade levels, we don't have to test, we don't have to follow any set curriculum. We've been free to do our own thing, on our own schedule & you know, it all does work out.

Humans are programmed for learning. It's what we do (unless we've had our confidence in our own abilities completely shattered by a school system that labels you as inadequate if you don't meet some arbitrary standard...; those folks often give up on themselves).

I would like to echo what's been said above - homeschooling is more about parenting than teaching. It's about creating a relationship. It's about creating an environment where learning is appreciated, where individual talents and interests are honored and encouraged. 

[Laura Corin]

Yes - that was our initial reason to home educate.  Calvin was very bright but had delayed motor skills.  The school did some work with him on his handwriting, but what he really needed was time.  By home educating, I was able to take the pressure off the motor skills whilst continuing to work on them steadily.  At the same, time, C was able to progress at his own rate, working mostly orally.  

 

In the end the motor skills improved - he still has special permission to use a keyboard for exams, but he can write okay, and he has recently taught himself to play the bass guitar.

 

Good luck.

 

L

[Jean in Newcastle]

I planned to homeschool no matter what kind of kids I had.  But I've been especially glad that I went that route as I've discovered my children's strengths and weaknesses.  It has allowed my kids to (mostly) avoid the stigma of being square pegs in round holes.  I'm trained as a special ed teacher and have taught at private schools for the gifted as well as worked with the learning disability side of things.  What I'm able to do at home is much better individually than anything I saw or did in the classroom.  That doesn't mean that there aren't challenges!  But I can work on those challenges in a very specific way that cannot be done in an institutionalized (ie. brick and mortar) setting.  

[Mrs. Tharp]

If you want to continue working with the school, I'd recommend requesting that the school evaluate him as soon as possible and that you get a private evaluation as well for additional information. Once/if  there is an official diagnosis, the school should be much more forthcoming about what they can and cannot do to accommodate him and you will have a much better idea of how to advocate for him in that setting. You will also have a clearer idea of what your goals would be, should you choose to hs or continue in ps. Information is power.

[Lecka]

My son is not gifted, so that is not a factor.  He is a smart kid, but the school curriculum is very appropriate for him as far as his interests and his level.    

 

I have had some good luck with advocating for him in school, and then some times have been rougher.  

 

I afterschooled him for his reading remediation.  That worked out okay.  My son did make great progress.  It was not always the funnest time, but it was okay.      

 

Now he still has struggles with handwriting.  I have had times when I communicate to his teacher things the OT has said, and go back and forth between the teacher and the OT.  For a while my son was in school OT and private OT, and both these women were very willing to talk to me and give advice, and willing to speak directly to his teacher, etc.  

 

For myself -- when I feel like I have "back up" in the form of another professional, it is not so hard.  I am just sharing information with the teacher.  

 

There have been some sad things happen, too.  My son had a lot of trouble with timed math facts in 2nd grade, and ultimately I talked to his teacher, and he was allowed to do his orally in the hallway with an aide.  It worked out -- but my son was sad for a while without anyone knowing.  But I think it is important for him to see that things can work out -- since things did work out.  I think it helped him see it is worth letting someone know there is a problem instead of not saying anything.  But, that is a sadness he would not have experienced if he were homeschooled, and it was not on my radar ahead of time.  

 

But, my son's school/teachers are helpful.  And, my son's personality is one where he does not mind some things, that I think would really bother some other kids.

 

I think if you decide on public school, you must deal with advocating and keeping up with things.  And, still need to work on things at home or hire a tutor or whatever -- it is really possible he will not get the remediation he needs through school.  If it happens, great.  If it doesn't -- don't think you can let them deal with it.  

 

My son has always had a pull towards school, so it would have had to get to be a bad situation, or heading that way, for me to consider home school.  That is just the way I feel -- I have a strong preference for public school and think his is a good place for him.  But if he is having a bad experience there then I do not want him there.  If he has a bad experience but it can be improved -- that is okay with me, I don't draw the line to prevent that possibility.  But I think it is something where many people choose to make that their line -- and there is a lot to be said for that.  

 

A lot will depend on the school and your son's personality, though.  

 

The book I have recommended to me by others, is From Emotions to Advocacy by Pete Wright.  It is in our library.  I have looked over it several times.  It is a scary book about worst case scenarios, it was scary to me the first time I read it, and influenced me to doing a lot of afterschooling and remediation with my son -- I think for the best.  But as it has taken more than that (his handwriting) I have needed to be less scared, and this is where having an OT on my side is so good.  It might be a tutor, a reading specialist, a speech therapist, anybody -- or you may not need that.  But for me, it is a huge weight lifted.  

 

And back to the book -- it says a lot of things are prevented when parents are informed and don't make a mistake of being either too trusting or too suspicious.  I think I have always been in-the-middle even though I am more of a suspicious person in a lot of ways.  I have seen how acting on suspicious feelings may not be the most productive thing (it would be the same if I was too trusting).  That is me summarizing -- but I think it really helped me to see how I should act and what I should expect.  But then -- my son's school is also one where they are helpful.

 

They may not be informed -- mostly they are not informed at all.  But, a willingness to listen to information a parent shares, or that comes from the child's OT or reading tutor or from an eval, I find to go an extremely long way.  Maybe they aren't informed and knowledgable about my son's specific issues.  But, they are good teachers and they are open.  

 

So I have also been disappointed, I often think "there is no way my son is the only kid who has ever had this issue" all the time.  And sometimes they are informed!  But often they are not informed.  But -- when they are open to new information, and flexible, then already being informed has not turned out to be a problem.  It is an irritation but it is not something that is not easily fixed by sharing some information.  

 

I also think -- teacher placement is extremely important.  Research how to get the teacher placement he needs, and act on it.  It doesn't need to be the popular teacher -- it needs to be a teacher who is known to work with kids.  

 

I also think -- keep in mind, that people who have a bad experience are often more likely to share their experiences on the Internet etc, compared to people who have a good experience.  If you can find out what the situation is locally -- that is what matters for you.  

 

I also think -- I did strongly consider pulling my son while he was doing a high amount of remediation.  He liked school, though.  But -- it is REALLY an option.  You could potentially (and here I am thinking of my own situation, I think this would have been very possible for us) pull him for a year, do heavy remediation, then not need to spend as much time on remediation after that -- he may make a lot of progress with a year of emphasis on remediation.  Then moving forward -- have the handwriting to deal with.  That is how it has worked out here, I think.  I did a ton one summer and then after school and on weekends, but because he was young, it did not take so long, because he did not have as much lost ground.  I think there would have been a lot of positives if we had done that.  It isn't what we did -- but I think it could have been a good deal for us.  

 

I personally really do think -- you need to plan to remediate yourself, or with a tutor.  The school is unlikely to spend the time needed for him to start to catch up.  I recommend reading Overcoming Dyslexia and looking at the Barton reading website.  The way it is -- so, my son needs more practice and one-on-one instruction than other children to make the same progress.  So, he needs practice and one-on-one.  There is a correlation between time spent and progress -- not a passage of time like in months, but in hours spent on remediation.  It is not easy to get that through school, but it is possible for a parent to do it at home.  One-on-one instruction is a scarce commodity at school, but parents can have it.  I am not saying to stress out or do long chunks of reading remediation all at once -- I am just saying, you can provide the one-on-one time, and it needs to happen, and your son might get like -- 45 minutes in a group of 3 at school (my son did in early 1st grade).  Well, he made a lot more progress with me, b/c it was one-on-one and exactly at the level he needed, and with direct feedback for him.  And, that is what he needed.  

 

But I really agree with others -- that is not something that is beyond your ability.  I personally think it is easier to do remediation, in many ways, than to advocate at school.  I used to think, if I did home remediation, I would never need to advocate at school -- that has not turned out to be the case, b/c my son has trouble with his handwriting also.  But I am SO glad he is caught up in reading, sees himself as a reader, and has had a lot of good experiences in school.  It makes the handwriting much more manageable in that context.

 

 

[Mom22ns]

I didn't read all the responses, but yes, we homeschool our 2e child. He was in ps preK-5th. They were very helpful in the therapies they provided, however he was also very damaged by the bullying and completely convinced he was stupid by the time we brought him home. I wish we'd done it sooner.

 

Ds's IQ places him as highly gifted. He also comes with a myriad of diagnoses. ASD and dysgraphia have been the primary issues. I could write a book on why homeschooling is the best environment for a 2e child. Giving 2e kids the chance to be as excellent as they can while accommodating their disabilities is something that can be done in the small group or one-on-one environment of the homeschool that public schools just can't do.

 

Gifted programs in most elementary schools are pitiful with little accelerated learning. The kids usually still have to function in the normal classroom 80% of the time and are bored. At the same time, trying to keep up with missed work can be a real issue for 2e kids that can't just whip out the stupid worksheet or test, not because they don't know the answers, but because dyslexia, or dysgraphia or focussing while other things are going on, or whatever their weakness is, holds them back. 

 

Few schools manage to really get accommodations right and even if you are in an amazing place that does, your child still ends up feeling different and in ps different=bad. Ds used a keyboard for most writing assignments starting in second grade. He could type 40wpm when he was 7. The school did a good job at providing that accommodation, but ds felt like using it meant he was lacking. Even today, the college board gave him a word processor as an accommodation on essays and he is hesitant to use it. It still goes back to feeling different.

 

Doing accommodations at home, just feels like doing school. Each person does school their own way and no one looks down on how someone else does it. We find this to be true when we interact with other homeschoolers as well. They are far less judgmental, perhaps because there is a greater spectrum of normal in homeschooling. 

 

I really didn't mean to ramble, but here I am having written a short novella. My answer is, yes, we homeschooled our 2e student. Yes, you should seriously consider doing the same. No, I don't see any downsides to it, really. You do not have to be an educator to be a homeschooler, almost none of us are. You will find the common ground with your ds if you are committed to doing so. It is a choice. You will succeed at homeschooling just as you succeed in parenting, marriage, your job, or anything else you do, by deciding it is important, prioritizing it, figuring out what it will take to make it work and doing that.

 

[Pen]

Yes. HS is academically better for mine than PS was. He had fun socially, but was not learning at either private or public schools tried. HS is less fun. At least here.

 

And having a whole day of regular school and then trying to do the learning part at home was too much school leaving not enough time for life. I would not recommend keeping on with that route unless you both love the afterschooling process.

 

If you think styles and clashes would make PS better to keep your relationship good, then I'd see what could be done about having him in PS with both gifted program and accommodations. 

 

Alternatively, maybe try hs for awhile and see how it compares.  Also, possibly, your school could be flexible and allow a part time attendance so that he could have some benefits of the school and peers and teacher, and then also be able to work with you, but not have it be as grueling as trying to afterschool all the basics.

 

[FairProspects]

One np who tested DS told me to homeschool him.  She explained that son's needs in terms of strengths AND weaknesses could never be properly addressed in the school setting.  

 

When DS was tested, I explained the results to him.  A learning issue is not the result of some moral failing.  Let's be honest here...Yes, gifted is nice but he did nothing to earn it.  DS was born that way.  You can no more control the IQ you are born with than the country or parents you are born to. In short, I don't make hay about IQ with my kids and teach up where they need it and remediate the needs.

 

 

 

This is us too. I have 2 highly 2E learners and one borders on PG. The neuropsych said in a 30 year career, a teacher might see 1 student with his host of learning abilities & challenges and that no one, whether myself or another educator, would know what to do with him without a lot of study and trial and error. I figured the best person to learn how to teach him would be me, since I love him the most. :D

 

You can do this. A motivated mother is a powerful force and you can find community and help here as well.

[Pen]

We're currently investigating the possibility of a 2nd e for our gifted child.  I'm suspecting a LD such as dyslexia or dysgraphia.  Currently we afterschool to remediate what could be a 2nd e.  We do HWT, AAR, keyboarding without tears, teacher homework papers, and read alouds 5 days per week :(.  We will soon likely start AAS.  There is little to no time for gifted fun stuff except weekend trips, fun tablet educational apps, talking and discussions, and the read alouds.

 

Already DS is saying he's not smart, why isn't he in the gifted program at school (we removed him because of his struggles), why doesn't he read/write like others/etc.  These questions are difficult for me to put into words for him (he's early elementary school) and explain.  That's one thing.  But more than that I feel like my remediating is basically all of his schooling.  Because of circumstances we need to wait another few months before testing again for the 2nd e, and I am deeply concerned about getting the PS to teach appropriately/make accommodations.  My concerns stem from knowledge of other students needing accommodations but not my specific LD concerns.  From my limited understanding of dyslexia, if a lot of bad reading habits can be avoided DS will be much better off.  And if there is dysgraphia, most of the handwriting requirements will need to be severely changed.  His whole day is spent reading and writing and if there are LD a lot will need to be accommodated (I think almost all of his assignments).

 

I'm anxious about advocating for accommodations, waiting for them to be implemented, and still him missing out.  The gifted teachers seemed clueless when discussing LD and giftedness.  And HS isn't likely a slam dunk for our family.  It would be possible but DS learns a lot differently than I teach.  I'm not an educator, though I'm very educated.  Our personalities clash, and while I'm looking to improve how we interact, I'm not the cheerful teacher DS has at school.  I did afterschool throughout the summer and it was better because we had all day to get through our stuff, but I still get a lot of complaints about working, etc.

 

I guess if there's any wisdom you can share I'd love to hear it.  Especially discussing 2e with young children (how to explain), decisions to HS from PS with 2e, decisions to stay in PS with 2e, etc. 

 

 

The bold would be my biggest reason to move to just homeschooling. The more that feeling gets strengthened the harder it will be to overcome.

 

 

[displace]

Thank you to all who responded.  I do appreciate it.  It's such a hard decision, especially as we're in limbo right now with regards to results.  DH wants to PS, I'm the one afterschooling and seeing how hard we work and how hard it is to deal with remediation and I feel that HS would have to be easier because we're pretty much already schooling.  If there isn't a LD I can't imagine what we'll continue to do long term.  And as we don't "officially" know what the school will or won't do, it's hard to say where the best place is.  He is fairly neutral about school currently, hating it all last year except a month or so (I think when he was finally caught up), and now he's ambivalent.  He likes lunch and recess.  He'll likely stay behind academically as they're teaching some AR program for reading and we're using AAR (phonics based OG approach) at home.  It will probably be another year or two until he can phonetically read what they're saying he should be reading now in their books.  Plus he's being taught to "guess" words which I thought was not a good idea for bad habit formation. 

 

Parenting is challenging and afterschooling is even more challenging for us, but I'm trying to change how I parent around him and my own organization.  I wonder if some of what he does is a problem he can't control (listening, following instructions, etc) and maybe something else is behind it.  I do worry about his socialization as he's very social and I'm an introvert.  I know these are just excuses and if we do decide to HS we will be able to, but it's something to consider and think about. 

[Heathermomster]

As I have been reading through your various threads, one thing that isn't readily apparent but needs to be expressed is this: Working with VSL, hands-on type learners can be fun, especially in the grammar/logic stage. One thing that I discovered after bringing DS home was how crappy the school's language and math curriculums were. My child came home hating math and science and I totally blame his teacher. DS could not parse a sentence and did not know his times tables. By selecting materials that fed his learning style, he knows his times tables, how to parse a sentence, and how to write coherent paragraphs. Subjects like history are a joy to both of us.

 

Remediation for subjects like reading can be a challenge but we are talkng 45 minutes per day, plus you accommodate the other subjects with technology like typing, audio books, documentries and hands-on learning. I provide every accommodation that my child would normally receive at any four year university. My DS is very sensitive and insightful. As another Mom mentioned, you come alongside your child and guide them. DS is still actively engaged with his school peers and has now made homeschool buddies.

 

ETA: DS sat in a regular private classroom from pre-k to 6th grade. DS maintained an A average with some accommodation. He came home because he was exhausted and I was tired of reteaching every subject every night. I knew more math than his math teacher and that bothered me A LOT. Some teachers also made comments about his typing and calculator accommodations that embarrassed DS and caused him not to want to use the accommodations that he needed. EF is an additional problem for DS and those issues start to blossom in the logic stage. Basically, the school was turning unhelpful and we were tired of insensitive, ignorant teaching. The classroom was just a bad fit all the way around and I am very happy that DS is home.

[prairiewindmomma]

We have two 2E boys who are very different in their strengths and challenges. One of the best things about homeschooling is that you meet the student where they are at, and you can feed their strengths while you remediate what you need to. It can be discouraging to remediate all day...preserving that time to explore interests and stretch their brains in a fun way is so important when other parts of school are more challenging.

[MisH]

OP I very definitely feel your frustrations! I have two boys - DS1 has a formal diagnosis of Gifted with Severe to Profound Dyslexia as well as Dysgraphia. DS 2 has no formal diagnosis, but I am finding that he is very likely more severe than his big brother (but, likely without the Gifted aspect).

Both boys went to PreK and DS1 to PS kindy and Grade 1; DS2 to PS kindy.

I have *known* (gut feeling) since DS1 was very, very young (18ish months) that Dyslexia would be an issue, but EVERY teacher I mentioned this to thought I was NUTS - even AFTER the official diagnosis from the neuropsych! They all kept telling me what a great student my son was and how he was "at or above grade level" for what their expectations were and that "he is doing better than all of his classmates".....BUT - that was ONLY because he is so stinkin smart - he was able to "make do". And, they didn't see him crying every morning before school because he felt stupid (his words, in Kindergarten) :*(

I was also told, repeatedly, that "there's really nothing we need to or could do to help him until or unless he began to fail".  My thought was "Well, I will be damned if I am going to wait for my son to fail before you (school system) do anything". That was when I began to seriously consider homeschooling - something I had ALWAYS thought I could / would NEVER, EVER do! LOL!

 

Due to life circumstances (living in Canada for the past year (grade 1 ds1 and kindy ds2)), I took a year to do alot of research and soul searching - which led to a resounding "YES, this IS absolutely the right decision for us!" .....what I DIDN'T know was how the heck to go about actually DOING that!! :)

 

OP one of the aspects that I have already found to be the most positive in this our first year (first few weeks!!) of homeschooling - there is more time! More time to relax in the morning because there is no "morning rush" (this was one of the worst times of the day in our house!), more time to work on stuff (rather than spending the entire evening doing "school work" (homework or afterschooling), that is stuff that is done during the day!!), more time for free time (for the kids......maybe not so much for mama ;) and best of all more time with your child/ren!

 

Also, I have to say that this forum has been SUCH a blessing!!! I had NO idea how to determine the "right" curriculum (had thought about a couple of different all-in-ones.....) but with research and lots of input from the awesome mama's on here found some really great resources that are, so far, working really, really well!

 

Keep in mind, there is no "right answer"  - it must be YOUR right answer  - for you and for your family!

[displace]

Thank you to everyone for all your replies so far.  I do appreciate it!  I would like to respond to some individually but I'm not able to at the moment.  Thanks :)

[Lecka]

I am coming back to your second response.

 

Okay, those are some problems.  It is not a good situation.  It needs to be better -- if you can get it better, that is good.  If it is going to continue for a year or two -- that is just too long.  That is too long to be in a bad situation.

 

Second, right now you are working with your son after he has already had a stressful day at school.  He is tired.  He is not at his best.  I know the difference between doing remediation after school and doing it in the summer.  It is like night and day.  In the summer there is more time, there is no school and no school stress, there is plenty of time for swimming and hanging out.  

 

So I do think -- don't assume that your after-school situation, is what your home-school situation would be.  It would very possibly be more like our summer situation.  Much, much more doable and easy-going.  

 

My son was also getting pulled by the reading specialist, so I did not have a situation where he was getting the usual school instruction.  At his school you got pulled if you were in the bottom 3 in your class, and he was in that group, so while I was working with him after school, and he was seeing the reading specialist with the bottom 3 kids from all the 1st grade classrooms (so 9 kids I guess).  He was doing pretty appropriate things -- it was just going to be so slow that he would take a long, long time to catch up, and I wanted for him to catch up and get out of pull out.  But pull out here does not get kids to catch up.  It is appropriate, though, it is not telling kids to guess.

 

My son's school also has a lot of inclusion students and a lot of kids with accommodations, and they are told from Kindergarten that this is okay.  When they can, they make things open to all kids, so that the kids using accommodations don't stick out as "there is the kid with the accommodation."  I think his school has a good school culture for this, though.  

 

But for him saying he doesn't feel smart ----- okay, that means he feels stupid.  That means he is sitting in class and doesn't know what is going on ----- that is a bad, bad feeling, it is not okay for him to sit in school like this.  

 

My son was sitting in the reading specialist room and my understanding is that he had a good experience, she gave him tootsie rolls, he felt like he was doing a good job.  They were just not covering a lot of ground -- I was able to cover much more at home.  

 

My son has had bad experiences with writing too slowly -- and it is really something where it needs to be fixed, or it goes downhill.  I think I have kept things in a good place -- and of course he and his teachers -- it takes all of us I think.  But staying in a bad place is not okay -- kids get miserable and then they will keep thinking they are stupid and then stupider.  

 

I read that at first like "why am I not in the gifted program" but when I saw it re-quoted it seemed more like an "am I stupid?" kind of thing.  If he has thought he was smart and now he thinks he is stupid -- that is just not good.  

 

I don't think my son ever has thought much about if he is smart or stupid.  He used to think he was bad at reading, but now he thinks he is good at reading.  He just has not seemed to generalize that way.  But -- your son is!  So I think something has got to change, so he doesn't feel like that.  I don't think the change has to be home school, but it is a very strong option, and the school option is not entirely in your control.  The other thing about school -- you get a new teacher every year, and will have to re-hash things every year, and every year until he is in a good confident place -- feel like "I hope this teacher is one who does good with him."  That is why I said teacher placement is so important.  I also agree -- my son is not in a situation where the overall level of school is not good.  He is engaged in school and in the curriculum, it is stuff that is supposed to be interesting to his age -- and he fits with it, it is interesting to him.  My son is smart, I am sure he is above average, but he does not have gifted issues that effect him in school.

 

So -- a lot of stuff in school is listening and talking -- and he has always fit in very well with that.  He listens great and talks great.  He is interested, it is on his level.  If your son is also advanced such that this would not be the case -- that is an additional issue.  For my son I think he could feel good about himself from talking in class and understanding in class, and then maybe with going to the reading specialist it was not so in his face that he was doing something different in reading.  All the kids changed rooms for reading groups -- it was not like only he and 2 other kids left the room.  Probably half the kids left, and then other kids would come into the room to have their reading group in the room with his classroom teacher.  

[displace]

 

As for homeschooling in particular, from my perspective, if the school is already demoralizing him, and you are getting bad vibes about how the school will react to future learning with a 2e kid, then homeschooling would definitely seem the better option....but, I would HIGHLY recommend seeing what options you have for outsourcing certain areas of learning, such as maybe a local homeschooling group that does science classes or has a history club, etc.  And contact local community resources.  

 

Thank you for your story, perspective of you HS your kids, and advice.  It motivated me to look into local HS groups and ask if there are any 2e kids around here.  I've already found 2.  :)   

[displace]

 

 

Two people influenced our decision to homeschool.  One was the ps special ed teacher.  She said that son would not receive any services until he was academically two years behind (at that point he was not behind the basic guidelines at all but something was clearly wrong).  Additionally, she said that the way schools taught, including special ed programs, simply did not match a certain segment of children.  She felt that services the school had to offer still would not meet son's needs.  Second was the educational psychologist who evaluated older son.  She said that we could try various programs (she mentioned many used for dyslexics) or alternatively, she suggested  we just wait and let son's "parts all catch up with each other".  

 

 

One day shortly after we started homeschooling, we went out to lunch mid day.  Son did not want anyone to know we were homeschoolers.  It finally came out that he thought we were homeschooling because he had basically *failed* at regular school.  Now, he was totally on board with homeschooling and hugely relieved, but still in his mind he had the notion that we had to resort to it because there was something wrong with him.  OK< so some people might say there is something wrong with him.  But I decided to present it to him as a continuum.  If you look at a continuum of the color red fading into white, you see it passes through many stages or phases.  In a large portion of the continuum  the color is neither red nor white, but they are still valid and interesting colors.   We talked about schools being set up in such a way that they had to teach as many kids as possible and they simply didn't have the resources to meet the needs of all the different shades of learners in the class room.  

 

Also, I read portions of the book The Gift of Dyslexia to my son.  I read that book and thought the guy sounded really out there.  My kids listened to me read it and said, "That is exactly what my mind is like!"

 

Good luck with whatever you decide!

 

Thank you very much for your story.  Your illustration to your son about the color continuum is perfect and I may use it, if that's ok with you!  These are all great points and I appreciate it.  Plus I have a book rec if he's diagnosed with dyslexia. 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

Thank you for your story, perspective of you HS your kids, and advice.  It motivated me to look into local HS groups and ask if there are any 2e kids around here.  I've already found 2.  :)   

:hurray:

[displace]

On my phone so being fast. One, you're underestimating your ability to do this. Two, you're underestimating the help we can give you (and the psych!) to be confident and eliminate some of that conflict. We got our peace and you can too. You can do it. :)

 

Yes, well if we decide to HS (convincing DH will be the most difficult part of that equation I think), I will likely be here all the time asking how to do XYZ.  :) 

 

[displace]

 

 

Homeschooling is more akin to parenting than it is teaching.  

Have you figured out how to parent this kid yet?  If so, you can probably manage homeschooling, too.   :)

 

Ha!  I'm actually still working on it  :)

[displace]

Yes - that was our initial reason to home educate.  Calvin was very bright but had delayed motor skills.  The school did some work with him on his handwriting, but what he really needed was time.  By home educating, I was able to take the pressure off the motor skills whilst continuing to work on them steadily.  At the same, time, C was able to progress at his own rate, working mostly orally.  

 

 

 

Yes, I actually feel like I have to ignore the grades anyway because they are not my standards are do not seem applicable to us anyway.  I feel like I'm doing my own thing with DS.

 

[displace]

If you want to continue working with the school, I'd recommend requesting that the school evaluate him as soon as possible and that you get a private evaluation as well for additional information. Once/if  there is an official diagnosis, the school should be much more forthcoming about what they can and cannot do to accommodate him and you will have a much better idea of how to advocate for him in that setting. You will also have a clearer idea of what your goals would be, should you choose to hs or continue in ps. Information is power.

 

Yes, we have already requested testing.  I think they may refuse since he's not at a low enough level behind.  But he's obviously struggling.  I'm seeking private testing but the psych recommended waiting a few more months to allow DS to age a bit since he's so young.

[displace]

My son is not gifted, so that is not a factor.  He is a smart kid, but the school curriculum is very appropriate for him as far as his interests and his level.    

 

I have had some good luck with advocating for him in school, and then some times have been rougher.  

 

 

 

You have a lot of excellent points.  I think in general, if we can get good services at school (qualified teachers, quantity needed), plus teachers that understand and will/are able to accommodate, plus DS likes school, plus gifted services, I will be happy doing extra remediation at home.

 

If I'm the one doing the majority of the remediation (myself or outsourced), they are not really accommodating, DS doesn't like school, etc, then I have issues keeping him in PS, at least for the moment.

 

I wish there weren't so many variables!

 

Thank you also for your book rec. 

[displace]

I could write a book on why homeschooling is the best environment for a 2e child. Giving 2e kids the chance to be as excellent as they can while accommodating their disabilities is something that can be done in the small group or one-on-one environment of the homeschool that public schools just can't do.

 

Gifted programs in most elementary schools are pitiful with little accelerated learning. The kids usually still have to function in the normal classroom 80% of the time and are bored. At the same time, trying to keep up with missed work can be a real issue for 2e kids that can't just whip out the stupid worksheet or test, not because they don't know the answers, but because dyslexia, or dysgraphia or focussing while other things are going on, or whatever their weakness is, holds them back. 

 

Few schools manage to really get accommodations right and even if you are in an amazing place that does, your child still ends up feeling different and in ps different=bad.

 

You have a lot of excellent points.

1) you should write a book

2) I think it's unrealistic to assume teachers can accommodate every student's needs (students' needs?)

3) his gifted teacher kept talking about how when DS was "ready" he could rejoin the program.  I told her (after already explaining for 5-10 min about my concern of a LD) that he may "never" be able to do her papers that way, etc.  And that because he doesn't write well doesn't mean he doesn't understand concepts.

4) ITA with differences in most places.  I'm not sure quite about the culture at our school right now.  I do know they value academics, and there doesn't seem to be bullying on the surface, but until you encounter it most people may think that about their suburbian PS. 

[displace]

 

And having a whole day of regular school and then trying to do the learning part at home was too much school leaving not enough time for life. I would not recommend keeping on with that route unless you both love the afterschooling process.

 

 

 

This is our biggest problem. 

[displace]

As I have been reading through your various threads, one thing that isn't readily apparent but needs to be expressed is this: Working with VSL, hands-on type learners can be fun, especially in the grammar/logic stage.

 

VSL?

[displace]

 

 

Second, right now you are working with your son after he has already had a stressful day at school.  He is tired.  He is not at his best.  I know the difference between doing remediation after school and doing it in the summer.  It is like night and day.  

 

 

My son's school also has a lot of inclusion students and a lot of kids with accommodations, and they are told from Kindergarten that this is okay.  When they can, they make things open to all kids, so that the kids using accommodations don't stick out as "there is the kid with the accommodation."  I think his school has a good school culture for this, though.  

 

But for him saying he doesn't feel smart ----- okay, that means he feels stupid.  That means he is sitting in class and doesn't know what is going on ----- that is a bad, bad feeling, it is not okay for him to sit in school like this.  

 

 

 

A lot more good points.  This is my biggest issue.  We have to remediate after school.  If we wait too long it's even worse (mood-wise).  I'm already needing to drop some things because we can't do it all.  I can't teach reading, writing, do homework every day.  I try to do work on weekends because we have all day, not working during 2 days during the week.  But that means he rarely has a whole day totally off.  When we have company we make those days no-homework days.  It's sad IMO :(

 

There is a good culture of acceptance I think, but IDK everything that happens there.

 

As for him not feeling smart, he also understands his writing is different (I tell him because his brain is too fast for his hands to keep up with him), but the gifted pull out was for reading and he questions why he was pulled from that because of reading if his writing is the problem?  I'm not sure about a dyslexia diagnosis honestly, but I imagine there has to be dysgraphia or something affecting his writing.  So I tried to explain the best I could, that the gifted teacher only taught a specific learner and we're all special and his brain works so uniquely... I didn't have a great answer.  And I still don't.  I need to find a better way to explain.  I do like the color gradient explanation though from PP!

 

I agree about him being in class wondering at this age and comparing himself to others.  We're all unique and different and we all work differently, I honestly believe that.  That doesn't mean a lot of kids can't learn with PS curriculum X in a classroom.  But maybe some can't, or need a different curriculum, or a different teacher, or school, or schooling system in place. 

 

 

[Heathermomster]

VSL?

http://www.visual-learners.com/

http://www.time4learning.com/visual-spatial-learners.shtml

[Pen]

A lot more good points.  This is my biggest issue.  We have to remediate after school.  If we wait too long it's even worse (mood-wise).  I'm already needing to drop some things because we can't do it all.  I can't teach reading, writing, do homework every day.  I try to do work on weekends because we have all day, not working during 2 days during the week.  But that means he rarely has a whole day totally off.  When we have company we make those days no-homework days.  It's sad IMO :(

 

There is a good culture of acceptance I think, but IDK everything that happens there.

 

As for him not feeling smart, he also understands his writing is different (I tell him because his brain is too fast for his hands to keep up with him), but the gifted pull out was for reading and he questions why he was pulled from that because of reading if his writing is the problem?  I'm not sure about a dyslexia diagnosis honestly, but I imagine there has to be dysgraphia or something affecting his writing.  So I tried to explain the best I could, that the gifted teacher only taught a specific learner and we're all special and his brain works so uniquely... I didn't have a great answer.  And I still don't.  I need to find a better way to explain.  I do like the color gradient explanation though from PP!

 

I agree about him being in class wondering at this age and comparing himself to others.  We're all unique and different and we all work differently, I honestly believe that.  That doesn't mean a lot of kids can't learn with PS curriculum X in a classroom.  But maybe some can't, or need a different curriculum, or a different teacher, or school, or schooling system in place. 

 

It sounds like you'd like him to be able to be at the school.

 

But that it can only work if he gets help and teaching there that he is not getting. 

 

I'd say give yourself a deadline not too far in future, and see what you can manage advocating with school for him by that date.  Maybe let them know that you have that as a deadline. If successful, and he gets the help he needs, good he can stay in school. If not successful with the advocating to get him what he needs to be successful there without lots of afterschool work, switch to homeschooling.

[Lecka]

You need to look into an OT eval.  You can request one in writing from school.  You may need a private eval also.  It will depend on how helpful the school OT is.  

 

It is hard to qualify for OT at school, because the scores have to be so low, or there has to be another qualifying condition.  It is not like speech therapy.  Speech therapy is a primary qualifying condition, but OT is not on that list.  

 

I have heard of schools where it is easy to have the OT observe kids in class and make recommendations to the teacher.  Our school is not like that.  If kids qualify for services, and there is a need to observe them in class, then they will do it.  They won't just do it for someone b/c it would be helpful.  But I also think they are much more helpful at my son's school than at some others.  It is just -- the OT at my son's school works at 5 schools around town, and she is at his school for about 1 morning and 2 afternoons a week -- she does not have time.  

 

If you get a different eval that would include OT (like neuropsych?) then you could do that instead, and that might be a better option.  But OT evals are good for handwriting, in general.  

 

If he is young, make sure you write that he is frustrated and having trouble completing his work.  You can't just be like "I wish his handwriting was a little neater," that is not going to be very compelling to anyone at school.  

 

I think you should request the OT eval in writing, like today, like this afternoon when you pick him up from school.  Or just request an eval including OT -- or whatever.  I don't know -- I just know -- it sounds like you need an OT eval.  

 

Where I am -- you can write a note with the date, say you are requesting an eval including OT for your son, he is frustrated and having trouble completing his work, you believe his handwriting is a concern and impacting him emotionally.  Then whatever other concern.  

 

When I have filled out forms (this may just be me) -- it is taken more seriously if you can say there is a secondary problem.  If he just has messy handwriting -- that is "so what."  If he is having trouble completing his work in a reasonable time, if he is feeling frustration, if he is starting to feel sad or to act out in his behavior, all those will make it be taken more seriously.  But -- I am not sure that is the best thing -- I would say to do it for sure if you lived in my same school district, but I don't know if it is good in general.  

 

If you google for "template to write a letter requesting an evaluation" or things like that -- you can find a sample letter.  It does not have to be a big deal.  (I thought this was a big deal, and then realized, it is not a big deal, it is routine.)