Foreign-language "real" school + English homeschool?

[PolandHS]

I would love to know -- Has anyone living abroad enrolled their children in a foreign-language school and homeschooled in English, simultaneously? How did it go? How old were your children? How did it affect them emotionally and academically? Would you recommend it, and if so, with what caveats?

 

I ask because are planning a move to Poland in spring 2015, when our oldest will be five and a half. I think he'll be reading English at a decent beginner's level by then (we're working through Ordinary Parents' Guide now with fast progress). My husband is Polish but we speak English at home, since I can only hobble along in Polish.

 

My instincts are competing! Here's what my rational instincts say: our goal is for the whole family to become bilingual after a few years in Poland. The best way to accomplish this seems to be enrolling our oldest in a Polish private kindergarten (or the equivalent of one grade behind his US grade) with the expectation that he will undergo Polish standardized testing each year. Homeschooling is legal in Poland and I certainly could homeschool full time in English, but we don't want to create a Little America in our home and rob our kids of the immersion process that would make them bilingual for life. The school day in Poland only goes until about lunchtime anyway, so we'll still have long afternoons together and can study English reading/lit, writing, and American history/geography at home. He's extremely happy in classroom settings with "real" teachers (homeschool co-op, Sunday school, choir), academically gifted, and socially mature. He'll be fine.

 

....Aaaand, here's what my emotional instincts say: I love having my child at home. Love, love, love it. I want to teach him every subject until my own expertise runs dry, and I want control over his environment. I'll miss him when he leaves even though his 3-year-old sister will be at home. What if he gets too overwhelmed or embarassed to function well, or we're expecting so much of him that we'll defeat our goals and wish we'd just homeschooled in English? How will I know if he's flourishing?

 

If you've been there and can offer any comments, I'd be interested to hear them! Thanks!

[Rosie_0801]

If it all goes to pot, you can pull him out. 

 

It sounds like a good experience to me. (Not that I have any experience at all.) At that age, a half day of public school and an afternoon of pottering at home sounds perfect.

[Amira]

If your top priority is his learning Polish, then sending him to school is almost certainly the best way to achieve that goal. Since he'd only be gone in the morning, it sounds like a good solution especially since, as Rosie points out, you wouldn't be committing to it forever if it doesn't work out.

 

Do you know if or how much homework the school would require? Is the school used to non-Polish-speaking children attending? Schools in the US are often equipped to help children learn English and that makes a huge difference, but I suspect Poland may not have quite as much support. Are the students comfortable helping and playing with a non-Polish speaker? Sometimes it can be hard to overcome that language barrier, especially without support from the school.

 

We have chosen not to send our children to local schools (I homescholed my oldest two in Kyrgyzstan at that age, and my youngest is in a bilingual school here in Mexico), but if we had been planning on staying in either of those countries for a long time, I would have been much more interested in having them go to local schools to learn Russian or Spanish. The main reason I didn't choose that option was that I wanted to make sure they had a solid foundation with reading and writing English. Even now I'm running into trouble with my 6yo as he tries to read Spanish for his school homework and continues to improve with his English reading at home. Since we're leaving Mexico and Spanish in a year and going on to Arabic, I don't have much motivation to make sure he learns Spanish well. So my situation is very different from yours.

 

Another huge benefit to going to school is the social interaction. It can be hard to make friends when you move overseas and having your son go to a local school would likely make a huge difference (for you too, possibly). My son has loved having so many Mexican friends, but his teacher last year was wonderful in encouraging the other children to play with him and that made all the difference. My son has probably learned more Spanish during recess that in his daily Spanish classes. :)

[PolandHS]

These are helpful responses. Thanks.

 

Amira - My DH is going to check out the school on his next trip to Warsaw and ask those very questions. I'm hopeful he'll have a positive experience since a friend there recommended this school specifically for our family, and it's a private school with small class sizes. It's in the capital city, is homeschooling-friendly (offers a partnership/umbrella program for Polish HSers,) and it's somewhat religiously diverse (unusal for Poland). So I'm guessing there's some flexibility and user-friendliness there that will benefit our unorthodox situation. We've previously lived in eastern Europe (Lithuania -- still not as far east as Kyrgyzstan!) and I had a friend who sent her children to the local public school after a year of failed homeschooling. Lithuania is quite a bit less "user-friendly" and diverse in general, yet the school made room for her children and even gave her a job teaching English part-time so she could still be on the premises and tutor them in English skills during their normal school hours. That would be my dream, I think, but we're taking it slowly. I agree that socialization is a huge factor, for our whole family, and I also expect DS to learn more Polish from his interaction with friends than he does in class. :)

[PolandHS]

Yep -- I'm a La Leche League leader, actually, so nurturing philosophy will be a huge factor for me. We'll definitely spend some time talking with teachers and observing classrooms before we decide.

 

If it makes you feel better, Polish children love to throw food and nobody really cares. ;)

[SarahW]

Yes, I would send my kid to the local school. It is an EXCELLENT option. With free movement in the EU, many schools now have classes for foreign language learners. Finding one would be helpful.

 

I understand how hard it is to keep up a (rather) obscure foreign language in America. It's HARD. Nonetheless, what is your dh's feelings about his kid not speaking his native language?

 

And if you have an English-centric home here, you will have an English-centric home there. I know. You need to plan that when you are there every day will include outside activities that will expose both you and your child to Polish. School is one part of that.

 

What you need to do NOW.

 

1) Learn Polish with your kid. Duolingo is launching Polish, or pick another program. Do it with your kid, then over dinner discuss what you learned with dad. You don't need to be fluent before you go, but this will help your kid not get overwhelmed and shut down whenever someone speaks "those stupid words I don't know!" when you get there.

 

2) Learn about bilingualism. Two excellent books I've read recently:

 

The Bilingual Edge. This book goes through what the research actually says about bilingualism, and debunks all the myths and misinformation. Offers some tips about how to achieve bilingualism.

 

7 Steps to Raising a Bilingual Child. This book is very practical, with lots of great ideas of what you can do with your child to achieve bilingualism.

 

You need to know not just about how your child can learn Polish, but how he can continue to learn English in a foreign country. Both of these books will help guide you, and help you tune out misinformation. There's a LOT of misinformation out there about bilingualism! I've heard bad advice from teachers and family members and everyone in between. I wish I had read these books years ago! Ah well, research shows that not all is lost.

 

Re: culture - your DH should understand what cultural expectations are present. Discuss how your family should/will respond to them. The culture will be everywhere though, not just in school. Though one thing I did notice about Europe is that many believe school ends at the school doors. It's not like school takes over life with PTA and fundraising and etc. etc. here. You can send your kid to school, and do your own thing at home. Kids are pretty flexible, and the change in location should be enough to indicate the shift in expectations.

[PolandHS]

Thanks for this, SarahW! I'm doing all of those things right now and have been for years, so it's good to have it confirmed by your suggestions.

 

Yep, those are great books -- I read them both while pregnant and for the first year of our son's life I insisted on OPOL. But my husband always felt it was artificial for him to speak Polish to our son since he's lived in the US longer than in Poland. His emotional language is English and he felt seriously detached from our son in Polish. So we decided to stop OPOL. (At that time we were living in Lithuania and had Ukranian-speaking babysitters, close proximity to Polish grandparents, etc., so our baby still had a lot of Polish interaction.)

 

BUT, we made that decision knowing that we would move to Poland before too long and that we would immerse when we did so. That's always been our goal. I want to be fluent, too, and worked with a private tutor for awhile, so my pronunciation and reading skills are good. I can teach the basics well. Between ages 1.5 and 4.5 (i.e., right now) we've studied Polish together as a formal "subject" and  spend min. an hour a day on it, between my Rosetta Stone (which my son can often participate in), Polish stories and songs, flaschards, games, and catechism (we have the children's version of Westminster Catechism translated to Polish and catechize in both languages). Polish culture is a big part of our life (food, music, traditions) and I teach my son EXCLUSIVELY Polish handwriting. So we're on our way. Immersion will be most effective but I'm doing serious prep work.

[PolandHS]

....Just following up to say that I ordered the bilingualism books from the library to read through all those suggestions again. Thank you so much for reminding me of them. :)

 

Sigh. I am fairly happy with what we're doing to prep for a Polish environment, but I'm concerned about the transition to a traditional-school lifestyle. By that I mean sibling separation, loss of flexibility (esp. for travel, which we'd hoped to do tons of), the danger of overwhelming DS with too much schoolwork in either language, etc. I was homeschooled and loved it, so all of this is unappealing to me.

 

Not to mention the sense of loss I'll feel about not being his full-time teacher. :(

 

Any suggestions for dealing with these things?

[SarahW]

Ah, from your OP I didn't get that he was already familiar with Polish, so it wasn't that your main concern was to drop him into a classroom "cold,"

 

I'm not sure what the classroom situation is like in Poland, how many hours a day? how much vacation? what are the attendance rules?

 

I know for Dutch schools they're very laid back at the lower levels. Eh, your kid is tired today, you don't have to bring him back after lunch, and the like. That flexibility helps. It would also help to find a play-based school, I think. His school time would largely consist of playing with pricey manipulatives and talking to other kids, and then doing more at home with you would be less overwhelming.

 

I brought up the bilingual books because they do such a good job explaining that the human brain is fully capable, and sometimes even thrives, on learning multiple languages, even learning multiple languages at the same time. Americans seem to be of the mind that you can only learn one language at a time, including the first language, and as they usually never get past an intro to one language (or never really learn their first language) the result is monolingualism. So I don't think you should worry about him learning to read in both English and Polish. Of course, reevaluate that as necessary.

 

As for emotional/family bonds, well, that's very personal. Are you moving to your DH's hometown, by any chance? When my kid was in Dutch school he was in a class with his cousin, down the road from a great-grandmother (who we often ate lunch with) and most of the people knew my DH's family for generations and/or were relatives of some sort. In that sort of situation, school was just a part of the larger community/family. Just something to consider.

 

And I'm not clear, are you moving to Poland permanently? Putting him in school for K doesn't mean you can't homeschool-only after a year of language immersion in school, right?

[PolandHS]

Thanks for the encouragement about learning to read in both languages simultaneously. Do you have any thoughts about grade level? My instinct is to place him in one grade level lower than his American grade. (This year we're doing K, so next year would be 1st.) I imagine putting him in whichever Polish class is beginning phonics. Does that make sense?

 

DH thinks the school day will end around lunchtime but we'll have to ask to be sure. Vacation should be pretty liberal but I don't have details yet. I think some of my worries are coming from a lack of details. DH will visit next week, and if he's impressed at that point I'll probably get in touch with them myself. Oooor we start looking for another school.

 

You're not clear on whether it's a permanent move because we're not either. :) We're definitely open to a permanent move -- planning to give ourselves a 3-year trial period, then reevaluate based on DH's job and other factors. We'd prefer to raise our children in Poland and spend 1-2 months out of the year in the US.

 

Yep, we'll be in DH's hometown. Lots of family and friends around, many of whom DS has spent extended time with and knows very well. It's a perfect setup for becoming bilingual.

[yinanyinu]

We did what you are considering with both DC, but in Chinese, and were happy with our decision. DC just entered kindergarten at the appropriate age for local children and quickly picked up what was necessary. No language-related transition problems. We have very close friends who did this with their children, the elder started in grade 1 and the younger in JK. By the end of the year, all four children were easily conversing with their classmates.

 

DS had some fear and anxiety during K year, but they were due to moving, and leaving his old friends behind, rather than the language but since it was kindergarten, I kept him home for half the day, even though it was a full-day program and it worked out well. In retrospect, I wonder if pulling him out prevented him from "fitting in" with his new classmates, but at the time, like you, I just wanted that time with him. Our friends' DC was shy at the start and for some time did not talk in class, and the teachers did not know how to deal with that. We needed a tutor to help with the homework because it was beyond my language skills, but it looks like that won't be a problem for you.

 

I think at the earlier ages, kids can jump right in and immerse themselves without too many problems. At the older grades, it might be necessary to have them start at a lower grade because there is a lot of academic learning that may have already happened in the host language which incoming DC would not yet know.

 

Good luck.

[PolandHS]

That's really helpful/encouraging -- thanks.

 

I've thought about the issue of putting my DS one grade level below his American grade from a few different angles. You had great thoughts about that. Honestly, I still don't understand the Polish grade system (grade 0? what is that?!) and my main idea is that our DS will enter whichever class is beginning phonics. Not baby phonics, but phonics done with the goal of beginning reading that year. I agree with you about immersion being easier at the earlier ages. My main concern is that he learns to read in Polish from the ground up without added frustration of feeling behind his peers who are already reading Polish. Do you think there would be advantages to putting him in a higher grade?

 

By JK, do you mean junior kindergarten? I'll have a 3-year-old at the time of our move, too, and she is very different from DS (who has been hiding from me whenever I come to pick him up from social/classroom situations since age 1). With her temperament I can't imagine putting her in any kind of formal class where I wasn't nearby. She could do maybe an hour a day. I'm thinking a small dose of immersion every day would be better than two big doses a week?

[yinanyinu]

Wouldn't 5.5 be around grade 1? That is usually when children start learning to read. If so, no problems. I think the difficulties with starting immersion without any previous language background (which is my anecdotal experience) only starts around grade 3 and higher. Even in grade 2, the children are still just shoring up their reading skills, so a student completely new to the language wouldn't be very far behind. Also, be aware that there may be cut-off dates for grade placement like in the US. DS has a spring birthday, so even though he was ready for grade 1, since he was not yet 6, he was kept an extra year in K.

 

 

You know your son best, whether he should be in a higher/lower grade relative to his age; I think at 5.5, it will all work out. You won't go wrong either way. A good teacher will be able to help a struggling child, and also recognise a child who is bored and suggest he move into a higher grade, or else give him enrichment.

[PolandHS]

Thanks, yinayinu, so much for the encouragement!

 

Yes, I think age 5.5 will correspond to the grade that teaches beginning reading, since Poland's compulsory age is now 5. Should be perfect for our situation.

 

Today my husband had lunch with a board member of the private school we're considering (a good friend of ours), and right now it SEEMS like  the school will:

(a) offer me a part-time position teaching English in some capacity -- hopefully that will cut down our home-study hours, and boost my language learning/social opportunities at the same

( b ) allow us to build the program we want -- DS can take only Polish language classes and extra currics if we want, or enroll as a full-time student, for any number of hours per day/week we choose

 

I'm trying not to get too excited, but so far this is shaping up really well!

[Joan in GE]

We tried this - the OP original question - local school plus English studies at home....I think it greatly depends on the child and the environment at the school - eg how receptive they are towards foreigners and how foreign your child looks....

 

For one of our dc it basically worked and for the other it basically didn't and we're still suffering the consequences today.

 

If I had to do it over again with the one, I wouldn't have put so much time in for the English at home and would have been more sensitive to the social situation....but then we all still speak English at home, unlike other families where the children start switching to the local language, so perhaps we're unique...

[PolandHS]

Just curious, if you're willing to share -- What were the warning signs/red flags you noticed? At what point did you become nervous that your child wasn't flourishing?

[Joan in GE]

Just curious, if you're willing to share -- What were the warning signs/red flags you noticed? At what point did you become nervous that your child wasn't flourishing?

 

The first two years we thought things were going well with the exception of having to intervene two months into the first year because the teacher wasn't stopping the kids from laughing about ds's accent...Ds got awards and his grades weren't bad coming from an English speaking home...

 

the following year was not going so well but we didn't know exactly what the problem was and the teacher had an absolutely horrible reputation so we thought things would get better the next year....I can't say they got worse but they didn't get better....Dh was not interested in pulling him out though....The following year was jr hi...where everyone is adjusting...the next year was worse so then dh pulled him out the following year. But it was really two late - the damage was done..

 

Generally it took at least 2 years or more for ds to actually divulge what he had been doing...We had a parent teacher conference with the 'horrible' teacher but she never elaborated on what ds was doing exactly....

 

Basically that year he decided to be bad to get 'friends'...but I didn't find out for years about that decision...

 

There were other circumstances which are too private to go into which also made his environment not so supportive...hopefully your situation is different...

[PolandHS]

Thanks for elaborating. I'm really sorry about your family's negative experiences. :(