My accountant just scared me.

[Ginevra]

Doh! I was meeting with our company accountant (about business), but also asked him a few questions about FAFSA. I've said on here before that I think FAFSA will be tricky for us, due to our complicated financial life. So, anyway, he said, "here's what I recommend you do with the FAFSA: tear it up into little tiny pieces."

 

Basically, he said that our income will definitely not indicate need, which I knew, but when I said I know I would still need it to claim merit money, he agreed that that was true, but that I may find this is not the best way to go about it. (Sorry for the run-on.) then he said he felt the best strategy was to go CC for at least one year. He said transfer scholarships are often better anyway, and you have also already gotten your first portion at a bargain. Not to mention, he advises that it helps the student "ease in" to college life if they start at CC.

 

Uh. This is exactly what I USED TO think! This was originally what I thought we would guide dd towards doing, but I changed my mind for these reasons:

 

1) dd has said before she thinks all her honors, NHS, etc. would have been essentially a waste if she was "just" going to CC. Out of her close friends, she is the only one taking math, fourth-year language, and AP lit this year, because she wants to have the healthy resume. (Wait - I lie. There is one girl she hangs with who is on an ambitious college track.) she just told me "so-and-so dropped math, science and an AP, because she expects to get a sports scholarship."

 

2) I attend the CC myself, so I know it is true that there are many young folks there who will not be moving on to a 4-yr school. Also, generally speaking, there truly ARE more "low-shooters" there in her age group, and that's not the influence I want her around.

 

3) I do want her to have the "complete" experience of college. I did not get this and I really am sorry I didn't.

 

So, I don't know. He might be right. He might be wrong. He kinda terrified me, and, as you can tell by my other posts, I was nervous to begin with.

[FaithManor]

It's a really tough call. Cal system regulates CC's quite well so credits are transferable. Michigan does not. If my sons were to go to the closest CC to us, it would be money thrown down a whole. They could get an AA even and end up at any number of four institutions square one as freshmen. Quality varies so widely in MICH that it's a gamble.

 

Cast a wide net and see what pops up for merit.It might not be awful. As for FASFA, we won't get a dime of need based aid, but the schools require us to fill it out or they won't even award merit. They want to see the parent financial picture no matter what. GRRR...we have a broken system, but not much we can do about it either.

 

We ar counting on merit money from both the school and some private sources such as 4H and look at schools that allowe that to be stacked. But we also have to look at the costs of sophomore year due to the fact that a lot of private scholarships are a one time only thing. It's a crazy maker!

 

Small, guaranteed student loans are likely a part of the financial situation for all of our guys. But these are super low interest and decent repayment terms so we are okay with that. 

[maize]

Where is he getting his information from? The fact that he is an accountant does not mean he is an expert on college financing etc.. His comment about transfer scholarships being better goes against everything I have heard in the past--my understanding has been that there are more scholarships available to freshmen than to transfer students at most schools. At selective schools, admission as a transfer student may be more competitive than admission as a freshman.

 

I understand why you discussed the FAFSA with your accountant, but personally I would take his college advice with a grain of salt unless you have reason to believe he has expertise in this area :)

 

I am thinking that filling out the FAFSA to claim merit aid would be primarily a formality. The FAFSA itself is not complicated (I just filled it out for myself yesterday); if I were in your shoes I would make a best guess at the tax info needed to fill it out in a timely manner, then when your taxes are finalized go back and amend it. I would not stress too much over exact numbers the first time around, particularly since you are not counting on income based aid awards that could change if your numbers are off.

[Barbara H]

If you haven't run a net price calculator that's where you should start. http://netpricecalculator.collegeboard.org/

 

Your accountant may know a great deal about college financing, but the reality is that most accountants don't. While he may understand your financial picture that doesn't mean he understands your daughter's academic profile or how widely costs may vary from one institution to the next. What college route is affordable is a really big question that doesn't have one answer. It depends on a number of factors. Transfer scholarships are the best financial path for some students, but again that varies a great deal based on what state you live in and on your student's academic profile and goals.

[G5052]

The oldest one (12th grade) is headed towards the local CC.  Maybe something will fall from the sky to change that, but I don't think so.  He missed the National Merit cut-off by two points, and has multiple APs, SAT IIs, and dual enrollment classes. There's a solid honors program there that helps motivated students rise above those who aren't there to learn.  And he wants to continue his local volunteer work and teaching/taking martial arts. The martial arts really weren't something I had taken into account, but we just got back from a national-level event where he did very, very well, and I know now that going somewhere without that would literally break his heart.  I've never seen him so happy as when he was on the mat this last weekend. With no clear major and path forward right now, I really don't want to get into loans yet either. Our long-term finances are uncertain, and I would hate to commit to something we can't finish. This is a good CC with transfer agreements with solid schools, both public and private.  Where they don't offer the class, you can transfer it in from the neighboring CC in the next county which has an extensive online component that is very well-run.

 

It depends on the college, but at the 4-year school we had been thinking of, the freshman-level classes are largely taught by TA's and tend to be impersonal.  Some of the programs don't even have you taking classes from full-time professors until your junior year, and the departmental scholarships largely all start at that level and are open for both transfers and people advancing from within.

 

So yes, academically-oriented kids sometimes belong at the CC. Some of my friends think we're crazy, but I don't think that "away" is the right answer for everyone either.

 

And the transfer scholarship comment?  That's completely contrary to what I've been told. There's more aid for freshmen, but there's certainly some available for transfers.  Not scads of it though.

 

The merit scholarships at the schools we were looking at all required the FAFSA, but they said it was so they'd know whether to do need-based or merit.  Maybe there's more to it than that behind the scenes.  No FAFSA, no scholarship consideration at those schools (even the CC), period.  So I'm resigned to it at this point.

[creekland]

Your reasoning is FAR better than his once you explained your student.  Each path can be the best one - it all depends upon your student.

 

Not all merit aid schools require FAFSA.  Check with colleges that interest you.

 

Net price calculators don't always work well with tricky finances to be honest, but you can try them to see if they offer merit aid with scores (some have theirs set up for this).

[Bootsie]

I don't think that there is one right answer to this question.  It depends so much on the individual student and the financial situation of a particular family.  Ii think there are a number of advantages to starting at a 4-year college.  I do not agree with the idea that students need to "ease in" to college; my experience is that most students do best jumping in and experiencing college fully from the beginning; those who "ease in" often develop poor habits and never become fully engaged in their college education.  Students benefit from being in contact and relationship with professors over their entire college career.  A college education can be so much more than "collecting credits."  The sooner a student gets to know professors, the more likely the student is to be nominated for departmental scholarships and offered internships.  Students have more time to get involved in on-campus organizations and serve in leadership positions.  One of my colleagues has studied the performance of students within his courses and has found that students who transferred in from community colleges consistently falls below that of those who started at the four year college--of course exceptions exist.

[Lolly]

Do check with the colleges she wants to attend. My girls do not need fafsa for merit aid. In fact, dd21 has scholarships that do not require it also.

 

CC does make college cheaper. No way around it really. The money you save by not attending a more expensive university is tremendous. Even if you lose $ in merit aid, most people are going to come out ahead financially by saving that money at the start. There are excellent scholarships out there for transfer students (the ones dd has received do not even require fafsa). Of course, they will not be available to everyone, but merit awards are not that great for all either. I am kinda laughing at the thought that attending a CC is going to make a good student lazy about their studies. I wish it had made my girl a little less diligent... I haven't seen that happen at all. Not with my dd. Not with her friends. (It is not uncommon at all for kids here to attend CC first. In fact, it is quickly becoming he norm.) The one problem she has found as a transfer student is breaking into already established groups of friends at college. This is probably complicated by the fact that, due to her allergies, she cannot live on campus. She also has to exclude many people as friends for the same reason.

[bettyandbob]

There is no right or wrong way to go to college. Only the way that is best for your dd. If attending cc first does not make sense for her situation and financial needs then she should not do it.

[Guest]

Where is he getting his information from? The fact that he is an accountant does not mean he is an expert on college financing etc.. His comment about transfer scholarships being better goes against everything I have heard in the past--my understanding has been that there are more scholarships available to freshmen than to transfer students at most schools. At selective schools, admission as a transfer student may be more competitive than admission as a freshman.

I think what he meant was that, taken as a whole, transfer scholarships coupled with first two years at a CC makes the full cost so much lower than if you get aid for one year only.

[Teachin'Mine]

Danielle, does your CC have an honors program?  If yes, then I wouldn't worry about other students having a negative influence as she can easily surround herself with other high achieving and motivated students.  CC doesn't have to be plan A, but it can certainly be a great plan B.   Just remember that he's an accountant and not a guidance counselor.   Explore lots of avenues as the most you'll lose is a bit of time and some application fees.  To find out just what is available at the CC, I would recommend visiting.   They may even have scholarships for top students, regardless of need, which would even further the cost savings.

[bettyandbob]

I will add our cc has an automatic transfer program in state. It's a special program you apply for. The application deadline is way before any college. I think it's October. So, starting the next sept for 4 semesters you follow a specific plan and based on your GPA you are automatically admitted to various state schools without a transfer application. It's a great program, especially for families who might have trouble with college costs, but don't qualify for grants.

 

If such a program exist in the MD cc system you might want to investigate the requirements. It might be worth applying to as a backup plan.

[Wheres Toto]

We had to do the FAFSA for state and federal loan programs.

 

My dd wouldn't have been able to take any courses for her major at our local CC and have them transfer as major credits, they would have been elective credits only.

[FaithManor]

Same for us Where's Toto. At the local cc, one could get an AA, and still end up with only 8 transferable credits for GEN ED, college writing always, always, always being taken over again no matter what. Some states do a really good job overseeing the quality of cc coursework and transfers. Michigan doesn't. For those that fully intend on getting a BA or BS, usually CC is not a good way to go unless the student needs remedial to begin with and then at $115.00 a credit hour plus fees, it's a bargain compared to paying for it at a four year uni assuming it's offered at the uni. Several Michigan schools do not offer any remedial. Students must be ready for a minimum college pre-calc, regular college writing, etc.

 

It pays to always, always, always investigate the schools and their policies. It varies wildly even within the same region.

[Lolly]

I will add our cc has an automatic transfer program in state. It's a special program you apply for. The application deadline is way before any college. I think it's October. So, starting the next sept for 4 semesters you follow a specific plan and based on your GPA you are automatically admitted to various state schools without a transfer application. It's a great program, especially for families who might have trouble with college costs, but don't qualify for grants.

 

If such a program exist in the MD cc system you might want to investigate the requirements. It might be worth applying to as a backup plan.

 

Same here. Every single credit transfered. And, there has been no problem with not knowing enough from her lowly CC classes. She jumped right in at the top of the class.

[Guest]

Danielle, does your CC have an honors program? If yes, then I wouldn't worry about other students having a negative influence as she can easily surround herself with other high achieving and motivated students. CC doesn't have to be plan A, but it can certainly be a great plan B. Just remember that he's an accountant and not a guidance counselor. Explore lots of avenues as the most you'll lose is a bit of time and some application fees. To find out just what is available at the CC, I would recommend visiting. They may even have scholarships for top students, regardless of need, which would even further the cost savings.

Yes, and transfer articulation in Maryland is excellent (from what I'm told). Our CC has an honors program that creates a cohort of achieving students, which would certainly be better than if they had no such thing. It basically is our Plan B, our Safety choice. I just received info from the CC about the program, although I already knew about it from a friend's dd who is going that route. My friend's dd is getting her AA basically for free because of the Hill Scholars program at CC. So, clearly, that would be nice...BUT I do think there are some drawbacks to going this route.

[Lori D.]

… I was meeting with our company accountant … asked him a few questions about FAFSA...

… he said, "here's what I recommend you do with the FAFSA: tear it up into little tiny pieces."

 

… our income will definitely not indicate need… [but we] would still need it to claim merit money, he agreed that that was true, but that I may find this is not the best way to go about it

 

… he felt the best strategy was to go CC for at least one year...

… He said transfer scholarships are often better anyway, and you have also already gotten your first portion at a bargain

… it helps the student "ease in" to college life if they start at CC.

 

Totally depends. On oodles of variables.

 

 

re: FAFSA

First, NOT all merit aid is dependent on need (i.e. FAFSA numbers).

 

And a LOT of universities ONLY award that non-need-based merit aid to those who have filled out the FAFSA. I don't know what your accountant was referring to when he said "this is not the best way to go about it." If the school *requires* the FAFSA to award merit aid, then that's what you do. Universities are very big entities; they basically say "my way or the highway", so I'm not sure how you get around that and have them still award you merit aid…  :confused1:

 

Our financial situation makes it look like we have no financial need :(, BUT still, we had to fill out the FAFSA. DS would NOT have received the $7000 scholarship if we had declined to fill out the FAFSA. And you can ask 8FilltheHeart about the missed scholarship a few years back because they didn't think they needed to fill out the FAFSA because it would indicate no need. :(

 

 

re: going to the CC for a year and the assorted benefits

Also: not all universities accept CC credits. And the credits they DO accept *may not apply* towards your student's chosen program, and therefore NOT save you money by shaving off time.

 

Also: Some 4-year university programs require very specific courses that must be taken ONLY at the university. Plus, they may only offer them once a year, and they are pre-requisites for further courses, so entering the program locks you into a 4-year or even 5-year track AT the university, regardless of how many courses were taken at the CC.

 

 

re: transfer vs freshman scholarships

And finally, transfer scholarships are far LESS numerous and harder to get due to high competition than freshman scholarships. Freshman scholarships are also far MORE apt to be renewable (can apply for and receive for more than 1 year), than transfer scholarships, which are usually 1-time awards.

 

I know several students who were able to shave off time/money by going 2 years at the local CC, and transferred with almost full scholarship money to the local 4-year university. And then the following year(s) have had to pay out of pocket for most of the tuition, as most of the transfer scholarships were 1-year only. It was still much less than going all 4 years at the university. BUT… it would NOT have been if they had instead received a 4-year full tuition scholarship as a freshman.

 

 

re: easing into college

For "easing" into college life: one route is 1-2 classes of dual enrollment in each semester of the senior year. Esp. useful for something like foreign language or a humanities/gen. ed. requirements. And high performing honors students, esp. homeschoolers used to self-discipline for scheduling, studying, homework, juggling extracurriculars, etc -- often don't need "easing into college" because they've already developed the necessary skills through homeschooling.

 

 

1) dd has said before she thinks all her honors, NHS, etc. would have been essentially a waste if she was "just" going to CC...

 

2) I attend the CC myself, so I know it is true that there are many … more "low-shooters" there in her age group, and that's not the influence I want her around.

 

3) I do want her to have the "complete" experience of college. I did not get this and I really am sorry I didn't.

 

1) Absolutely have to research and figure out all the variables for your specific situation to know what's the best route.

 

Sorry to not make this easier! But it's important to have ALL the facts to be able to make the best decision for your student and situation. So… research, research, research everything!

- university's scholarship offerings, and freshman vs. transfer scholarships (and requirements for renewing)

- university policies re: credits

- specific university program requirements

- CC's reputation and what credits transfer and where

- CC scholarship offerings (and requirements)

 

 

2) Both DSs have attended the CC here, and yes, there are a lot of "low-shooters", but there are also a lot of hard working, returning adults. But either way -- honestly, there is not really much "influence" going on. Other than sitting in the class, DSs didn't spend much time at the CC, didn't really socialize or make friends there -- most people are just there to get through their classes, not influence anyone.

 

 

3) If you mean, go all 4 years at the university, rather than transfer -- well, that might work out. It might not. But not necessarily due to anything the accountant was saying, or because you want to give your DD something you did not have.

 

I've also known a number of very bright students who started at the university on scholarships, and ended up withdrawing after 1 semester, or 1 year, or 2 years for all KINDS of reasons:

- illness/injury

- burned out on schooling/academics and left to do something else for awhile

- discovered the program wasn't what they wanted after all

- finances -- the scholarship was renewable, but the award amount did not increase and keep pace with tuition hikes

- lost the scholarship (GPA requirement and required # of credits per semester was too much to keep up)

- decided a different institution was a better match for what they wanted to do

 

While it's hard to have personal regrets, please don't make your own regrets the final deciding factor. This is DD's future and choice, and she needs to own it, because this is her adult life.

 

:grouphug: Hugs I know! it is SO much harder to figure these things out now that everything is SO much more complicated, so much more expensive, and so many more competing options.  :grouphug:  BEST of luck as you and DD navigate these tricky waters! Wishing you the very best! Warmly, Lori D.

[Lori D.]

Same here. Every single credit transfered. And, there has been no problem with not knowing enough from her lowly CC classes. She jumped right in at the top of the class.

 

This has been our experience with DS#1. Three years at the CC, to earn both an Associate's and take the credits that would transfer. He earned an extremely high GPA at the CC, so year 1 he got a small partial scholarship, years 2 & 3 he earned full scholarships -- so money saved to use towards the 4-year degree!

 

And, those CC scholarships and high GPA netted him a *renewable* transfer scholarship (highest that the school offers) at the 4-year university. He was able to go straight into the 4-year university's Honors program. Plus, enough credits transferred to shave off 2 years, so only needs 4 semesters to complete the Bachelor's.

 

 

BUT, it really depends on the CC. Not everyone has a high quality CC in their area.

[Pawz4me]

Why did he terrify you?

 

He's just one more person voicing his opinion.  Since he's an accountant and not a college admissions expert, I'd give his opinion the same grain of salt I gave any other random person's.

 

FWIW, we knew that we wouldn't qualify for any need-based aid except (maybe) at a couple of the very pricey private schools DS applied to.  But we filled out the FAFSA anyway.  It seemed to us that there were lots of good reasons to go ahead and do it, and (other than losing a bit of time) no good reason not to.

[Guest]

While it's hard to have personal regrets, please don't make your own regrets the final deciding factor. This is DD's future and choice, and she needs to own it, because this is her adult life.

 

Thank you for saying this. Truly. You are right and this does get in the way of my thinking. It saddens me that my own parents weren't able (in any sense) to provide a college experience and, as all attentive parents would want, I want her to have something great that I did not have.

[Serenade]

We are thinking of going the CC route. It sounds like we are in a similar financial position to you. I have always been a 4 year college snob, looking down upon community college as an alternative. But I think times have changed, and saving a year or two of college fees by going first to a community college may be the smart thing to do. I was speaking with a local community college teacher, to see what kind of a stigma might be attached to first attending a CC, and he said that universities love the CC students with a proven track record -- students who frequently switch to the university for their junior year, just when many other students who couldn't hack it are dropping out of the universities. FWIW, my husband went the CC route for two years, and ended up graduating with honors from the engineering program at University of Florida. He is all in favor of that route!

[Lori D.]

… It saddens me that my own parents weren't able (in any sense) to provide a college experience and, as all attentive parents would want, I want her to have something great that I did not have.

 

 

:( :crying:  So sorry for your disappointment/lack of college experiment.  :grouphug:

 

 

Yes, and transfer articulation in Maryland is excellent (from what I'm told). Our CC has an honors program that creates a cohort of achieving students, which would certainly be better than if they had no such thing. It basically is our Plan B, our Safety choice. I just received info from the CC about the program, although I already knew about it from a friend's dd who is going that route. My friend's dd is getting her AA basically for free because of the Hill Scholars program at CC. So, clearly, that would be nice...BUT I do think there are some drawbacks to going this route.

 

 

This sounds like a wonderful program! And an opportunity to get to know a smaller group of students. That doesn't always happen on a big university campus. :)

 

And, sometimes waiting / transferring is better for a student due to personality. Don't know your DD, but our DS is VERY introverted, and by starting at the CC and now transferring in, as an older student he better knows how to balance everything, and is more able to expend some energy initiating contact and getting involved in all of the wonderful campus life opportunities there on campus. So, he is getting a MUCH richer experience now by waiting until he was READY for this, and ABLE to take advantage of it all, than if he had tried starting there as a freshman -- he would have been overwhelmed and exhausted and retreated to his dorm room and missed out on so many opportunities.

 

So often, what initially looks like a disappointment, turns out to a much better opportunity and better fit for a student! :) So -- flexibility is a good idea as you plan! :) Wishing BOTH you and DD the very best in this journey! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Tullia]

My son started at CC with a state lottery scholarship and then received a generous transfer scholarship. He has not needed the FAFSA so far, but because one of his declared majors is CS he will probably use up the transfer scholarship before he's done.  If he can't make enough from an internship, he may be applying for private scholarships which do require completion of FAFSA.  My son learned pretty quickly to surround himself at the CC with like-minded people who were focused on completing a course of study and/or transferring to a four year school.  He also met a lot of adults who were at the CC for a career change, and their influence was positive.  CC was not something I had viewed in a positive way at first, but it has worked well for us.  That said, people here have had bad experiences with CC and I appreciated knowing what to watch out for. 

[3XBlessed]

Your accountant may be advising mainly from a financial perspective. I agree with all the others who say that you have to consider all the different factors on an individual basis. Consider how strong the CC's in your area are, how strong is the transfer program, or your student's major at that college? What is the percentage of students who transfer successfully, and to where do they transfer? How easy will it be for your student to get into the classes they need, as this could impact their ability to transfer in a timely manner (we are in CA, so budget cuts have impacted all levels of our public colleges). How good is the support system for transfer advising? In my son's case, the CC academic counselor line was so long, he could never get in to see the counselor. Due to budget cuts,the counselors were overburdened. But the CC had a strong articulation agreement with the university he wanted to transfer to. I ended up having to work with him as his advisor in choosing courses by spending hours on the state college system website to make sure he chose classes that would meet transfer requirements. He also established a working relationship with the transfer admissions counselor at the university he was trying to transfer into. She was extremely helpful, because it is part of their mission to increase college accessibility to the CC population.

 

Another factor is your student. Will your student be able to focus on her education goals, no matter what other students around her are doing? The CC does have some students who still act and think like they are in an extension of high school. My son stayed away from that group of students. He instead chose to align himself with the serious, studious group, which included older adults who had work and life experience and were retraining in a new field. His cohort of classmates was invaluable in terms of peer support while they struggled together studying for finals and completing projects, and they supported each other when they applied to transfer by critiquing each other's essays. Many were striving to transfer to highly competitive programs, so they were serious students.

[Guest]

Why did he terrify you?

 

He's just one more person voicing his opinion. Since he's an accountant and not a college admissions expert, I'd give his opinion the same grain of salt I gave any other random person's.

 

FWIW, we knew that we wouldn't qualify for any need-based aid except (maybe) at a couple of the very pricey private schools DS applied to. But we filled out the FAFSA anyway. It seemed to us that there were lots of good reasons to go ahead and do it, and (other than losing a bit of time) no good reason not to.

Well, his opinion does hold more weight to me than just any other opinionated person, because he knows our finances well (he does both our corporate and our personal taxes). Also, the man is really smart about money by all accounts. He is also within ten years of my age, so it's familiar ground to him; his youngest just graduated from uni in May.

 

I was being hyperbolic in saying "terrified," but I'm sooooo anxious about how this is all going to go down. I am debt-averse in general. If dd were a wishy-washy student, it would not bother me at all to say plan to go first to CC. But instead, she is a pretty decent student and has chosen harder work specifically to track towards more choosy colleges. It just feels like it was for nothing if we were going into it planning on CC from the outset.

 

For the Hill scholars honors program at our CC they do care about SATs, APs, Honors, and GPA, yet the student still has to take the ordinary placement tests. Granted, they aren't horrible, I took them myself four years back, but it's back to the feeling that SATs were a waste.

 

I just wish this process was simpler, though it's probably mostly me and my Molehill = Mountain.

[Jaybee]

Our older kids attend or have graduated from a large public uni. FAFSA is required for any scholarships at all; it's just the way they seem to put all the names in the scholarship pot. If I understand correctly, any scholarships that come directly through the university do not require further application. I.e., one of our students received a nice additional scholarship due to her area of study and county of residence (from a scholarship funded by the estate of someone). We did not know about it until it showed up in her uni account. At their uni, there is absolutely more money for freshmen than for transfers. Now, how it might all add up with CC costs in addition to scholarships, I have no idea. But for our kids, it was definitely the better choice to start straight at the 4-year. 

[creekland]

she is a pretty decent student and has chosen harder work specifically to track towards more choosy colleges. It just feels like it was for nothing if we were going into it planning on CC from the outset.

 

For the Hill scholars honors program at our CC they do care about SATs, APs, Honors, and GPA, yet the student still has to take the ordinary placement tests. Granted, they aren't horrible, I took them myself four years back, but it's back to the feeling that SATs were a waste.

 

I just wish this process was simpler, though it's probably mostly me and my Molehill = Mountain.

 

Again, you know your student best.  There's no problem at all with planning for the four year route (applications, interviews, etc) and keeping the cc route as a backup.

 

My middle son did some CC classes for high school and is now at a highly selective college, but it's not costing us more than we can afford (he has basic student loans, but we're not averse to that).  There's no way at all that he would consider a 2 + 2 program to be similar to the opportunities he's getting (esp with research labs he's in).  Students at his college take some CC classes over the summer to get some credits allowing them to take more of the classes they want at his college.  They consider their summer classes "super easy" comparatively according to some conversations he's told us about.

 

Youngest would not be able to get further with his education doing 2 + 2 either as his major classes are sequential and not offered here.  He could have a few Gen Ed credits that he would need, but it would only mean more credits at graduation and/or filling his time with other classes.  I'm not sure how this would have saved us money, but his major is a special one rather than a typical one.

 

So, those are "real" potential considerations.  Otherwise, I'll admit my bias to preferring the whole four years on campus for the entire experience.  This comes from both hubby and I loving our experiences and my boys enjoying theirs.  The things we've all been able to do both inside and outside the classroom are priceless to us (ok, priceless, but not worth 100K in debt!).

 

That said, for some students, it's not ideal for financial or "fit" reasons.  There are quite a few from our high school who start at CC and it works out well for them, so it is a path worth investigating for many.  It all depends upon the student, what they want, what their major is, etc, etc, etc.

 

Least expensive works for some - getting what you pay for (even if more costly) is worth it for some.  Going 100K in debt for undergrad is NOT worth it IMO.

[Melinda in VT]

It sounds like we are in a similar financial situation. Our oldest just started at a major state uni in a different state. He is on a full merit scholarship for four years. So far, we haven't had to fill out the FAFSA, but I will if that becomes necessary.

 

CC would have been a bad choice for this kid. He's going into math, and the CCs here don't offer the classes he needs. (He's starting with Calc III.)

[8filltheheart]

I didn't read all of the responses, but it is naive for anyone to suggest to a parent that there is a one size fits all answer.

 

Our oldest missed out on university scholarship opportunities b/c we didn't fill out FAFSA. The school required it for merit $$, but we didn't understand that until too late.

 

Our youngest ds, who is a college freshman, is on full scholarship at a school that doesn't require FAFSA (even though we filled it out for other schools he applied to, we didn't send it to the school he is attending b/c they didn't require it.)

 

We have one child who is a graduated of an Allied Health program through a CC (she is an OTA, occupational therapy assistant.) It was a perfect fit for her.

 

But, her oldest and youngest brothers.....a CC would have been a disastrous decision. Our youngest ds was already taking 300 level courses in high school. A CC would never have met their academic needs.

[chiguirre]

For the Hill scholars honors program at our CC they do care about SATs, APs, Honors, and GPA, yet the student still has to take the ordinary placement tests. Granted, they aren't horrible, I took them myself four years back, but it's back to the feeling that SATs were a waste.

 

I just wish this process was simpler, though it's probably mostly me and my Molehill = Mountain.

 

The APs aren't a waste at all. They still count (at least here in TX). You either get credit by exam (AP, CLEP, some SAT2 scores and even a comp credit for a high writing score on the ACT or SAT) or you take the course at the CC. Once you've got all the prereqs to transfer (here it's called being "core complete") you apply to transfer based on your GPA.

 

Can you find the articulation agreements between your CC and the MD state universities? That should clarify the process and what counts. In TX, there are forms with course numbers which lay out what classes you need to take at the CC.

[Wildcat]

Doh! I was meeting with our company accountant (about business), but also asked him a few questions about FAFSA. I've said on here before that I think FAFSA will be tricky for us, due to our complicated financial life. So, anyway, he said, "here's what I recommend you do with the FAFSA: tear it up into little tiny pieces."

 

Basically, he said that our income will definitely not indicate need, which I knew, but when I said I know I would still need it to claim merit money, he agreed that that was true, but that I may find this is not the best way to go about it. (Sorry for the run-on.) then he said he felt the best strategy was to go CC for at least one year. He said transfer scholarships are often better anyway, and you have also already gotten your first portion at a bargain. Not to mention, he advises that it helps the student "ease in" to college life if they start at CC.

 

Uh. This is exactly what I USED TO think! This was originally what I thought we would guide dd towards doing, but I changed my mind for these reasons:

 

1) dd has said before she thinks all her honors, NHS, etc. would have been essentially a waste if she was "just" going to CC. Out of her close friends, she is the only one taking math, fourth-year language, and AP lit this year, because she wants to have the healthy resume. (Wait - I lie. There is one girl she hangs with who is on an ambitious college track.) she just told me "so-and-so dropped math, science and an AP, because she expects to get a sports scholarship."

 

2) I attend the CC myself, so I know it is true that there are many young folks there who will not be moving on to a 4-yr school. Also, generally speaking, there truly ARE more "low-shooters" there in her age group, and that's not the influence I want her around.

 

3) I do want her to have the "complete" experience of college. I did not get this and I really am sorry I didn't.

 

So, I don't know. He might be right. He might be wrong. He kinda terrified me, and, as you can tell by my other posts, I was nervous to begin with.

 

I don't blame you for being nervous. This whole college thing is very intimidating because it's complicated and no two schools seem to do things the same way!

 

As others have said, some colleges require the "F" form for merit aid and some don't, so check with the school/s your dd chooses. Interestingly, the colleges my kids are looking at do not require it for merit aid, but the local cc does.

 

To address your numbered concerns:

1. The honors/NHS stuff is not a waste anywhere--- those classes helped her develop good study habits, etc, which will be necessary no matter where she goes to school. The AP Lit may or may not even count for a class/es at your dd's school (they are all different), but the AP WORKLOAD has prepared her well.

 

2. If the CC is decent enough, it should be fine for your dd. She'll find 'slackers' at a 4-year college, too. I have heard some doozies from my ds and his friends! She will have to align herself with 'like-minded' folk at either institution.

 

3. What does your dd want? I also didn't have a traditional college experience, and have never felt I missed out on much, but I let my kids decide what sort of experience they wanted--- CC, At Home U, or Away From Home U.

 

As for the transfer scholarships, I'm pretty in the loop on three popular unis near me and not one of them offers much, and as pointed out upthread, there are fewer of them, so they're competitive (how's THAT for a run on?). Typically, the best scholarships are for freshmen.

 

And I agree with Margaret---- just because those cc classes transfer doesn't mean they'll count towards the MAJOR.

 

Quill, you know your dd. Decide on a school, and then if the "F" form is needed for merit aid, so be it. Don't let your well-meaning accountant sway your/your dd's decision.

[Guest]

3. What does your dd want? I also didn't have a traditional college experience, and have never felt I missed out on much, but I let my kids decide what sort of experience they wanted--- CC, At Home U, or Away From Home U.

 

She wants to go away from home for four years. Not *very* far away, but in her perfect scenario, she would be near, but off-campus at a large university, with roommates, cooking her own food, and able to keep her cat. Granted, there are not a lot of places where she can have *ALL* of those perks from day one, but, for example, colleges that require living on-campus for all four years are instantly eliminated from the maybe pile. It is a deal-breaker. So, in a hierarchy of best-to-worst, it would go like this for her:

1. Live off campus close to a large school, but not at home, all four years.

2. Live on-campus for required first year, then move off for the remaining three.

3. Live at home while commuting for up to two years; at least she could cook her own food and play with her cat.

4. Live on campus for all four years - she does not want this at all.

 

I do think it important that she has the experience she hopes for if possible, but I also have always believed that what we can afford is a significant factor. I would not lead my kids to imagine that we will come up with the money to finance any experience she desires, KWIM? I'm a big believer in the Reality Check.

[Lolly]

On the CC classes not counting towards the major, that happens anytime you switch majors. I had it happen to me way back when. I ended up taking every biology my college offered because I started out in the not for science majors biology at the insistence of my advisor. I had to go back and retake the freshman biology classes for science majors. It just added a couple of classes. If the CC has an articulation agreement in place with the college, and the student stays in their declared major all of the classes will count, and they will count towards the major they are in. If they change majors when they transfer, they might have to retake some classes because they took the wrong ones while they were under a different major. Schools that do not have agreements with the CC can pick and choose what they accept. Just like if you were transferring from one 4 year to another.

[Lolly]

She wants to go away from home for four years. Not *very* far away, but in her perfect scenario, she would be near, but off-campus at a large university, with roommates, cooking her own food, and able to keep her cat. Granted, there are not a lot of places where she can have *ALL* of those perks from day one, but, for example, colleges that require living on-campus for all four years are instantly eliminated from the maybe pile. It is a deal-breaker. So, in a hierarchy of best-to-worst, it would go like this for her:

1. Live off campus close to a large school, but not at home, all four years.

2. Live on-campus for required first year, then move off for the remaining three.

3. Live at home while commuting for up to two years; at least she could cook her own food and play with her cat.

4. Live on campus for all four years - she does not want this at all.

 

I do think it important that she has the experience she hopes for if possible, but I also have always believed that what we can afford is a significant factor. I would not lead my kids to imagine that we will come up with the money to finance any experience she desires, KWIM? I'm a big believer in the Reality Check.

Then, that is what she should aim for if you can swing it financially. (Said by parent whose child chose to attend a small LAC with 50% coverage vs a small LAC where she would have had to pay for her books... It was her choice. And, I think she made the right one.) If it is going to put you into a financial struggle or taking out loans vs not, then you have a tougher choice. 

[Lori D.]

She wants to go away from home for four years… off-campus at a large university, with roommates, cooking her own food, and able to keep her cat...

 

… hierarchy of best-to-worst…  for her:

1. Live off campus close to a large school, but not at home, all four years.

2. Live on-campus for required first year, then move off for the remaining three.

3. Live at home while commuting for up to two years; at least she could cook her own food and play with her cat.

4. Live on campus for all four years - she does not want this at all.

 

That helps, knowing what kind of living situation she'd like. :)

 

Gently… I would suggest that the school offering the academics, quality specific program, and other helpful options (internships, research, the professors, campus life offerings, etc.) that will best equip DD for her chosen career and help her develop as a person might want to be at the very TOP of this list. ;)

 

Back to living arrangements:

Plan on an additional $10,000 a year for living in a dorm and a meal plan. Plan on more than that a year for living off-campus, but not at home -- rent is usually higher, and then the extra costs of transportation to/from campus, semester parking fees, and to/from store for grocery shopping.

 

Scholarships generally only cover tuition and/or books. Unless you are lucky and get the rare full-ride scholarship that also covers room and board or received additional "outside" scholarship monies that can be spent how you wish, plan on covering living expenses yourselves. Also note: scholarship money that exceeds tuition and fees is TAXABLE. See this article from FinAid on the Taxability of Scholarships.

[Teachin'Mine]

It sounds to me that when she talks of the college experience, it has more to do with the living arrangement than the academics.   Do you have an affordable state university?  That might meet her needs better than a liberal arts college which may require her to live on campus all four years.  What are her goals regarding her college education?  If she really doesn't know, the CC might be a good place for her to start for a year anyway, unless you think she could qualify for some merit aid as a freshman applicant.  

[Lori D.]

It sounds to me that when she talks of the college experience, it has more to do with the living arrangement than the academics. 

 

That's what I was thinking, too. Maybe DD would prefer to move into her own place, work part-time, and go to school part time (either the university or the CC) and knock out some of the gen. ed. requirements while she thinks about what she wants as a career...

 

Or, if she has the 4-year scholarship, go with option #3 in her hierarchary, which gives her the most opportunity to figure out what she wants to do without it costing the extra thousands of dollars of living away from home that might really be needed later for either a degree that takes 5-6 years instead of 4 (lots of students chance their minds multiple times, and some programs take 4.5 to 5 years to complete due to the way the schools set them up). Or use that money towards a Master's degree that may be really necessary to work in her chosen field.

[Elisabet1]

The accountant probably does not know. Where I live, state schools will not give financial aid unless your need is low enough to qualify for pell grant. Private schools will often give way more. Just do the FAFSA. It is free, it won't hurt to do it.

[Bootsie]

I would caution your daughter to think about what she really wants when she says she wants to live off-campus near a large university.  Generally, students who live on campus do better in school and are more involved in campus activities (of course, there are always exceptions).  It sounds as if she wants to live in an apartment to cook and have her cat.  But, apartment living, especially near a large campus can come with a lot of additional things, especially those that are marketed as "off campus apartments."  Roommate issues become more complex in off-campus arrangements.  If she knows people she wants to room with, living off campus provides more flexibility.  But, what if one roommate decides to leave, she could be stuck with the enitre rent, electric bill, etc.  Some "off campus apartments" will arrange roommates and the student is only responsible for his/her bills in a shared apartment.  However, there is no guarantee that the other "students" that your child is living with are even enrolled in college. 

[Guest]

Gently… I would suggest that the school offering the academics, quality specific program, and other helpful options (internships, research, the professors, campus life offerings, etc.) that will best equip DD for her chosen career and help her develop as a person might want to be at the very TOP of this list.

 

I did not mean to say everything she cares about is about the living arrangements. I was only focusing on that element because that is where expense saving comes into the picture. All of the colleges on the short list meet her other needs. She is looking at English or similar majors, which is available everywhere. There are other features that are better about one school or the other, but they are all good.

[Guest]

It sounds to me that when she talks of the college experience, it has more to do with the living arrangement than the academics. Do you have an affordable state university? That might meet her needs better than a liberal arts college which may require her to live on campus all four years. What are her goals regarding her college education? If she really doesn't know, the CC might be a good place for her to start for a year anyway, unless you think she could qualify for some merit aid as a freshman applicant.

Yes. We have more than one. None of them are her favorites, though; if she goes to any public in-state, it will be ninety percent based on expense. U of Maryland, College Park, is an outstanding school, but there are no guarantees of acceptance for her there. Their stats are high and apps pour in there by the tens of thousands. St. Mary's is public and the academics are outstanding. I would be perfectly overjoyed for her to attend St. Mary's College of MD. She likes it there, and I believe she would be happy there, but straight up - she loves JMU and UD a lot more.

[creekland]

I'm guessing none of these colleges have pet dorms?  Youngest lives in a pet dorm in FL, and while he doesn't (yet) have a pet, there are several he can enjoy being with whenever he wants.  I'm not sure how many colleges offer this option.

[Guest]

I'm guessing none of these colleges have pet dorms? Youngest lives in a pet dorm in FL, and while he doesn't (yet) have a pet, there are several he can enjoy being with whenever he wants. I'm not sure how many colleges offer this option.

No, none of those she is into have pet dorms. I have heard of it, but it seems to be rare.

[Luckymama]

I'm guessing none of these colleges have pet dorms? Youngest lives in a pet dorm in FL, and while he doesn't (yet) have a pet, there are several he can enjoy being with whenever he wants. I'm not sure how many colleges offer this option.

UD has a dorm (or maybe a part of the dorm) for students interested in training young dogs to become guide dogs.

 

But that's it so far.

[Laura in CA]

I thought (from something I read on this board?) that you could file a FAFSA in later years only if you had filed it for freshman year.
Also, circumstances change - Mark Kantowicz (sp?) at NYT says 1 in 6 high-school seniors have a parent lose his/her job that year. So, just because it seems like a freshman won't qualify for need-based aid ... well, things could change.

Also, as 8FillTheHeart says, one can lose out on scholarships ...

My son is working two jobs on campus (because he wants to), and the work-study jobs are the most desirable to students (highly paid -- up to $18+/hr -- and flexible around your school schedule) and also to the employers (b/c 25-50% of the salary is paid by the gov't). I believe one has to file the FAFSA in order to qualify for work-study.

ETA: My 17yo son is making $16/hr at a work-study job; he also has a small *subsidized* loan. Neither would have been possible without filing the FAFSA. My husband was convinced we wouldn't qualify for need-based aid b/c of high income / assets (on paper), but there are other advantages besides grants & scholarships.

 

ETAA: He is interviewing today for a second job, which pays $30-$35/hr. It is available *only* to work-study students. My son was able to increase his initial, rather small work-study amount to the maximum ($4k) by converting loans. He can increase it further later. FAFSA? Totally worth it for us.

[Lori D.]

I thought (from something I read on this board?) that you could file a FAFSA in later years only if you had filed it for freshman year.

 

Our experience has been that the specific school has required us file a new FAFSA each year in order to keep the renewable scholarship.

[Lolly]

I thought (from something I read on this board?) that you could file a FAFSA in later years only if you had filed it for freshman year.

Also, circumstances change - Mark Kantowicz (sp?) at NYT says 1 in 6 high-school seniors have a parent lose his/her job that year. So, just because it seems like a freshman won't qualify for need-based aid ... well, things could change.

 

Also, as 8FillTheHeart says, one can lose out on scholarships ...

 

My son is working two jobs on campus (because he wants to), and the work-study jobs are the most desirable to students (highly paid -- up to $18+/hr -- and flexible around your school schedule) and also to the employers (b/c 25-50% of the salary is paid by the gov't). I believe one has to file the FAFSA in order to qualify for work-study.

Not true.

[Laura in CA]

Not true.

This must depend on the school, then (like everything!), b/c I know (think!) it is true in some cases.

[Lolly]

This must depend on the school, then (like everything!), b/c I know (think!) it is true in some cases.

No, fafsa is actually for governmental aid. The school can use it for other purposes as well, but the student is allowed to qualify for the government aid starting at any given year. Some of the school aid, which they can require fafsa to be file to receive, can be limited to beginning the freshman year, yes.

[unsinkable]

There is a company here that will fill out the FAFSA for you. We didn't use it bc our situation is straight forward but I know of others who did.

 

Maybe there is one in your area?