What do you do when the fundamentals are broken?

[Student Mommie]

The fundamentals of my relationship with my eldest child are broken.  I have been attempting to control him from very young, I did not have the skill to know how to interact with him properly.  (And my husband was much worse.)  Now that I've had another child and I've matured in some ways, I see how very very broken things were with my first.  For example, even to the point where I forced him to always relent to the other child at the playground to learn how to be "nice".  So of course, now he has boundary issues and major control issues, very resistant to any kind of control.  I mean he has underlying developmental issues/delays and personality that make him more susceptible to this stuff, but of course with mediocre parenting it's all going to mushroom.  I love my kids so much and always mean well-- but wow-- I sure passed on my baggage in my weakness.

 

So when things are so broken, where do you begin?

 

Did any of you start from a very broken place and manage to repair your relationship and have your kids blossom?

 

 We have such bad patterns in place now.  They are so rigid in me that it's hard for me to even see it, but I know it is very broken.  I'm yelling at the kids all the time, and my son is either totally oblivious to my attempts at directing him (he does not 'register' it at all, apparently) or he finally wakes up, notices i'm screaming, and is scared.  I know what i'm doing is stupid but in the moment it seems to make sense.  I probably have some developmental issues myself as I cannot seem to generalize the parenting tips I read.  

 

So I know "Well, of course you begin with yourself" but I'm not sure what that means in practice, how do we continue running our lives in the meanwhile?  

 

I guess change takes hours every day of working on yourself.  I don't have that time, we are always rushed?  Do I just drop everything, let my child have his autonomy, until I get my own act together?  But he's constantly fighting with his sister.  I can't exactly just leave them to their own devices.  I guess I just send him outside by himself to play all day?  Maybe totally switch to ipad/movie/book-on-tape schooling, let his dyslexia/dysgraphia/dyscalculia remediation be on hold for a few months?

 

[PeterPan]

When I read this, I thought your dc would be 15!  He's only 7.  You have time.  So I'll tell you what I do, and you can see.  I'm a christian, so I pray, obviously for the normal things (grace, more control, more patience, more wisdom, more peace, more vision, etc.). But for a while now I've also asked God to help my children forgive me.  I think you're right that the hurts they experience with our imperfect responses are REAL and can be serious and can lead to bitterness now and sad memories later.  I think that forgiveness is grace, and I think it comes from God.  So I ask God to give it to them.  And obviously I apologize.

 

And hug a lot.

And pick up the house.

And stop being so busy and figure out what is maxing us out and stop it, cut it out, whatever it takes.

And drop whatever is pushing us over the top.

And do what it takes to get MOM more stable.  (more sleep, better food, time with other moms, a haircut, whatever)

 

I don't find it exceedingly helpful to leave him with large swaths of time to himself.  He *likes* it, but it's better for his mind and wearing him out (and the emotional needs he doesn't realize he has) if he spends time with me.  So don't go all or nothing.  Make a list of the things that are making your life a zoo and figure out what is optional.  Then pick 2 things to do every day with them.  In our house, those two things are read alouds/cuddling and table time.  And table time in our house is working together for 30-40 minutes on whatever we get done.  (math, dot to dots, alphabet or phonemic awareness stuff, etc.)

 

Try to get some structure into your day.  Think about where you're falling apart for lack of routines and where you could change *1* thing that would actually make a difference.  Like if having dinner in the crockpot every day would make a difference, change that.  

 

Are you working a job or doing something extra?  Any health problems?  Are you getting time with other adults?

[prairiewindmomma]

Stop yelling. Try making just that change and see what happens. Some ideas of what to do when you need to get their attention instead:

1. Whisper or talk softly

2. Lightly touch their shoulder

3. Ask them to look at you so that you know they are listening, and once you have that connection, then share what you need to

4. Walk over and get in their eyeline and wait for them to look up and engage with you.

5. Turn off all background noise (tv, clothes dryer, radio, etc) and call them by name to have them come to you.

 

When you do mess up and yell, apologize, explain you are trying to do better and begin again. You might come up with a small reward system for yourself.

 

Oh.E's advice about self-care and bigger changes is right on....but the yelling is inexcusable and needs to stop now.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Stop rushing.  For now just do the 3 R's.  That's all you need with a 7 year old esp. if he is having some learning problems.

 

Start listening to your body.  When you start to tense up, stop.  Think about what your goal is in that moment.  Is it a goal that is crucial?  Or can you let go some of the control and let your child get there his own way?  Start prioritizing your goals.  Controlling what your child is wearing isn't such a high priority.  Let him have some more autonomy in that.  Controlling whether your son does math at all, is a high priority.  (Though you might have some lee-way in what math game you play or in what order you do your lessons.)  Obviously if he's stepping out into traffic you can scream and run and grab him.  Otherwise, no.  

 

Get your child to look at you.  Prairie's suggestions are great.  Tell (don't yell) him what you need.  Then expect obedience and wait.  If necessary, redirect or give a small consequence.  Don't forget to praise him when he listens and cooperates.  It doesn't have to be overboard - just a "Thank you.  I like it that you listened."  

 

Troubleshoot problem times.  We all have them.  Going out the door to get to an appointment is one for our family.  So I've had to stop and think about what I need to do to make it less stressful.  And then do it.  Less stress, means less drama.  

[Scarlett]

I thought for sure the child was going to be 16! :).

 

You have time and you can do this.

[Jennifer-72]

I think you got some excellent suggestions. I really do think you need to look at your life on the whole and see what is causing you to be stuck in this sort of survival mode instead of enjoying time with your kids. I think if you can figure that out the rest will fall into place. I know that is much, much easier said then done!

 

My only suggestion would be to try and start your morning with something that all three of you enjoy like a game or a read aloud snuggled in bed. Maybe starting off your day with a small ritual like that will help u stay in that connected zone and would help you focus on keeping that going during the day.

 

I hope you find something that works for you.

[PeterPan]

To follow up Prairie's comment about touching on the shoulder, I read in a book (title slips my mind, one of those gross books with very fine print) that basically kids with language processing disorders will have issues with initiation.  So they might know they WANT something and know they need to do something, but to INITIATE the action to accomplish their goal they can't do.  So my ds would literally sit at the island and pound and holler for something he wanted, like a tyrant king, because he couldn't organize in his brain the steps and actually initiate and do it.  

 

The ANSWER to that, according to the book (and what works in my small experience) is the thing Prairie was saying, that you touch them lightly on the shoulder and get the motion going.  So we do a lot of that now, either touching to bring him into our world to receive instructions or touching and getting the motion going to initiate the thing we want to happen.  

 

So, for instance, with my pounding at the island story, he wanted a bowl of cereal.  I had to discuss with him the steps, touch him on the shoulder, get him down, physically walk him toward the draw, walk him to the spoons, etc.  It wasn't enough that he knew he wanted the cereal.  He literally couldn't make it happen.  Now at this point I just *remind* him of the steps.  He thinks I'm terribly mean, because I spend a lot of our day saying No, I won't do it for you, tell me the steps, solve your problem.  But I really have to because there's just something glitchy there.  Even something as simple as getting a glass of water he'll end up asking me to do rather than doing it himself.

 

 

[PeterPan]

Tell (don't yell) him what you need.  Then expect obedience and wait.  If necessary, redirect or give a small consequence.  Don't forget to praise him when he listens and cooperates.  It doesn't have to be overboard - just a "Thank you.  I like it that you listened."  

 

I don't mean to harp on this, but if there's a language processing disorder it can LOOK like disobedience and it's really not.  I'm with you all the way on the value of obedience, Ted Tripp, etc. etc.  Totally get you, with you.  But it's really important to note that if the kid has certain disabilities, you may need to put your hand on them and HELP them obey, HELP them take the steps.  I seriously would *not* just command and wait.  You could end up giving consequences for disability rather than giving consequences for lack of volition.  In our house, I require Yes ma'am.  I do it because that is a way to show volition.  Then I know you WANT to.  But to command and wait, I'd make sure your expectation is neurologically appropriate for the particular dc and his disabilities.  Just saying.  You can't go wrong with *helping* them obey, with putting your hand on them and getting them going.  But that usually involves Mom getting up and that's the tiring part.  The hard part is being there quietly beside them READY to make sure they actually DO what you just said.  My theory is don't say it if you don't mean it.

[Heathermomster]

No, I would not stop teaching nor would I blame myself for self perceived bad parenting. If you acted out of malice with the intent to injure your boy, I would say you had a problem. You love your son. You are his mother and you have not caused any control issues. Children shirk authority because they are kids. They are born to disobey and we are born to teach them. As parents, it is you and your spouse's responsibility to raise him to live under authority. Behavior needs to be addressed appropriately. I don't understand your child's issues. My son's reading/handwriting/maths disability does not prevent him from understanding the word no.

If dyslexia remediation is difficult for you, hire a tutor and be done with it for awhile. Just diffuse that bomb now.

What are you using for math? Whatever it is, restrict it to 15- 20 minutes max. Seriously, their working memory cannot handle more.

Dysgraphia? Scribe for him. I would not be losing any sleep over that. You can't see it now, but I promise you that handwriting is no hill to die on.

Absolutely use books on tape and documentaries and Magic School House videos. Read aloud fun stories and hands-on science could be fun. Give your DS some control over the fun stuff.

Meet a lady friend for coffee or dinner one night, every couple of weeks. Eat dark chocolate. Maybe set up a beginning, middle, and end with teaching. Establish that routine and make it a priority. You may need to farm out or hire a sitter for your younger child. Whatever the case, look at your situation and problem solve. Try to identify areas that you can tweak to get the teaching done. Hug that boy often and tell him that you love him. Gird those loins too. We have all had bad weeks. Hang in there.

[Guest2]

You can do this. I say this with love, but what has been happening is not ok. I think it is great that you have realized this and want to change, and would encourage you to get some counseling, and maybe get a physical with your hormone levels checked. Sometimes there is a physical reason why things have been extra difficult. The great suggestions above about crockpots, and getting some social time away for yourself are necessary.

 

 

Is there anything that you like doing together.. Reading, games, ect.? Take things slowly , give both of the kids stickers(if appropriate)candy ( some kids will do anything for a skittle..if you use this) , attention , and praise for doing the right things. If you need to correct , try to distract at this point when possible , so no one gets attention for doing the wrong thing. Make your environment as relaxing as possbile with music , lighting, decluttering. Songs, make things fun, read aloud library books in a fort under the table, I think you will be surprised how much more you enjoy your day too! Just ideas , but maybe set up a schedule so he knows what to expect. Once you have a more positve enviornment , you will have a better time with stronger academic challenge in the next few years. I'm sure it may take a while for things to turn around, but they will. I feel for you and think In a few years you are going to be so happy you are adressing all of this now:)

[Student Mommie]

Thank you, everyone.  Thank you, thank you, thank you.  You have given me great guidance and hope that I will be able to turn all this around if I get cracking with your ideas.

[IsabelC]

I have been in a similar place with my son, and I have found that a couple of things were really helpful.

 

1. Be gentle and kind on yourself and don't expect miracles (although, paradoxically, miracles sometimes do happen just when you have let go of those high expectations). Yes, you have made mistakes and hurt him. But having the courage to recognize this and the determination to change things is half the battle, so give yourself a pat on the back for that. You don't have to do everything at once. Small, manageable changes can snowball into something bigger and better. So pick achievable things to put into practice, rather than trying to follow all those excellent suggestions at the same time. And appreciate the things that you are already doing well (yes, there are some).

 

2. Enjoy your child. I know that can sound laughably impossible when your relationship is in a bad place, but you really can decide to do this, even if it's only for a few minutes, a few times a day. When I started to think about what was wrong with me and my 'difficult' child, I realized that almost all of my interaction with him was both controlling and negative. With a few exceptions, every conversation I had with him centered around making him do something he didn't want to do, preventing him from doing something he did want to do, or getting him to back off and leave me alone to do what I wanted to do! Not surprising that he wasn't responding with a truckload of respect, and neither of us was feeling great... But as soon as I decided having some positive interactions was more important than making him do everything I want, his attitude changed massively for the better, and suddenly I was enjoying being with him so much more of the time.

 

Also, have you considered whether professional support might help you to deal with the childhood 'baggage' you mentioned? 

[Heathermomster]

After reading your weekend thread, I believe your DS has an issue affecting his ability to self-regulate.  I believe the frustration that you are currently experiencing is related to the lack of a diagnosis with your son.  Recognize that possibility and maybe consider getting the issues identified so that you can better manage him and yourself.  Sometimes I find that having a plan helps me feel more in control of my situation.  If you have a clearer picture of why your DS responds the way he does, you can develop responses that will help him grow too and bring some peace back to your home.    

[Student Mommie]

Hello Heather, he actually was diagnosed with ADHD and dyslexia.  Not a full neuro-psych eval, though-- that has to wait until we have some income.

 

*************

 

Well, I came back to this thread to report that thanks to some tough love from this thread (and thanks to grace) I went a full day today without yelling (and mostly being at ease without agitation/aggression in my voice either-- I did slip a little at bedtime when the kids were chatting for twenty minutes while they were dreadfully slowly changing into pajamas and I was staring at the clock worrying).  This is HUGE!  It's been my goal for awhile now and I went radical in order to achieve this, every day trying new things including wearing a ton of jewelry (as a reminder, when I see or hear the jewelery I was supposed to have centered myself and reminded myself that there is no emergency) and setting my phone to ring every five minutes (another reminder-- but these things didn't work!! :)).  I also did a lot of crying instead of getting angry, which is a shift for me-- I think this is how I was finally able to get to a place today where I was not angry.  I finally allowed myself to grieve the difficulty with the kids, I allowed the heartbreak to surface, instead of burying it with anger.

 

I must admit I had to let go of most schoolwork to achieve this no-yelling today, because ds7's attention shifted to zero as we were about to start math and I have enough experience by now to know that pushing the schoolwork would only be beating a dead horse.  It's funny, when I was caught up in emotion and anger and frustration, I couldn't "see" that it was fruitless to push schoolwork when he was in that state.  When I looked at the situation from a place of calm, it was clear that there was no way I would be able to force the schoolwork without resorting to allowing violence into my heart (anger).  So I just had him do a bunch of chores instead, which he was happy to do in exchange for getting out of schoolwork (a happy surprise-- he usually resists chores to the point where I've given up due to exhaustion).  Indeed, from this place of calm I was also able to see clearly that perhaps my son really could benefit from a trial with ADHD meds, which before I was too worried about to consider seriously.  I kind of want to send him to do heavy labor at a farm for a couple years instead to help him develop and mature, but that option doesn't actually exist in real life.

 

 

 

 

 

 

After reading your weekend thread, I believe your DS has an issue affecting his ability to self-regulate.  I believe the frustration that you are currently experiencing is related to the lack of a diagnosis with your son.  Recognize that possibility and maybe consider getting the issues identified so that you can better manage him and yourself.  Sometimes I find that having a plan helps me feel more in control of my situation.  If you have a clearer picture of why your DS responds the way he does, you can develop responses that will help him grow too and bring some peace back to your home.    

 

[IsabelC]

Well done! A full day with no yelling is a huge achievement considering you had gotten into a bit of a yelling habit, and it sounds like you have made a massive breakthrough with your own emotional issues. This is really big and important stuff, so don't beat yourself up about whether any school work gets done right now: once your family dynamics are working better, there will be plenty of time to hit the books again. Do you have some adult support IRL?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Wonderful!  It will be a daily (and hourly) struggle at first as you establish a new normal.  

[Heathermomster]

Well done, Mom!

 

Try to remember that the ADHD is an organic brain issue.  He does not choose his behaviors and would rather please you.  

 

I have DS do chores in between subjects like empty the trash, rotate laundry, or refill the dishwasher to reset his brain.  I have to remember to set a timer so that he doesn't drag the process out.