XP: If DD had her way, I'd be "strewing" math and science.

[dauphin]

XP from General Ed.

 

I'm wishing we could do it more git 'r done. At least on bad days.

 

DD11 is very strong/accelerated in math. I've always said she "likes it." But I've struggled with how to manage her math education all along, particularly because of a problem with low frustration tolerance. I think it exists to some extent because concepts/mastery comes fairly easily to her, so she doesn't like it when it actually makes her WORK (whether it's having to write a bunch of it out, or simply having to think hard about it and strain her brain a little bit). So we often get tears and (what I often don't realize until later are) avoidance behaviors. BUT if we're able to push through on a really challenging one, she is quite proud of herself, maybe even a little smug, and says she likes problems like that.    :confused:  But I'm afraid that something like AoPS would, at least this year, be too much - a little more seasoning (or maturity?) would likely be better.... She also gets all cranky when she has forgotten how to do a type of problem (e.g., area), but says "oh yeah" once I can break through to give her a reminder. 

 

Yesterday, it seemed that she had gotten her fill of math for the week, and then I had printed up something for review from MM and left it laying around to put together with next week's stuff, and the next thing I hear: "Oh! The sieve of Eratosthenes! I LOVE this!" and sits down to go through it while she eats her lunch. OooooooK. LOL. And that's her. She would really rather do interest-led MATH. Gah! But if left to her own choices, I think she'd stick with the really EASY stuff. But I haven't "let" her totally take over direction yet, I don't think I could handle it. Right now, she's trying to persuade me to let her "go back and get mastery on EVERYTHING on Khan Academy" (yes, starting with basic arithmetic/counting). Well, that WAS my goal about 2 years ago when we started homeschooling abruptly and I had no idea what to do with her math-wise as her lack of fit with the private school's Saxon 5/4 (well, more precisely, their unwillingness to consider acceleration/adaptations in ANY way for any subject, but math was a big sticking point) was a big piece of us deciding to homeschool. 

 

Prior to our 3 months there in 4th grade, DD had been at a Montessori school and had been doing early Algebra (Hands on Equations) in 3rd grade. But really, it's kind of hard to get a handle on Montessori's scope/sequence for math, especially as it can vary from one manual/classroom to another (and I was never planning on homeschooling so I had done ZERO thinking about all of this). So back to Khan Academy - I suggested early on that we just use it to document/verify that she has mastered all of the pre-algebra content (not Pre-Algebra but pre-algebra) and identify any needs. I mean, all you have to do is get 5 right in a row...and practice it a couple of times, and sometimes it seems like they give you quizzes and let you jump ahead on things...and...and...she got burned out on it. In part, I think, because it wasn't always "easy" for her to get 5 in a row due to careless errors. So I figured KA was off the books. And it's been all KINDS of fits and starts since then. All sorts of placement tests, many of which, when based on "grade-level" classifications, didn't give me a good working plan - as she had some gaps and strengths up through grade 7-8.  Her first placement test right after withdrawing from the school was Saxon, placing her in 7/6, but we both hated Saxon (we never even bought 7/6, just took their online placement test). After a while I understood that antipathy - it is spiral and this child needs mostly mastery. So I've recently realized that perhaps I wasn't giving her enough spiral/review? That the occasional revisiting of old material would have been advisable? 

 

Anyway, I finally wised up and gave her the testing through ACE/PACES (not grade-based but content area based) and simply went through the results qualitatively with respect to any gaps prior to ~grade 8. And we've been trying to hit those, specifically, prior to starting Tabletclass Pre-Algebra in a couple of weeks. And they're all going easily, but without a curriculum to guide, sometimes I wonder if I'm going too far in some topic areas (i.e., covering what will be covered at that level in Pre-A/Alg or even above).  She also did fine with Math Mammoth (we used the Blue (topical rather than grade level)) for a while but she burned out on that as well. She usually complained about it being "too much" even on easier subjects. She pretty much never missed problems due to lack of understanding, and rarely needed my help to understand the work text instruction. After reading some other threads recently, I wonder if it was "too much on a page" or if it was my lack of skill/knowledge in pruning the work down to a more -appropriate- level (e.g., eliminating some of the earlier/easier instructional pages (e.g., comparing fractions vs. fraction division), or letting her do less of the problems overall (I thought they ALL looked relevant, they were assessing a different aspect of the problem, blah blah blah; I had trouble even letting her do just odds or evens). Maybe a little of both.

 

So anyway, right now I"m pulling instructional videos from KA and from Alcumus. And some problems from Dolciani to check understanding (which had me beginning to wonder if I should just dive into Tabletclass since I'm pulling Pre-A level problems?). I just have a fear of "gaps" IYKWIM? We were trying to plunge ahead in 4th grade with VideoText Algebra (I just LOVED that they go all the way to the beginning, working on the "language of math" and ensuring that they GET the "why" of the earlier math (e.g., why DO we invert and multiply when dividing fractions?). And the logic of progressing through all of Pre-A/Alg 1/Alg 2 in sequence, it just spoke to the mathy part of my brain. I loved it and I have refused to sell it. Yet.)). Anyway, she was fine with it for a while, but then I got tears over some word problems. "I just can't do this! I don't get it!!!" so I say "Okay, well, it's a ratio problem, so..." "What's a ratio?" :banghead:

 

Ooops, I forgot to talk about science.

 

So, we chose to use Supercharged Science and got one of the Mastery kits (it's a dangerous thing having a science loving kid AND a science-loving mom!), and it generally has been great in so many ways. If I make sure she has all of the supplies at hand, she pretty much independently follows the videos and does the experiments, and can articulate the concepts reviewed in the videos (e.g., explaining lift/drag/thrust/gravity in her own words). But if she can't do the projects in order because a part is not there (I'll come back to this), then the independence tanks. Or if a project doesn't work and requires stopping and troubleshooting for any length of time (e.g., electronics/breadboard), I'm more likely to get: "I don't want to do this, it's boring." And she either wants to watch (NOVA) science videos or pull out another bag of supplies and start another subject area. I've tried to ration them and make her finish one before she starts another. Recently we had a part not be there, because I decided to be "interest-led" and let her pick something out of order. And then we didn't have a part because it was in another kit's bag that was scheduled earlier in the sequence so it was assumed that we already had the item..... So then she wanted to just go pick ANOTHER one. And I just can't deal with that many incomplete things. I'm fine with interest-led science (especially after reading some of lewelma's comments/thread) and not following a "curriculum" but this exceeds my tolerance for disorder I'm thinking. Especially without a good reason. If she FINISHED a kit and wanted to keep playing with it while opening another new one, well, that'd be fine....I think....

 

I'm pretty sure that the Montessori background is a factor. And a mild degree of rigidity. And maturity may be playing a part. She likes being good at something/accomplished, even "ahead" but seems to lack that intrinsic drive to consume math or science like I sometimes read about on here. But will do it of her own accord when it's "strewn," at least sometimes. 

 

I'm not sure what I'm asking any more. Empathy? LOL. Encouragement that this is normal? Perhaps ways to go more "Montessori" with all this? Maria Montessori really didn't address math anymore at this age/level. I'm a little too linear of a thinker to go totally unschool-y with all this. We tried being unschool-y at the very beginning and it freaked me out.

 

ETA: Well, perhaps I'm not that linear myself, I just find that I need to have some linearity in order to be able to manage this task. 

 

I think another part of the issue is need for novelty (which I can very much relate to). 

 

 

 

 

[Space station]

Whew!  We have some similar background, so I will just share and hopefully it will be useful.

 

My dd10 (almost 11) was in a Montessori school for 4K-3rd grade (well she skipped 2nd grade, so for a total of 4 years).  Yours sounds like it was more flexible about math curriculum in offering HOE instead of only materials Maria Montessori herself approved.  I pulled her out after 3rd grade because it became painfully obvious that she was just coasting along not being challenged at all.  The year she was home for 4th grade we used a traditional style 5th grade math text (Envision) which was pretty easy for her, but like you said, it is hard to know what they covered or not in Montessori, so I needed to see what she knew (linear-thinker here too :seeya:) .  In 5th grade we joined a charter school that would let us use whatever curricula we wanted at home, as long as we used ALEKS math online to demonstrate progress.  So she used that and covered their 7th grade and Pre-Algebra levels in 5th grade.  What I like about ALEKS is that it does let you know that they have covered all the bases.  It does not seem to be very challenging, but it is good for reassuring me that we have caught and filled in any holes.  While she used this, she also completed HOE and the 5 Fred books Fractions-Pre-Algebra.  She likes Fred because it is fun for her.  We also took some weeks to just read living math books, read about mathematicians, and let her follow interest led math.  At the end of 5th grade (last year) we started AOPS Intro to Algebra and Fred Beginning Algebra, and that is where we are now, as well as doing ALEKS Algebra to show progress.  She does Fred 2 days/wk, AOPS 3 days/wk, & ALEKS once a month.  She watches AOPS videos sometimes, mostly because she loves the AOPS guy.  

 

We have gotten to a point where I feel comfortable that any holes were filled in, she has books that she likes, and is making steady (but slower) progress.  That doesn't mean every day is easy.  We had some tears with Fred yesterday.  Usually she works independently on math and I just check her work, but yesterday was a hand holding day.  (We always do AOPS Challenge problems together on the white board though.)

 

I don't know if sharing our path was helpful.  It has satisfied my linear mind and need to check off boxes, her need to explore math, use fun materials, and be also challenged.

 

Someday, I will hopefully feel like I have a good science path figured out too!  :glare:

 

 

[wapiti]

I'd start by strewing some Vi Hart videos :)

 

Eta, have you tried using Alcumus for actual problems, not the videos?  I bet you could also strew challenging problems - say, for example, that you assign one per day.  You could put it on a single piece of paper (I'd type it up but that's me).  Plan to assign them and then, as happened for you the other day, she just happens to look at it and gets sucked in.  The chicken crossed the road at a 22 degree angle.... LOL

Edited January 12, 2016 by wapiti