For Kinsa

[kiwi3129]

Hi, Kinsa.  I hope you see this.  I don't know if you remember me but I posted almost three years ago about our daughter possibly having a mild intellectual disability.  http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/359160-do-you-have-a-child-diagnosed-with-mild-mr/  Many people answered my post and were very helpful.  I found your posts especially helpful at the time.

 

Here we are almost three years later, and we have a definitive diagnosis of mild intellectual disability.  We just finally got it in May.  It was not what I really wanted to hear, but in many ways it has been a relief and has been freeing.

 

At the time you had made some curriculum suggestions.  Stevenson Reading has ended up being just what we needed.  We are moving through it extremely slowly (we're only on lesson 9 after two years), but she is making progress for the first time.  So I think this one is a keeper for the long-term.

 

Semple Math worked for a little while, but then when it came time to start learning the addition facts she just couldn't do it.  I was wondering if you are still using Semple Math or if you have tried anything else.  For some reason all of dd's challenges (poor working memory, poor sequencing and patterning, etc) show up worse in the area of math.  She's probably still on a pre-kindergarten level of math.  So if you have anything else you've tried I'd love to hear.

 

I was just basically wondering how things are going with you and your son and wanted to tell you thanks so much for all the support back then.  It was nice being able to talk to someone who was dealing with the same things.

[geodob]

Hi Kiwi, you wrote: ' For some reason all of dd's challenges (poor working memory, poor sequencing and patterning, etc) show up worse in the area of math.'

 

Though math and numbers, are something that we concieve of with Spacial thinking.

Where sequencing and pattern thinking, are also concieved of with Spacial thinking.

So that the source of the difficulty is Spacial thinking.

 

It seems that you are looking for anything else, to try for math?

Where perhaps you might like to try a hands on method with her?

Which basically uses the fingers and thumbs.

Where the focus is more with concieving of numbers and math.

 

Perhaps you try doing it, to get an idea of it?

Simply form a fist with your left hand,with your palm facing up.

Then with the this fist, extend your 'little finger'.

Which is of course, 1 finger.

 

Then extend your next finger alongside it?

But with both fingers extended, an important distinction, is whether they are touching each other not?

When they are touching, they can be felt as a 'group' of 2.

But without touching, they aren't felt as a group?

Rather as 1 finger, and 1 finger.

 

If you then extend your next 2 fingers?  

With 4 fingers extended.

With all 4 touching, they can be felt as a group of 4,

But with this group of 4 fingers touching each other?

We can then explore the different math processes?

With the concept of division, as the group of 4 are divided at the middle.

 

So that we have 2 groups of 2.

Then if we 'retract' one group of 2?

They have been subtracted, taken away.

 

If we then extend that other group of 2 again?

We have an addition.

 

Though the essential thing, is that the fingers can be used to concieve of numbers and math.

As a foundation for learning math.

 

But to go beyond 4, the Thumb is used to represent and concieve of a group of 5.

Where the Thumb is distinct from the fingers?

As the brain is actually a 'base 5 system'.

So that it actually first carries after 4, rather than 9.

 

With the thumb as a group of 5, the fingers can be reused/ extended, to count up to 9.

 

10 is carried across to other hand, with the little finger being extended.

 

But the distinction that I would make, is that the focus is more on concieving of math, rather learning math.

Getting a 'feel of math'.

[kiwi3129]

No problem!  I was just thinking of you recently and would love to hear an update.  And to see if you have any new curriculum suggestions!

[kiwi3129]

Hi Kiwi, you wrote: ' For some reason all of dd's challenges (poor working memory, poor sequencing and patterning, etc) show up worse in the area of math.'

 

Though math and numbers, are something that we concieve of with Spacial thinking.

Where sequencing and pattern thinking, are also concieved of with Spacial thinking.

So that the source of the difficulty is Spacial thinking.

 

It seems that you are looking for anything else, to try for math?

Where perhaps you might like to try a hands on method with her?

Which basically uses the fingers and thumbs.

Where the focus is more with concieving of numbers and math.

 

Perhaps you try doing it, to get an idea of it?

Simply form a fist with your left hand,with your palm facing up.

Then with the this fist, extend your 'little finger'.

Which is of course, 1 finger.

 

Then extend your next finger alongside it?

But with both fingers extended, an important distinction, is whether they are touching each other not?

When they are touching, they can be felt as a 'group' of 2.

But without touching, they aren't felt as a group?

Rather as 1 finger, and 1 finger.

 

If you then extend your next 2 fingers?  

With 4 fingers extended.

With all 4 touching, they can be felt as a group of 4,

But with this group of 4 fingers touching each other?

We can then explore the different math processes?

With the concept of division, as the group of 4 are divided at the middle.

 

So that we have 2 groups of 2.

Then if we 'retract' one group of 2?

They have been subtracted, taken away.

 

If we then extend that other group of 2 again?

We have an addition.

 

Though the essential thing, is that the fingers can be used to concieve of numbers and math.

As a foundation for learning math.

 

But to go beyond 4, the Thumb is used to represent and concieve of a group of 5.

Where the Thumb is distinct from the fingers?

As the brain is actually a 'base 5 system'.

So that it actually first carries after 4, rather than 9.

 

With the thumb as a group of 5, the fingers can be reused/ extended, to count up to 9.

 

10 is carried across to other hand, with the little finger being extended.

 

But the distinction that I would make, is that the focus is more on concieving of math, rather learning math.

Getting a 'feel of math'.

 

I appreciate your taking the time to respond.  I'm just not sure this method would work for my daughter either.  As I said in the original post, she has a mild intellectual disability.  Add to that an auditory processing disorder, fine motor delays, ADHD, and several other issues and I think this would be too abstract for her.  The concept of her thumb being a group of 5 or carrying 10 across to the other hand is far beyond where we are right now.  But I do appreciate your suggestion.

 

[kiwi3129]

Thanks so much for the update.  Your year of travels sounds wonderful.  I'm sure that you made many wonderful memories during that year with your family.

 

I am familiar with the book "Teaching Math to People with Down Syndrome and Other Hands-On Learners".  I'm actually considering switching to this.  Our OT has been working a little on introducing the Touch Math concept.  DD is making some progress on that.  Right now they are only using numbers 1 through 5.  I'm really thinking at this point focusing more on functional math may be the best route to go with her.  She still can't consistently write her numbers.  She'll do weird things like say "5" but then write 2.  She just has a lot of processing glitches.  The OT has her working on writing 1-50 in sequence, which is going okay.  She can't consistently read a two digit number correctly.  I just remembered one thing that really hung us up on Semple Math.  The concept "one more" means nothing to her.  And if I remember correctly (we haven't done Semple Math in a while) that concept is how they teach the +1 facts.  The OT has worked and worked on this with her and she just isn't getting it.  In general, things come and go with her, which makes it really difficult.  I'm sure you probably know what I'm talking about.  They seem to have it one day and then the next day it's like you've never done it before.

 

We're going to definitely stick with Stevenson Reading.  Sometimes I feel like it's one step forward and two steps back (and no I didn't type that wrong!), but I'm going to stick with it.  In reading her lack of ability to generalize hurts us big time.  We're still on the peanut butter and jelly friends words.  She'll get to where she's reading a combo pretty well ("oa" for instance), but then when I introduce a new combo ("ai" for instance) it's almost like we're completely starting over.  She doesn't translate the concept of the first vowel says it's sound to the new combo like a kid with an ID probably would.

 

We also use HWOT.  She has actually finished the printing books.  I just have her do copywork now to keep practicing her skills.  She can't do any writing that isn't copywork or dictated letter by letter to her.  This has a lot to do with her low reading level of course.  If I can get her reading level up I think she will be able to write more.  The biggest thing that hurts us on her penmanship is her ADHD.  She thinks she has to do everything at breakneck speed, and so it's often very sloppy as far as letter size, letter and word spacing, etc.  The writing book you mentioned sounds excellent and I will definitely be looking for it.  I have been at a loss as how I was ever going to introduce actually composing anything with her, but this sounds like exactly what we need.

 

The life skills book sounds excellent too.  I know that there is going to be a limit to what academic level she will be able to attain and that I need to make sure we're working on life skills too.  So thanks for both the recommendations.

 

I'll also look for the puberty book.  We have discussed some things very basically because she has been developing for a while.  As with all things, I'm not always sure she really understands.  I'll think she does then she'll say something one day that makes me realize she doesn't.  A book written specifically for our kids would be very helpful.

 

I think I have for the most part accepted the situation.  I still have my days when I'm sad or when I worry about what the future holds for her.  I love her to death, but it is definitely difficult.  Even our psychologist, who has many years of experience in the field, said he has never really seen a child with an ID quite like her.  Her overall IQ fell into the mild ID range.  She had two subareas that were so high that they were right at the borderline range, but then she had one subarea that was so low that it was almost in the moderate range.  So she's just a hard kid to figure out.  Our speech/language therapist and our occupational therapist (both also with many years of experience) have both also said they've never seen any other child quite like her.  So I try not to beat myself up too hard that I can't always figure her out either!

 

We definitely plan on looking into ARC.  Since getting the diagnosis we have also learned of two camps (one a week-long day camp and one a week-long sleepaway camp) that she can attend. and we also learned about a sports league for kids with special needs.  She did the day camp this past summer and loved it.  It has helped seeing her happily involved in activities, and it has also helped being around other parents who face similar challenges.

 

Thanks again so much for the update and the additional recommendations.  I look forward to discussing things with you more in the future.   

 

 

[geodob]

WIth the method I described, the thumb as a group of 5. Is introduced later.

Where first, 0 to 4 needs to established.

Though this is focused more on developing a way to 'concieve' of numbers, rather than learning numbers.

So that numbers are 'felt'.

But perhaps I could ask you to try it yourself?

Simply form a fist with your left hand.

Palm facing up.

 

Then extend your little finger.

 

Then extend the next finger alongside it.

But the crucial thing here, is that both extended fingers are 'touching each other'.

Where pressed against each other, they would feel like a 'group'.

Which is lost, if you spread those fingers apart?

 

Then extend the next finger alongside the others, to form a larger group,

Where we have 'Added' a finger, to form a larger group.

Which has 'More' fingers.

If you then 'take one finger away?

You have 'Subtracted' it from the group.

So that the group now has 'Less' fingers.

 

But then, extend all fingers to form a group.

We can then do  a  'Division', and spread them apart at the middle.

To form equal sized groups, on each side.

So that Division is felt.

 

Though the focus is with developing a way to concieve of numbers and math processes.

 

[kiwi3129]

Done!  I'll try to remember to do that to any future posts, but I can't promise you won't have to remind me!  :laugh: