Talk me into or out of BA

[silver]

My son isn't super accelerated--he's slightly less than a year ahead in math. But I figure this board will best know how to meet his needs.

 

AoPS really appeals to me. Right now, I'm pretty set to at least try it when it's time to see if it's a good fit for my children.

 

We're using MM dark blue (the topical series) to roughly match the same sections taught in the grade level series. I've been covering my eyes and ignoring BA, telling myself, "We're still in 2nd grade math, I don't need to think about it." Well, we will soon be ready for 3rd grade math here. I figure that even if I don't choose BA, I should start to think about how to prepare him for AoPS later on.

 

I love MM. I love the conceptual teaching. I love the incremental steps. But it's really easy for my son. He doesn't have to work to get through it. Some days we do an entire week's worth of math in one day. I hesitate to accelerate him too much because my husband is pretty set on our kids going to a B&M school for high school. I worry that if he's too accelerated, he'll wind up finishing the traditional HS math sequence before senior year and his school won't know what to do with him. But at the same time, I want him to have to actually think during math. I want him to learn how to persevere through a hard problem. I want him to have to learn to study math. ETA: Just ignore that. I was trying to add this in as a reason for using BA--it would give him depth and slow him down. I didn't have this in here to start a debate about the ability of public schools to handle highly accelerated students.

 

Right now we're doing more than a week's worth of MM during the first part of the week and then we're doing "puzzle math" on the last day. The puzzle math has been Borac, HOE, Dragonbox, and some of the more interesting problems from MEP Y2. The puzzle math we've been doing whets his appetite, and sometimes he does need to think, but often it's just a fun little mind game for him without too much challenge.

 

So, you're probably saying, "Silver, you've just written an essay about why you should switch to BA. What's your problem?" One is that if we do the books at a 3-month pace (we school year round, so that sounds reasonable) and they continue at a 6+ month pace for putting out new books, we might finish 5C before 5D is available (depending on how much over 6 months/book they may get). Another is the cost. I already own MM dark blue, and it was super cheap for those 6 years of material. So $100 for just one year, especially since it's not a one time cost (younger siblings would need new workbooks), seems like a lot. Of course, another plus is that it's cheaper to try 1 quarter of BA to see if my son even likes it that it would be to try AoPS PreA and have it bomb.

 

So there you go. Talk me into or out of BA. And if you're talking me out of it, what should I do to prepare my son for AoPS PreA?

[wapiti]

I hesitate to accelerate him too much because my husband is pretty set on our kids going to a B&M school for high school. I worry that if he's too accelerated, he'll wind up finishing the traditional HS math sequence before senior year and his school won't know what to do with him. 

 

This is not a good reason to avoid acceleration.  Most high schools are accustomed to having students in various levels of math.  It's a non-problem and you can cross that bridge when you come to it.

 

But at the same time, I want him to have to actually think during math. I want him to learn how to persevere through a hard problem. I want him to have to learn to study math.

 

This is important.  You are on the right track IMO.

 

we might finish 5C before 5D is available

 

This is too far away to be of concern, IMO.  You're talking about one single set of workbooks, a quarter of a level.  If there's an essential topic lurking in there, you'd cover that with other resources (say, from your MM topic books) and if there isn't, you'd simply move on to AoPS Prealgebra.  Put another way, if you don't use BA, do you suppose you'll end up at AoPS Prealgebra even sooner?

 

Of course, another plus is that it's cheaper to try 1 quarter of BA to see if my son even likes it that it would be to try AoPS PreA and have it bomb.

 

IMO, it would not be remotely equivalent to decide on AoPS Preaglebra based on a trial with BA 2-3 yrs earlier.

[silver]

This is not a good reason to avoid acceleration.  Most high schools are accustomed to having students in various levels of math.  It's a non-problem and you can cross that bridge when you come to it.

 

This is good to know. Although most of my reason for mentioning acceleration concerns is that I think BA would slow him down, and thus slow his pace/acceleration some.

 

 

This is too far away to be of concern, IMO.  You're talking about one single set of workbooks, a quarter of a level.  If there's an essential topic lurking in there, you'd cover that with other resources (say, from your MM topic books) and if there isn't, you'd simply move on to AoPS Prealgebra.  Put another way, if you don't use BA, do you suppose you'll end up at AoPS Prealgebra even sooner?

 

It's not that I want to get there sooner with MM or something. It's the whole "What do I do when it's done, but he's not ready for PreA yet?" Would he be willing to go back to MM after using BA? He's content doing MM, not knowing the other options out there. But would he still be willing to do it after spending almost three years using BA?

 

 

IMO, it would not be remotely equivalent to decide on AoPS Preaglebra based on a trial with BA 2-3 yrs earlier.

 

Good point. Abilities, tolerance levels, maturity, etc changes. I could see a 7-year-old not enjoying BA, but still enjoying the challenge of AoPS PreA in 7th grade.

[kiana]

It's not that I want to get there sooner with MM or something. It's the whole "What do I do when it's done, but he's not ready for PreA yet?" Would he be willing to go back to MM after using BA? He's content doing MM, not knowing the other options out there. But would he still be willing to do it after spending almost three years using BA?

 

Honestly, I would worry about that when the time comes. If he's not ready for AOPS pre-algebra after BA, he should be ready for one of the many other options that are out there. I know some people have used Jousting Armadillos and others have used TabletClass as a bridge to AOPS -- in some cases to Algebra and in some cases to Pre-Algebra.

 

With respect to the acceleration, there are a LOT of options available other than plowing through the standard high school curriculum faster. Any reasonable high school should be accustomed to students who have completed algebra 1 and geometry in middle school (this is a fairly standard accelerated track) and once those are completed there are so many other options for enrichment. The AOPS number theory/C+P books are one possible enrichment, but there's also mathematical logic, set theory, advanced geometry, game theory/voting theory (there are math for liberal arts textbooks for these which are very interesting and require minimal algebra), statistics, and many other options.

[sunnyday]

I think that a child who has skill in arithmetic and does well in traditional hand-holding math programs, DESERVES to get a taste of actual mathematics early. Long before he starts thinking that math is about showing you can get the right answers, or that he's getting right answers because he's inherently Good at Math, or that it's praiseworthy to be doing "second grade math" in first grade.

[wapiti]

It's not that I want to get there sooner with MM or something. It's the whole "What do I do when it's done, but he's not ready for PreA yet?" Would he be willing to go back to MM after using BA? He's content doing MM, not knowing the other options out there. But would he still be willing to do it after spending almost three years using BA?

 

When he's done with MM, he will be ready for prealgebra.  Whether he's ready for AoPS Prealgebra is a different question, but by and large, if he's done with the topics of, say, MM6, he will be more than ready for prealgebra.

 

I think you are overthinking the concern about having to go back to MM or other resource if the very last quarter of BA5 isn't out yet.

 

From what I've read here, you might even do part or all of MM3 before moving to BA.  Or combine them.

[silver]

The advanced math students in public school was not meant to be the topic of my thread here. I want to talk about BA. It's been determined that I shouldn't worry about the release schedule. So that leaves the cost.

Is what BA offers so much better than what I'm currently doing with my son that it is worth the $300 extra I'd be spending on math between now and PreA? If it's not worth it, what options do I have to keep with MM and still challenge him and get him ready for AoPS PreA?

[wapiti]

Of course there are ways to prepare for AoPS Prealgebra without BA.  You are correct that MM is very economical (we used MM before AoPS).  You could add more problem solving supplements along the way, if you want - I would look for contest problems, like the MOEMS books, though there are loads of options. Some other threads on what people have used before AoPS Prealgebra:

 

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/454071-best-math-curriculum-before-aops/

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/524843-what-to-use-before-aops-pre-algebra/

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/524536-did-you-use-singapore-us-or-stds-before-aops/

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/343185-lof-pre-algebra-before-aops/

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/334702-how-much-math-before-aops-prealgebra/

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/475221-moving-from-math-mammoth-to-aops-when-to-switch-over/

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/465971-what-did-your-child-take-the-year-before-they-did-aops-pre-algebra-is-mm5-enough-prep/

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/425050-if-you-wanted-to-use-aops/

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/355037-mep-question-does-mep-year-6-prepare-for-aops/

 

Also search both this and the k-8 board for Beast threads.  I have what has been published of BA so far and it is really cool to see how well certain BA topics lead into the corresponding topics in AoPS Prealgebra (which I've been through three times so far) - that's not to say that it's absolutely necessary, just really cool  :). I don't think I can comment further on whether it's "worth it" except to say that it's very different from anything I've seen.

 

[ErinE]

My DS moved beyond BA3 before the fourth level came out so he worked through MM5 with a quick run through of MM6. He's now finishing up AoPS Pre-Algebra.

 

I'm not familiar with the levels of BA beyond 3A-D, but I would consider it more a supplement than a core curriculum. If you're concerned about cost and purchasing new workbooks later, I'd recommend Zaccaro's problem solving books or some other non-consumable programs that you can use for later children.

[mathnerd]

My DS moved beyond BA3 before the fourth level came out so he worked through MM5 with a quick run through of MM6. He's now finishing up AoPS Pre-Algebra.

 

I'm not familiar with the levels of BA beyond 3A-D, but I would consider it more a supplement than a core curriculum. If you're concerned about cost and purchasing new workbooks later, I'd recommend Zaccaro's problem solving books or some other non-consumable programs that you can use for later children.

 

I agree with Erin. We have found BA to be a supplement (a very fun supplement) but not a full fledged curriculum. We used SM and MEP along with BA. So, if cost is an issue, you can selectively buy the BA books that your DS might like as a supplement while staying with MM. And then move on to AOPS PA when the timing is right for him.

[jar7709]

During the period it is in use here, we use BA as the only/main math. Neither of my kids begs for math, and it is sold enough for us. DS did all the BA3 books and then switched back to MM... I think MM is a better approach for him, actually. DD is in BA 3B now and I will probably keep her using them until she outpaces their release schedule. Seems to fit her style better.

[Alice]

For us, BA has been worth the cost. We use it as a supplement along with Singapore. My oldest only did a few of the 3 levels (I think through 3C) because it wasn't out yet when he was at that point. I had him go back and do BA as sort of a review along with Singapore and he loved it, it was "fun math". He's fairly good at Math although he's not a kid who absolutely loves math. He's doing AOPS Pre-Algebra now and really liking the approach. 

 

My second son sees himself as being bad at math, thinks he hates math, thinks math is boring, thinks anything that is any kind of traditional school is boring, wants to just play with Legos or the dog all day. He really likes BA and for him what it's doing is giving him the idea that math can be kind of fun and that he isn't "bad" at math. He's just bad when he's bored. :)

 

It hasn't been necessary for either my kids but I think it's been worth it. 

 

We've only just started AOPS so I can't really say fully, but my oldest seems well-prepared from Singapore. I'm not sure how much BA prepares them for AOPS, maybe more in the upper levels of BA. They seem like VERY different styles though so I could easily see a kid liking and responding to one and not at all to the other. 

[Crimson Wife]

Is what BA offers so much better than what I'm currently doing with my son that it is worth the $300 extra I'd be spending on math between now and PreA?

I would say yes, provided that you are able to find the money in your budget without going into debt.

[silver]

I've got a question about the samples of the practice books. Are they representative of the rest of the books? Or are they simpler than typical sections?

[Lisa in the UP of MI]

I think it depends on the student if BA is worth it or even a good idea.  For my oldest dd it has been absolutely perfect.  She learned pretty well with a combination of RightStart and Singapore PM but she did not like it.  I'm glad for the foundation she received from those two curricula but using BA has been the best thing for dd.  She loves how BA teaches concepts, she loves how she doesn't have to do lots and lots of problems that are too easy for her, and as a bonus she loves the comic story.  Many students need the repetition and review that most other curricula provide.  If your student is like that, you would probably have to supplement BA.

 

We are currently waiting for the next book to come out, so we are using a combination of MEP and LOF.

[sunnyday]

I think the samples are pretty representative. In 3A and 3B, there are easier and harder sections, but most sections range from easy to challenging the way the samples do.

[CardinalAlt]

Is BA worth it? It's pretty great. Depends on your kid and how you envision using it.

 

We're only in 3A, but my DD7 looks forward to BA in a way she doesn't her Miquon work. I think where we're at in Miquon lately has more rote practice, where BA always has that game-like feel, even where it's challenging. She absolutely retains what we're doing. It's encouraging her to deal with challenge more and more.

 

I'm actually trying to slow down a little in Miquon, do less each day by about half, to make sure she's really understanding, not just pressing forward, so that gives room in the schedule for BA. Since she's a little "ahead" in math, I'm not worried about any particular pace in either book, just making progress with more rather less enjoyment. I doubt we'll get through more than two books this year.

 

We also do a little Zaccaro. So Miquon is more the spine with the others as supplements... Occasionally we do a full Miquon break. When I did that last year for a month, she went twice as fast in Miquon once we came back to it - some understanding had consolidated, I think. Anyway, the hodgepodge is working for us and keeping math fun and interesting.