AOPS pace

[ecmom45]

Do you do all questions in AOPS including the challenging questions? I found it impossible to cover all in one year if we do that. What is your experience? 
THanks. 

[regentrude]

Which text?

DD completed Intro to Algebra in one year and did, if I recall correctly, most of the problems.

DS took two years, spread out over the course of three school years, with a semester detour into C&P..

It covers more than a traditional algebra 1 course, so there is no need to complete it in one year.

[EndOfOrdinary]

I normally plan two books over three years. There is no real pace for the books. They are not traditional curriculum that is designed to be paced out over a week/semester/year. The topics do not align in this way either. Algebra covers significantly more than Algebra one, but not all of Algebra two. Geometry is much the same. They are not designed to be graded on a standard system, either. They just aren't standard.

 

Counting and Probability and Number Theory are half the size of Algebra. Intermediate Algebra is twice the size of Calculus. The books are designed to cover the topics. They are to be done in as much time as it takes to do them.

 

You might just drive yourself crazy trying to box them.

[Dmmetler]

We go at whatever pace DD sets, with a plan of spending 60 minutes a day on math. Sometimes, that's a lesson and exercises, sometimes that's two lessons and exercises or more, sometimes, that's a single problem.

 

I will also say that if she's not feeling good, or if she's overly stressed, I've been known to put AOPS aside and pull out something else, because sometimes, AOPS is more than either of us can take on a given day (DD had a frog she'd raised from an egg die Thursday, for example-and that was a reason, in my book, to let AOPS Algebra rest a bit).

 

So far, Pre-Algebra took right at 9 months. I don't know how long Intro to Algebra will take. The only concern I have about it stretching into a 2nd year is that I'm not sure what to call it the 2nd year for benefit of transcript, since the only students who take Algebra 1 over 2 years would normally be those who fail it the first time around.

[wapiti]

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Edited September 15, 2016 by wapiti

[Mike in SA]

We go at whatever pace DD sets, with a plan of spending 60 minutes a day on math. Sometimes, that's a lesson and exercises, sometimes that's two lessons and exercises or more, sometimes, that's a single problem.

 

I will also say that if she's not feeling good, or if she's overly stressed, I've been known to put AOPS aside and pull out something else, because sometimes, AOPS is more than either of us can take on a given day (DD had a frog she'd raised from an egg die Thursday, for example-and that was a reason, in my book, to let AOPS Algebra rest a bit).

 

So far, Pre-Algebra took right at 9 months. I don't know how long Intro to Algebra will take. The only concern I have about it stretching into a 2nd year is that I'm not sure what to call it the 2nd year for benefit of transcript, since the only students who take Algebra 1 over 2 years would normally be those who fail it the first time around.

 

Same here.  We do all the problems, plus Alcumus.  Typically, it's a section per day.  Sometimes, a section takes 3-4 days.  Frequently the review or challenge sections take at least 2 days each.  Overall, the pace is very similar to what AoPS has for their online courses, but I wouldn't be surprised to take half that long or twice that long, depending on how the concepts are clicking, and how strong or weak the foundation is for the topic at hand.

 

We do adjust the time commitment to DS's energy level.  He decides how long he wants to work at something, provided that he at least gives his brain a workout.  Sometimes we have to tell him to stop, but we are fortunate in that we rarely have to push him to go forward.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

When we do the text ourselves, and not with a live class, we do all the problems and alcumus.

[Dmmetler]

Colleges need not see on the high school transcript how many years it took when those years are all prior to high school. I must be missing something? (Eta, FWIW, my dd's middle school teaches algebra 1 over two years and, while not necessarily very common, not all that unusual either. As she will attend a different private high school, algebra 1 won't be on her transcript anyway.)

 

If she doesn't go until college, yes-we'd simply have it on "courses completed before high school". But if she should decide to go for a magnet high school, I'd need to supply a middle school transcript. 

[regentrude]

If she doesn't go until college, yes-we'd simply have it on "courses completed before high school". But if she should decide to go for a magnet high school, I'd need to supply a middle school transcript. 

 

AoPS Intro to Algebra covers more than a traditional algebra 1 course.

Give "Algebra 1" credit for chapters 1 through 13 or 14, and call the second half of the book "Intro to Algebra 2" or "Advanced topics in algebra 1"  or "Algebra 2A" - or  award credit for "Algebra 2" as soon as your student has completed the algebra 2 portion of Intermediate Algebra.

[wapiti]

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Edited September 15, 2016 by wapiti

[Roadrunner]

AoPS Intro to Algebra covers more than a traditional algebra 1 course.

Give "Algebra 1" credit for chapters 1 through 13 or 14, and call the second half of the book "Intro to Algebra 2" or "Advanced topics in algebra 1" or "Algebra 2A" - or award credit for "Algebra 2" as soon as your student has completed the algebra 2 portion of Intermediate Algebra.

Do you know which chapters need to be completed from the Intermediate Algebra book in addition to Intro to Algebra to cover traditional Algebra 1 and 2?

[regentrude]

Do you know which chapters need to be completed from the Intermediate Algebra book in addition to Intro to Algebra to cover traditional Algebra 1 and 2?

 

Hard to say, since it varies so widely what constitutes "traditional" Algebra 2 - some programs don't even cover quadratics until algebra 2. It also depends what you plan to cover in precalculus.

Algebra 2 would definitely cover polynomials, so chapters 6-9.

Exponentials,  logarithms and rational functions are usually covered in alg 2, but not as thoroughly.

 

It's not something I have ever bothered giving any thought. I let my kids work through the books, cut out some chapters I consider not important for their math goals, and, for the sake of making the transcript transparent, give one credit when each book is completed. So, mine get "algebra 1" credit for Intro and "algebra 2" credit for Intermediate - even though AoPS does not line up well with traditional programs.

It does not matter. Nobody who looks at the transcript will give a hoot about what topic has been covered when - as long as the student's test scores verify his math preparedness.

[JenneinCA]

My ten year old is doing AOPS pre algebra this year and we are going very slow. Right now he reading and doing the problems on one day and then doing the exercises on the next day. This takes about an hour on the first day and about half an hour on the second day. At this rate he will be in this book a long time, but that is okay with me.

[MarkT]

Typical Algebra 1 text for comparison:
Larson et al Common Core edition

 

Chapter 1 Solving Linear Equations
1.1 Solving Simple Equations
1.2 Solving Multi-Step Equations
1.3 Solving Equations with Variables on Both Sides
Ext. Solving Absolute Value Equations
1.4 Rewriting Equations and Formulas

Chapter 2 Graphing and Writing Linear Equations
2.1 Graphing Linear Equations
2.2 Slope of a Line
Ext. Slopes of Parallel and Perpendicular Lines
2.3 Graphing Linear Equations in Slope-Intercept Form
2.4 Graphing Linear Equations in Standard Form
2.5 Writing Equations in Slope-Intercept Form
2.6 Writing Equations in Point-Slope Form
Ext. Writing Equations of Parallel and Perpendicular Lines
2.7 Solving Real-Life Problems

Chapter 3 Solving Linear Inequalities
3.1 Writing and Graphing Inequalities
3.2 Solving Inequalities Using Addition or Subtraction
3.3 Solving Inequalities Using Multiplication or Division
3.4 Solving Multi-Step Inequalities
Ext. Solving Compound Inequalities
3.5 Graphing Linear Inequalities in Two Variables

Chapter 4 Solving Systems of Linear Equations
4.1 Solving Systems of Linear Equations by Graphing
4.2 Solving Systems of Linear Equations by Substitution
4.3 Solving Systems of Linear Equations by Elimination
4.4 Special Systems of Linear Equations
Ext. Solving Linear Equations by Graphing
4.5 Systems of Linear Inequalities

Chapter 5 Linear Functions
5.1 Domain and Range of a Function
Ext. Relations and Functions
5.2 Discrete and Continuous Domains
5.3 Linear Function Patterns
5.4 Function Notation
Ext. Special Functions
5.5 Comparing Linear and Nonlinear Functions
5.6 Arithmetic Sequences

Chapter 6 Exponential Equations and Functions
6.1 Properties of Square Roots
Ext. Real Number Operations
6.2 Properties of Exponents
6.3 Radicals and Rational Exponents
6.4 Exponential Functions
Ext. Solving Exponential Equations
6.5 Exponential Growth
6.6 Exponential Decay
6.7 Geometric Sequences
Ext. Recursively-Defined Sequences

Chapter 7 Polynomial Equations and Factoring
7.1 Polynomials
7.2 Adding and Subtracting Polynomials
7.3 Multiplying Polynomials
7.4 Special Products of Polynomials
7.5 Solving Polynomial Equations in Factored Form
7.6 Factoring Polynomials Using the GCF
7.7 Factoring x2 + bx + c
7.8 Factoring ax2 + bx + c
7.9 Factoring Special Products
Ext. Factoring Polynomials Completely

Chapter 8 Graphing Quadratic Functions
8.1 Graphing y = ax2
8.2 Focus of a Parabola
8.3 Graphing y = ax2 + c
8.4 Graphing y = ax2 + bx + c
Ext. Graphing y = a(x − h)2 + k
8.5 Comparing Linear, Exponential, and Quadratic Functions
Ext. Comparing Graphs of Functions

Chapter 9 Solving Quadratic Equations
9.1 Solving Quadratic Equations by Graphing
9.2 Solving Quadratic Equations Using Square Roots
9.3 Solving Quadratic Equations by Completing the Square
9.4 Solving Quadratic Equations Using the Quadratic Formula
Ext. Choosing a Solution Method
9.5 Solving Systems of Linear and Quadratic Equations

Chapter 10 Square Root Functions and Geometry
10.1 Graphing Square Root Functions
Ext. Rationalizing the Denominator
10.2 Solving Square Root Equations
10.3 The Pythagorean Theorem
10.4 Using the Pythagorean Theorem

Chapter 11 Rational Equations and Functions
11.1 Direct and Inverse Variation
11.2 Graphing Rational Functions
Ext. Inverse of a Function
11.3 Simplifying Rational Expressions
11.4 Multiplying and Dividing Rational Expressions
11.5 Dividing Polynomials
11.6 Adding and Subtracting Rational Expressions
11.7 Solving Rational Equations

Chapter 12 Data Analysis and Displays
12.1 Measures of Central Tendency
12.2 Measures of Dispersion
12.3 Box-and-Whisker Plots
12.4 Shapes of Distributions
12.5 Scatter Plots and Lines of Fit
12.6 Analyzing Lines of Fit
12.7 Two-Way Tables
12.8 Choosing a Data Display

[texasmama]

Following along. :)

[lewelma]

My older started off slowly and increased speed. 

3 years for the intro algebra,

1.25 years for geometry,

5 months for both intro number theory and intro counting,

and then 4 classes this calendar year (the NZ school year Jan-Dec)- intermediate number theory, intermediate algebra, intermediate counting, intermediate geometry (using UKMT book recommended by AoPS as they don't have intermediate geo yet)

 

When my son was working through the books independently, he did all the challengers.  Since starting the classes this year, he just does what is assigned.

 

At least for my kid, he needed to go at a pace that was right for him.  That pace changed over time.  Adapt. Adapt. Adapt.

 

Ruth in NZ

[texasmama]

This thread is very helpful for me.

 

My boys both started Intro to Algebra this year.  I have one son who will likely be transitioning to a university model school next year for math and science only (his 9th grade year).  He will be taking geometry using a public school text.  (Holt McDougal)  If I have him work through Chapter 14 of Intro to Algebra, should he be well-prepared for a traditional geometry course?  The answer seems to be "yes", but I don't have room for error with this kid. 

 

Other son (ds11) will likely continue on the AoPS path at home, as he is much more suited to the program.

[Jill]

My 12 yr old ds is working on Intro to Algebra. We did some of the PreAlgebra over a year ago but picked and chose because he had also done EPGY pre-algebra a couple years ago. It will likely take him about 1 to 1.5 years to complete Intro to Algebra and this is *without* doing Challenge problems. I generally let him work along at his own pace by watching the videos, reading the section and then working the exercises. The Review exercises can take a week for him, again, without the Challenge problems. I tend to supplement a bit with some other practice work when he struggles and I have found it difficult to find good supplements because AoPS is a real *thinker's* program and so many aren't. There are sometimes not enough practice problems for him to develop concepts confidence, so then I might have another week of extra practice (this week it's "Mixture Word Problems" courtesy of math-aids.com.) That's just our example of pace for an accelerated but maybe not highly gifted math student.

[EndOfOrdinary]

This thread is very helpful for me.

 

My boys both started Intro to Algebra this year.  I have one son who will likely be transitioning to a university model school next year for math and science only (his 9th grade year).  He will be taking geometry using a public school text.  (Holt McDougal)  If I have him work through Chapter 14 of Intro to Algebra, should he be well-prepared for a traditional geometry course?  The answer seems to be "yes", but I don't have room for error with this kid. 

 

Other son (ds11) will likely continue on the AoPS path at home, as he is much more suited to the program.

 

I would think your Ds will be quite prepared.  In my years of teaching high school math, geometry was always a bit rocky at first.  It has nothing to do with how prepared kids were (though, those who had a good algebra foundation caught on much quicker). The entire course concepts are just so different.  Since the idea is to visualize the math, the level of abstraction comes from a totally different place than the level of abstraction needed to be able to find x.

 

The critical thinking and learning how you personally learn that comes from AoPS will mostlikely put him far and above the other kids.  Moreover, proof based Algebra doesn't exist in many places anymore.  The nature of AoPS should greatly help with the concepts of proof based Geometry (which he may or may not have right away, but will definitely move into if he continues with math).  Understanding the idea of explaining yourself and your thoughts with math terminology was always a leap for so many kids.  Your son will have been doing this already with AoPS, so he should take right to it.

[texasmama]

I would think your Ds will be quite prepared.  In my years of teaching high school math, geometry was always a bit rocky at first.  It has nothing to do with how prepared kids were (though, those who had a good algebra foundation caught on much quicker). The entire course concepts are just so different.  Since the idea is to visualize the math, the level of abstraction comes from a totally different place than the level of abstraction needed to be able to find x.

 

The critical thinking and learning how you personally learn that comes from AoPS will mostlikely put him far and above the other kids.  Moreover, proof based Algebra doesn't exist in many places anymore.  The nature of AoPS should greatly help with the concepts of proof based Geometry (which he may or may not have right away, but will definitely move into if he continues with math).  Understanding the idea of explaining yourself and your thoughts with math terminology was always a leap for so many kids.  Your son will have been doing this already with AoPS, so he should take right to it.

Thank you.  This is reassuring.

 

As I state over and over on this board, math is a significant weakness for me and always has been so I feel my way blind in many ways with my kids.  I appreciate the mathy people on this board more than you all know.  :)

[Arcadia]

The prealgebra book took close to a year. The intro to algebra would have taken a year except we detour to the intro to geometry book and finish the first 5 chapters for summer. So now we are finishing intro to algebra.

 

He will be taking geometry using a public school text. (Holt McDougal) If I have him work through Chapter 14 of Intro to Algebra, should he be well-prepared for a traditional geometry course?

He'll be okay :) just get him some color pencils/markers/highlighters for geometry because it does comes in usual. I find having at least 3 colors useful for geometry.

 

Holt Geometry online book so you can see it's the traditional public school textbook style.

http://dragonometry.net/geometry/geometry_holt_pages.php

 

Two of the libraries I go to has the Holt geometry book in the teens reference section.

[texasmama]

The prealgebra book took close to a year. The intro to algebra would have taken a year except we detour to the intro to geometry book and finish the first 5 chapters for summer. So now we are finishing intro to algebra.

 

He'll be okay :) just get him some color pencils/markers/highlighters for geometry because it does comes in usual. I find having at least 3 colors useful for geometry.

 

Holt Geometry online book so you can see it's the traditional public school textbook style.

http://dragonometry.net/geometry/geometry_holt_pages.php

 

Two of the libraries I go to has the Holt geometry book in the teens reference section.

Thanks for the link and the info.  Due to your post, it occurs to me that it would behoove me to get my hands on a copy of this book.  This is my kid who does not do change so moving into Geometry AND starting a completely different style of book could be an issue.  If we decide to outsource math next year, I think I will get the book next summer and work through a chapter or two with him.  Better overprepared and bored at the beginning than overwhelmed and shut down with this son.  That would really raise his confidence level, too.  I like it.  :)

[MarkT]

Holt Geometry online book so you can see it's the traditional public school textbook style.

http://dragonometry.net/geometry/geometry_holt_pages.php

 

Two of the libraries I go to has the Holt geometry book in the teens reference section.

 

Holt McDougal now since the companies were bought out.  I believe that her son may use the Common Core edition, If it is labeled Holt McDougal.

 

[texasmama]

Holt McDougal now since the companies were bought out.  I believe that her son may use the Common Core edition, If it is labeled Holt McDougal.

 

Thanks, Mark!

 

I plan to make a visit to the school sometime this fall to ask questions, and I will ask to see the specific book being used.

[Arcadia]

I plan to make a visit to the school sometime this fall to ask questions, and I will ask to see the specific book being used.

Ask if your son can loan out the school textbooks at the beginning of Summer 2015 for Fall 2015. Some high schools allow their students to borrow the textbooks from school for the summer holidays.

[texasmama]

Ask if your son can loan out the school textbooks at the beginning of Summer 2015 for Fall 2015. Some high schools allow their students to borrow the textbooks from school for the summer holidays.

Even better. Will do. :)

[daijobu]

Do you do all questions in AOPS including the challenging questions? 

 

Yes.  Otherwise I feel like we aren't getting our money's worth.