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Focusing an Autodidact


SierraNevada
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DS6.5 is impossible to teach! I feel frustrated at the start of the year once again as anything I attempt to do with him is met with disinterest. Partly I feel that I am to blame as I don't run a very structured life and never have and he has always easily directed our family life as he is an only. Partly I feel that it is DS's personality to attempt to control everything and partly I feel that he is a natural autodidact and he learns what he wants when he wants (and does a great job at it). But he is not teachable, and I feel that it to at least some degree is an important trait to be able to take direction. Sure he does plenty of leaning in the course of a day on his own-- but zero of that is directed by me. As in, if I tell him to please do this chapter or worksheet or write something, he will refuse. Whereas if it is an idea he has come up with on his own he will slave away. I love the fact that he is into learning for his own sake, but I'm getting annoyed that I seem to have lost all power in this relationship. It's not that I want him to learn more, it's just that I want to have some part in the direction it takes. I want him to do something if I ask. And yes, it is a problem is all areas of our life, not just school. I just have a kid whose personality seems to overthrow my more laid back personality and he has figured out how to capitalize in that. So how do I take charge without taking his own drive out of him? How do I lead this kid?

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It is clear that you have issues but are you sure you want to deal with it as a HS issue? Educationally you guys seem to be doing great... maybe not doing what *you* want or doing as well as ideally possible... but still doing great. I would look at where rigidity and non-compliance are most disruptive to your family routines and attack that problem rather than working on the issues on the HS side and hoping it transfers to a broader context.

 

My DS7 is somewhat similar... For HS we been very unschooly/interest-led. In Kindergarten the only required subject was reading, which only required daily silent reading, and he went from reading "Henry and Mudge" to "The Hobbit". Last year in 1st the only required subject was math. He covered MEP1-3, Miquon Red/Orange/Blue/Green, and CWP3 and other stuff. This year our focus is on writing. In the last year, DS has been loosely guided to do a huge American Revolution/Colonial history study, done a long term siege weapon project, and spent ~3 months working on codes and ciphers(which involved Martin Gardner's book, Top Secret, parts of the 1st chapter of EM, Parts of the MEP y7 codes unit, etc etc). He loves being shown things by me but refuses to take instruction. We compromise and I require 30-60m a day on what ever our yearly focus is. Each year he is more willing to take instruction or suggestions in other areas. On this trajectory, I am not worried about high school or college. His interests overlap with academics so it should not be a problem.

 

On the home side, DS7's rigidity and opposition are a larger problem. Especially as it impacts DS5. We have chosen to focus on daily routines, flexibility, helping out with common tasks, etc as a larger non-negotiable issues. This allows us to separate the character/psych issues and educational issues. Overloading Hsing with these broader behavioral issues would be a disaster in our house.

 

ETA: Every year pre-school forward, the balance of time spent on academics vs behavioral issues has shifted. In the Preschool years, we did no academics and merely worked on behavior. This year in 2nd, I hope it will be ~3/4 academics ~1/4 behavior. We'll see how that goes...

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Perhaps sitting down with some options and allowing him to have input on what he would like to do?  Perhaps choosing one short item per day that is "Mom's choice"?  When there is resistance to something, I've found that doing it during or immediately after breakfast seems to cut down on that resistance.  They don't have to interrupt something else they are invested in to do something that I require.  But, honestly, I think it's trial-and-error and a constant quest for balance in these things.  Every child and every family is so unique that what works for one doesn't work for another.

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We had this problem last year. This year is amazing! The difference: I gave him a planner that I write in on Saturday in ink, show it to him during a "meeting time" Saturday night so he can prepare himself for Monday. One problem he told me was last year he thought I was adding to his day too much or changing it on him. The other problem was him eating breakfast and then playing till mommy finished her coffee. This year he makes his bed, gets dressed, eats breakfast, and brushes his teeth before school. I grab coffee and go directly to the school room for Sotw2 audiobook (I can drink during it then) or on Tuesdays and Thursdays it's Song School Latin DVD first. It starts our day on a better note because I'm not being the mean one that has to end play time for school time. Also, audiobook or dvd first helps us come together, wake up, and get my patience going first. We've had an amazing first 4 weeks of school.

 

Some of the reason I was adding and changing his school day so much was because he accelerated through stuff on Monday and thought that was it for math for the week. We have the right levels of stuff now and if we get to a point of needing change, I promised it would only come in January.

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It is clear that you have issues but are you sure you want to deal with it as a HS issue? Educationally you guys seem to be doing great... maybe not doing what *you* want or doing as well as ideally possible... but still doing great. I would look at where rigidity and non-compliance are most disruptive to your family routines and attack that problem rather than working on the issues on the HS side and hoping it transfers to a broader context.

 

My DS7 is somewhat similar... For HS we been very unschooly/interest-led. In Kindergarten the only required subject was reading, which only required daily silent reading, and he went from reading "Henry and Mudge" to "The Hobbit". Last year in 1st the only required subject was math. He covered MEP1-3, Miquon Red/Orange/Blue/Green, and CWP3 and other stuff. This year our focus is on writing. In the last year, DS has been loosely guided to do a huge American Revolution/Colonial history study, done a long term siege weapon project, and spent ~3 months working on codes and ciphers(which involved Martin Gardner's book, Top Secret, parts of the 1st chapter of EM, Parts of the MEP y7 codes unit, etc etc). He loves being shown things by me but refuses to take instruction. We compromise and I require 30-60m a day on what ever our yearly focus is. Each year he is more willing to take instruction or suggestions in other areas. On this trajectory, I am not worried about high school or college. His interests overlap with academics so it should not be a problem.

 

On the home side, DS7's rigidity and opposition are a larger problem. Especially as it impacts DS5. We have chosen to focus on daily routines, flexibility, helping out with common tasks, etc as a larger non-negotiable issues. This allows us to separate the character/psych issues and educational issues. Overloading Hsing with these broader behavioral issues would be a disaster in our house.

 

ETA: Every year pre-school forward, the balance of time spent on academics vs behavioral issues has shifted. In the Preschool years, we did no academics and merely worked on behavior. This year in 2nd, I hope it will be ~3/4 academics ~1/4 behavior. We'll see how that goes...

Thank you for this. I think it is a wise view. I really need to tackle it in other areas first and just let him do what he does academically, since that is his natural bent and yes, he really is doing fine there. Yes, he may refuse or goof off instead of practicing handwriting when I ask, but usually during the course of the day, he does write something for some project he is doing on his own. So it doesn't matter there. But I do need to get ahold of him in daily life. He's a good sweet kid, but he is used to directing the show. Even with his paino teacher, I'm amazed at how he plays her into doing things he wants. Or taking over at his co-op class. He just has one of those personalities that make most people stand back and be like, okay, so you are in charge here. I know we have done a terrible job of putting him in his place and I know it's a major parenting fail. I just don't know, after all these years, how to undo it.

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 I know we have done a terrible job of putting him in his place and I know it's a major parenting fail. I just don't know, after all these years, how to undo it.

 

We are struggling with these same issues. My one piece of advice would be to not view this as "putting him in his place". I don't view this as a power issue. Yes, DS7 needs to learn to back the **** down in many cases. However, I think the larger issue is learning to compromise when it is in his interests. Learning to give in to an arbitrary authority is not a goal for us.... learning to deal with crap to achieve self directed goals is a HUGE issue for us.

 

This is a major issue for both our HS and outside activities. Maker activities have been helpful for us. The materials can't compromise.  Gnashing of teeth and rending of garments follow... but I'm not involved(mostly) ;). That is a reality check. His intrinsic motivation is high enough to make this work. We use the after school classes at Leonardo's Basement, a local kid-centric make space. One of their stated goals is to give kid's a chance to fail. DS7 has plenty of chances to fail... however having supporting adults outside the family who love his creativity and drive and put up with his intensity has been huge.

 

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I have one of these. Honestly the ages of about 5-7 were the worst in this respect for me...that combination of intensity and know-it-all-ness along with approximate age-level appropriate dexterity and interpersonal skills was just killer. He's 9.5 now and I can say that it is improving--in a halting way, but definitely improving--I think thanks to his maturation as well as more experience on my part figuring out how to handle it. To us, what often looked like a power struggle was (and still does, but thankfully with less frequency now) his suboptimal way of telling those in charge that they weren't meeting him where he needed to be met.

 

For me, I need to give very gentle direction and really play to his strengths, less of a "leadership" and more of a "partnership" role for myself. I know that sounds kinda hippy-dippy but for me it is true. I had to learn to examine the objectives of whatever given thing I wanted him to do and really decide if it was worth the battle or if there's another way to reach the same destination. An example: I remember an assignment series I gave him when he was about 6, read a book about different jobs in a city, then fill out a sheet matching the different jobs with different characters, then build a 3D model of that city out of cardboard, which would also teach about map grid coordinates, simple architecture, etc. DISASTER! He was ok with reading the book. DID NOT want to do any of the rest of it. I think we butted heads all week on it. It was one of the episodes that had me step back and re-evaluate. Was the point of the exercise learning the jobs, the architecture, the grid system? Was it writing legibly? Was it matching and cutting and taping? I think we fought each other for days on this. I eventually decided that if the point was learning the content, he did that just fine by reading the book, as he demonstrated during more calm moments of conversation, and by making a map of an imaginary city he dreamed up. I decided that if the point was penmanship practice, he was probably not physically ready for that specific handout yet and he's better practicing that through his millions of comic strips, or the labeling of the place names in that imaginary city. If the point was cutting and using tape? Who cares, that'll come when he's bigger and stronger, that's not something he needs to be doing independently right now if he's in a homeschool environment.

 

So, fast forward to now, about 3 years later. He's obviously on the wordy/bookish side and "projects" that are not internally driven are still a quick trip to meltdown city, but if I hand him a book on a topic I want him to study, he will pick it up and read it, and after he's had a chance to mull it over, he's happy to talk about it and will often wrap it in somehow to his own thoughts or projects of his own choosing. He needs a little more time to come around to an idea that isn't his own, needs to do research first before he decides something unfamiliar is something that deserves his attention. Apple actually didn't fall far from the tree on that one, and I think that's ok. It can really appear as super obnoxious behavior in a small child but as a quality in an adult or teen, really not that bad, and can be a real positive when it comes to peer pressure, choosing your own life path, etc. Luckily homeschool gives us the space to work with this tendency instead of against it as is the case in many classroom environments.

 

So that's just my experience, so far, YMMV. Hang in there!

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I struggle with this, too. I feel like my son needs daily practice in his weak academic areas and at least minimal daily work in his strengths. When he challenged it (a lot at age 6...less now at 8), I simply said that it was the law that he had to do school and xyz is what I expect or he would need to go to a brick-and-mortar school. He agreed reluctantly when he could tell I wasn't going to back down. I did not want to put him in school, but I would have if we couldn't reach an agreement.

 

Honestly, this may come back to haunt me because he now sees school as "the work Mom makes me do" and says he dislikes it. He doesn't count all his interest-led projects as school (even though I do count them surreptitiously).

 

But it does help (even for this structure-averse mother) to keep to a basic routine. We complete "school" in the morning after breakfast. Then he is free to do whatever projects strike his fancy. There is more resistance if we deviate from that routine for whatever reason.

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This is my son. He has always been super independent. At 2 he was trying to make his own meals.

At almost 5 he is not a fan of direct instruction. So I have chosen curriculum that he can work through on his own. He will approach me only when he has a question. A few months ago I bought him a student planner and this was the best thing I did. I wrote down all his mandatory work. Right now it is just Language Arts and Math. He is to go through and do these lessons. He has figured out that if he gets these ones done he will then be able to read or learn about anything he desires.

I have found that he is also more receptive to learning from apps, TV and books initially. Once he has an idea of what he has been learning we will have an open discussion about it. He doesn't like it when I try to teach him initially.

 

I am an autodidact also. So I get how he works.

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