Ask the Mom of an Early College Kid

[Jenny in Florida]

Okay, since the new book by the Harding family seems to have kicked off this conversation again, I figured now might be the time to borrow an idea from the Chat Board and offer to try and answer any questions you all wish to throw at me about sending a kid to college early. I don't actually hang out on this board anymore, but I thought now was as good a time as any for a visit.

 

For background: My daughter went to a residential early college program when she was 12. The program is housed on the campus of a women's college, and aside from living in a special dorm for the first year or two and having a few extra rules (earlier curfew, etc.), the girls are fully integrated into the campus. They take classes with the "trads" (traditionally-aged students) and are free to participate in campus-based extracurriculars and all of that. My daughter graduated at 16 with a degree in theatre, minor in music.

 

My son opted to stay home a bit longer. He began nearly full-time dual enrollment at a local community college last year when he was 15. He is now a freshman and living in the dorms at a college about 90 minutes from our home. He is majoring in musical theatre and is deciding whether he will minor in dance or try for a double major.

 

Both homeschooled from the beginning until the day they set foot on a college campus.

 

So, fire away. I do want to clarify that I am not in any way promoting or advocating early college for all or most kids, even the gifted/accelerated ones. But since it's often a topic of interest and I have a bit of experience,  I'll do my best to tackle any questions you all have.

[maize]

What led you to choose early college for your DD? I know you have mentioned it was something she was very interested in. Did she mostly drive the decision? Were you reluctant at first? How far was her college from your home? Did you feel you couldn't provide what she needed academically, or was she unhappy socially, or?

 

I would really rather never have to make a decision like this for my kids, I'm happy to keep them home until traditional college age. But I have seen situations where a parent and child felt that the child's progress and especially happiness required moving on much earlier.

[texasmama]

I have a son who is two years ahead in grade level at this point and has a self-stated goal of going to a four year college when he is 16.  He is now 11.  This is his goal for himself, and we will support him in it if this continues to be what he wants to do.  He is academically gifted, confident and mature, so I think he is fully capable of this.  I plan to petition for early entrance into the CC system when he is about 14 or so.

 

What is your advice to a mom like me with a kid like this?

[EKS]

If a special early entrance program had not been available or an option for your daughter, would you have still pursued college for her at age 12?  

[Dmmetler]

How do you feel about the rigor of MBC compared to other schools? I'm especially interested in STEM, for obvious reasons. The admission requirements for PEG are well within my DD's reach, but honestly are low compared to many of the schools she'd likely be considering (and some that have already expressed interest in her), but that seem rather large and scary for a younger student. As far as I can tell, there's no one at MBC publishing in the areas she's most interested in right now.

 

 

I suspect that she'll be mostly needing college level content by early teens regardless, even if I call it "high school" and piece it together at home.  Right now she's happy at home with all the additional science, and I kind of feel like I have a reprieve, but I wonder how long it will last?  She's definitely struggling with not having cognitive peers who are close to her age more and more (she started planning for her birthday party, and honestly had trouble coming up with more than a couple of names of people who she'd actually like to invite who weren't over the legal drinking age).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Woodland Mist Academy]

How do you feel about the rigor of MBC compared to other schools? I'm especially interested in STEM, for obvious reasons. The admission requirements for PEG are well within my DD's reach, but honestly are low compared to many of the schools she'd likely be considering (and some that have already expressed interest in her), but that seem rather large and scary for a younger student. As far as I can tell, there's no one at MBC publishing in the areas she's most interested in right now.

 

 

 

This is one aspect that concerns me. If my daughter can already meet the admissions requirements of the normal age student, I struggle with what the average class would be like.

[EndOfOrdinary]

Was/is your daughter introverted or extroverted? I loved and thrived in the early college summer program I attended, but I am an introvert. I liked being fairly invisible. Coming home to being "seen" and having to handle that was what really killed it for me. DS is extroverted and desperately wants friends, "hanging out", and to feel part of something. I am most concerned about him not feeling as though he is included. College is such a social time period. Did it turn out that way for your daughter?

[Ad astra]

I'm interested in hearing about the academic routes (curricula/programs) and extracurricular activities your children took before they went to college. :)

[Crimson Wife]

Was she advanced pretty equally across all subjects or did she skew towards one domain? If she was unevenly gifted, what did you do to prepare her in the less-advanced domain once she expressed interest in early college entrance?

[Jackie]

When your daughter graduated from college but was still a minor, what options did she consider for ages 16 and 17? Did she pursue further education? Did she move back home? Did you legally emancipate her (and if not, would you have considered it?)? I'm curious what happens with kids when the traditionally available "next steps" aren't available due to their age.

[EndOfOrdinary]

When your daughter graduated from college but was still a minor, what options did she consider for ages 16 and 17? Did she pursue further education? Did she move back home? Did you legally emancipate her (and if not, would you have considered it?)? I'm curious what happens with kids when the traditionally available "next steps" aren't available due to their age.

I am not Jenny in Florida (obviously), but had a small amount of information about one legal option. I do not know massive amounts (I was the minor, not the parent), but thre is paperwork for some situations with minors needing greater freedoms.

 

I spent my summers two states away at CalTech going to school starting at age 14. It was only for two months at a time, so not for years or anything, but my parents had to sign guardian ad litem like paperwork over to the school. It basically allowed for me to have a go to adult to receive medical care, have minor forms signed which needed someone eighteen or over, or step in legally if I really screwed up. Obviously, my parents would be called and have say in major stuff, but it took care of little things.

 

In the same way, my brother had a friend growing up whose father would travel abroad for business for months at a time. The friend was old enough to handle being at home with cursory supervision, but the father signed over all the legal stuff to my parents in the same way. They were medical, legal, and paperwork adults.

 

It allowed for greater freedom within the bounds of legal red tape without having to emancipate.

[Jenny in Florida]

What led you to choose early college for your DD? I know you have mentioned it was something she was very interested in. Did she mostly drive the decision? Were you reluctant at first? How far was her college from your home? Did you feel you couldn't provide what she needed academically, or was she unhappy socially, or?

 

She completely drove the decision. As I've said elsewhere, I actually tried really, really hard to talk her out of it and, when that failed, to stall her for at least a year. When I took her to a prospective student weekend, my hope/plan was that she would get there and find it wasn't as great as they made it look in the brochure and would decide she didn't want to apply. In fact, she was technically a year too young for the program. So, I figured even if she did apply, they would at least defer her for a year. 

 

Instead, she fell in love with everything about the place and insisted on going home and applying immediately. Within a few weeks, she got a phone call letting her know she'd been accepted.

 

As far as what made us consider it, that was mostly because she was just so frustrated and lonely here at home. With each year that passed, she found she related less and less to her age peers and seemed to get farther and farther ahead academically. Programs and classes designed for kids her age bored her to tears, and we found doors to anything that might have interested her closed everywhere we looked because of her age. While it was theoretically possible for us to find academic challenge through online classes and such, in practice those things were unfulfilling because she craved opportunities to interact meaningfully with people who could actually challenge her. 

 

It got so that it was an ordeal to get her to leave the house, because there just wasn't anything she wanted to do. About the only thing she really loved to do was theatre, but she had by that point sworn off children's shows, and there are a very limited number of roles for 11- and 12-year-old girls in "real" shows (unless they can pass for boys, which mine couldn't). As long as she was in a show, she was okay, but there just weren't enough theatres in town to keep her busy. After a few months of watching her wilt, both emotionally and physically, before my eyes, the idea of sending her to college suddenly seemed more reasonable. 

[Jenny in Florida]

I have a son who is two years ahead in grade level at this point and has a self-stated goal of going to a four year college when he is 16.  He is now 11.  This is his goal for himself, and we will support him in it if this continues to be what he wants to do.  He is academically gifted, confident and mature, so I think he is fully capable of this.  I plan to petition for early entrance into the CC system when he is about 14 or so.

 

What is your advice to a mom like me with a kid like this?

 

My best advice is to stay flexible. Prepare to put your son on his stated path, but don't close any doors along the way, and don't get tunnelvision.

 

My son had said for several years that he wanted to stay home and not graduate from high school until his friends were graduating, too. Most of his friends are one year older than he is and are now in their senior year. We considered all kinds of contortions to try and plan a path that kept my son moving forward academically in a meaningful way AND kept him here AND put him on track to graduate in the same year as his friends. He was adamant about it, and that was the plan. 

 

Then he started dual enrollment a year earlier than we thought he would be allowed to do so and realized that he liked college better than homeschooling and that he was entirely capable of doing the work required. And in the course of about a week, he went from "not graduating until next year" to deciding where to send his first batch of applications. 

 

Fortunately, I had been pretty intentional about record keeping and making sure his transcript and all of the supporting materials were up to date, which made it possible to pull things together quickly. 

 

Aside from that, my only advice would be to make sure you let your son drive these decisions. The kids I have seen over the years whose parents pushed them into early enrollment were the ones who failed miserably and were miserable doing it. I'm not convinced it's possible to plan more than a few months ahead with these kids, and staying flexible is how I stayed (mostly) sane.

[Jenny in Florida]

If a special early entrance program had not been available or an option for your daughter, would you have still pursued college for her at age 12?  

 

That's a really good question, and one I haven't heard before. 

 

By the time we allowed her to go away, it was clear that some kind of drastic measures were needed, because she was just so unhappy. If the early entrance program had not been available, we probably would have taken some other path to find her something to do. I know I put on the table the idea of moving to Reno so she could attend the Davidson Academy. I was also aware of a couple of non-residential early entrance programs in California, and we briefly discussed the idea of moving back there to get her access to one of those programs.

 

Before she got her heart set on PEG, we had been kind of planning on having her spend a year or two prepping for and taking AP and/or CLEP exams while letting her devote more time to formal performing arts training. So, that might have been another option.

 

We absolutely knew we needed to do something.

[Jenny in Florida]

How do you feel about the rigor of MBC compared to other schools? I'm especially interested in STEM, for obvious reasons. The admission requirements for PEG are well within my DD's reach, but honestly are low compared to many of the schools she'd likely be considering (and some that have already expressed interest in her), but that seem rather large and scary for a younger student. As far as I can tell, there's no one at MBC publishing in the areas she's most interested in right now.

 

I suspect that she'll be mostly needing college level content by early teens regardless, even if I call it "high school" and piece it together at home.  Right now she's happy at home with all the additional science, and I kind of feel like I have a reprieve, but I wonder how long it will last?  She's definitely struggling with not having cognitive peers who are close to her age more and more (she started planning for her birthday party, and honestly had trouble coming up with more than a couple of names of people who she'd actually like to invite who weren't over the legal drinking age).

 

MBC isn't considered especially selective, definitely, but like any school there are opportunities to learn for students who seek them out.  In general, my impression is that the rigor at MBC was more or less equivalent to what I remember of my own days at the University of Missouri.

 

STEM is not my area of expertise. (Both of my kids are performing arts types.) Most of the young women with whom my daughter graduated went on to graduate school in STEM fields, many at well-respected universities. So, they seem to be doing something right.

 

And, as is true of many small liberal arts colleges, MBC and PEG, in particular, seem to be "self-selecting." In other words, most of their students are a whole lot brighter and more capable than their entrance requirements or the percentages accepted would suggest. 

 

My daughter did have some ambivalence after she graduated about whether she would have been better off sticking it out at home for another few years and then attending a more selective, more demanding college. In her case, though, she would have had to cool her heels at home for a long time before that became a possibility, and, at the time, we made the best decision we could.

 

Now that she has some distance and is busy getting on with her life, she had made peace with her choice and is very happy with where she is.

[Jenny in Florida]

Was/is your daughter introverted or extroverted? I loved and thrived in the early college summer program I attended, but I am an introvert. I liked being fairly invisible. Coming home to being "seen" and having to handle that was what really killed it for me. DS is extroverted and desperately wants friends, "hanging out", and to feel part of something. I am most concerned about him not feeling as though he is included. College is such a social time period. Did it turn out that way for your daughter?

 

I've never been able to pin down the introvert/extrovert thing for her. She definitely needs quiet, alone time to recharge, but she also NEEDS people for a certain amount of time each day. One of the very best things about the early entrance program for her was that she had a peer group for the first time in her life and did have people with whom to hang out and go places and do things. It was a huge benefit for her.

[Jenny in Florida]

I'm interested in hearing about the academic routes (curricula/programs) and extracurricular activities your children took before they went to college. :)

 

In her early years, my daughter used a lot of workbooks straight off the shelves at Barnes & Noble. Each year, we would go to the store and sit on the floor and pick which books she would use. Since so many of those kinds of materials are designed to spend the last 25% of the book reviewing what has been covered earlier and the first 25% of the next book reviewing what was covered the previous year, we often found it made sense to skip a "grade" in some subjects. We'd supplement those with lots of reading from the library and educational videos and field trips and hands-on projects, but we didn't make a fuss about sticking with any particular curricula. 

 

When she was about eight, she started asking how we were going to make sure she was prepared for college. So, we took that summer to research more formal, structured high school programs and make a plan. We looked at packaged curricula and online and umbrella schools and finally decided that TWTM felt like the right path. In doing the reading, I was surprised to find myself feeling certain that she was ready to go ahead and jump in at the rhetoric stage, despite her age. 

 

The most recent standardized test we have given her was the eighth grade PASS (Hewitt), on which she had done extremely well. She liked the idea of starting "high school." So, after consulting with the teacher who did our annual evaluations, we opted to go ahead and call the following year "ninth grade." 

 

At that point, we transitioned to an eclectic but WTM-inspired curriculum. We followed the WTM method for history and literature, although not always the recommended reading lists, and she did a couple of years of Latin. We departed from TWTM's suggestions for science and math, and we added courses that aligned with her interests (mostly around theatre and music, but also archaeology and a few other quirky things). 

 

Because she ended up taking more courses each year than was typical, she finished the usual high school requirements in three years. 

 

In terms of extracurriculars: She was a member of the local anthropological society. She sang with two choirs. She was the editor of our homeschool group's monthly newsletter. She was a founding member of our then-church's youth group. She took piano and classical guitar lessons, as well as classes at the Shakespeare Theatre. She was a member of a musical theatre performance troupe. She did two or three community theatre productions each year. She held her own season ticket to the Shakespeare Theatre. 

 

My son did a couple of years of workbook-based school, then transitioned to a WTM-inspired approach. At one point, he wanted to apply/audition for the performing arts magnet program at a local high school. In an effort to strengthen his application (and reinforce the fact that he was "officially" a grade ahead of his age peers), we opted to enroll him in Florida Virtual School for all of his core classes for what would have been his eight grade year. He changed his mind and decided to stay home for high school, and we reverted to our more eclectic, classically-inspired approach. 

 

In what was supposed to be his 10th grade year, however, everything hit the fan. We had barely limped through the previous year, and we were arguing and butting heads all the time about school. I felt like he got less and less done while I got more and more frustrated with each passing day. I finally hit a breaking point and told my husband I was done homeschooling our son, that something had to change. We batted around ideas for a couple of days and finally opted to enroll him in all online classes. He started over, essentially, in early October with a full slate of classes through Florida Virtual School and ALEKS. After an adjustment period, he ended up doing really, really well, and we began to remember that we liked each other. The following year, he began dual enrollment at the community college with three classes each semester. He rounded out the schedule with two FLVS classes. 

 

Since he, too, had acquired some extra credits in his first year of high school and racked up the equivalent of a couple of extra credits through the dual enrollment, he was only a couple of classes short of finishing his high school requirements by the end of that third year. He spent the first month or so of this past summer studying for and taking two CLEP exams to fulfill those two credits, allowing him to finish high school in three years, also.

 

His primary extracurricular over the last couple of years has been dance. He is primarily a tap dancer, but he also takes classes in ballet, modern, hip hop, jazz and tumbling. For the last two years, he was on his studio's competition team and also assistant and co-taught a few classes each week. Between regular classes, competition team rehearsals and his teaching commitments, he often spent 15-20 hours at the dance school weekly. He regularly attended competitions and conventions and did summer intensives, as well as taking several master classes each year. 

 

In addition to dance, he volunteered at the science museum and as a junior counselor for the summer day camps at a local theatre (logging a total of almost 300 hours between the two). He did several youth and community theatre productions, sang with a choir (with whom he toured to Washington, DC, London and Oxford and New York), was a member of the church youth group, organized and performed in an annual talent show fund-raiser and took technology and programming classes at our local library. 

[Jenny in Florida]

Was she advanced pretty equally across all subjects or did she skew towards one domain? If she was unevenly gifted, what did you do to prepare her in the less-advanced domain once she expressed interest in early college entrance?

 

Yes, by about nine or 10, she had more or less evened out. Prior to that point, he weakest area had been writing. So, we were very intentional about working on those skills. 

[Jenny in Florida]

When your daughter graduated from college but was still a minor, what options did she consider for ages 16 and 17? Did she pursue further education? Did she move back home? Did you legally emancipate her (and if not, would you have considered it?)? I'm curious what happens with kids when the traditionally available "next steps" aren't available due to their age.

 

We considered emancipation and would have done it if she had wanted to go that way. Instead, she opted to come home for a couple of years. She spent the first year doing lots of theatre and taking voice lessons and looking for a job. She knew she needed to work on her dance skills in order to position herself to be successful as a working performer, but we were not able to finance that for her.

 

Eventually, she took matters into her own hands and arranged an informal internship at a dance studio. She worked the front desk -- learning about the software they used and how the business was run -- and got the bonus of being allowed to take as many dance classes as she could fit into her schedule. Within a few months of taking several classes a week, she brought her skills up enough to pass the dance audition and be hired in the entertainment department of a large resort hotel. She finished the academic year at the dance studio, as she had promised, but also started performing at the hotel. She worked at the hotel for about a year and a half, but also parlayed the skills she had learned at the first dance studio into a paying job at a different performing arts school, where she worked the front desk and taught acting classes.

 

She lived with us for about three years, total, during which time she banked almost everything she earned. Earlier this summer, she used her savings to finance her move to New York. She applied, auditioned and was accepted to a prestigious acting program, which she will attend part-time for two years. She is currently (mostly) paying the rent with a nearly full-time job at yet another dance school and will be teaching in a youth theatre program part time. 

 

She's very happy with her life at the moment.

[Jenny in Florida]

 How far was her college from your home? 

 

I apologize. I somehow missed answering this question before. We live in Florida, and her campus was in Virginia, about 800 miles from us.

[Ad astra]

Thank you so much for taking time and effort into sharing, Jenny. Your detailed reply is greatly appreciated. You've done an amazing job! :)

[Woodland Mist Academy]

Yes, thank you for your openness. It gave me a clearer picture of your daughter's situation and the reasons behind the decisions. Thanks!

[texasmama]

I really appreciate the information and advice. I often feel like I am just along for the ride with my potential early college kid. In some ways, that is easier actually.

[Jenny in Florida]

I really appreciate the information and advice. I often feel like I am just along for the ride with my potential early college kid. In some ways, that is easier actually.

 

I have always laughed when people accuse me of pushing my kids, since I feel like the best I can do is to hold onto their coattails.

[Crimson Wife]

Yes, by about nine or 10, she had more or less evened out. Prior to that point, he weakest area had been writing. So, we were very intentional about working on those skills. 

 

Thanks for the reply! So in your opinion, the best candidates for early college are kids who are globally advanced rather than those who are much more heavily advanced in one domain.

[Jenny in Florida]

Thanks for the reply! So in your opinion, the best candidates for early college are kids who are globally advanced rather than those who are much more heavily advanced in one domain.

 

I actually don't have a strong opinion about that. I know of some kids who started taking college classes quite early but only in the subjects in which they were especially strong. That seemed to work out fine for them. 

 

I guess it does seem logical that you can't expect a kid to succeed as a full-time college student if he or she can't manage college-level material across the board, though.

[texasmama]

I have always laughed when people accuse me of pushing my kids, since I feel like the best I can do is to hold onto their coattails.

No kidding. Lol

[Runningmom80]

I don't think this is very polite to ask, but I'm going to ask anyways and hope that I don't offend.

 

My biggest fear with ds is that we aren't going to be able to finance early college. I'm curious as to scholarships available for early entrance kids. Can you speak to that at all?

 

I'd also like to thank you for being so open about your experiences. It can be really scary raising these kids, and it's often hard to talk about for various reasons, so I really appreciate your willingness to answer our questions!

[Jenny in Florida]

I don't think this is very polite to ask, but I'm going to ask anyways and hope that I don't offend.

 

My biggest fear with ds is that we aren't going to be able to finance early college. I'm curious as to scholarships available for early entrance kids. Can you speak to that at all?

 

I'd also like to thank you for being so open about your experiences. It can be really scary raising these kids, and it's often hard to talk about for various reasons, so I really appreciate your willingness to answer our questions!

 

No offense taken, none at all.

 

As far as I know, EC kids have the same opportunities for scholarships as do traditionally-aged students. My daughter earned a scholarship that covered about half of her tuition based on her ACT scores. She also earned a scholarship that covered the private voice lessons that were required for her minor in music.

 

On paper, we make too much money to be needy enough for any federal aid, but she would have qualified for that, too. We did end up taking a fairly large chunk of loans to finance her last couple of years, because we simply weren't in a position to pay the difference out of pocket. Some of those loans are in her name, and others are parent PLUS loans. 

 

My son is costing us much less out of pocket each year. He was awarded a combination of scholarships (academic and performance) and grants that cover about 80% of his tuition / 65% of his total fees. He took a small-ish loan in his name, and we are paying the remainder out of pocket. Again, he was eligible for the exact same aid as any student would be.

 

Thanks for the kind words. I'm always happy to chat about our experiences. I know what a gift it was to me when I had the opportunity to connect with other parents who were either walking the same path or had gone before.

[Runningmom80]

Thank you! That gives me some things to think about.

[Dmmetler]

How did you manage transportation? It seems a minor point, but I remember getting stuck in an airport due to weather at age 18 and having trouble because I was too young to check into a hotel alone (the pilot of the plane I was supposed to be on spoke up for me and convinced the manager to make an exception).

[mliss]

My two children (edging 12 and 10 years old) are each taking one class a semester at the local community college and, because the children are minors, the college requires me to be physically present on campus while they are in class.  I don't know what the rules are at other universities and colleges though.  Anyone have any experience with this?  (Not that I would want to drop a 9-year old off at college and drive away, but by the time DS is 14-years old it might be nice to go grocery shopping while he's in class.)  Jenny did you have any experience with this?

[Jenny in Florida]

How did you manage transportation? It seems a minor point, but I remember getting stuck in an airport due to weather at age 18 and having trouble because I was too young to check into a hotel alone (the pilot of the plane I was supposed to be on spoke up for me and convinced the manager to make an exception).

 

The staff of the early entrance program ran shuttles to the local airports. However, we could never make the scheduling work out properly to get our daughter between Virginia and Florida. She was so young that she was required to fly as an unaccompanied minor, with the extra rules that involved. For example, the regional airport closest to the campus did have flights out most days that offered connections to here. However, they offered exactly one such flight per day. Since, as an unaccompanied minor, she was not allowed to have any leg of her trip be the last flight out that day, it effectively meant she could not fly out of the closest airport. The next closest, larger airport was 45 minutes from campus, and flights from there still required at least one transfer and a layover in an unfamiliar airport, often during times of year when the weather was iffy.

 

She did travel with the family of a friend who also lives in Florida a couple of times. And once she rode with the family of a friend to stay at their home in another area for a couple of days, and they  put her on a train the rest of the way home. 

 

But mostly, I ended up just driving there and back quite a bit. I wasn't working for pay at that time, and I drive small-ish, fuel-efficient cars, meaning it often worked out to be less expensive to have me make the round trip than to buy her a ticket. I just felt better knowing that, if anything did happen and she got stuck somewhere for whatever reason, we'd be together.

[Jenny in Florida]

My two children (edging 12 and 10 years old) are each taking one class a semester at the local community college and, because the children are minors, the college requires me to be physically present on campus while they are in class.  I don't know what the rules are at other universities and colleges though.  Anyone have any experience with this?  (Not that I would want to drop a 9-year old off at college and drive away, but by the time DS is 14-years old it might be nice to go grocery shopping while he's in class.)  Jenny did you have any experience with this?

 

The college my daughter attended did not require me to stay on campus, possibly because they were set up to deal with younger students. However, when my son dual enrolled at the local community college at 15, I was required to be there. I didn't go to class with him or anything like that, but I did have to stay on campus whenever he was in class until the day he turned 16.

[urthmama]

I am so excited you're answering questions - thank you!!!

 

Okay - so if you had to choose between these options (given what you know now) - which would you choose:

 

1)  EEP Program like MBC (in my case, it's the CSULA EEP, we are within commuting distance) 

 

2) CHSPE (California high school equivalency exam), Community College for two years, then transfer to local 4 year university as a junior (at age 14 or so)...

 

3) Independent homeschool study, AP CLEP and DANTES exams, then apply to college or university with advanced credit from credit by examination

 

4) Wait and apply to more selective undergrad at age 16 or 17 (just a year or two early)...possibly out of state

 

 

Thanks so much!

 

 

[Jenny in Florida]

I am so excited you're answering questions - thank you!!!

 

Okay - so if you had to choose between these options (given what you know now) - which would you choose:

 

1)  EEP Program like MBC (in my case, it's the CSULA EEP, we are within commuting distance) 

 

2) CHSPE (California high school equivalency exam), Community College for two years, then transfer to local 4 year university as a junior (at age 14 or so)...

 

3) Independent homeschool study, AP CLEP and DANTES exams, then apply to college or university with advanced credit from credit by examination

 

4) Wait and apply to more selective undergrad at age 16 or 17 (just a year or two early)...possibly out of state

 

 

Thanks so much!

 

 

I'm sure this is going to be a frustratingly vague answer, but: It would depend enormously on the kid.  We considered all of these options for each of our kids and ultimately let each of them have the primary voice in the decision. My daughter chose #1, while my son came in somewhere between #2 and #4. (The college he attends is not super selective, but admission to the performing arts major is competitive.) We made the decision that seemed right for each of them at the time we made it.

 

Florida doesn't have an exam equivalent to the CHSPE, sadly. If we had that option, I think I might have encouraged my daughter to do that and then at least try a year of community college locally. I don't know that it would have been a good fit for her, in part because students under 16 are not allowed to participate in extracurricular activities at the community college, which would definitely have compromised the experience for her as a theatre student. But I would probably have wanted to give it a shot to keep her a little closer to home a little longer. 

 

And if we had something like the CHSPE, I would definitely have had my son take it by age 13 or 14, when he was really flailing around at home. By the time he was allowed to dual enroll at 15, he was already past most of what the community college could offer him, academically. He would have benefited greatly from being able to take at least a class or two each semester in the previous couple of years.

 

An idea that is batted around in parents of highly/profoundly gifted kids circles is the "least worst" option. The world is simply not set up to accommodate kids who are as different as ours. And often that means there is no "best" choice. Sometimes, the "best" we can do is accept the "least worst" alternative. Sending my daughter 800 miles away at 12 was painful, stressful, difficult (mostly for me), expensive and kind of a roller coaster. On the one hand, she had a peer group for the first time in her life. She was surrounded by girls roughly her age who "got" her. And that was a very big deal. On the other hand, the college wasn't everything one could hope in terms of academic challenge, and the opportunities in her major were limited. If I were transported back to that moment now and the conditions were the same, I suspect we'd make the same decision, but it wasn't ideal.

[urthmama]

Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply!  It actually really helps a lot.  I think the idea of the "least worst option" is very fitting - it's actually why we are homeschooling at the moment.  When we moved to our school district (very expensive and, honestly, out of our price range) - we had heard so many wonderful things about the district and the opportunities for gifted kids - and nothing was enough...really, that sounds ridiculous, but it was nowhere NEAR enough.  So after two years of trying to make it work, we left the district, moved to somewhere less expensive (yay!) - and now we're homeschooling.  Prior to having my daughter, I never thought I'd be homeschooling her!

 

She is pretty introverted and independent - her younger sister is a very accelerated autodidact - while I love that we have the EEP program at CSULA, I also wonder if it's more set up for kids coming from traditional school settings.  My kids are not particularly achievement oriented - they love to learn for the sake of learning, and they are not used to being graded, competition with other students, and testing (at least not at this point).  I wonder if it would be better to let them enter that world very gradually...

 

So, while I don't really want to do the credit by examination route - I think it may be a good fit for them when they are younger because they can learn at their own pace without classroom pressures.  The downside is that many of the credits will only transfer to certain schools (the CSUs, less selective - and not the UCs)...

 

The idea of online learning has also been appealing to me because they can set their own schedule with it, for the most part, and it doesn't involve me driving them or being physically at a campus location!

 

I am very drawn to the idea of a peer group at the EEP program - and for the first time, my daughter would have others who "get" her - I just wonder if it's a good fit for her with her personality - and she is definitely not STEM - she wants to be a writer/artist - so...I don't know if that's a great fit at the CSULA EEP, in particular - where most of those kids seem to go on to med school, phd in science programs, or law school after graduation...

 

I wish it were easier - I keep telling myself these are good problems to have - just sometimes I think how much simpler it would be to have a child at or near grade level and push along with the typical way of doing things!!! :-)

[saw]

Thanks for this info Jenny. I feel like I'm doing a sort of cut and paste patchwork for my dds and hoping it works. In an ideal world, how would your dd's education have looked?

I ask because sometimes I look back and think, well, if we hadn't moved and I could have sent them to a day school that was the equivalent of a top prep school and kept them with their age-peers, would I have done it? And often the answer is no, I think they have benefited from the slightly random approach. Other days I get a different answer.

[Laura Corin]

My two children (edging 12 and 10 years old) are each taking one class a semester at the local community college and, because the children are minors, the college requires me to be physically present on campus while they are in class.  I don't know what the rules are at other universities and colleges though.  Anyone have any experience with this?  (Not that I would want to drop a 9-year old off at college and drive away, but by the time DS is 14-years old it might be nice to go grocery shopping while he's in class.)  Jenny did you have any experience with this?

 

Calvin will be a minor (17) when he goes to university.  I have just signed a waiver stating that the university is not in loco parentis, so if I want anyone to be in loco parentis, I need to appoint them separately.

 

I think that students below the age of 16 might need to be accompanied here, as the university lecturers and ancillary staff will not have had the same police background checks (for offences against children) that school employees would have had.  I don't have personal experience, however.

 

L

[Laura Corin]

 

 

4) Wait and apply to more selective undergrad at age 16 or 17 (just a year or two early)...possibly out of state

 

 

Thanks so much!

 

We have gone the selective undergrad route.  There have been longueurs in Calvin's education, but I think that he is going into exactly the right place now.  I hope.

 

L

[saw]

Calvin will be a minor (17) when he goes to university.  I have just signed a waiver stating that the university is not in loco parentis, so if I want anyone to be in loco parentis, I need to appoint them separately.

 

I think that students below the age of 16 might need to be accompanied here, as the university lecturers and ancillary staff will not have had the same police background checks (for offences against children) that school employees would have had.  I don't have personal experience, however.

 

L

 

I'm glad to hear this, because when we moved to the UK a few years ago and starting talking university to people here, several people were adamant that Oxbridge will not accept students under 18 because of the CRB check.

 

[Laura Corin]

I'm glad to hear this, because when we moved to the UK a few years ago and starting talking university to people here, several people were adamant that Oxbridge will not accept students under 18 because of the CRB check.

 

 

Yeah.  Poppycock.  

 

For that matter, traditionally Scottish students left school at 17 anyway.

 

L

[kiana]

I'm glad to hear this, because when we moved to the UK a few years ago and starting talking university to people here, several people were adamant that Oxbridge will not accept students under 18 because of the CRB check.

 

 

Many UK ones won't accept under 16 because of the check, though. 

 

Cambridge accepted a 14-year-old as recently as 2010: http://www.theguardian.com/education/2010/jan/07/cambridge-university-14-arran-fernandez -- he graduated in June and came in first in his year.  

 

Oxford accepted a 14-year-old in 2005: http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/aug/21/highereducation.accesstouniversity -- the student in question graduated with his master's and went to Imperial College London.

 

At the time, Oxford was planning on instituting an age limitation due to the onerous requirements of child protection, but it does not look like they did: http://www.admissions.ox.ac.uk/faq.shtml#10

 

Where (I think) it is going to be more difficult, is that usually here a 14 year old who is simply somewhat above average compared to 18 year olds can find somewhere that will admit them, I doubt this will happen in the UK. There was a big kerfluffle in the newspapers a few years back, because a 14 year old who had 3 B's on challenging A-levels had been unable to find a place anywhere -- basically, they'd told him that he was too young, to go do another set of A-levels or coursework from the Open University and re-apply when he was 16 with A grades. 

[Jenny in Florida]

Jenny,

 

My son was wondering how your son feels when he is in classes with older people, and doen't have the body development to appear 'normal' for the age span of the class? Son is always treated just like any other student by the teacher, but some of the classmates have had issues with refraining from the 'boy genuis' label, instead of appreciating that some students do listen to the teacher and get their work done in a timely manner, so they arrive at this level faster than others who detour or take a slower pace..

 

One of the deciding factors for son (he decided to stay in high school and do distance learning rather than go to CC for jr or senior year of high school) was not wanting to be in CC classes at 15 or 16 with ex-military people who have served in war...he is not ready to hear the experiences that would be brought in. Did your son come to realize that he had that level of maturity before he enrolled?

 

Well, my son has always been tall for his age, and because he is well spoken and carries himself well, people pretty much always assume he's older than he is, anyway. Some of the moms who had younger kids in the classes my son taught at his dance school last year assumed he was 18 or 19 at the time, when he was, in fact, 15. And last year while he was doing dual enrollment, there were some students who flat out thought he was kidding when he had to reveal his age. (The instructor was making a point about demographics and had students raising their hands to identify age groups. He didn't mention an age young enough for my son to raise his hand, which drew some attention and introduced the subject.) So, physical appearance has never been an issue. 

 

And the specific question of dealing with war stories hasn't come up for my son, as far as I know. However, he's been seeing and reading mature stuff for a long time. For example, he's had his own season ticket for our local Shakespeare theatre since he was eight. And he started reading novels from the grown-up fiction section when he was 10 or 11 (in addition to the YA stuff). And, of course, he's a theatre kid. So, he's been interacting with adults in the casts of shows pretty much for as long as he can remember. The emotional maturity thing really barely crossed our minds, and it hasn't been a problem.

[Dmmetler]

FWIW, at age 8-9, my DD has had less trouble doing field and lab work with college and grad students than she has had with middle school and high school students locally. She does tend to sometimes become the "mascot" of the group, which she goes between enjoying and detesting.

 

I do think that if we end up pursuing early college, it will be because of the "peer group" thing-she can find cognitive stimulation and content, but she doesn't have other people who are in the same place she is. MBC is very attractive for that reason-that and my parents live in Harrisonburg, so she'd have family that's pretty close by.

 

 

 

[8filltheheart]

Heigh Ho,

 

It doesn't even take early entrance for awkward situations to arise. Our ds, who is technically a freshman but not by hours, is taking a 300 EE class. Apparently it is a class that a lot of EE's postpone to their sr yr b/c supposedly it is one of the hardest EE classes (but it is really mostly physics). During the first week of class, the professor divided them into groups to solve some problems. Ds was helping the other students solve the problems bc they weren't sure how to go about it. The next week ds was in a seminar type class where upperclassmen serve as mentors for the freshmen, and there were some awkward moments bc ds's mentor ended up being one of the students he had been helping in the EE class.

 

I agree with the content issues in some humanities classes. Dd DE in an English class at the local CC. The papers were all personal essays (definitely not literary!) She read papers about having been in jail and the victim of prison rape and other papers about post-traumatic stress from war. There were papers involving drug dependence and what they were willing to do in order to get $$ to feed their habit. It was definitely exposure to a world that we do not live in and described in graphic, personal terms. (All of the humanities classes my kids have taken at CCs have involved peer reviews.)

 

That dd was almost 18 at the time, and she had the personality where she was able to cope with it ok. But, no, I would not want my younger kids to read the things that she described.

[Butler]

As has been mentioned before, this is really such an individual decision that different decisions are often made for different children in the same family. If your child is very immature, shy and can't handle sensitive situations then it would be ridiculous to put him/her in college early regardless of their academic abilities. If on the other hand your child is mature beyond their years and interacts well with adults, and has that rage to learn and has exhausted all local offerings, then it might not be the right call to delay until the child is a specific age or in hopes that he/she can get into a more selective college (that you can afford).

 

Fortunately it's not usually a situation where it's either languish in school until 18 or dive head first into a residential college at 12. There are, for most of us, a variety of options.

 

Our family opted for early college so I am most familiar with that option. While I don't believe the are any hard and fast rules, there are a few conditions I would make sure are satisfied before I opted to send a child to a college at a very young age.

 

They must be able to communicate for themselves. This is college, professors are not going to call you for parent teacher conferences. You cannot call the professor to verify when an assignment is due or to make sure it was turned in. If your child has any questions they must be able make use of office hours and study groups. If they have a question about their grades they need to be able to address it themselves.

 

Their output must be at the college level. College requires writing, usually lots of it.

 

They need to have the confidence to express their opinion or viewpoint with older people in classes that require or reward participation, if they cannot then I would refrain from putting them in a discussion based class.

 

They have to be self disciplined. There is a syllabus handed out in the beginning of the semester. Exam dates and due dates are listed there. That might be the only time those dates are mentioned. The child has to be able to organize and plan their workload.

 

They have to be mature enough to handle an emergency. One of my son's college had a shooting on campus and the school went into lockdown for four hours. A lockdown in collge is different than a middle school/highschool lockdown. There is not the same handholding and comforting. He had just finished a class and had to find a secure location on his own and keep the presence of mind to stay calm throughout. If your child panics easily I would not send him/her into an adult environment early. (It could be something as minor as a bus breakdown. One of mine had to take a bus between intercity campuses. The bus broke down in between them one time in the second week. No one took charge of the situation and told anyone what to do like they would if it was a public school bus. Everyone just got off and started walking in different directions. My son knew the directions and ended up walking two miles to class on his own and was fine. Not all children would be.)

 

They have to be able to do well. College grades, no matter the student's age or where they took them, stay with the student for life. This is not a place for experimentation. I would not put my child in a college class unles I was 100% they would do well in the class. (and still I would make sure the student followed their grades and knew the drop date just in case)

 

This is based on my family's experiences (two early college students, 12 and 14.) I think early college is absolutely the best option for some kids. Just make sure yours is one of them.

[quark]

As has been mentioned before, this is really such an individual decision that different decisions are often made for different children in the same family. If your child is very immature, shy and can't handle sensitive situations then it would be ridiculous to put him/her in college early regardless of their academic abilities. If on the other hand your child is mature beyond their years and interacts well with adults, and has that rage to learn and has exhausted all local offerings, then it might not be the right call to delay until the child is a specific age or in hopes that he/she can get into a more selective college (that you can afford).

 

Fortunately it's not usually a situation where it's either languish in school until 18 or dive head first into a residential college at 12. There are, for most of us, a variety of options.

 

Our family opted for early college so I am most familiar with that option. While I don't believe the are any hard and fast rules, there are a few conditions I would make sure are satisfied before I opted to send a child to a college at a very young age.

 

They must be able to communicate for themselves. This is college, professors are not going to call you for parent teacher conferences. You cannot call the professor to verify when an assignment is due or to make sure it was turned in. If your child has any questions they must be able make use of office hours and study groups. If they have a question about their grades they need to be able to address it themselves.

 

Their output must be at the college level. College requires writing, usually lots of it.

 

They need to have the confidence to express their opinion or viewpoint with older people in classes that require or reward participation, if they cannot then I would refrain from putting them in a discussion based class.

 

They have to be self disciplined. There is a syllabus handed out in the beginning of the semester. Exam dates and due dates are listed there. That might be the only time those dates are mentioned. The child has to be able to organize and plan their workload.

 

They have to be mature enough to handle an emergency. One of my son's college had a shooting on campus and the school went into lockdown for four hours. A lockdown in collge is different than a middle school/highschool lockdown. There is not the same handholding and comforting. He had just finished a class and had to find a secure location on his own and keep the presence of mind to stay calm throughout. If your child panics easily I would not send him/her into an adult environment early. (It could be something as minor as a bus breakdown. One of mine had to take a bus between intercity campuses. The bus broke down in between them one time in the second week. No one took charge of the situation and told anyone what to do like they would if it was a public school bus. Everyone just got off and started walking in different directions. My son (12) knew the directions and ended up walking two miles to class on his own and was fine. Not all children would be.)

 

They have to be able to do well. College grades, no matter the student's age or where they took them, stay with the student for life. This is not a place for experimentation. I would not put my child in a college class unles I was 100% they would do well in the class. (and still I would make sure the student followed their grades and knew the drop date just in case)

 

This is based on my family's experiences (two early college students, 12 and 14). I think early college is absolutely the best option for some kids. Just make sure yours is one of them.

 

I agree with most of this strongly but wanted to highlight the two parts in bold where our experience so far is a little different. We are taking the community college route (good college, high transfer rate to UC, much better instructors than some other local CCs etc) which allows a little more flexibility.

 

We are at a stage where CC, while not the ideal solution, is the closest that comes to challenging him not just academically but also in so many other ways. I feel like we already waited too long and that some of the classes are still not challenging enough (at least at this beginning stage) and if we waited any longer for writing output to catch up, he would be bored to death. So for this specific child who is still not ready to go to 4-year uni full time but is more than ready for college-level classes in most areas (but not writing pages and pages at college level), the CC classes are proving to be a good-enough interim choice. He has the flexibility to choose the math and science courses where tons of humanities-style writing is not yet required.

 

Actually, this is an experiment for us. I don't know how we would know if something is a good fit or not without experimenting. With such an asynchronous child, we just cannot wait till his writing catches up (across all types of writing output I mean). But he is ready in every other way that Butler mentioned.

 

Probably opening myself up for tomato-throwing...but I just wanted to say this is our situation and what feels best for him right now.

[Woodland Mist Academy]

It's good to see you, quark! I've wondered how everything is going! Hopefully well! :)

[Butler]

I thnk we are saying the same thing, Quark, as least as far as part-time or dual enrollment goes. You know your son would do well in math so those are the classes in which he's enrolled. You don't think he's ready for the writing intensive classes yet so he's not taking them.

 

What I mean by experimentation is putting a child in a college class when you have reasonable doubt that they are ready for all facets of the class. If someone really wants their child to try a college class, and is not positive that they will do well, then I would suggest auditing first or, at the very minumum, knowing exactly what is the last day to withdraw from the class without grade penalty.