any regrets with medicating ADHD?

[Student Mommie]

Hello!

 

Our doctor told us there are only two kinds of parents of ADHD kids.  Those who medicate their children and are happy about it, and those who are too scared to try.

 

Yes, yes, I'm too scared to try-- but I'm still thinking about it because my kid deserves a chance to learn and be productive and experience so much of what he is missing.  My current fears are: stunting growth, changing his brain structure in a bad way making him worse when he gets off the drugs (sort of like asthma inhalers which help short term but make asthma worse in the long run), getting him used to the idea of altering his personality with drugs making him more open to the idea of taking illegal drugs, and most scary of all is the meds triggering possible underlying bipolar/schizo.  

 

Since I'm currently in that scared group, I was wondering if anyone would like to speak up from the mysteriously absent third group...  Those who medicated their ADHD child and regretted it.  Not people who tried and it wasn't effective for their child due to co-morbid conditions or just needing to switch to a different med, so they moved on to other therapies-- I mean people who tried and actually had something bad result from that, so it would have been better had they never tried.

 

I don't mean to add salt to your wounds by reminding you about something that didn't work out for your family or hurt your child.  I was just hoping you will help those of us on the fence about meds to see if the negative side exists and what the real risks might be.

 

Thank you!

[sbgrace]

I guess I'm, regretfully, that third group.

ADHD medication really does help my son with his ADHD. At first, I really felt sad we had waited so long. He was able to pay attention, impulsivity was improved, he could concentrate to finish things, etc. It was really good. Then it wasn't.

 

For him it seems ADHD meds (including non-stimulant) severely aggravate OCD. He also complains he can't "turn off his imagination" and sleep is very difficult. The last prescription med we tried was supposed to help sleep. It was a non-stimulant that causes drowsiness/is taken at night. Not for him! He was having trouble falling asleep, and waking throughout the night (very atypical for him). I  think the sleep issues were probably because of the lack of ability to settle his mind while on the medications. We've had two prescription drug failures now, and a similar negative result with an OTC, but clinical trial evidence supported, supplement. In doing research, it looks like he's likely to have the same problems with anything. I'm sad honestly.

 

I don't regret trying fwiw (assuming this present OCD spike goes away, we quit the latest medication a couple of days ago). I know what it looks like to have ADHD control. I won't wonder if something could have helped him had we tried. I think there might be a possibility of using a medication very short term for a major test or similar in the future. I wish there was something that could help him.

[Guest]

We were given a non-stimulant medication for our dd (after I refused the stimulants due to side effects I read about).  I've had it in our medicine cabinet for almost three months.  I want to make sure there are no side-effects before I give it to her.  One of my friends said these medications can shorten your life... not sure how accurate that is??  So, too afraid to try it.

[Mandylubug]

Well, we medicate. There are side effects like lack of appetite, insomnia at times, enhanced OCD behaviors. We just try to work through them. 

 

In reference to the drug usage implications..I had read in several places throughout my college education (psychology major) that individuals with ADHD were more likely to turn to drugs if not medicated. They could be prone to look for relief in other areas. one article of interest! http://archives.drugabuse.gov/NIDA_Notes/NNVol14N4/ADHD.html

 

It is a big decision. One to not be taken likely. You have to weight the pros and cons. Try everything you can without medication and then go from there.

[Erin]

This probably won't help you in the slightest, but I have toyed with this SOO many times over the years…  

Ultimately, what keeps me from pushing harder toward medication is the fear of false diagnoses.  :(

 

Buck has dyslexia.  Never had him tested for that one, either, but that's an easy spot!  ...A late talker, difficulty reading, completely arbitrary and unpredictable misspellings, dysgraphia, etc, etc.  

Textbook.  

 

The problem is, because of working memory overloads, dyslexic kids often have executive function issues as well as space-cadet tendencies that can look just like ADHD-PI.  And, since there's no definitive test for ADHD, it's a ruling-out process and a this-is-what's-left type of diagnosis.  Consequently, it's extremely common that kids with dyslexia are diagnosed with ADHD when they don't actually have it.  Most people focus better on Ritalin et. al (why it's such a popular drug in college, after all), so just seeing if he functions better isn't necessarily relevant information, either!   :bored:

 

Anyway, I know this doesn't even come close to answering your questions, but just tossing out yet another facet of the medication question.  

 

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

I'm in the third group.

 

Wish we had started sooner.

 

The meds are amazing.

 

The only side effect we deal with is loss of appetite.

 

 

ETA:

 

If I had any doubt, the two week med break we are taking has shown how much the meds really do help.

[Elisabet1]

You need a different doctor.

 

Those who are happy about it and those who are too scared to do it? Your doctor is pressuring you and you should see that.

 

My son was medicated. He was out of control at the time. The doctor said he had the most severe case of ADHD he had ever seen. But he was 5. Just before he turned 8, he almost died from a reaction to that medication. He had to be hospitalized in the children's hospital. He went med free after that.

 

There are problems with medications. There are plenty of people who chose not to medicate, and not because of fear. There are a lot of people who medicate out of fear.

 

Oh, and Focalin works with some, but makes some people's children angry and violent. My son tried that for a short bit. If you knew him, my son is my blessing. He is a wonderful kind person. I have never had complaints about him. But, when on the Focalin, he started writing letters and drawing pictures about hating me and wanting to kill people. Not kidding. He got back off the meds and is fine. The original med that almost killed him was Pamelor.

 

Please, look for a different doctor. Also, psychiatrists are there to prescribe meds. Going to a psychiatrist with no intent to medicate is like going to a surgeon with no intent to operate. Forget the psychiatrist.

[Crimson Wife]

Our biomed dr., Dr. Sanford Newmark, wrote an entire book on non-pharmaceutical treatment for ADHD and even he suggested medication after we exhausted his list of suggestions to try and youngest DD was still having symptoms.

 

I had a long talk with the psychiatrist in June about the pros and cons of different medications. We ended up going with a short-duration stimulant called Methylin. She takes it after breakfast, gets 4 hours of focus to get her through her kindergarten, and then it wears off by lunch time so there hasn't been an issue with appetite suppression. DD had an EKG to make sure that she didn't have any underlying heart issues. It has been great so far.

 

I am glad that we tried natural treatments first because I do think that medication should be a last resort rather than the first thing tried. But pharmaceuticals do have their place even if MD's tend to overprescribe them.

[TxMama]

I was in the "too scared to try group". Now I'm in the 3rd group with PinkyandtheBrains of "wish I'd tried it sooner".

[Crimson Wife]

Re-reading your OP, one thing stood out: there is no evidence that schizophrenia can be caused by ADHD medications. Schizophrenia is highly genetic and also linked to prenatal exposure to the influenza virus.

[swellmomma]

I am not happy my boys are medicated in the sense I don't like having to pump them full of meds to get standard behaviour out of them (especially oldest with his cocktail) I had many of the same fears as you before we began BUT I am happy with what those meds do to improve their quality of life.  SOme meds I have had to fight for a long time for and my only regret is that no one listened to let him start sooner.  I have no regrets not medicating the girls.  But I go on a case by case basis and each of them presents differently with different issues and so far the girls don't need it.  But if they did I would not hesitate to start them on them as well.  For us it has 100% been worth it.

[LMV]

Ultimately, you (and your child's father if they are involved) need to make the decision you feel is best for your child.  I'm not saying you should opt for a medication trial at all, a stimulant trial specifically, or that you shouldn't.  Having said that I do see a few misperceptions below I'd like to clear up so I've added in some thoughts in pink.

Hello!

 

Our doctor told us there are only two kinds of parents of ADHD kids.  Those who medicate their children and are happy about it, and those who are too scared to try.

 

Yes, yes, I'm too scared to try-- but I'm still thinking about it because my kid deserves a chance to learn and be productive and experience so much of what he is missing.  My current fears are:

stunting growth *Yes, appetite suppression can be a side effect of the stimulant class of ADHD medications.  This isn't a problem for all patients who take these medications so it may be reasonable to try and see how your child tolerates the medication.  This may not be an issue at all or it may be something that can be addressed by dose timing or dose adjustment. Or it may be a situation where the benefits of the medicine outweigh the side effect.  (We have personal experience with this with an anticonvulsant our six year old is taking.) Additionally, please remember that there are several classes of ADHD medications which are not stimulants.*

changing his brain structure in a bad way making him worse when he gets off the drugs (sort of like asthma inhalers which help short term but make asthma worse in the long run) *Ok, to clarify bronchodilators do not make Asthma worse in the long run.  For patients who only have a rare flare (aka mild intermittent asthma) they are treatment of choice because maintenance therapy is not needed.  Even for patients with more persistent symptoms bronchodilator therapy is still the treatment of choice for acute bronchospasm.  It doesn't harm patients it just is incomplete therapy (it opens up the closed airways but does nothing to address the inflammation that leads to more bronchospasm---that is why we add inhaled steroids or mast cell stabilizer medications as maintenance medicines and add systemic steroids in the event of severe flares).  To get back on topic stimulant medications are not without their side effects and they may not be the best choice for all kids but using them will not make the ADHD worse in the long term.  Some children (including our DFS) are able to successfully come off stimulant medicines in later adolescence and function well others have persistence of symptoms and may benefit from consideration of continued therapy into adulthood and beyond.*

getting him used to the idea of altering his personality with drugs making him more open to the idea of taking illegal drugs *Studies have not shown any evidence of increased substance misuse or abuse due to the use of stimulant drugs.  What studies have shown an is an increased risk/prevalence  of substance abuse (often as self medication) in adolescents with untreated ADHD during adolescence and later in life.  Conduct disorder (which sometimes is an ADHD comorbid) is also associated with increased risk of substance abuse as well.*

most scary of all is the meds triggering possible underlying bipolar/schizo.  *There is not any evidence to support this association.*

 

 

 

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do. 

[Student Mommie]

Thanks.  I don't know what to believe.  There is the mainstream view, and then there is emerging research which is not yet conclusive and indicates some possible serious problems.

 

There are scientists now saying that ADHD does indeed stunt growth.  It's on WebMD.  That the idea that these kids with slowed growth from long term use of ADHD meds will somehow have a growth spurt to make up for it, does not have evidence to back it up.  

 

And for kids *susceptible* to bipolar type stuff, there is evidence that ADHD meds work as a kind of "triggering event" that somehow stresses the brain into emerging the underlying bipolar/schizophrenia/etc.  But it has not been extensively studied.

 

 

 

 

Ultimately, you (and your child's father if they are involved) need to make the decision you feel is best for your child.  I'm not saying you should opt for a medication trial at all, a stimulant trial specifically, or that you shouldn't.  Having said that I do see a few misperceptions below I'd like to clear up so I've added in some thoughts in pink.

 

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do. 

 

[Student Mommie]

Thanks.  I don't know what to believe.  There is the mainstream view, and then there is emerging research which is not yet conclusive and indicates some possible serious problems.

 

There are scientists now saying that ADHD does indeed stunt growth.  It's on WebMD.  That the idea that these kids with slowed growth from long term use of ADHD meds will somehow have a growth spurt to make up for it, does not have evidence to back it up.  

 

And for kids *susceptible* to bipolar type stuff, there is evidence that ADHD meds work as a kind of "triggering event" that somehow stresses the brain into emerging the underlying bipolar/schizophrenia/etc.  But it has not been extensively studied.

 

 

 

 

Ultimately, you (and your child's father if they are involved) need to make the decision you feel is best for your child.  I'm not saying you should opt for a medication trial at all, a stimulant trial specifically, or that you shouldn't.  Having said that I do see a few misperceptions below I'd like to clear up so I've added in some thoughts in pink.

 

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do. 

 

[sbgrace]

Stimulant ADHD meds do suppress adult height...but by cm's...very little. Quality of life outweighs cm in my mind, and my son is tiny/short. I wish my son could use them. Is there a family history of bipolar or schizophrenia? Re: bipolar. I'm not familiar with the research you're seeing, but I could definitely see how kids with undiagnosed bipolar, which looks different in kids, could be assumed to have ADHD and prescribed medication. I think your doctor was pressuring you to say what he did, but he was responding to fear in you. I suspect a lot of people do wish they had tried it earlier. I would be one if the medication hadn't aggravated other issues for us. Is the study on stimulants? Because the non-stimulants work very different in the body. They are blood pressure medicines and similar. The same studies, and definitely the growth suppression ones, won't apply to non-stimulants. You could see if one of those is a good fit.

[PeterPan]

I'd start with the new ped, since it sounds like this one is pressuring you.  Meds are not even the ONLY option.  Have you done neurofeedback?  It's recognized by the APA as a tier one intervention.  Go check it out.  

 

You also might decide that you'd like to do meds *later*, after he gets through puberty and most of his growing.  It's not like you only have ONE set of options on this.  

 

 

[Crimson Wife]

And for kids *susceptible* to bipolar type stuff, there is evidence that ADHD meds work as a kind of "triggering event" that somehow stresses the brain into emerging the underlying bipolar/schizophrenia/etc.  But it has not been extensively studied.

 

Source? That's a pretty serious claim to make and frankly, it doesn't jibe with anything I've read about schizophrenia. My dad's cousin had schizophrenia so it is a topic I read up on when I studied psychology in college.

 

[NotSoObvious]

Wow! Sorry, but I think your doctor sounds like an aggressive, arrogant, ass. Our pediatrician was extremely conservative with meds. We did end up medicating when I was at my wits end during her last year in school. Not anymore. In the future it will be her decision.

 

Whatever you decide, I'd find a doctor that isn't so over zealous about medication. Somehow I think he must not have a kid who is medicated. I can't imagine any parent being *happy* they've had to medicate their kids. It should be a decision that is very carefully made and monitored. IMO pediatricians shouldn't be allowed to prescribe ADHD meds, period.

[NotSoObvious]

Re the bipolar: my friend's daughter has bipolar and ADHD and stimulants are a big no no for kids with bipolar disorder. That's all I know. I don't know about the triggering though.

[Crimson Wife]

Okay, after doing a Google search, the only legitimate source I could find on the topic said that Adderall abuse can lead to psychosis. http://www-scf.usc.edu/~uscience/adderall_abuse.html

 

But psychosis isn't the same thing as schizophrenia. Schizophrenia can lead to psychosis but think of it like a Venn diagram with two overlapping circles. Not everyone with schizophrenia experiences psychosis and not all psychosis stems from schizophrenia.

[Ottakee]

First disclaimer-----I am in the camp of "I wish we could have started meds earlier"............and we started them at age 3.

 

As others have said the risk of using illegal drugs is increased for ADHD who are NOT treated, not those who are properly treated and monitored.

 

As to the bipolar/Schizo stuff, I understand.  My girls have a bio mom with both and bio dad with other mental illness so this is very real.  I don't think that the ADHD med "cause" or "trigger" the bipolar/schizo stuff but rather that the symptoms that were treated were bipolar/schizo based, not just pure ADHD.  It is very very common to have pediatric bipolar misdiagnosed as ADHD or have ADHD with it.

 

If you have bipolar and other mental health issues in the family history or concerns about these, I would make sure you have a top notch pediatric psychiatrist that is well versed in these things to help figure out what is going on..........and ever often, even then, there is often a "working" diagnosis meaning that they have a general idea but don't want ot give a firm diagnosis yet.

 

For us, we have meds for bipolar and ADHD and life is 95% better than it was before. 

 

 

 

 

[LMV]

Thanks.  I don't know what to believe.  There is the mainstream view, and then there is emerging research which is not yet conclusive and indicates some possible serious problems.

 

There are scientists now saying that ADHD does indeed stunt growth.  It's on WebMD.  That the idea that these kids with slowed growth from long term use of ADHD meds will somehow have a growth spurt to make up for it, does not have evidence to back it up.  

 

 

 

With the caveat that not all that appears on WebMD is truly what I would consider valid peer reviewed medical literature, I'm not disputing that there can be some mild diminishment in attained adult height for children treated with stimulants (or systemic steroids  and anticonvulsants for that matter). It is a little difficult to truly validate this association and ensure that the causal event is truly the medication because attained height depends on the intersection of genetic potential with environmental exposures so it is difficult to parse out confounders and even determine that stunting is even an issue in the first place.  You can certainly predict height based on a mid-parental height calculation but this is not an exact science and there is some variance around that prediction.  Again, as I said in initial post on this thread it really comes down to assessing the risks and benefits initially and then continuing to weigh the benefits against the side effects.  Not all patients are good candidates for all medications and treatment options but this assessment and decision really needs to be individualized.

 

 

And for kids *susceptible* to bipolar type stuff, there is evidence that ADHD meds work as a kind of "triggering event" that somehow stresses the brain into emerging the underlying bipolar/schizophrenia/etc.  But it has not been extensively studied.

 

I may not have worded my response to your last concern well.  To be honest I honed in on the Schizophrenia angle where I am not aware of any association and kind of ignored the bipolar aspect.  It is true that in patients with Bipolar Disorder that stimulant medications can potentiate mania.  Antidepressants (especially SSRIs and SNRIs) also carry this risk. This isn't a situation where the medicines cause Bipolar DO just that they may unmask an aspect of it not seen previously.  So in children with known Bipolar DO these medications should be used cautiously, with close monitoring, and often in conjunction with a mood stabilizer.  Does your child carry a comorbid Bipolar diagnosis?  Is there a history of Bipolar in the family?

 

Ottakee's point that BiPolar DO presenting with mania or hypomania may be misdiagnosed as ADHD has merit as well.  I think that argues towards making sure everyone is confident in the diagnosis.  It would be very reasonable to request a consultation with a child psychiatrist for a second opinion on the diagnosis.  I know our kids pediatrician works with child psychiatry with children with other psychiatric comorbids plus ADHD or with kids where she questions if ADHD is truly the correct diagnosis (vs. Depression, ODD, Conduct DO, BiPolar DO or some mix of the previously mentioned). 

[LMV]

Somehow I think he must not have a kid who is medicated. I can't imagine any parent being *happy* they've had to medicate their kids. It should be a decision that is very carefully made and monitored. IMO pediatricians shouldn't be allowed to prescribe ADHD meds, period.

 

I don't know that we were happy that DFS had ADHD but we were happy that there were options to treat the disease and that with those options (which did initially include, but were not limited to, stimulant medications) he was able to function, grow, thrive and heal.  He is now gainfully employed, and an amazing big brother, husband, and dad.  I think if we had been averse to allowing him a medication trial it is unlikely that he would have survived his high school years.  His impulse control issues were spiraling him into dangerous places when we intervened and I really don't want to think about what would have happened if we had not.  His medications were always predominantly managed by a child/adolescent psychiatrist because things were a little complicated, however, I do think there are pediatricians out there who are quite equipped to diagnose, identify comorbids (and refer to psychiatry and or neurology if necessary), do a good medication risk assessment, then develop a treatment plan, monitor for treatment efficacy and side effects, and address and adjust the plan.  I would place the pediatrician our children currently see into this group based on how I have seen her approach other issues.  I also think there are definitely pediatricians and family medicine doctors who see children who probably are not in a good position to address ADHD and should probably refer these children.  Sometimes that doesn't happen and that is unfortunate. 

[Lady Florida.]

I don't regret treating ds for his ADHD with medication any more than I'd regret treating him for diabetes with medication if he was diabetic. There are some people with diabetes who can control it without medication and some who can't. There are some people with ADHD who can control it without medication and some who can't. 

 

ADHD medication is a tool. It's not a cure (there is no cure) but it's nothing to be afraid of either.

[Lady Florida.]

ETA:

 

If I had any doubt, the two week med break we are taking has shown how much the meds really do help.

 

Ds took a med break and it showed him how much the meds actually help control his ADHD.

[Paige]

I guess I'm, regretfully, that third group.

ADHD medication really does help my son with his ADHD. At first, I really felt sad we had waited so long. He was able to pay attention, impulsivity was improved, he could concentrate to finish things, etc. It was really good. Then it wasn't.

 

For him it seems ADHD meds (including non-stimulant) severely aggravate OCD. He also complains he can't "turn off his imagination" and sleep is very difficult. The last prescription med we tried was supposed to help sleep. It was a non-stimulant that causes drowsiness/is taken at night. Not for him! He was having trouble falling asleep, and waking throughout the night (very atypical for him). I  think the sleep issues were probably because of the lack of ability to settle his mind while on the medications. We've had two prescription drug failures now, and a similar negative result with an OTC, but clinical trial evidence supported, supplement. In doing research, it looks like he's likely to have the same problems with anything. I'm sad honestly.

 

I don't regret trying fwiw (assuming this present OCD spike goes away, we quit the latest medication a couple of days ago). I know what it looks like to have ADHD control. I won't wonder if something could have helped him had we tried. I think there might be a possibility of using a medication very short term for a major test or similar in the future. I wish there was something that could help him.

 

This is all very similar to our experience.

 

DS responded really well to meds for ADHD for a while, but it never seemed just right. We went through several medications and doses trying to find the right fit. ADHD symptoms absolutely decreased on the meds. With some of them, however, DS had side effects like anger, irritability, sleeplessness, and depression. His overall affect was more negative. We finally found one that worked really well but we kept needing to increase the dose to get the same effect. Additionally, and what ultimately caused us to quit medicating, was the change in his personality when he didn't get the medicine. He was showing an escalation of symptoms far beyond what he had shown before we ever started. I asked if there was a sort of rebound effect and the doctor said he had no explanation for it. At first we doubted our memories. The doctor wanted to increase the dose again and add a sedative for evenings to help DS sleep and I refused and said we'd just take him off the meds all together. DS was very small for his age and I was uncomfortable with adding more meds to a kid who was not in a crisis. He was small genetically, not because of the drugs, FWIW.

 

After we took him off the ADHD meds we had a rough first few days but then it was like we had a new kid. The extreme ADHD we would see if we missed a dose was gone. His mood was more even and positive, he was happier, more cooperative, and friendlier. One of his doctors apologized for ever suggesting he had ADHD after he saw him off the meds.

 

IMO, DS never had ADHD. I believe he was misdiagnosed and his symptoms were related to OCD (still medicate for that) and his reactions to some upsetting events in his life that he was having trouble processing. He definitely looked like he had ADHD at the time, but he didn't have symptoms as a small child. I questioned the doctors on this and they blew it off. He was screened for ADHD with some supposedly objective measures and testing and scored very high. I don't really fault the doctors for assuming he had ADHD based on that or for not believing me when I said he was not symptomatic when he was younger. 

 

I do regret putting him on those meds. I think we wasted over a year masking his issues instead of allowing him to process and work through his feelings and develop better coping skills.

[Serenade]

Good thread. Thanks for starting it!

[swellmomma]

Source? That's a pretty serious claim to make and frankly, it doesn't jibe with anything I've read about schizophrenia. My dad's cousin had schizophrenia so it is a topic I read up on when I studied psychology in college.

 

I want to see the source too.  Especially since my son has bipolar.  It is something that was presenting before adhd meds were used, but not recognized until after.  The reason being that until we dealt with the other issues at hand like behaviours with adhd we could not conclusively say that he also has bipolar.  So the meds did not cause the disorder, they did not even trigger it, what they did do is allow us to see it more clearly so he could be diagnosed and treated.  As long as we were dealing with the adhd behaviours it was easy to blame the mania on adhd hyperness, the aggression/irritability on the adhd etc.  We had to treat the adhd to see that there was a comorbid disorder.  I believe that to be more accurate for most not that adhd meds have triggered another disorder.  Especially when non-stimulant meds are used (and that is said as someone who uses stimulant meds because the nonstimulant meds did nothing)

 

ETA: as for the diminished height issue.  ds16 is already taller than myself and his dad, neither of us are particularly tall (5'4" for me, 5'8" for him), but ds is already taller and has not has his big growth spurt yet as he was a late bloomer.  Ds11 also on stimulant meds, is almost as tall as me already.  He will hit his growth spurt younger than ds16 since he hit puberty already where as ds16 was 14.5 before he did, but even if his height is slightly diminished, I have no doubt he will hit 6' tall (his father is over 6') so a few cm's is not a big deal at all.

[Student Mommie]

Wow, so much to think about!  Let me just say, though, the doctor is really not a jerk, he is just a firm believer in pharma intervention-- he doesn't say it in a pushy arrogant way.  He has an (adult) daughter with Down's Syndrome and I actually think this gives him an excellent viewpoint, a gentle hand, and a strong advocate for kids, versus doctors with no special needs experience.

 

I'm sorry I cannot find the two links I read to studies about ADHD meds and bipolar/schizophrenia.  The term they used was "kindling" I think, in fact I've seen several references online to this phenomenon.  So in someone who is predisposed to these kinds of conditions, a very stressful event can "trigger" these disorders to start.  And the ADHD meds can act equivalent to a stressful event to some kids, which starts the disorder.  Anyway, that's what I understood, but it's been a few weeks.

 

I wonder if all those supplements people talk about like Insitol and 5-HTP are safer than ADHD meds.  I wonder if we should try them....

 

[swellmomma]

Given what you have said about the family history, I think trying supplements is a fair option to begin with.  5-htp helps me when my mood is wonky, but I have not used it to treat adhd.  For supplements I would likely go with fish oils, magnesium and 5-htp and take it from there.  I would include teaching how to meditate which teaches both how to center/calm oneself and how to focus on the minute things, both of which are lacking with adhd kids.  Even using meds I am trying to work on teaching that to my kids.  Also be sure to focus on specific executive functioning that are lacking, such as organizational skills (common with adhd folks) etc so those skills are built up.  Again something to be done even if using medications.  By targeted skill building and supplementing you may find your child gets by without needing to be medicated.  It is worth a shot to begin with but do not be closed off to the notion of medicating down the line if warranted. 

With my oldest we medicated from age 6-12 for adhd, but at 12 it was triggering rages.  He was not medicated for 3 years.  Those 3 years nearly gave me a nervous break down, but for a long time I was scared of the rages they triggered.  By the end of those 3 years I told the shrink we were not leaving that room without meds.  I didn't care if they were for me or for him, but someone was getting them.  Life was completely unbearable dealing with him.  He has been back on adhd meds for a year, on mood stabilizers for the bipolar for a week.  Even he noticed a difference this week.  Things that got him labelled as having conduct disorder for most of his life he can now control.  He has made us promise to never make him stop them, that he doesn't even care if he developed the life threatening side effects, he would rather die feeling like this than be off of them.  To have my son beg for that and make us promise to never let him be who he was off of them is heartbreaking.  The meds have given him the life he deserves.  Without meds he had nothing but heartache and struggle, it is the same reason my ds11 is on them.  THey can not function in society without them.  That was my line to be worth using them.  The girls can still function, make friends, gets school work done with good grades, dd15 can hold a job, attend camps etc without trouble.  They don't need them, but I am always keeping an open mind for down the line.  At this point supplements are enough for them.  

You have to determine where your line is.  What things need to be causing impairment and how severe do they need to be before you are willing to see the benefit of the meds outweighs the risks.  One should always be thinking of risk vs benefit before medicating, whether it is an advil for a fever or meds for adhd or any other disorder. For my boys no matter what the risks are, the benefits the meds provide outweighs them by far.

[PeterPan]

nt

 

Edited January 28, 2016 by OhElizabeth

[sbgrace]

Inositol will aggravate/worsen ADHD symptoms. Study trying it in kids: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/hup.470100608/abstract Findings: Inositol or dextrose (placebo) was dispensed in powder form at a dose of 200 mg/kg aggravation of the syndrome with myo-inositol as compared to placebo. I wouldn't try that one.

 

5-HTP acts very much like an anti-depressant. If you use that, be cautious as you would with an anti-depressant. Too much anti-depressant is very dangerous, so make sure you have a pediatric study for dosing. Be very careful. I don't think it would by my choice. If these natural things work, they are drugs with positive and negative effects and risks just like prescription meds.

 

 

One that has clinical trial support with ADHD, and a study in pediatric populations for dosing/safety support, is phosphatidylserine http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23495677 This had an effect similar, but not quite as strong, as a non-stimulant Intuiv here (for positive and negative in our case).

 

Another you might trial is pycnogenol. It's made from pine bark. Study on pediatric populations: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16984739 Taken at double the dose in this study, which is a dose used in pediatric asthma studies/safe, we do get some help. It's not nearly what ADHD medication did, but it's something.

 

Remember, you can try a non-stimulant. Those studies that scare you are about stimulants.

 

[Crimson Wife]

Dr. Newmark is very much into trying diet changes to see if that makes any difference in symptoms. DD was already gluten- and dairy-free before we started seeing him, but he also had us try at various times low-phenol (actually made DD *MORE* hyper), low oxalate, paleo without eggs, and there may have been others I'm forgetting. None of them seemed to make any difference aside from the negative effects from low-phenol. But I am glad that we gave each a try because I'd hate to use medication for something that actually was a symptom of food intolerance.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

 

 

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/281833.php?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=medical-news-today-adhd-drugs-do-not-stunt-childrens-growth-say-aap

[suenos]

Yes, we tried meds and I do (sort of) regret it. 

 

Long time lurker here.  Finally registered to add my $.02 worth. 

 

We tried meds for our ds.  He was clearly "adhd" (as in signs/symptoms long before preschool/Kinder experiences). Reason we finally tried them was due to serious behavioral issues - meltdowns, hitting, out of control hyperactivity. 

 

Tried stims first - Adderall then Concerta. Instant release, then extended release. Too many, too bad side effects: absolutely no appetite (would not eat!) while on them. Tics.  One night ds talked for 4 hours straight, non-stop, and constantly moved his fingers in a repetitive motion.  We kept trying (meds/dosages), b/c clearly they helped with impulse/hyperactivity/focus. But the kicker for me was ds' mood - irritable, crying, focused - yes, but angry and just not happy.  No joy. The major plus to "adhd"! DS has joy, energy and enthusiasm in abundance. 

 

Next tried non-stimulant.  Seemed to "work" - not as good for focus/attention, but helped with hyper/impulsive.  DS muddled along, but still lots of meltdowns/frustration/hitting.  Anxious, not making friends, not able to interact well with kids. Made him sleepy.  Had to keep increasing the dose to keep same effect, until we were at the top of recommended for his weight. 

 

We pulled DS from school about the time we settled on the non-stimulant (Intuniv). Kept him on the med while sorting out our first HS year.  Took him off early this summer - just to "see" - DH and I vowed to do a no-med trial 1 - 2 times / yr to make sure the benefits were worth it.  After 2 weeks of crazy making hyperactivity DS was markedly better. Better mood. Fewer  meltdowns - from 1 a day (or more) to 1 a week, maybe. Hasn't hit anyone since we dialed him down from the med. Hyper - yes. Focus/attention problems - big time. Better mood, happier, learning "strategies" to calm himself, adjust his behavior when kids/people react negatively to his behavior.  

 

I regret that year on the med, b/c I think the real remedy was removing him from school (an environment that was not good for him and likely caused, in a sense, most of his behavior problems). We wasted a year on a med that did harm his mood, but we didn't know it until we took him off after significant time recovering from the trauma that was school for him. 

 

The moral to my story. Don't let anyone/anything shame you for trying meds to help your kid.  But, don't let anyone push you into it.  ADHD meds are not the same as eyeglasses or Insulin (two popular analogies that are a load of you-know-what, imo).  Consider taking a dose or two yourself. See how you feel - it's not the same, of course, everyone reacts differently, but at least it will give you an idea. 

 

I might even try meds for DS again in the future - when he's older, can tell me how he feels/what the effects are/help make the decision. Maybe. 

 

Also, check out a wide range of lit on ADHD - it's a probably a poor label for a group of symptoms common to kids with many different "triggers"/"causes".  The book "ADHD does not exist" is well worth a read. 

 

I think the best thing for an "ADHD" kid is loved ones willing and able to "modify the environment" to play to his/her strengths and minimize the situations they will not be able to be successful at for as long as possible - until their "executive function" and other social/developmental/behavioral skills/brain catches up to their (superior!) motor function and peers. 

 

But again, I am not anti-med, and there is no shame in trying to do the best by your dc!  Nor in also prioritizing keeping yourself/your family sane and together. 

 

[PeterPan]

Suenos, I appreciate you coming out of lurking to share this!  My dd tried self-medicating with coffee this summer and found a dose that, indeed, did help with focus.  When she came home after that week, she had the extra fidgeting, etc. She said the movement increased as it wore off, sort of a rebound or something.  I don't know, but it was really scary for me to watch.  We're definitely not doing the caffeine thing again.  It had not occurred to me that could happen with stim meds, wow.  We think in her case maybe she's just really sensitive?  Dunno.  

 

I did skim that ADHD Does Not Exist book and it's interesting.  Didn't really change anything for us, and of course in the book he then has a chapter backpedaling and admitting it does exist, lol.  

 

My dd was really impressed this past week by a hospice nurse who, to all appearances, may herself be adhd.  As you say, she harnessed who she was and used it, coming into the room full of life and joy, and doing that day in, day out, in a very tiring situation.  We know a very good surgeon who does the same thing, harnessing it to do these long, involved surgeries.  

[Guest]

.

[laundrycrisis]

Another new approach is bacopa:  

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24682000

 

 

[suenos]

Thanks for the warm welcome OhElizabeth and 4evercanucks.  I've been benefiting from this forum for a while now. About time I should head over to Introduce myself, I guess! 

[PeterPan]

Another new approach is bacopa:  

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24682000

 

"RESULTS:SBME significantly reduced the subtests scores of ADHD symptoms, except for social problems. The symptom scores for restlessness were reduced in 93% of children, whereas improvement in self-control was observed in 89% of the children. The attention-deficit symptoms were reduced in 85% of children. Similarly, symptom scores for learning problems, impulsivity, and psychiatric problems were reduced for 78%, 67%, and 52% of children, respectively. It was observed that 74% of the children exhibited up to a 20% reduction, while 26% of children showed between a 21% and a 50% reduction in the total subtests scores.

CONCLUSION:

Standardized extract of B monnieri was found to be effective in alleviating the symptoms of ADHD and was well-tolerated by the children."

Do you know anything more about this?  I'm googling.  It's water hyssop, so you take it as...  Does the study show dosing?  Have you tried it?  What are the possible side effects or other things it messes up?  (hormones, whatever)  Those stats seem WILDLY IMPRESSIVE...

[Orthodox6]

/

[Orthodox6]

I wonder if all those supplements people talk about like Insitol and 5-HTP are safer than ADHD meds.  I wonder if we should try them....

 

No, they are not safer.  They are medications available without a prescription.  I do not want the government to micromanage the supplements industry, but I do wish that more people understood that herbs and supplements are actual medicines. 

 

When "standard pharmaceuticals" did not help me with major depression, the psychiatrist and I worked together with a trial of SAM-e which is non-prescriptive, but which had a run of Italian research studies examining its efficacy against depression.

[MotherGoose]

Okay, after doing a Google search, the only legitimate source I could find on the topic said that Adderall abuse can lead to psychosis. http://www-scf.usc.edu/~uscience/adderall_abuse.html

 

But psychosis isn't the same thing as schizophrenia. Schizophrenia can lead to psychosis but think of it like a Venn diagram with two overlapping circles. Not everyone with schizophrenia experiences psychosis and not all psychosis stems from schizophrenia.

Abuse of lots of things (Robitussin, for example) can lead to psychosis. There is lots of comorbidity of psychiatric diagnoses, and children can often look ADHD when they are little and turn out to have other things like bipolar, schizophrenia etc when they get older. It doesn't mean that ADHD or meds cause the illnesses, but there is overlap with the diagnoses and that skews the statistics. Have you tried giving your child caffeine? Many parents with children who respond to ADHD meds notice that their kids are calmer after having a cup of coffee or a Coke (aside from the effects of the sugar). The stimulant in the caffeine affects the brain in the same way as Adderall.

[Crimson Wife]

Another new approach is bacopa:  

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24682000

 

"RESULTS:SBME significantly reduced the subtests scores of ADHD symptoms, except for social problems. The symptom scores for restlessness were reduced in 93% of children, whereas improvement in self-control was observed in 89% of the children. The attention-deficit symptoms were reduced in 85% of children. Similarly, symptom scores for learning problems, impulsivity, and psychiatric problems were reduced for 78%, 67%, and 52% of children, respectively. It was observed that 74% of the children exhibited up to a 20% reduction, while 26% of children showed between a 21% and a 50% reduction in the total subtests scores.

CONCLUSION:

Standardized extract of B monnieri was found to be effective in alleviating the symptoms of ADHD and was well-tolerated by the children."

 

That is interesting, however, the publication is not a peer-reviewed one: http://www.camlawblog.com/articles/general-business/advances-in-mindbody-medicine-to-resume-publication-in-june/

 

I'd like to see further research on the supplement, preferably a double-blind, controlled one rather than an open-label one.

[laundrycrisis]

Do you know anything more about this?  I'm googling.  It's water hyssop, so you take it as...  Does the study show dosing?  Have you tried it?  What are the possible side effects or other things it messes up?  (hormones, whatever)  Those stats seem WILDLY IMPRESSIVE...

 

 

I'm taking 300 mg.  I do feel less foggy and I'm not craving caffeine as much.  

 

Here are some blurbs about studies that might be useful:

 

http://altmedicine.about.com/od/completeazindex/a/benefits_bacopa.htm

[southcarolinamom]

My college age dd takes short-acting Ritalin once or twice a day. It has vastly improved her focus. She is a  more careful  driver, a better student, and not as "scatterbrained" when it comes to remembering things she's supposed to be doing.  It's not a perfect situation, but  she is a better person for using this medication.

 

When she is not working or studying, she doesn't use the medication. i.e. when she's home for vacation and just "chilling" at the house or with friends.  

[suenos]

Haven't tried bacopa with my DS.  PM me if you want the full articles below.  The "CHP" [bacopa extract is a main ingredient] referred to in the first article is now being sold by an Israeli company under the name "Nurture and Clarity".  

 

Double blind clinical trial on preparation with bacopa:

 

Journal of Attention Disorders

14(3) 281–

291

© 2010 SAGE Publications

 

DOI: 10.1177/1087054709356388

A Compound Herbal Preparation (CHP)

in the Treatment of Children With ADHD:

A Randomized Controlled Trial

M. Katz,1 A. Adar Levine,2 H. Kol-Degani,2 and L. Kav-Venaki2

Abstract

Objective: Evaluation of the efficacy of a patented, compound herbal preparation (CHP) in improving attention, cognition,

and impulse control in children with ADHD. Method: Design: A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. Setting:

University-affiliated tertiary medical center. Participants: 120 children newly diagnosed with ADHD, meeting DSM-IV criteria.

Intervention: Random assignment to the herbal treatment group (n = 80) or control group (placebo; n = 40); 73 patients

in the treatment group (91%) and 19 in the control group (48%) completed the 4-month trial. Outcome measure: Test of

Variables of Attention (TOVA) administered before and after the treatment period; overall score and 4 subscales. Results:

The treatment group showed substantial, statistically significant improvement in the 4 subscales and overall TOVA scores,

compared with no improvement in the control group, which persisted in an intention-to-treat analysis. Conclusions: The

well-tolerated CHP demonstrated improved attention, cognition, and impulse control in the intervention group, indicating

promise for ADHD treatment in children.

 

Open label trial on Bacopa: 

 

Adv Mind

Body Med. 2014;28(2):10-15.)

An Open-label Study to Elucidate the Effects of

Standardized Bacopa monnieri Extract in the

Management of Symptoms of Attention-deficit

Hyperactivity Disorder in Children

Usha Pinakin Dave, PhD; Sunila Rajeev Dingankar, MA; Vinod Swaroop Saxena, MD;

Joshua Allan Joseph, MVSc; Bharathi Bethapudi, MVSc; Amit Agarwal, PhD; Venkateshwarlu Kudiganti, MD

 

[Student Mommie]

I was so excited about Bacopa.  Then I read through all the reviews on Amazon for that and also another herb that was recommended by Amazon.  Apparently Bacopa can be dangerous over the longer term 1 year+, causing hyperthyroidism or symptoms similar to it-- or something like that, somehow I cannot remember details any more unless it is right after I read them :/

[mom2jjka]

We tried Straterra with my DD this past year and it caused her to lose way too much weight.  (35 lbs!)

It also only mildly helped her ADHD, so we recently discontinued it.  I would not be opposed to her trying another med in the future - but she needs to gain some weight back first.

[Guest]

.