Classical Conversations and Catholic Issue with How Then Shall We Live

[Guest2]

Ok. First class of Challenge 2 completed. They had/willl have a video of How Then Shall We Live each class as well as chapter readings. I have read the first few chapters and it is full of the author's unsubstantiated opinion and is very derogatory to Roman and Eastern Orthodox Catholics, as well as other Christians who do not follow Mr. Schaeffer's views. Many historical references are incorrect. We started doing a fallacy study of the text, but I wonder if she should even be there. She enjoys the people and taking a homeschool class where most of the people actually do the work and are begining some critical thinking. A few of her classmates were also noting the historical inaccuracies, and t's not as if she is being treated unkindly by them. Why aren't they just studying the art itself and styles rather than read some agenda driven synopsis about what someone else thinks? That part doesn't seem very classical to me. I can have her opt out of the reading, but feel it is probably better to read it together. Not sure how to pre watch the videos. What would you do?

[G5052]

I'd contact the tutor and present your concerns.  We were involved in CC for many years, and the Challenge years are indeed far more evangelical Protestant than Foundations/Essentials.  When I was teaching the Challenge 2 Latin, I know that we had at least one Roman Catholic student, and the tutor handled very well.  I don't remember exactly how she navigated the Schaeffer book, but they stayed the year.  I remember her saying several times that every author has a viewpoint and that you don't have to agree with everything someone writes.

[Guest2]

Thanks for the reply. I have addressed it but she seemed surprised. She is kind person, but doesn't see a problem.

 

I think Catholics should be warned to read this book ahead of time before paying a non refundable tuition. I'm sure that most/ all Catholics would be very offended if they read or watched the video. I am just guessing that other Catholic parents didn't read the book or see the video series. I enjoy open dialogue and discussion about most subjects including religion but I don't cotton to derogatory remarks and insults. I don't think we live in a bubble, as many of our friends are not Catholic and a few are Hindu. We don't like to be called "papists", "the Romans", the Roman church, or to be called "the distortion of Christianity". Gregorian chants are prayers and are not"evil" as the video indicated. The author makes some statements about Thomas Aquinas and St. Francis that make believe that the author didn't understand or read any of their writings. It is just really weird. I'm not sure i would like it very much if I were a member of quite a few mainstream Protestant churches either. I'm ok with not agreeing with an author, but not ok with deragatory remarks/names, repetition of false Catholic theology. I think I'll have my daughter read an alternate book and possibly a MP3 player during the video. It is unfortunate as I like many things about Classical Conversations.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I guess I would be a little more forceful in expressing my disappointment with what they are teaching.  I would let them know that they are doing a disservice to the other students by spreading falsehoods about the Catholic church, which can lead to bigotry and intolerance and, sometimes, bullying.  This is not teaching kids how to think, this is indoctrination. 

[G5052]

Yes, I can see now why this is upsetting.  Far more than I understood when we were involved with Challenge II.  You have a tough choice there.

[Guest2]

You both have given me a lot to think about. Thanks for the support, encouragement and ideas:)

[chiguirre]

If it makes you feel any better, Francis Schaeffer's son wrote a tell-all biography about his upbringing:

 

http://smile.amazon.com/Crazy-God-Elect-Helped-Religious-ebook/dp/B003K1552E/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1409490092&sr=1-3&keywords=frank+schaeffer

 

This won't solve your CC problems, but it might put the whole bigoted mess in perspective.

 

For your dd, I'd get some Sister Wendy videos. She's lovely, truly loves the art she's talking about and is a nun. Most libraries will have these and there are a lot of them.

 

Are you sure that you can't get a refund, even if it's partial? This just seems like a recipe for a long, bitter year that you would be better off avoiding if you can. Next year, I'd look into Kolbe's online lit and history classes or the WTM Academy. For the price of CC you could sign up for 2 great books based discussion classes.

 

 

And, I have to ask, how exactly can you diss St. Francis of Assisi? That's mind boggling. And Gregorian chant is EVIL? Devilishly hard to sing well, okay, but evil? That's weird!

[Guest2]

This^ makes me smile. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

We decided to withdraw her enrollment; refund or not. We have paid for the first semester and facility fees only. It was good lesson, and though I think we could address the differences in beliefs , we won't. Her tutor is the sweetest lady with a large family and is pregnant in Texas. She seems so physically uncomfortable, I don't want to add stress to her life right now. I will probably send her an email detailing our problems with the program.not with her. Another time , another place we would refute the book item by item. I want her pregnancy to go well, and feel like this is not the time. It's a little sad for our daughter who was already bonding with the other kids. It is just not the place for our daughter.

[G5052]

This^ makes me smile. Thanks for the suggestions.

 

We decided to withdraw her enrollment; refund or not. We have paid for the first semester and facility fees only. It was good lesson, and though I think we could address the differences in beliefs , we won't. Her tutor is the sweetest lady with a large family and is pregnant in Texas. She seems so physically uncomfortable, I don't want to add stress to her life right now. I will probably send her an email detailing our problems with the program.not with her. Another time , another place we would refute the book item by item. I want her pregnancy to go well, and feel like this is not the time. It's a little sad for our daughter who was already bonding with the other kids. It is just not the place for our daughter.

 

I respect that so much.  Our experience with Challenge was that nearly all of the parents had no idea what was going in class or what the books said that their kids were reading.  Most of the parents dropped them off and were barely involved otherwise.  Being the type of parent I am, I read all of the books and made every effort to periodically sit in class and probe what was going on from both my kid and the tutor.  And even as a Protestant, there were things that came up that I flagged to talk about at home.

 

Mine never got to Challenge II though.  It just wasn't meeting my goals, and I sold everything this summer because I can't see myself ever going back as a Challenge Director after mine graduate.  Not my cuppa tea.

 

I LOVE Sister Wendy BTW.  What a great lady.  I recently found her "big" book again when we remodeling, and it brought back happy memories.  We went through the whole thing when my kids were younger, and we watched some of her PBS shows.  Her tone and approach is so much more positive than the "How Shall We Then Live" series.  I remember seeing part of it in the late 1970's in college, but I only remember that I didn't like him and that it seemed so depressing.  The content didn't stick at all.