Did your child need additional practice when using AOPS?

[Penelope]

I have seen this idea just lately that AOPS does not have enough practice or review.

 

Have you found that to be the case and if so, what else did you use?

 

Last year my student used the pre-algebra book. It seemed to me to have plenty of practice and review. He did fine with the algebra placement test and is now in the intro to algebra book. At the beginning of pre-algebra, he played on alcumus a bit, but not much.

 

Am I missing something? Are most people doing more than what is in the book?

[Woodland Mist Academy]

My daughter is using the Intro to Algebra book this year as well. We're doing all the problems in the book, the videos (after doing all the problems), and mastering each chapter on Alcumus.

 

It takes quite a bit of time. I can't imagine adding more math. If she was struggling, I might drop the challenge problems and supplement with a different program or rethink math entirely.

[kiana]

I would say more that there are some specific topics that people found did not have enough instruction for *their* children (exponents in particular have been mentioned frequently).

 

I think you will know if your student is struggling -- if so, it is a good idea to have a cheap used book around of the same level from which you can pull additional practice problems.

[SkateLeft]

My son hasn't needed any additional practice. He's used AoPS from Pre-Algebra through Intermediate Algebra. However, he loves math and does a lot of other math-related things, including classes in computer science, physics, astronomy, and structural engineering.

[Arcadia]

My older is almost done with intro to algebra. He would need to review with a SAT prep book in a couple of years time to refresh his memory and up his speed.

 

Everyone use the book differently. Some add on Alcumus, some don't. I let my kids take their time when working out the problems in the book. I use old standardised tests as end of year practice to check for retention and to built up speed.

[Space station]

No, I don't think AOPS need supplementing. To me it seems like the most complete curriculum I have ever seen. We do supplement, but that is more for diversity and to give a fun break from the rigor. My kids love it though, even though it is challenging.

[Embassy]

I don't supplement AOPS.  We also use Zome Geometry, but I don't view that as a supplement to the curriculum.  The curriculum can easily stand on its own, imho. We use the videos and the book.  I used to use Alcumus, but am finding the book and videos alone to be enough. 

[Penelope]

 

 

It takes quite a bit of time. I can't imagine adding more math. If she was struggling, I might drop the challenge problems and supplement with a different program or rethink math entirely.

This is where I am-- I can't see how there would be time for all that is already there plus more problems. It's a full program. But then I wonder if I am missing something.

 

I guess it's also just a more unsettling kind of feeling when the challenge problems aren't expected to be all correct, but that it's okay to have to struggle with some of them. It's just harder to feel confident that there is mastery of every topic. I do have some other books. Maybe it would make me feel better to have him do some word problems from them to make sure he is used to seeing different wording.

[Luckymama]

Nope (pre-algebra through precalculus; we'll see what happens with calculus next year *shivers*)

[Woodland Mist Academy]

. Maybe it would make me feel better to have him do some word problems from them to make sure he is used to seeing different wording.

 

That might be a good idea, just to ease your mind. :)  

[crazyforlatin]

This is where I am-- I can't see how there would be time for all that is already there plus more problems. It's a full program. But then I wonder if I am missing something.

 

I guess it's also just a more unsettling kind of feeling when the challenge problems aren't expected to be all correct, but that it's okay to have to struggle with some of them. It's just harder to feel confident that there is mastery of every topic. I do have some other books. Maybe it would make me feel better to have him do some word problems from them to make sure he is used to seeing different wording.

I think Pre-A is enough, but for DD, a couple of problems involving opposite trains meeting at a certain point (may not have been trains but you know THOSE problems) didn't seem enough. For additional word problems, I like Zaccaro as he provides various levels of challenge, some of them more difficult than AOPS challenging problems. I think I like Zaccaro as a supplement but every time we've done his problems, both DD and I find ourselves eager to get back to AOPS. I can't figure it out.

 

Maybe more experienced AOPS can let us know whether those challenging problems are that necessary or what it means in terms of the SAT if the kids can't solve them. Of course those who are long-term users are on a different level so it may not even apply to me. I guess SAT scores are on my mind now that we finally reached the big leagues. Do I continue with AOPS or the traditional way, what path will be more efficient in terms of doing well on the SAT? Is that just too practical of a question when it's supposed to be for the love of math?

[Arcadia]

Do I continue with AOPS or the traditional way, what path will be more efficient in terms of doing well on the SAT? Is that just too practical of a question when it's supposed to be for the love of math?

I think Regentrude commented that test prep for SAT/PSAT/ACT is still essential to get use to the timed format regardless of textbooks/curriculum used.

 

I might just let my older have a go at the math portion of the 2014-15 SAT practice test. All the topics are mixed together which is what I like. Give kids the practice of switching their thinking from one topic to another fast. My older is used to pacing at a minute per multiple choice but my younger dawdle.

https://satonlinecourse.collegeboard.org/SR/digital_assets/assessment/pdf/0833A611-0A43-10C2-0148-CC8C0087FB06-F.pdf

 

ETA:

My older told me he knows he needs to be good at his math because all the careers he pick needs math. Ever the pragmatic.

[Kinspired]

Just to share our experience, my dd used AOPS Algebra through Precalc, and we didn't do any supplementing. She hasn't yet taken the SATs but she did take the SAT Math 2 and did quite well, despite running out of time and not finishing all the problems. I agree with Regentrude about prepping to get used to timed format because we apparently neglected to do that. :)

[boscopup]

I think AoPS has plenty of problems and review, but for some topics, MY son needs more practice/drill in the very basics before he goes deeper in AoPS. Note that he's also young (started the book at just turned 9). Exponents was a biggie. Singapore 5 didn't have that much practice. I used Dolciani to give him drill, then went back to AoPS, which he then cruised through. Fraction/decimal conversions was another topic he needed more drill in (I gave him one section of exercises in Dolciani to remedy that - took all of a single day). Most topics he's been ok so far, but those were topics that had more practice in elementary math. Because of that, I plan to have him do Jacobs Algebra prior to starting AoPS Intro to Algebra. Again, he's young and has plenty of time. I'm not in a hurry to get to calculus, and having a strong foundation in Algebra is extremely important.

 

I don't think this issue is a deficit of the AoPS program. I'm just following what my young child needs. I also am not trying to finish the book in one year. We'll likely take about a year and a half. If your child doesn't need extra practice, don't worry about it. :) For some kids, it might be a maturity issue (using the program at a younger than intended age). For others, it might be a learning style issue - the kid just does better with a bit more drill before going deep into problem solving. I'm not sure which of those is the issue for my son, or if it's both. I'll see how he does later with books that aren't reviewing elementary math, when he's older.

 

My son finds Dolciani to be ridiculously easy after using AoPS, so I think AoPS is the correct route to go for him, even if he occasionally needs a little extra drill from Dolciani. I think our Dolciani use has added no more than 2 weeks to the total time spent on Prealgebra so far. I only use it when I see he's struggling with the Problems/Exercises in AoPS more than normal.

 

We do not use the AoPS videos or Alcumus at this point. We do use every single problem in the book, including all of the Challenge problems. He does very well with the Challenge problems, usually only having a few that he needs a little help with.

 

In short, if your child is doing fine, you don't need to supplement AoPS with any extra drill or review. It is a complete program. Just because my child needs a little extra on occasion doesn't mean anything about your child. :)

[EndOfOrdinary]

My son really is enjoying the Intro to Counting and Probability book. He liked Venn Diagrams, but you could tell the concept was not rock solid so we got a quicky workbook and did a few. I think this happens with all curriculum. I remember staying late after school a few times when I just knew I was not getting a math concept completely. It does not make the program bad. It means we all think differently and brains are not one way fits all. Some things stick right away, others not so much.

 

Many people seem to be jumping on the AoPS bandwagon and having their younger kids try to fly through the books. If you try to cram the chapters in or treat the text like traditional program, then yes I do not think it has enough problems. If you realize the goal of the program is not to have the student memorize the way to crunch numbers, but to actually ruminate with the concepts until the knowledge sinks in then it should be fine. The latter is scary for some people so they think the program needs supplementing.

 

Personally, the short number of dense problems is what my son and I like about the program.

[regentrude]

My kids both needed additional practice for one topic: simplifying expressions especially with parentheses and different signs, early in the algebra book. I created some extra practice problems for them, because they had trouble being careful enough about signs - a typical maturity issue reported by many, that resolved through patience and some extra practice.

Other than that, the problems in AoPS have been completely sufficient for mastery.

[regentrude]

. Do I continue with AOPS or the traditional way, what path will be more efficient in terms of doing well on the SAT? Is that just too practical of a question when it's supposed to be for the love of math?

 

THE most important prerequisite for success on the SAT is a thorough conceptual mastery of the math. A student who has successfully been using AoPS will have that most definitely.

In addition, targeted test practice that familiarizes the students with the style of questions, the format of the test, and the timing, is necessary irrespective of which math program you use.

 

There is no need to switch to a different math program if AoPS is a good fit for your student. The program does a superb job in teaching math. you simply need to add some short term test prep in the few weeks leading up to the test - but you'd need that with ANY math program you'd choose.

 

 

[Chrysalis Academy]

My kids both needed additional practice for one topic: simplifying expressions especially with parentheses and different signs, early in the algebra book. I created some extra practice problems for them, because they had trouble being careful enough about signs - a typical maturity issue reported by many, that resolved through patience and some extra practice.

Other than that, the problems in AoPS have been completely sufficient for mastery.

 

I'm glad you said that, I'm noticing the same issue with Shannon.  I'll have to create some targeted practice for this type of problem.  Thanks!

[regentrude]

I'm glad you said that, I'm noticing the same issue with Shannon.  I'll have to create some targeted practice for this type of problem.  Thanks!

 

I have two words for you:

colored pencils!

 

To solve the problem of careless mistakes with signs when expanding parentheses, I had mine use two different colors for plus and minus signs which forced them to pay specific attention. Solved the problem within a couple of weeks.

[crazyforlatin]

I have two words for you:

colored pencils!

 

To solve the problem of careless mistakes with signs when expanding parentheses, I had mine use two different colors for plus and minus signs which forced them to pay specific attention. Solved the problem within a couple of weeks.

I remember now your mentioning this a couple of years ago. Just today DD had the same problem, careless copying, careless expanding. She knows this stuff but gray is not the best color for signs when there is gray everywhere.

[Arcadia]

She knows this stuff but gray is not the best color for signs when there is gray everywhere.

Color pencils are useful for intro to geometry too, or geometry in general. For example those SAS, SSS congruent triangles questions and the AAA similar triangles.

[regentrude]

Color pencils are useful for intro to geometry too, or geometry in general. For example those SAS, SSS congruent triangles questions and the AAA similar triangles.

 

Yes!

We found this immensely helpful for the difficult problems. Using the same color for items identified to be the same (sides, angles) was a great tool to develop proofs for complex relationships.

[kiana]

Yes!

We found this immensely helpful for the difficult problems. Using the same color for items identified to be the same (sides, angles) was a great tool to develop proofs for complex relationships.

 

This is another great idea I need to use when I teach trigonometry. 

[Guest motherof6mom]

My first ever post on these forums.  I am starting AoPS Pre-Algebra for the first time after using Saxon for 17 years of homeschooling!  The main reason is, that my second oldest daughter ended up falling in love with math (she says it was despite Saxon), studied theoretical math at the University of Michigan, is starting her PhD in Algebraic Geometry/ Number Theory at the University of Wisconsin this fall, and LOVES the AoPS books.  

 

She and I sat down and went through the first several topics, and she felt that it was very thorough.  I was so nervous about what looks like the lack of drill that I'm so accustomed to w SM, but she reassured me that my youngest will have a very thorough Pre-A course when we are done with this book.  I'm feeling more confident about switching, but since we don't start school until Tuesday, ask me how I'm feeling in a week from now!

 

Best of luck to all my fellow homeschoolers out there.

 

RuthAnn