K girl can't memorize- help!

[bleeglaser]

I've taught two of my children to read so far.  Both boys.  They learned their phonograms with flashcards and lots of repetition until they mastered them.  They had the visual and auditory and the physical when we played games where they jumped on the correct flashcard.  My daughter started Kindergarten at home this year.  I've been trying to get her to learn her phonograms since she was three.  She couldn't retain the sounds so I figured she just wasn't ready.  I never pushed it.  She still loves to learn.  She's learned a few phonograms now.  There is a disconnect between memorizing though.  For example she can recognize 1-5, 7, and 0 but has issues with 6, 8, and 9.  She can remember the four sounds of O but not the two sounds of E or three sounds of A.  I don't understand it and I'm getting frustrated.  Repetition is not working for this child.  She's not catching on and she's "behind".  Behind her brothers certainly and even behind what she would be expected to know before kindergarten.  I don't know how to teach her where she will retain the information.  Any suggestions for a child that has a hard time memorizing?

[mom2bee]

How is she studying the phonograms? It is possible that you haven't found her mode of learning (and equally possible that she'll just need more time, she's only in K)

 

Which phonograms does she know reliably so far? (please list them out.)

 

Jumping on the correct flashcard isn't always the most effective way to do the physical part of learning if you want to learn sounds and symbols. Some other methods that you might try adding to your study repertoire are: 

• Finger spelling the phonogram while saying its sounds
• Tracing the printed phonograms while saying the sounds
• Tracing a texturized version of the phonograms (like sand paper) while saying the sounds
• air-writing the sounds
• Putting 3 extra large print phonograms on the ground and having her find the phonogram based on its sound and tap it with her foot.
• underlining the correct phonogram
• molding the phonograms out of clay and tracing them

Also, does she know the basic 26 phonograms and steadily recognize them? If not then perhaps using rhymes to remember the formation of letters will help her.

 

Maybe you should switch the focus to handwriting and letter formation until mid-1st grade. Some kids really do just take longer than others. When did you formally start K? Its not even September yet so maybe you are a little anxious, but she needs more time....

 

You say she's been at them since she was 3, but kids grow and change a lot and they do it all on their own time table. Can you put the focus on fluent handwriting and copywork? and continue to use the phonograms as an avenue to work on prereading skills like blending, chunking, syllables, etc?

[mommymonster]

Has she had her eyes checked? You mention that she has trouble recognizing 6, 9, and 8. They look pretty similar if your vision needs assistance. Just a quick thought...

[OneStepAtATime]

Agree you might want to consider getting a vision screening through a developmental optometrist (even if normal eye screenings have shown normal vision).

 

Maybe she needs a different approach or more time.  Have you looked at AAS/AAR?

 

Does anyone in your family have a history of issues with reading/phonological awareness?

 

For my own kids, we ended up having to break everything down into even smaller parts and are using Barton Reading and Spelling to do it, but your child may not need anything that intense.  What you might do, though, is give her the free student screening off the Barton site (linked below).  You would need to do the tutor screening first.  Both are free and fairly simple to administer.  It is not screening for dyslexia or anything like that and there is no obligation to purchase anything.  It just does a kind of preliminary check of certain auditory glitches among other things.  If she can't pass it, then that might indicate you need to seek out some additional information/evaluations or a different program to help her with possible issues before trying to go back to what you are currently using.  My DD passed with flying colors.  DS, shockingly to me since he was very articulate from a very early age, did not.  He needed some remediation in certain specific areas before we could move forward with basics of reading.

 

http://www.bartonreading.com/tutors.html#screen

 

http://www.bartonreading.com/students_long.html#screen

[bleeglaser]

"Putting 3 extra large print phonograms on the ground and having her find the phonogram based on its sound and tap it with her foot."

That's what I meant by we jump on the cards.  Thank you for the other suggestions.  We will try them this week.

 

"Also, does she know the basic 26 phonograms and steadily recognize them?"

No she doesn't know them all.  She can sing the alphabet song but she only recognizes the listed phonograms below.  We don't teach the letter names until after they know the sounds.  We also don't use rhymes because that's an additional step in her memory.  It muddles up the learning and creates an obstacle.  See A, think apple, then think É’, eɪ, aË.

 

She knows phonetics of O, C, D, F, G, S, Qu, and B.  She is really struggling with A, I, and E.

She knows the letter names by site of V, Z, Y, O, L.  She doesn't even recognize 3 of the 5 letters in her own name when I showed her the whole alphabet.  T, E, A.  She can spell her name TYLEA and say the letter names to you in that order.  She can even write them in her own way.

She knows 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, 0 and is really struggling with 6, 8, and 9.  But if she counts from 1-10 in her head she can point to 6, 8, or 9 and tell you it's 6, 8, or 9.  She just can't remember the word six, eight, or nine.

 

 

I haven't started her handwriting yet because we normally learn our phonograms first and then work on how to form them.  I don't expect their fine motor skills to be established enough for writing decent until 1st grade.  Should I get her a short, fat pencil if we need to take the writing route?  We use fat dry erase markers a lot.

 

My husband had tracking issues and his siblings all needed glasses.  His brother is dyslexic as well.  When I called him this morning he suggested taking her to an eye doctor just to rule out the possibility.  

[OneStepAtATime]

If there is a history of dyslexia in the family then she may very well be facing that issue and need things broken down into much smaller chunks over a longer period of time or may need a different approach.  But there may be other issues, too, as you have said you are thinking of pursuing.  

 

I highly recommend giving her the student screening on the Barton site.  Make sure you are both well rested and cannot be interrupted.  And make sure there are no distractions so she can focus.  The test isn't terribly long and like I said it is free and easy to administer.  Several people on this board have found it useful.  It might help you target where there may be trouble areas that can be addressed besides possible vision issues.

[bleeglaser]

I'm watching the tutoring session now.

[MomatHWTK]

I would probably go with just the individual 'short' and 'long' sounds to start, rather than 4 sounds for "O".  It may really be just too much information to organize right now. 

[mom2bee]

I haven't started her handwriting yet because we normally learn our phonograms first and then work on how to form them.  I don't expect their fine motor skills to be established enough for writing decent until 1st grade.  Should I get her a short, fat pencil if we need to take the writing route?  We use fat dry erase markers a lot.

Sometimes, just using your pointer-finger and tracing over the letter is helpful. Learning that motion, getting that kinestetic feedback and having that experience of seeing+saying+feeling+doing is helpful.

 

Why not try and see if it at least helps while you are pursuing other options/possibilities. You could type up phonograms in 40-something size font and print them out, let her trace over them with her finger and say the sound(s) as she traces it. Let her mold it out of clay-dough and every now and then you can (and possibly should) try her with a fat dry erase marker.

 

Its all about getting that info into her long term memory. I say focus on 2 or 3 phonograms a week--put some finger trace sheets in the car, in her room, in the kitchen. Let her spend 10-seconds throughout the day tracing and saying those sounds. Sometimes, doing a 10 minute work session in the morning and twenty 10-second sessions through out the day can be very helpful to kids. During your concentrated work time, you could play a "find the phonogram" type worksheet or simple game, nothing strenuous, she is still young. Yes, she's been at it for years, but she's only in K.

 

My husband had tracking issues and his siblings all needed glasses.  His brother is dyslexic as well.  When I called him this morning he suggested taking her to an eye doctor just to rule out the possibility.  Then the lovely ladies on this board can probably offer you lots of useful feedback and guidance on how to proceed from their.

 

 

[OneStepAtATime]

I'm watching the tutoring session now.

Cool.  :)

[Ottakee]

I would see about a developmental optometrist to look at the eye stuff.

 

For reading, my girls couldn't learn to read that way.  We went with the I See Sam books www.iseesam.com or www.3rsplus.com  You can even print out the first 2 sets for free if you google that (my computer won't let me past a link here)

 

What is so different about this system is that they start out with just FIVE sounds (not 26+) to learn and then they work on blending those 5 sounds into words.  The first 5 sounds are I (long I as in the word I), ee (the 2 ees together saying the long sound---always presented together on a card), s, m and the short a sound.  They then blend these into the words I, s-ee, and S-a-m for I see Sam.  The first 2 books are ONLY these 3 words made out of the 5 sounds.  Kids get much more success this way with a lot less to remember all at once and keep straight.

 

From there they SLOWLY start adding in sounds and blending into new words.  The program moves much slower than most and provides a lot more practice with each new sound and word (no suddenly needing to blend all short a words at once type thing).  you can go as fast or as slow as you need to with the program and NO handwriting is needed.

 

Since the eye tracking might be an issue, look on the websites for the "notched card" which helps the kids with tracking as they read---and is a simple 3x5 card that you cut a notch out of.  Any spelling work can be done by making little letter times with each SOUND on them (like the ee together, sh together, etc.)

 

As weird as it sounds, the first 2 books are the HARDEST and it gets easier after that.  It took us WEEKS to learn those 5 sounds and 3 words here and over time my dd was reading a new book a day.

[bleeglaser]

Well that Barton screening was painful.  She didn't pass.  There is a clinic that does LiPS in my area....

[bleeglaser]

The thing is she did great identifying the syllables and she can repeat one sound at a time.  She can't however remember several in a row every time and forgets the sounds she heard and is suppose to repeat in a sequence.  She did great with section B, and borderline on section C, and section A she failed because she was breaking them into syllables.  It's a memory issue.  Remembering the sounds, remembering the instructions, remembering the process of the task.

[OneStepAtATime]

If you have more questions regarding the screening, you might contact Susan Barton.  She is actually very approachable.  Several here have talked to her, whether they bought her system or not.

 

You might also consider getting a screening through an audiologist.

 

Many here have found a full evaluation through a neuropsychologist or educational psychologist to be extremely helpful for finding not just the weaknesses but also any untapped strengths.  Our own evaluation was HUGELY helpful, although we were not able to go through a neuropsychologist.  I found out things I didn't even know to ask about (like DS does better with color images BY FAR than black and white but with DD it doesn't affect her either way).

[OneStepAtATime]

Books you might think about reading:

 

The Mislabeled Child by Brock and Fernette Eide

The Dyslexic Advantage by same authors

Overcoming Dyslexia by Sally Shaywitz (hate the title by the way)

Homeschooling Your Struggling Learner by Kathy Kuhl

 

This website might help, too, and Sandy posts on this board if you have questions:

www.learningabledkids.com

 

 

[Pen]

The program I used for my ds, www.highnoonbooks.com -- their reading intervention and Sound Out chapter books, does not require memorizing phonograms. She may be a bit too young for it though. It starts at beginning level, but I recall may have been suggested for age 7 and up who are still not reading. OTOH, my own thought was that it would have worked well earlier, if, perhaps, I had photocopied pages to be more enlarged print for a younger person.

 

MUS for math worked well for him.

 

I think an abacus (Japanese or Chinese type) would have been helpful, but only got one much later.

[Ottakee]

Sounds like a more formal eval might be in order to help you figure out what is really going on---visual, auditory, dyslexia, etc.

 

That said, The I See Sam books worked for my daughter even when she couldnt' do any of the skills listed.  She didn't have rhyming down, or the memory stuff, or auditory processing, etc...........but she did learn to read.

[PeterPan]

Yup, you want to get evals. My ds is similar and I'm using a neuropsych who specializes in dyslexia. Eye check with a good COVD doc will be fine, but you probably have more going on, sorry. Our psych said he'll be definitive, even at this age.