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Ok we've taken on too much schoolwork...help me pare down


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It's so easy to help other people pare down, but doing it myself isn't easy!

 

My ds12 seems to have a handle on things.  He is done before lunch, and the two outside classes he is taking will take him to about 1:30 pm which is healthy for a 7th grader.

 

My dd10 and I are working hard and yet school is lasting all the way past 2:00 with an 8:30 start and no long breaks.  She's doing:

 

Horizons Math

Winston Grammar

Evan Moore Daily Language Review

CAP Writing and Rhetoric

Piano (piano alone takes about 40 minutes and it is a commitment for her.)

What your 5th Grader Needs to Know (this fulfills our state requirements and it's pretty fast.)

Bible

 

The things that I do not consider necessary are:

Latin

Pentime

Typing Web

McGuffey (she reads aloud to me from this but she also is reading aloud in 2 other subjects.)

 

I am thinking of cutting all of the above. I hate to drop Latin but we just don't have the time in the day! It takes a good 30 minutes per day commitment, and it's the type of thing, that if you miss a few days, you really have to go back and review a bit before moving on. 

 

How about Typing?  Can a 5th grader put that off and devote more time to it later?

 

 

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I'd drop Pentime, typing, and McGuffey, and make a Latin review system she can operate independently. Flashcards, Quizlet, etc. (If you're using CAP look at headventureland.com) Have her do the Latin review daily, so even if she misses the main course that day she doesn't take any backward steps.

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Typing put off until Summer

 

I would not count Piano as school time if it takes 40mins a day. I'll count Piano as extracurricular. School kids only do music for 45min per week here unless they sign up for after school band.

 

For Latin, just do daily review until you are ready to move forward.

 

8:30 to 2pm is not so bad if it includes snack and lunch time.

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Move the typing and McGuffey to summer.

 

I wouldn't count piano as school time.

 

The grammar, language review, and CAP seems excessive. Can you do daily language review each day with grammar, and then continue daily language review with CAP when grammar is over?

 

 

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Well we can change grammar to 3x per week. That helps.

 

Piano counts for her because my dd is a wiggly willy and can't sit still too much. So I have to factor it into the equation. My dd can handle about 4 hours of concentration and mostly sitting still. Not calling piano school wouldn't really help. :) she loves it but it still affects her life.

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It's so easy to help other people pare down, but doing it myself isn't easy!

 

My ds12 seems to have a handle on things.  He is done before lunch, and the two outside classes he is taking will take him to about 1:30 pm which is healthy for a 7th grader.

 

My dd10 and I are working hard and yet school is lasting all the way past 2:00 with an 8:30 start and no long breaks.  She's doing:

 

Horizons Math

Winston Grammar

Evan Moore Daily Language Review

CAP Writing and Rhetoric

Piano (piano alone takes about 40 minutes and it is a commitment for her.)

What your 5th Grader Needs to Know (this fulfills our state requirements and it's pretty fast.)

Bible

 

The things that I do not consider necessary are:

Latin

Pentime

Typing Web

McGuffey (she reads aloud to me from this but she also is reading aloud in 2 other subjects.)

 

I am thinking of cutting all of the above. I hate to drop Latin but we just don't have the time in the day! It takes a good 30 minutes per day commitment, and it's the type of thing, that if you miss a few days, you really have to go back and review a bit before moving on. 

 

How about Typing?  Can a 5th grader put that off and devote more time to it later?

 

Drop Winston Grammar altogether. 

 

Alternate EM and CAP; not sure how CAP is set up, but could you do a lesson or a unit or whatever, every day until that is finished, and then do a couple of lessons or whatnot of EM?

 

Drop reading aloud from McGuffey.

 

I might drop Pentime.

 

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I'd drop the Daily Language Review. I just don't think you need Winston and DLR both. if you feel like they're providing really different things (which, yeah, they sort of are...) why alternate them. I haven't used Winston but when I looked at it I didn't think it seemed like it was going to be all year every day, though I could be wrong...

 

Agreed with others about dropping Pentime and McGuffy and Latin.

 

Why does piano take her that long? My boys do their piano in much less time. I mean, maybe if they were really gifted or we were aiming for something different with it - I don't know your and her goals - but for just practicing and learning to play an instrument for the joy of playing, I feel like it shouldn't necessarily be that long a practice time absolutely every day.

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Hmm Silver Moon I totally need to check that out. That would also explain why we are moving so fast through CAP..

 

Ellie/ I can't really just drop grammar altogether because I don't think Daily Language Review includes enough grammar. But I will look into it. Thanks.

 

Then drop Evan More. :-)

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I'd alternate the CAP with the grammar, and drop the bolded; she'll pick up typing sufficiently fast to type her papers in due time.

 

I didn't hack off the Latin because she'll probably need a foreign language for HS and anyway, I read in another thread where it is required for your state.  Although, If I was hell-bent on not doing it, a state requirement wouldn't make me and I'd find a way around.

 

ETA:  I see you've switched to Rosetta Stone, which I guess meets your state requirement.  Not sure if you ever used it before, but DD and DS found the Rosetta Stone French really useless, and it contains no grammar, so is really just basic conversational and doesn't provide the student with effective building blocks, IMO.

It's so easy to help other people pare down, but doing it myself isn't easy!

 

My ds12 seems to have a handle on things.  He is done before lunch, and the two outside classes he is taking will take him to about 1:30 pm which is healthy for a 7th grader.

 

My dd10 and I are working hard and yet school is lasting all the way past 2:00 with an 8:30 start and no long breaks.  She's doing:

 

Horizons Math

Winston Grammar

Evan Moore Daily Language Review

CAP Writing and Rhetoric

Piano (piano alone takes about 40 minutes and it is a commitment for her.)

What your 5th Grader Needs to Know (this fulfills our state requirements and it's pretty fast.)

Bible

 

The things that I do not consider necessary are:

Latin

Pentime

Typing Web

McGuffey (she reads aloud to me from this but she also is reading aloud in 2 other subjects.)

 

I am thinking of cutting all of the above. I hate to drop Latin but we just don't have the time in the day! It takes a good 30 minutes per day commitment, and it's the type of thing, that if you miss a few days, you really have to go back and review a bit before moving on. 

 

How about Typing?  Can a 5th grader put that off and devote more time to it later?

 

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It's so easy to help other people pare down, but doing it myself isn't easy!

 

My ds12 seems to have a handle on things. He is done before lunch, and the two outside classes he is taking will take him to about 1:30 pm which is healthy for a 7th grader.

 

My dd10 and I are working hard and yet school is lasting all the way past 2:00 with an 8:30 start and no long breaks. She's doing:

 

Horizons Math

Winston Grammar

Evan Moore Daily Language Review

CAP Writing and Rhetoric

Piano (piano alone takes about 40 minutes and it is a commitment for her.)

What your 5th Grader Needs to Know (this fulfills our state requirements and it's pretty fast.)

Bible

 

The things that I do not consider necessary are:

Latin

Pentime

Typing Web

McGuffey (she reads aloud to me from this but she also is reading aloud in 2 other subjects.)

 

I am thinking of cutting all of the above. I hate to drop Latin but we just don't have the time in the day! It takes a good 30 minutes per day commitment, and it's the type of thing, that if you miss a few days, you really have to go back and review a bit before moving on.

 

How about Typing? Can a 5th grader put that off and devote more time to it later?

I would cut EM and pentime if she doesn't need it. Honestly, my dd9 is working 8:30 to 2:30 with a lunch break including 30 minutes of piano and a 30 minute read aloud...I don't think you are that far off but if you need to lighten up there are some things to cut...

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I find my eldest can only spend less then 2 hours generating output. As in playing piano, doing math, working on grammar, spelling, or discussing things. After that his quality of output drops to almost nothing and then the more he does just undoes his previous good output.

 

I know how hard it can be when you want to do more, but they just can't handle more.

 

Eta: he can spend a lot of time listening to educational stuff in addition to his less then two hours of output. He just can't output anymore. We do go year round and get in more stuff that way.

This is a good point. We pretty much go back and forth between input subjects and output subjects. That helps.

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My boys are 10.

I have struggled with our schedule taking too long as well.

I decided to prioritize a few things that I feel are most important for us this year.

 

For us that is math, composition (we use CAP, but I'm using another program too--one or the other is daily here, some lessons are short), and keyboarding.

 

Keyboarding is important to me because I want them to be able to keyboard composition papers!

 

My secondary subjects are relatively short (15 minutes or less) each, but there are lots of them. Some are similar to your subjects. I double up our daily language review lessons, and we do them orally to save time. I use MCT grammar, and it's pretty quick.

 

If I don't get to something on a given day because another subject was longer, it's fine with me. Something gets shortened or skipped most days here.

 

Looking at your schedule, I think I might try to group and alternate your language arts stuff.

 

Something like this:

 

Daily: Horizons Math, Bible, I'd put 15 minutes of keyboarding in there, but I can see why it might not be a priority

The 5th grader Needs to Know is fast to do daily? I might think about reading through that on Saturday mornings myself. Lots of little stuff adds up. Oh, is this part of her read aloud? If so, I'd keep it daily.

 

Alternating days or weeks (ie finish a CAP lesson, then spend some time on the other set, then back to CAP):

CAP alternating with Grammar and Daily Language Review, integrate your handwriting into this stuff perhaps

 

I don't know what to tell you about Latin. I don't have time for it, and plan to do word root type study at some point instead.  Can you just review on days that are taking too long otherwise? I do that with spelling here.

 

Is there a subject that could be done weekly, say on a Saturday morning? I do that here, and it helps.

 

But deciding to prioritize those three subjects has made a huge difference in how I feel about our days here. I balance our time, so if CAP, or whatever, takes a long time, those secondary subjects are going to be cut or shortened.

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Yeah, she is just playing piano. NO major goals.  But it seems to take about half an hour to forty minutes....sometimes a little less and sometimes a little more depending on what has been assigned.  I would not expect to make progress with less than half an hour.  But, if it keeps edging towards 40 I might say something to the teacher.  I think her summertime teacher tended to pile on a lot more than her year round teacher, who is also much more experienced.  So, it should hopefully be more toward the 30 side but we are still feeling out the year.  THanks for the input.

 

 

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You're not doing all of this EVERY day, right? Not every subject / program needs to happen every single day. Sometimes a longer focused period of time on fewer days a week yields more fruit (less is more). :)

 

Unless I'm missing something, I see a schedule of a total of 4 hours a day, which could be done 3 hours in the morning, lunch break, and then an hour after lunch:

 

5x/week = 2.5 hours

- Horizons Math = 50 min.

- Piano = 40 min.

- Bible = 20-30 min.

- Latin = 30 min.

 

3x/week = 90 min.

- CAP Writing & Rhetoric = 30 min.

- Winston Grammar = 15-20 min.

- What Your 5th Grader Needs to Know = 40-45 min.

 

2x week = 90 min.

- Typing = 15 min.

- Pentime = 15 min. -- but consider dropping, unless she really NEEDS handwriting practice

Evan Moore Daily Language Review = 15 min.

- McGuffey (consider dropping, unless she really NEEDS a reader program for assistance; otherwise you can do reading aloud practice from your Literature, History, Science…) = 15 min.

- catch-up time / hands-on projects = 30 min.

 

 

Just a thought! BEST of luck in finding what works best for your family! Warmest regards, Lori D.

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Oh, this is where I need to be. We started slowly and added on as we went but now we're to the point where we need to cut. 

 

Here's our line-up:

Math- BA 4B-45 ish minutes daily, Horizons 3 for fluency practice and review 10 min

Writing- TC currently and I was doing the writing assignments from PT as well but I'm thinking about dropping these

Grammar- Reading PT 2x a week, and Practice Town daily, Language Mechanic 2 x a week

Spelling- Apples and Pears daily

Reading- McGuffey's and Webster's- daily (he does need to work on oral reading and I like that it is slow building but he hates it, I'm considering just having him do some of our content reading aloud)

Science- Sassafras Science with both of the kids 2x a week, Microbiology 2x a week RA from spine and SSR the other 2 days

History- I read from a spine about 2 days a week (I have some books for him to read as well but not on what we are currently studying and we're a little science heavy right now anyway!)

Geography- Reading from Book of Marvels 1x a week and Current Events - CNN Student News daily (I'd actually like to add more here but perhaps that is being overzealous/insane) 

Lit- We are doing Narnia and associated readings daily

 

We were doing typing but ds already made it through the program, we did Typing Instructor plantinum and he really liked it and finished it in just a few weeks. Now he just gets practice typing various things. I let him type anything that is a sentence or more. So he is doing some daily. I make him use proper form when typing anything for school. 

 

Now that we are doing TC grammar is feeling a bit redundant, however we are over half way through both paragraph town and the grammar section of TC so after that it will be a bit more balanced. I need a better plan with our content. I still had on the docket to add latin as well but it won't fit right now.

 

We are at it most of the day but we do break for lunch and watch some type of doco or educational show, to give all of us a break and usually the baby goes down for a nap then. We start the day with a walk and ds and dd often do their independent/mostly independent things before breakfast but that is such a small amount for both of them, it takes maybe 30 min total. Otherwise content/reading takes about 2-3 hrs total, dd has about 15 min independent work and about 1 hr with me one on one. Ds has another couple hrs with me. Anyway, we're a bit inefficient here, which I'm sure is readily apparent by the rambly mess of me trying to describe our day. It is our first foray into a longer day and we are still working out the kinks.

 

If nothing else perhaps that will help you feel better about your day :) Typing it all helped me as well as I knew it was getting a bit unwieldy in the last few weeks :)

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Well, I would say drop the Latin because I did before ever starting the school year. I was considering doing it with ds. Dd is a senior and never took Latin. She's scored top 1% in the nation on her college entrance exams and is eligible for a 4 year tuition scholarship at her choice college, so Latin is not a true necessity. 

 

If handwriting is something she needs work on and Pentime is helping, I would say let her continue it a couple of times a week.

 

Let her do the typing on her own time if she likes it, if not drop it. 

 

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I would drop all the grammar and just do Latin.

 

 

 

Horizons Math

Latin

CAP Writing and Rhetoric

What your 5th Grader Needs to Know (this fulfills our state requirements and it's pretty fast.)

Bible

 

 

Piano and Typing in the afternoons or evenings.

 

 

 

Also, I would NOT do What your 5th Grader Needs to Know if you are also doing full history and science. Even if it is fast, it's time and energy. Put that energy into subjects you are already doing.

 

 

 

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I would drop all the grammar and just do Latin.

 

 

 

Horizons Math

Latin

CAP Writing and Rhetoric

What your 5th Grader Needs to Know (this fulfills our state requirements and it's pretty fast.)

Bible

 

 

Piano and Typing in the afternoons or evenings.

 

 

 

Also, I would NOT do What your 5th Grader Needs to Know if you are also doing full history and science. Even if it is fast, it's time and energy. Put that energy into subjects you are already doing.

As to What your 5th Grader...that is all she is doing for history/science/literature/geography.  We are taking it slow and adding to it, discussing it and looking things up but it's not difficult or time intensive.  

 

I did NOT think of that regarding the Grammar.  That is something I am really going to have to consider over the weekend.  LFC does teach a lot of grammar...

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As to What your 5th Grader...that is all she is doing for history/science/literature/geography.  We are taking it slow and adding to it, discussing it and looking things up but it's not difficult or time intensive.  

 

I did NOT think of that regarding the Grammar.  That is something I am really going to have to consider over the weekend.  LFC does teach a lot of grammar...

 

 

Streamlining the grammar into Latin (and supplemented by her work through CAP W&R) will give more time to add to What Your 5th Grader Needs to Know.

 

You can always do a heavier grammar year next year or next semester. I'm not familiar with LFC specifically, but Latin is generally plenty of grammar if you are really doing Latin (not just vocab).  Latin has other benefits too...and it would be easier to add in a heftier grammar next year after a year of solid Latin rather than the other way around.

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Well, I would say drop the Latin because I did before ever starting the school year. I was considering doing it with ds. Dd is a senior and never took Latin. She's scored top 1% in the nation on her college entrance exams and is eligible for a 4 year tuition scholarship at her choice college, so Latin is not a true necessity. 

 

If handwriting is something she needs work on and Pentime is helping, I would say let her continue it a couple of times a week.

 

Let her do the typing on her own time if she likes it, if not drop it. 

 

Agree with this.  My oldest took one year of Latin in high school, loved it, learned from it.... but with only that, she got a near-perfect score in both Reading and English on her ACT, has Ace'd all of her CC classes (4) so far, and her Comp teacher kept two of her papers to use as models in future classes.  Her history class (which she took before Comp) was all note-taking, lit analysis, research and writing (no textbook and no rote memorization, except for a few significant dates), and he told her she should be able to CLEP Comp.  She took it anyway, for the experience, and was top student in the class. 

 

While the one year of Latin was beneficial and enjoyable (to my dd), years and years of it for the sake of getting good test scores are apparently not needed. ;)  Now if you have other goals for her to learn Latin, that's another story.  But if you're doing it primarily for the boost in test scores, I say drop it.  You can always reconsider it another year. 

 

Sometimes when you wait, it's too late to be able to go very far in it (whatever "it" is).  But sometimes, waiting produces more fruit because the student is more interested, and has their own reasons for wanting to study that topic. 

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Thanks Donna.  We went back to Rosetta stone and she is flying through all she had previously learned. I think it will go more smoothly this time because I showed her that you are allowed to move on even if it isn't perfect. Last year she progressed very slowly because she thought that the little red boxes meant you had to re-do the section until they were all green.  I explained that you need a 80% or so to move on, and I don't think the program lets you move on until  you score high enough anyway.  So now, she likes to use my computer instead of the ipad, where she can check the green little checkmark to show she moved on.  :o)

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I pulled up my files to see if I could find some of our weekly schedules from when my dd was that age.  We switched computers, so the farthest back I have on this machine is 6th.  My dd sounds very similar to your dd, and that age was very challenging.  We ended up doing VT for some developmental vision problems.  Turns out she had terrible visual memory, which was making the academics (spelling, etc.) extra hard.  

 

Anyways, here are some of the tidbits from those days.

 

-She started the day with independent reading time.  She wakes very slowly and I wake up totally ON, so this has just been better for her.  She still does this, years later.  So literally give her an hour to read each morning and put it on the schedule, check.  

-We did math first thing and then had a play break.  This was before our evals btw.  With the evals we found out about her processing speed.  Now we do math LAST if at all possible.  Latin we finally gave up on, and it was for the processing speed.  I see you've jumped to spanish.  Good call.

-Hour of Power--It looks like we came back after that play break and did a bunch of LA together.  We did Shurley for grammar, always short and sweet (goal 5-10 min sessions).  Writing, I think we did a variety of things.  Spelling, we were still doing a page daily of dictation. Handwriting, yup we were still trying.  That didn't improve till we did VT and OT.

-Content and Read alouds--You seem to be enjoying things the way you're doing it.  

-Handicraft--I have this down on the list.  I may have been using it as a goal to finish and work toward.  We did a lot of ice skating at the noon skate, and that gives you another goal to work toward.  It looks like she does sports, I assume in the evening?  She might benefit from some things to break that up and let her brain rest and get out her energy.  Like get a puppy and have her walk the dog every day for 30 minutes.  You mentioned piano.  My dd has been practicing piano during the day.  It's super, super good for brain integration, so it's another good thing to let her do during the day for a break.  Try to alternate those Power Hours with something more physical to shake things up, rather than working for 4 hours straight, mercy.  

 

None of my business, but see if you can get her workload (as you tally it for what it would be on a good day) into the maybe 2 1/2 hour range before content, 3 1/2 hours with content (history/science).  That way she's at 4 1/2-5 when you add the reading.

 

For us, bad day causes?  

-transitioning off the weekend.  I started giving her assigned work on Sunday night to help with that.

-too heavy a workload, wearing her out early in the week and leaving us dragging and grinding at the end.  I make very careful schedules now that attempt to balance the workload better.

-Mary Poppins days.  Sometimes the wind blows, oy, and off they fly.  We make room for Mary Poppins days.  If I know things are heavy and not able to be doubled up, I only plan for them 4 days a week.  And I make our daily chunks doable and realistic so she's not getting worn out.

 

If I could politely suggest, less is more.  Like a LOT less is a LOT more.  When we got really whompy at that age, what I'd do is start with a blank slate, and rather than whittling I'd ask WHAT REALLY NEEDS TO BE THERE.  Then I'd generate that new list, assigning time values to each thing and STOPPING when I hit that 2 1/2 hours before content, 3 1/2 hours with content (or whatever numbers you pick).  To me read alouds go in that total btw and are important.  You can overlap stuff too, like a handicraft and a read aloud or audiobook.  But yes, fresh schedule, refined and limited.  To me it's:

 

-independent reading

-typing

-rosetta stone (because she enjoys it and will blow through it)

-spelling and grammar with mom

-piano

-content (history/science)

-lunch

-writing (I'd axe the CAP and go much more streamlined and short, personally.  I think people are going way too involved, way too young.)

-math

-swim team

 

Set a meeting time for that grammar/spelling time with Mom and hold firmly to it.  That way she has her three independent things that she works to get done before she meets you for Mom time.

 

On the writing, at that age my favorites were Writing Tales, anything writing from a prompt (because it's SHORT, engaging, and let's you assign the tax for a finite time like write for 10 minutes and STOP), Wordsmith Apprentice, outlining Muse magazine articles.  Short bursts with engagement.  

 

Btw, since she likes the iPad, check out Inspiration software for the iPad.  You can use it to outline those Muse articles, take notes from a text or lecture, prepare a composition, etc.  My dd does a TON on the iPad now, and it totally unlocked her.  The spell check lets them see the words correctly more often, which improves their spelling.  Typing for her is a better way to get her compositions down that handwriting.  She keeps track of her whole life on there.  I just switched her over to OneNote for all her checklists.  She uses to do apps, all sorts of things to keep her life organized.

 

 

 

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Bad advice I received over the years?  (or rather, advice that turned out not to have been the best for our situation)

 

-drop the sport because she's not going to be good at it.  Cousin to this, don't practice the sport so much, because she's not going to be good at it and it's keeping her from her academics.  Yes it was taking a lot of time, but it was pleasurable to her and good for her in ways we didn't realize.

-do math first because it's hard for her.  She has low processing speed, so all that was doing was wearing her out.

-don't buy xyz program you think you want because you only have one child.  This child is complex to teach, and I should have made much more free to buy expensive things that gave me that help, rather than 2nd-guessing and always creating stuff myself and basically just burning myself out.

-unit studies turn out dumb kids who regret that their mom taught them that way and you shouldn't do them.  A unit approach can be fabulous with connected learners.  WTM tends to be very linear and some kids learn better with rabbit trails and connections.

 

About the CAP writing and my comment on writing.  I haven't used the CAP stuff because it's so new.  In general though I've found that my dd seems to have *language* way ahead but *organization* a few years behind.  This is common to wiggly kids.  So for instance we did WWS1 for 8th, WWS2 for 9th, and may do WWS3 as part of our mix for 10th when it comes out.  We did them in a more advanced way, a faster pace, etc., but the *thought process* was smack on for her at those ages and she was developmentally ready to sit down and DO them and not slog, cry, get overwhelmed, take forever, whatever.  In our house, a program that you can be on top of and actually DO is a good thing.

 

So my opinion is you have a lot of time to explore a lot of types of writing.  The goal is that they can get their thoughts onto screen/paper comfortably.  A lot of magic has to happen along the way, like the ability to type, etc. etc.  Structured writing requires working memory and executive function, and those can be a challenge with wiggly kids.  I just think accomplishing a formal writing program is less important than the underlying skills.  And if they have pet interests or things you can harness, all the better. 

 

But that's your total rabbit trail.  Just wanted to make clear why I was seemingly slamming CAP (which I'm guessing is a fine program) without having used it.  :)

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