Algebra 1 Math help.

[srainbow]

I will put my daughters schedule below, but I am just stuck. We made it through lesson 78 in Saxon Algebra 1 last year. This year I was hoping to finish it and then start alg. 2 Saxon.

 

Here is the problem. She hates it. Algebra should be fun or at least comfortable IMHO. I have a math degree, it is not that I don't know the material backwards forward.

 

If we decide to use some other book, we will be following the schedule of Alg. 1 in 9th, Geometry in 10th, Algebra 2 in 11th and trig. in 12th. Will she be ready for the sat or psat on this schedule?

Also she doesn't want to "start over" Algebra 1 with another book, but she just is constantly complainng that she hates the way math is going!!

My husband thinks it is part attitude and that we should finish her out in Alg 1 Saxon even if we just take our time. Such a struggle with this daughter. And I don't want her to be a guru in math, just up to speed...she has the ability...but also prepared for tests later and for the minimum amount of math she will need to take in college. Her strenghths lie  more with writing, foreign language and artistic venues.

Thanks for listening

 

[EKS]

When I needed to start over in Algebra II with my son (he had done the first 5-6 chapters of Foerster's), we used Lial's Intermediate Algebra, and I would give him a problem (usually the example problem) and see if he could solve it easily.  If he could, we would move to the next problem and he wouldn't get homework problems for that problem type.  If he couldn't, I'd show him how to work it and then he'd do a few practice problems and have homework on it as well.  This allowed him to move through already mastered material quickly, but what it also did that I wasn't anticipating was that he would frequently figure out how to do problems he didn't know how to do on his own (the Lial book is so well arranged that it makes it fairly easy to make these sorts of jumps).  He enjoyed being able to do this.  Also having him try the problems before having them explained (when explanation was necessary) kept him engaged as did having him do a practice problem right afterwards. 

 

Anyway, if you're thinking of moving to a different program, I'd recommend the Lial books and using them as I described above. 

[Mike in SA]

No question in my mind -- if she hates Saxon, and you are comfortable with math, then AoPS is the only way to go.  You can "breeze" through the first few chapters, but you might find that Saxon misses a bunch of the early, foundational theory.

[Jann in TX]

I switched my dd from Saxon to Lial after she hit a wall with the program (math indifference turned in to math despair!).

 

The traditional method was like a breath of fresh air!

 

Each text has a unique progression-- Saxon taught a little bit of everything-- so finding placement can be a pain. 

 

For the first few chapters have her work the chapter reviews to see if she needs to go back and study particular lessons.  It will also give you an idea of when to start working whole chapters.

 

I typically assign the odds (sometimes skipping the first multiple choice problems) and always skipping the 'Relating Conepts' questions. For mid chapter reviews I assigned either evens, odds or all depending on what the student needed.  I assign all of the Chapter Review problems.  The tests in the text are fine-- I photocopied them for dd.  All answers needed are in the back of the student text.

 

The Lial texts are on block scheduling so each lesson is 2 days of classwork. Tests usually take 1 hour on average.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[srainbow]

Thank you for responses. So far I am hearing that I could start over and just go through more quickly the areas she really knows in a different book.

 I could use Lial's or Teaching Textbooks.  Any others (besides Aops).

I ordered cheap copies of Lial on Amazon to look at. I already have TT Algebra 1 books. They are just a little less rigorous, and I am afraid my younger DD won't be ready for tests and college math.

I do want to use Saxon still, I used it with my older through Advanced Math, but the older DD is more mathy than this one. It is so hard to have the younger not enjoy math when I know she is capable of the work if presented some different way? in maybe a different book, and capable of even kind of enjoying it.

 

Any other suggestions are also greatly appreciated.

 

[MarkT]

posted to your other one:

For math  consider A+ over Saxon if she struggles:

http://aplusses.com/zencart/

 

You may want to download a sample to let your DD try it.

Why do Saxon again if she dislikes it?

 

 

[Jann in TX]

I taught Saxon for over 10 years at the high school level.  Saxon made sense to ME-- but when I started using the program I was the teacher-- and I already KNEW the math and had made the connections that Saxon is asking students to make without assistance. 

 

Saxon is a different METHOD of teaching.  Over 30% of my students would have been better off with a different program.  By better off I mean better understanding-- being able to move smoothly into college level maths with good understanding.

 

For some students who do not think like Saxon-- it sucks the life right out of them (very unnecessary frustration) all in the name of 'rigour' (rigour means nothing if understanding doesn't happen!). 

 

I had my heart set on using Saxon with my own girls-- I did from K-87-- but the program stopped working for my daughters.  In the end my dds were part of the 30%.

 

I moved back to a traditional program.  It is much easier to reteach missed/insecure concepts using a traditional program.

 

 

[kiana]

I ordered cheap copies of Lial on Amazon to look at. I already have TT Algebra 1 books. They are just a little less rigorous, and I am afraid my younger DD won't be ready for tests and college math.

 

She will be much, much better off with a slightly more simple program that she UNDERSTANDS than she will with a too-rigorous program that she does not understand.

[jenn-]

Has this been an ongoing issue of hating math or is it specific to Algebra 1?  If she has whined and complained about math for more years then not, I would go with this being an attitude issue unless you see she really doesn't understand what she is doing.  If she really doesn't want to start over with a different curriculum, tell her the complaining has to stop. 

 

This is coming from someone that had to go back to the beginning of her DD's pre-algebra book and start back over after she got to the halfway point and I realized she truly had no clue what she was doing.  Going through it all again solidified it for her.  She has never really shown herself very math capable though so her complaining was taken differently.

[srainbow]

 

 

 

For some students who do not think like Saxon-- it sucks the life right out of them (very unnecessary frustration) all in the name of 'rigour' (rigour means nothing if understanding doesn't happen!). 

 

I had my heart set on using Saxon with my own girls-- I did from K-87-- but the program stopped working for my daughters.  In the end my dds were part of the 30%.

 

I moved back to a traditional program.  It is much easier to reteach missed/insecure concepts using a traditional program.

 

 

Thank you! My older daughter did great with Saxon. This daughter is just so different!  As we know kids can be. Did you want to share any books that you used? I have 3 choices on the table: Teaching Textbooks, LIals and Aplus math. Would love to find a really nice fit for her. I think we will breeze through many of the earlier topics as Saxon did teach her something.

 

[srainbow]

She will be much, much better off with a slightly more simple program that she UNDERSTANDS than she will with a too-rigorous program that she does not understand.

 

I think you may be correct about this. So hard to let go of Saxon. Sigh.... especially since I feel we have wasted almost a full year.  Now she may not finish Geometry and Algebra 2 until the end of her junior year. sigh again... Not the end of the world but for testing,  I would like her to have the best college choices. sigh...not in my hands, the universe I mean...

Thank you so much for your input!

 

[srainbow]

Has this been an ongoing issue of hating math or is it specific to Algebra 1?  If she has whined and complained about math for more years then not, I would go with this being an attitude issue unless you see she really doesn't understand what she is doing.  If she really doesn't want to start over with a different curriculum, tell her the complaining has to stop. 

 

 

I think it is related to the difficulty or style of the teaching in Saxon. She is generally an outstanding worker, although she is 14 and can be a bit "moody" ?  After thinking and hearing from others, I think changing the book may help a lot and if she really doesn't want to? than you are right about the complaining. I am going to impress on her how much happier I think she will be and how fast we can go through those topics that she may have really learned..

This ain't always easy is it?

 

[srainbow]

posted to your other one:

For math  consider A+ over Saxon if she struggles:

http://aplusses.com/zencart/

 

You may want to download a sample to let your DD try it.

Why do Saxon again if she dislikes it?

 

Thank you, I will be looking this over as an option.

 

[Mike in SA]

Thank you! My older daughter did great with Saxon. This daughter is just so different!  As we know kids can be. Did you want to share any books that you used? I have 3 choices on the table: Teaching Textbooks, LIals and Aplus math. Would love to find a really nice fit for her. I think we will breeze through many of the earlier topics as Saxon did teach her something.

 

Lial's, then.  TT is generally a couple of grade levels behind, and though I can't say I really know all that much about A+, I would still steer toward the more classical approach of Lial's.  It's the spiral that is the killer in Saxon...

[jenn-]

I think it is related to the difficulty or style of the teaching in Saxon. She is generally an outstanding worker, although she is 14 and can be a bit "moody" ?  After thinking and hearing from others, I think changing the book may help a lot and if she really doesn't want to? than you are right about the complaining. I am going to impress on her how much happier I think she will be and how fast we can go through those topics that she may have really learned..

This ain't always easy is it?

 

 

I'm not sure I would impress on her how starting over would be so easy because that will be a tempting idea.  Unfortunately, you will eventually hit concepts she hasn't covered yet and you will be back to where you are now unless it really is a difference in learning styles.  I still vote that you sit her down and have a grown up conversation about complaining over work that has to get done no matter whether she likes it or not.  Bosses won't tolerate it later in life.  Again, this is only if you see she can do the work by passing Saxon's chapter tests.  If she is failing them, then it is a totally different issue.

 

My DD is really not a mathy child.  This year she is signed up through The American School for high school.  I knew that there was no way she was going to be able to understand algebra the way that most programs teach it, so this summer she worked through the first half of MUS Algebra 1 and will continue to work the rest of the book concurrently with the one she just started for her high school.  MUS is the ONLY program that has ever worked for her and I know she needs to have been introduced to the concepts before she hits them in her other book.  I'm pretty sure she was ready to throw the computer the year we tried TT.

 

[srainbow]

As an update...at this time I have received copies of the Lial textbook. I bought an older  (and cheaper) edition. It looks really good to be. More familiar certainly as it was how I was taught in the traditional manner. I think my dd is going to like it. This means we will teach a separate geometry when she is done with this Beginning Algebra text. If all goes well, we will use Lial's intermediate Algebra as her Algebra 2 when she is done with that. One day at a time, however, I think algebra might go a little better now.