How do they take notes in college?

[regentrude]

 I believe the way another school does it - with the the dss making the first contact on behalf of the student - is better.

I believe it prevents any awkwardness on behalf of both parties, & also prevents the instructor from (intentionally or accidentally) poking & prodding for personal information to which they're not really entitled. Many instructors are not really well versed in the laws & it can put the student in an awkward position when they're having a quick casual conversation.

 

So how do they do that exactly? How much of the conversation  between student and instructor is handled through DSS?

It seems to me very inefficient to use a middle man so that the student can avoid talking to the instructor. Does the instructor tell DSS to tell the student that she can only take the test overlapping the common exam time, which DSS then transmits to the student, who then lets DSS know about her schedule, which DSS relays to the instructor.... and so on? Something that takes two minutes of face-to-face conversation can easily create a long chain of emails... I guess I do not fully understand what that school is doing

[hornblower]

I believe what they're doing is a) sending the letter ahead of time to the instructor, rather than having the student give the letter to them & b ) offering to have dss attend the first meet (ahead of class) if required. Apparently  b ) doesn't usually happen/isn't required but it's offered.  In first class, when the instructor is taking attendance, they already know & they might just make note of who it is &/or ask to see them at break or just send an email to them to say feel free to see me to talk about accommodations.  The ice has already been broken, see?

 

For extra time, the instructors/students have the choice to either arrange it themselves or to have the student write the test through DSS at an entirely different time.

I think it's not the talking/making arrangements later on that threw dd - it's the walking in cold & saying  'HI, HERE'S A LETTER SAYING I'M WEIRD AND MAKING YOUR LIFE DIFFICULT BECAUSE OF THIS THING THAT'S POTENTIALLY A PITA TO YOU!'  ;)  That takes a certain level of cojones, kwim?

 

One of dd's instructors was apparently really weird about taking the letter & talking to dd about it (& it was the last one she did so dd was a pro by then so I don't think it was HER awkwardness that was the issue). The teacher had a deer in the headlights look & kind of grabbed it & didn't say anything & essentially ran away.... They're sorting out by email now what they'll be doing for the first test.

 

[Bootsie]

At the university where I teach, students are provide a letter from DSS to hand to the professor.  It is in a sealed envelope and the letter outlines the accommodations (but provides no information regarding the disability).  It is the student's responsibility to request the letter and to hand it to the student.  

 

If a student needs a note taker, I am supposed to ask in class for two volunteers (without revealing the source of the student in need of this assistance).  I am supposed to select two responsible students to do this.  These note takers should be provided the day the student presents me with the letter.  When I am teaching an entry level class and know none of the students, I am not sure how I am supposed to select responsible students who meet all of the criteria set out by DSS (especially when I am supposed to do it in the next two minutes.)  The volunteer note taker can use the "carbon paper" provided by DSS to take notes and then deliver the second page to DSS.  Or, the volunteer can take their notes written on their own paper to DSS and wait while DSS photocopies the notes.  I am not aware of the university compensating the volunteer in any way for this time and trouble.  

 

DSS has a testing center where students who qualify for extended time can take exams.  Students need to schedule that at least one week in advance and time slots fill early during midterms and final exams.  If a student fails to schedule the exam in the testing center, I am responsible for providing accommodations.  This can be extremely difficult as I do not have access to the resources to do so effectively.  I do not always have time immediately after an exam to allow a student to continue an exam in my office.  Sometimes I have another class to teach.  Last year I shared an office with three other professors.  Among the three of us we had close to 2000 students.  Needless to say, the office was not a quiet place to complete an exam.  

 

I have experienced a number of situations in which it is difficult to determine a way to handle accommodations in exactly the way the DSS letter states while being fair to the student who needs the accommodations while maintaining academic integrity.  For example, how do I give double time on an in-class pop quiz?  If I have the student schedule in at DSS ahead of time, it no longer seems to be a pop quiz.  

 

Finding the best solution for a number of different disability situations can be complex.  I find that if a student talks to me directly, we are much more likely to be able to develop the best solution for those situations. 

[Reefgazer]

I think the carbon paper and requesting another student assist with accommodation is odd, but I do agree with Regentrude that accommodations should be handled by the student personally by talking to the professor.  If a student has a disability, there is nothing to be ashamed of and this is one step in internalizing that principle.  "Hiding" the accommodations is just making the fact that some need accommodations seem, as you termed, it "weird".  Also, it is really helpful if the student learns to advocate for themselves, as Regentrude said.  This need not be awkward.  At the first class meeting, as part of my introductory spiel/going over the syllabus routine, I mention that if anyone has disability accommodations please bring them to me ASAP so that I can make the accommodations from the get-go.  I am not allowed to make accommodations retroactively, so it is important that I get that accommodations note quickly. 

I believe what they're doing is a) sending the letter ahead of time to the instructor, rather than having the student give the letter to them & b ) offering to have dss attend the first meet (ahead of class) if required. Apparently  b ) doesn't usually happen/isn't required but it's offered.  In first class, when the instructor is taking attendance, they already know & they might just make note of who it is &/or ask to see them at break or just send an email to them to say feel free to see me to talk about accommodations.  The ice has already been broken, see?

 

For extra time, the instructors/students have the choice to either arrange it themselves or to have the student write the test through DSS at an entirely different time.

I think it's not the talking/making arrangements later on that threw dd - it's the walking in cold & saying  'HI, HERE'S A LETTER SAYING I'M WEIRD AND MAKING YOUR LIFE DIFFICULT BECAUSE OF THIS THING THAT'S POTENTIALLY A PITA TO YOU!'  ;)  That takes a certain level of cojones, kwim?

 

One of dd's instructors was apparently really weird about taking the letter & talking to dd about it (& it was the last one she did so dd was a pro by then so I don't think it was HER awkwardness that was the issue). The teacher had a deer in the headlights look & kind of grabbed it & didn't say anything & essentially ran away.... They're sorting out by email now what they'll be doing for the first test.

 

 

[regentrude]

I believe what they're doing is a) sending the letter ahead of time to the instructor, rather than having the student give the letter to them & b ) offering to have dss attend the first meet (ahead of class) if required. Apparently  b ) doesn't usually happen/isn't required but it's offered.  In first class, when the instructor is taking attendance, they already know & they might just make note of who it is &/or ask to see them at break or just send an email to them to say feel free to see me to talk about accommodations.  The ice has already been broken, see?

 

For extra time, the instructors/students have the choice to either arrange it themselves or to have the student write the test through DSS at an entirely different time.

I think it's not the talking/making arrangements later on that threw dd - it's the walking in cold & saying  'HI, HERE'S A LETTER SAYING I'M WEIRD AND MAKING YOUR LIFE DIFFICULT BECAUSE OF THIS THING THAT'S POTENTIALLY A PITA TO YOU!'  ;)  That takes a certain level of cojones, kwim?

 

One of dd's instructors was apparently really weird about taking the letter & talking to dd about it (& it was the last one she did so dd was a pro by then so I don't think it was HER awkwardness that was the issue). The teacher had a deer in the headlights look & kind of grabbed it & didn't say anything & essentially ran away.... They're sorting out by email now what they'll be doing for the first test.

 

See, I do not think presenting the letter says the student is weird and making my life difficult. I have 17 students with accommodations this semester - it's a procedure I am well familiar with.

I appreciate if a student gives me her letter in a timely manner and gives me the opportunity to have a quick conversation about test times etc. If we give common exams to 500 students, the students with accommodation MUST take the test so that it overlaps the common exam time, so we need to find a way to make that happen. Scheduling it for a different time would require us to construct a different exam, which is immensely time consuming (and then opens the issue of "fairness" )

 

The PITA are the students who think that the Testing Center rule of one week notice and the instructor's rule of one week+1day notice so they can arrange for their reservation at the testing center, do not apply to them because they are "special". The problem are the ones who appear one day before the exam and expect accommodations. Denying them the accommodation (which we technically could, since they did not submit their request in a timely manner to be taken care of) is potentially the bigger headache than last minute crazy scrambling to arrange for their testing - but it is a hassle no instructor needs.

PSA to all parents of students who need accommodations: PLEASE make sure your student adheres to the deadlines! We need to arrange for seating at the testing center, for enough proctors to be available, and for exam copies to be available there. Any student who is entitled to accommodations will receive them, but a disability does not absolve students from meeting scheduling deadlines.

 

[Bootsie]

See, I do not think presenting the letter says the student is weird and making my life difficult. I have 17 students with accommodations this semester - it's a procedure I am well familiar with.

I appreciate if a student gives me her letter in a timely manner and gives me the opportunity to have a quick conversation about test times etc. If we give common exams to 500 students, the students with accommodation MUST take the test so that it overlaps the common exam time, so we need to find a way to make that happen. Scheduling it for a different time would require us to construct a different exam, which is immensely time consuming (and then opens the issue of "fairness" )

 

The PITA are the students who think that the Testing Center rule of one week notice and the instructor's rule of one week+1day notice so they can arrange for their reservation at the testing center, do not apply to them because they are "special". The problem are the ones who appear one day before the exam and expect accommodations. Denying them the accommodation (which we technically could, since they did not submit their request in a timely manner to be taken care of) is potentially the bigger headache than last minute crazy scrambling to arrange for their testing - but it is a hassle no instructor needs.

PSA to all parents of students who need accommodations: PLEASE make sure your student adheres to the deadlines! We need to arrange for seating at the testing center, for enough proctors to be available, and for exam copies to be available there. Any student who is entitled to accommodations will receive them, but a disability does not absolve students from meeting scheduling deadlines.

 

 

Most professors I know are more than happy to assist in providing necessary accommodations, but as Regentrude points out, it is important for students who need and have a right to these accommodations to follow procedures.  I have had students hand me a letter at the beginning of an exam (yes as I am passing out the exam) stating that they are to receive accommodations.  I have even had students hand me a letter when I call "time" at the end of the exam and state that their accommodations allow them to take extra time.  These are students who have not provided me any information before the exam time.  The letter from DSS states something along the lines of "accommodations are effective immediately upon receipt of this letter."  DSS has told our faculty that they can require students to schedule with them a week in advance and if the student does not do so, DSS does not have to provide accommodations but that the instructor MUST provide accommodations and cannot require that the student provide any prior notice or make arrangements on a timely basis.  The only person in the situation who appears to have a responsibility is the professor.  

 

Last semester I had a student who wanted his accommodations to extend to double time on online homework.  The students had until the end of the semester to complete them (approximately 3 months).  He wanted that doubled to 6 months.  When he was told that he would receive an "Incomplete" until the work was completed, he threw a fit saying that he was being penalized for his accommodations and needed to receive his grade at the same time other students did.  I am not a miracle worker; I can't provide distraction free testing environments for extended times at a moment's notice and I can't provide a grade when the work hasn't been completed.  

[regentrude]

 

Last semester I had a student who wanted his accommodations to extend to double time on online homework.  The students had until the end of the semester to complete them (approximately 3 months).  He wanted that doubled to 6 months. 

That is simply ridiculous. And it harms everybody who has a legitimate reason to request extra time.

[hornblower]

:svengo: whoa, you guys! I'd go mad dealing with that!

[angela in ohio]

A student who's diagnosed as dysgraphic may also be able to get notes provided for them in a class where typing them is not feasible. Usually, the way this works is Disability Services will hire someone with good attendance and neat handwriting to take notes for the student in question.

 

This is not a given and the quality of student note-takers varies, but it is a frequent possibility.

 

Student note takers has been the accommodation provided in every university I've attended or worked with. This is done through the university office (who pays the note takers), never with individual professors.

 

[vonfirmath]

For the students with dysgraphia, etc.  Is it possible to record the lectures and then slowly take notes later?  Does anyone do that anymore?

 

When I was a Freshman in HS, my dad went back to school and recorded most of his classes (As many as he could get permission too). he'd write as much as he can in class and then go back and listen to those tapes over and over afterward. he also collected names of classmates early on in the semester and arranged to get together to study, etc.  He has no diagnosed disability but I know this was necessary for him.

[hornblower]

Honestly, with the technology available, I don't understand why all lectures aren't recorded & then posted in a password protected site for the students that term. 

Picking up on that instructor evaluation thread from last week, this would help departments with assessment as well.

Everyone is all frantically worried about copyright etc but the sad reality is that probably most people IN the class wouldn't really bother seeing the lecture recordings, never mind Jane Public....  Let the keen people & the people who need the extra review have it.  This would also prevent the sick with flu people from hauling themselves around campus spreading germs all over.



 

[regentrude]

Honestly, with the technology available, I don't understand why all lectures aren't recorded & then posted in a password protected site for the students that term. 

 

Picking up on that instructor evaluation thread from last week, this would help departments with assessment as well.

 

Everyone is all frantically worried about copyright etc but the sad reality is that probably most people IN the class wouldn't really bother seeing the lecture recordings, never mind Jane Public....  Let the keen people & the people who need the extra review have it.  This would also prevent the sick with flu people from hauling themselves around campus spreading germs all over.

 

Making recordings available opens several cans of worms.

Students will stop attending class because "they can always watch the recording". Truth is, they won't.

If they do, many of them will be distracted because they are ding something else simultaneously.

Students don't take notes on recorded lectures. They don't take notes if they have detailed lecture notes. The only way to force them to take notes to process the material is to just give them skeleton notes and leave out worked out problems etc.

For most things, it would suffice if the sick person read the textbook and took notes on it.

 

I am piloting an online lecture this semester. The number one issue students have is that they don't watch the lectures. Since it's asynchronous, they put it off. They won't take notes. They feel distracted.

 

So, there are many good reasons for the sake of overall student performance NOT to make recordings of lectures widely available.

 

Yeah, somebody will say we should not care so much about the underperforming students who don't do the work. You're preaching to the choir. Fact is, with the push for retention, instructors are forced to do everything possible to have more people pass the class - that's why there are quizzes (to give them a "reward" for coming to class), graded homework  etc. Posting lecture recordings is detrimental for the overall performance.

[Bootsie]

Yes, recording and posting lectures can open a can of worms, as Regentrude noted.  Especially in a math or problem based class, planning an interactive presentation to a class versus a videotaped presentation is much different.  Does the video focus on the presenter or on the board and what the presenter is writing?  How is this done in a class which is supposed to be more discussion based?  What if it is not a professor in the class, but a student in the class, who objects to being taped?