Any Art of Problem Solving Prealgebra users?

[Guest Natalia]

Hello Ladies,

 

I was wondering if there are any users of the Art of Problem Solving Prealgebra on this forum. I am getting ready to start my son (7th grader) on it. I am not sure how much would be reasonable to assign every day. I see that there are 15 chapters in the book so about two week per chapter would take about 30 weeks, leaving enough margin. Is this reasonable? How much time did your student spend doing the lesson each day? Any daily schedules that can be found some where? Thanks a lot!

[regentrude]

I have not used the prealgebra text, but six other volumes of the AoPS sequence.

I found it impractical to assign a fixed amount of work to be completed, because the sections and problems vary greatly in difficulty, and not even working each problem myself was sufficient to determine somewhat accurately, how much time it would require of my students.

What worked much better for us was to devote a certain amount of time to math daily (the length of time depended on the student's age and ability to concentrate on math) and to pick up the next day wherever we stopped the previous one.

[Arcadia]

Plenty of threads in the logic stage board. 1st link is on how people use it

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/476133-aops-prea-users-talk-me-through-how-you-use-it/

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/422859-regarding-aops-prealgebra-can-i-just-say/

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/305108-schedule-aops-pre-algebra/

[Norah]

For us, the first 3 chapters took forever. There is no way we could have done a chapter in two weeks. There where some days where we'd only get a couple problems done. We're moving quicker now, but probably still not quite up to a chapter every two weeks. My son is younger though, and our experience might have been different if he were in 7th when we started instead of 4th. I'd assume his math facts would be faster by then. Although most of the slowness wasn't the speed of his math facts but the idea of not brute force working the problems and thinking about how to play with the numbers to make it easier. That was drastically different than how he was used to doing math. 

[marlowefamily]

My rising 6th grader is enrolled in the online aops class, two weeks per chapter on average sounds right, but he actually follows a schedule that is:

Monday: Do simple math problems for the section he is working on, 1-2hrs

Tuesday: Do a few 'hard' math problems, 1-2hrs, I usually have to help him work through these.

Wednesday: Read up on the next section and watch AOPS videos, 1-2hrs

Thursday: Attend online class, ~90 minutes

Friday-Sunday: Nothing planned, but his mom or I will usually spend some time with him to ensure he fully understands the current topic.

[Guest Natalia]

Thanks so much for your input, and for pointing me to other threads on the board.They were very helpful!

 

[texasmama]

I have not used the prealgebra text, but six other volumes of the AoPS sequence.

I found it impractical to assign a fixed amount of work to be completed, because the sections and problems vary greatly in difficulty, and not even working each problem myself was sufficient to determine somewhat accurately, how much time it would require of my students.

What worked much better for us was to devote a certain amount of time to math daily (the length of time depended on the student's age and ability to concentrate on math) and to pick up the next day wherever we stopped the previous one.

This.  We used pre-A last year, and I worked with my students until their brains could not go on.  Last year was an exercise in developing the mental muscle of persevering.  It took all year to really make the adjustment from SM to AoPS in style and difficulty. 

 

I am very much a scheduler, but I did not even attempt to schedule AoPS pre-A.  My boys are doing AoPS intro to A this year, and I've not scheduled this, either.

 

Be aware that the pre-A book is very meaty.  It took us a full year (with a solid 6-8 weeks of detours to other programs to cement concepts).  Even then, we skipped Chapter 14 and went lightly over the geometry chapters.  I think this program could easily be used over two years, particularly combined with other resources.

[Roadrunner]

This. We used pre-A last year, and I worked with my students until their brains could not go on. Last year was an exercise in developing the mental muscle of persevering. It took all year to really make the adjustment from SM to AoPS in style and difficulty.

 

I am very much a scheduler, but I did not even attempt to schedule AoPS pre-A. My boys are doing AoPS intro to A this year, and I've not scheduled this, either.

 

Be aware that the pre-A book is very meaty. It took us a full year (with a solid 6-8 weeks of detours to other programs to cement concepts). Even then, we skipped Chapter 14 and went lightly over the geometry chapters. I think this program could easily be used over two years, particularly combined with other resources.

What did you use to cement concepts? I am preparing for it, so just gathering ideas. :)

[Pen]

We also do math for a certain amount of time per day, generally 1 hour, but it may become longer as my ds gets older.

[texasmama]

What did you use to cement concepts? I am preparing for it, so just gathering ideas. :)

Keys to Algebra and Zacarro's Real World Algebra. I used some Dolciani the summer prior to beginning. At the end of Chapter 5, it was clear my boys needed a lot more practice so we spend six weeks using Zacarro and Keys to. When we returned to the end of chapter section problems, my boys did much better. It did take the six week detour to get there, though.

[Targhee]

Excluding chapters 1 and 2, dd did each section in about 2 days (Day 1: problems and solutions, Day 2: videos, exercises and solutions).  This pace I kind of just copied from the online class schedule.  She spends an average of an hour doing math this way.  With Challenge problems I have her select a number of them (usually about 3/4 of what they have in the book).  She works 90% independently.  We tried at the beginning to have her work for 60 min each day instead of scheduling.  This was problematic for her, as she has a horrible sense of time/duration and is highly distractible.  

[....]

For us, the first 3 chapters took forever. There is no way we could have done a chapter in two weeks. There where some days where we'd only get a couple problems done. 

 

This was our experience, too.  My daughter worked on that book for two years.   :o  If the online class moves so quickly, do they just not do all the problems?  Or do they have a lot of homework?

 

So I don't sound discouraging, that book has some really, REALLY good explanations in it.  Better explanations than any math book I've seen.

[SanDiegoMom]

My "plan" right now is 2 sections per week, with problems first, then videos, alcumus, and exercises. Any end of chapter reviews will get 2 days. But mine is young, so if it stretches to two years, it's no problem.

[Dmmetler]

We did AOPS PA after having done Key to Algebra and both LOF PA books. The first four chapters took about 6 months. The last 8 took about 3. The exponent chapter took what seemed like forever. DD did 1-2 hours of math a day, and at least attempted the entire book, including challengers, but didn't do anything online.

 

We just started the intro Algebra book, and the first chapter will probably be 2-3 weeks, depending on the challengers go. The problem sets haven't been terribly time consuming so far.

[boscopup]

My son does problems one day, exercises the next day. When we get to review, he spends 2-3 days on that, then 2-3 days on challenge section.

 

You may go faster or slower, depending on the topic, of course. We've occasionally done problems and exercises in one day if the topic was something my son was pretty familiar with.

 

ETA: We don't use the videos.

[EndOfOrdinary]

I think the duration of time also depends on the level of independence. In many instances PreA takes a year and a half if working really independently because the methodology is so foreign. It is a mental game of recognizing your own meta cognition, building stamina and confidence, and stepping outside the box a bit. Once it clicks, then the student can pace fairly well but the book is not designed with pace in mind. The book is designed with concepts and critical thinking in mind. If you are expecting the book to take only one year, or to "flow", then you might need to do significantly more hand holding. The hand holding (to some degree) negates many of the positive features of the book, but it will ensure an appropriate pace.

 

If the pacing is for long range planning purposes, I'd factor two books every three years. Not necessarily that each book will take a year and a half, but that some will be quicker than others. If you are beginning in seventh grade, that will give you four books total before graduation.

[Momof3littles]

This.  We used pre-A last year, and I worked with my students until their brains could not go on.  Last year was an exercise in developing the mental muscle of persevering.  It took all year to really make the adjustment from SM to AoPS in style and difficulty. 

 

I am very much a scheduler, but I did not even attempt to schedule AoPS pre-A.  My boys are doing AoPS intro to A this year, and I've not scheduled this, either.

 

Be aware that the pre-A book is very meaty.  It took us a full year (with a solid 6-8 weeks of detours to other programs to cement concepts).  Even then, we skipped Chapter 14 and went lightly over the geometry chapters.  I think this program could easily be used over two years, particularly combined with other resources.

 

Agree.  I am using it with a 5th grader, and it is slower going.  The format change from SM, the depth, having to struggle more, and having to write things out in a nice, logical, systematic way are things that have been challenges.

 

My student has completed LoF pre-algebra with biology and LoF Physics (along with SM this past year), and while the arithmetic is there, there's a lot of stuff to digest and think about.  I'm going to just encourage him to persevere, to not give up, to recognize that he will learn from struggling through.  We did chapter 1 and part of 2 last year, but it was just too early.  He could do the problems, but not necessarily process all of the depth and so forth.  So we're just going to slog along and see how it goes at whatever pace is necessary.  I am making no attempt to schedule anything.