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Does VT help with "careless" mistakes?


Mukmuk
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DS just went for an exam with an FCOVD and for sure, he'll have to do therapy. He has oculomotor, binocular, and accommodative dysfunction. He has done VT many times, but with the local, rather dodgy OD, and OT based VT. This time, it will be with an FCOVD.

 

The biggest issue ds has is errors that look like they're careless, for lack of a better word. He loves math and does fairly long manipulations of algebraic equations. Too often when working through questions, he'd miss a negative sign or even add one. It doesn't seem like he's unfamiliar with the material - his understanding is really very good. It is frustrating to him that it occurs (he likes high scores on Alcumus), and I would like to help him where possible.  This fella tries hard!

 

My question is, is this issue vision related - perhaps his visual memory is faulty, so he makes these errors? Will VT help? I have his reluctant buy-in for the upcoming therapy, but I thought I could raise this as a possible benefit. Any btdt is highly appreciated.

 

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Anything that is being caused by his vision problems will improve.

 

Since you have a Fellow telling you he needs more VT and has some remaining issues after all the work you've done, it's reasonable to think some of his issues *could* be caused by the vision problems.  I know for us a lot of things changed that I hadn't realized were caused by vision.  

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Thanks OhE.

 

We're just diving right in regardless. I can see that your daughter must have benefitted greatly. I guess I'm running a checklist of potential improvement for us to look forward to.

 

Another question is, ds is a very fast processor, to the point where I wish he'd slow down and just think things through. I wonder if this is because he has reduced input from his eyes (and ears, from CAPD), so he has very little info to work on. Did you see  this in your daughter at all? If you did, did she process slower/deeper after VT?

 

I hope I'm making sense!

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Thanks OhE.

 

We're just diving right in regardless. I can see that your daughter must have benefitted greatly. I guess I'm running a checklist of potential improvement for us to look forward to.

 

Another question is, ds is a very fast processor, to the point where I wish he'd slow down and just think things through. I wonder if this is because he has reduced input from his eyes (and ears, from CAPD), so he has very little info to work on. Did you see  this in your daughter at all? If you did, did she process slower/deeper after VT?

 

I hope I'm making sense!

Processing speed is testing during IQ testing but is separated out when they create a GAI (adjusted score) for kids with disabilities.  In my dd's case, her IQ is fine but her processing speed is quite low.  There's also impulsivity, which is totally different.

 

Some people just process faster than others.  Assuming it's not impulsivity you're seeing, he may just be blessed with a fast processing speed.  Indeed, in our VT we played games with speed to work on using ALL the senses together and speeding up their ability to use their vision.  She's SHOCKINGLY fast now at some things with vision, which is really odd considering her overall low speed.

 

I would ask your eye doc for benchmarks on what you can expect to change.  They're likely to be much more specific to your situation.  :)

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Thanks OhE.

 

Another question is, ds is a very fast processor, to the point where I wish he'd slow down and just think things through. I wonder if this is because he has reduced input from his eyes (and ears, from CAPD), so he has very little info to work on. Did you see  this in your daughter at all? If you did, did she process slower/deeper after VT?

 

 

Processing speed is testing during IQ testing but is separated out when they create a GAI (adjusted score) for kids with disabilities.  In my dd's case, her IQ is fine but her processing speed is quite low.  There's also impulsivity, which is totally different.

 

Some people just process faster than others.  Assuming it's not impulsivity you're seeing, he may just be blessed with a fast processing speed.  Indeed, in our VT we played games with speed to work on using ALL the senses together and speeding up their ability to use their vision.  She's SHOCKINGLY fast now at some things with vision, which is really odd considering her overall low speed.

 

I would ask your eye doc for benchmarks on what you can expect to change.  They're likely to be much more specific to your situation.  :)

Good luck with VT! Keep us posted. We need to have a screening for ds and my guess is that he will need some therapy as well.

 

Just wanted to comment and piggy back on OhE. My ds is a slow processor but he rushes through things and makes careless mistakes often. In his case, as OhE mentioned, it's as a result of impulsivity. He jumps to a conclusion without thinking. When he's actually really thinking, it takes him awhile. So I don't think it's as a result of reduced input...for example on the Wisc, ds got a very low score on symbol search which is a measure of processing speed but relies totally on vision (which is another reason we think we need vt). So, I would think reduction in visual or auditory input would not increase speed, but actually decrease it.

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I would ask your eye doc for benchmarks on what you can expect to change. They're likely to be much more specific to your situation. :)

This is great advice. I'm really excited about therapy and can't wait for more answers before our next appointment :).

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Good luck with VT! Keep us posted. We need to have a screening for ds and my guess is that he will need some therapy as well.

 

Just wanted to comment and piggy back on OhE. My ds is a slow processor but he rushes through things and makes careless mistakes often. In his case, as OhE mentioned, it's as a result of impulsivity. He jumps to a conclusion without thinking. When he's actually really thinking, it takes him awhile. So I don't think it's as a result of reduced input...for example on the Wisc, ds got a very low score on symbol search which is a measure of processing speed but relies totally on vision (which is another reason we think we need vt). So, I would think reduction in visual or auditory input would not increase speed, but actually decrease it.

Tks for the well wishes :).

 

This makes a lot of sense. Perhaps many times, it is impulsivity that I am seeing. I'm crossing fingers :D.

 

Eta: On the wisc, ds is a slow processor. But as you say, NK, symbol search relies totally on vision, at which he has proven weaknesses. Coding relies on handwriting, and ds is dysgraphic. In person, ds does not present as a slow processor- quite the contrary. He is quick, with well thought out responses a lot of the times. He does sometimes jump the gun and makes glaring mistakes though, and therein, the lines blur. Is he fast because he's a good guesser, or a quick processor? I guess we'll just have to find out.

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Good luck with VT! Keep us posted. We need to have a screening for ds and my guess is that he will need some therapy as well.

 

Just wanted to comment and piggy back on OhE. My ds is a slow processor but he rushes through things and makes careless mistakes often. In his case, as OhE mentioned, it's as a result of impulsivity. He jumps to a conclusion without thinking. When he's actually really thinking, it takes him awhile. So I don't think it's as a result of reduced input...for example on the Wisc, ds got a very low score on symbol search which is a measure of processing speed but relies totally on vision (which is another reason we think we need vt). So, I would think reduction in visual or auditory input would not increase speed, but actually decrease it.

Bingo.  You could play some games to work on inhibition.  In the preschool gymnastics program at the Y, they do lots of relay races with a variety of tasks and they do false starts.  You can also try to reign them in, saying you're going to give them a task but that they need to count to 4 out loud with you (slowly) before they start.  Or use a sand timer.  And of course metronome work will be awesome for that.  :)

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Tks for the well wishes :).

 

This makes a lot of sense. Perhaps many times, it is impulsivity that I am seeing. I'm crossing fingers :D.

 

Eta: On the wisc, ds is a slow processor. But as you say, NK, symbol search relies totally on vision, at which he has proven weaknesses. Coding relies on handwriting, and ds is dysgraphic. In person, ds does not present as a slow processor- quite the contrary. He is quick, with well thought out responses a lot of the times. He does sometimes jump the gun and makes glaring mistakes though, and therein, the lines blur. Is he fast because he's a good guesser, or a quick processor? I guess we'll just have to find out.

I don't know what all tests your psych did, but I think ours tested everything multiple ways.  (Neuropsych, plenty of testing.)  So he'd take the results of a test one way and compare them to a test on something similar another way and read the tea leaves.  So hopefully the psych's conclusion on low processing speed wasn't based on a single test that was limited by a fixable vision problem.  Hopefully he saw it other ways as well.

 

Not to be intrusive if you don't want to say, but did any of your diagnoses involve attention issues or EF?  You'd get impulsivity with those.  I don't think of my dd as being hyperactive (and if you met her you would NOT think that), but reality is when she's really in her zone she earns her H.   :lol:   It's this thing she can harness, and of course it's the internal ants that are always eating at her.  But the H and the impulsivity are *not* the same as processing speed.  They seem contradictory, but they're really not.  For instance, if you put her in the kitchen, she can cook you a four course meal faster than you can say zip zoom.  She has it in her mind and the H makes her fast at implementing.  If she gets an idea (add dessert to the meal!), she's going to change paths and BOLT to go do it in an instant.  That's the impulsivity.  BUT if the pot of pasta on the stove starts overflowing, she's going to stand there looking at it, processing, while it flows EVERYWHERE.  (This happens a LOT in our house.)  That's the slow processing speed.  All in the same child.  :D

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OhE, the neuropsych report was done 2 yrs ago when ds was 9. I read it again and the only para which talked about slow processing speed was in that category of the wisc. Ds did not have and tests re attention or EF. He was attentive through the 2 days of testing, and the neuropsychs were/are very sure he does not have ADD/ADHD. Hence they did not test for those, I presume.

 

Thanks for detailing what H and impulsivity looks like in your kid. Hmm let's see- once when fixing a loose floor tile, I made an awful slit on my palm and blood positively gushed. In an instance, ds was up and out the door. He has a blood phobia and I thought he was running for cover. But in the blink of an eye, he was back with the First Aid kit and trying to help me stem the flow. He's fast!

 

Where I'm not sure about whether it's impulsivity- it happens more during academics. Ds sometimes reads instructions wrongly or just assumes that previous instructions apply. This happens for writing tasks (once upon a time, he did WWS, which was a disaster) and much earlier on at the Prealgebra level for math. When math got harder, instructions were read accurately, but transcribing issues started to surface.

 

Thinking this through, perhaps a lot more issues are vision related than I'd realised.

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OhE, the neuropsych report was done 2 yrs ago when ds was 9. I read it again and the only para which talked about slow processing speed was in that category of the wisc. Ds did not have and tests re attention or EF. He was attentive through the 2 days of testing, and the neuropsychs were/are very sure he does not have ADD/ADHD. Hence they did not test for those, I presume.

 

Most often, careless errors stem from EF issues.  They don't frequently stem from ocular-motor issues.  A deficit in the Executive Functions result in what is called "overlooking errors."  When a child makes the mistakes, if questioned, pointed out, and given an opportunity to correct, the child can often make the corrections if he doesn't have any additional underlying LDs in that area.  

 

For example, with mistakes in math calculations, failures to carry a digit, addition errors, etc., in the absence of a specific math disability are often attributed to executive functioning or attention deficits.  Note too.. being attentive during testing is possible for a child even with ADHD if the child is interested in the testing.  A child with ADHD can concentrate FABULOUSLY on things of interest, but then can be inattentive for things that are of little to no interest.  Just noting that in case you weren't aware. 

 

With the carrying forward of instructions or assuming previous instructions apply, that would be more of an attention to detail or careless overlooking of instructions than it would be a vision issue.  The transcribing errors could very well be a vision issue.. might be that you have more than one thing going on, which would make it more difficult on you for figuring out what to do.  

 

I have info on my website about Executive Functioning (definition and such) if you're interested in learning more about it: http://learningabledkids.com/learning_disability_ld/executive_functioning.htm

 

GOOD LUCK with the VT!!  My DS had VT and EF issues.. So, I can relate! ;-)

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