That exponent chapter in AoPS PA is worth the pain

[Dmmetler]

DD is doing the first chapter of AOPS Beginning Algebra, and got to the section on Exponents. I admit, I was dreading it, because that chapter about killed us last year in PA, but she had no trouble with it whatsoever, had no trouble recognizing the rules and how to apply them, and actually was writing them down in her formula book before going to the solutions because she was that confident on them. It was quite a difference, to say the least. So far, Beginning Algebra has been much, much easier and smoother for her than PA was, and I don't think it's that it's easier-I think it's that she learned PA so well that she's just really well prepared.

 

I'm also noticing that she has a much better attitude on math than she had a year ago. There was one problem that got an "eep"-followed by a comment "It's AoPS-if I don't have a "eek" reaction to at least one problem per set, they didn't meet their goals!"-and immediately attacking the problem.

 

So, if you're starting PA and are getting frustrated with those first chapters, hang in there. I really think it's worth it.

 

 

[maize]

Thanks for the encouragement! I think we will be starting AOPS prealgebra sometime this school year.

[wapiti]

So far, Beginning Algebra has been much, much easier and smoother for her than PA was, and I don't think it's that it's easier-I think it's that she learned PA so well that she's just really well prepared.

 

:iagree:

[Julie of KY]

I agree!!!

Take it slowly, the first three chapters of the prealgebra book are a hard transition especially learning all the exponents.

[Roadrunner]

Thanks for writing this. We are on our way there and yes, I have been dreading chapter 2. :)

[Tress]

Thank you for the encouragement!

 

The one thing I'm so not looking forward to is the AoPS-I-have-to-think-longer-than-2-seconds-therefore-the-world-is-ending-and-I-will-never-ever-get-it drama. (We are at chapter 4 of pre-A.) I still have 2 weeks of summer vacation. I need them. :D

[boscopup]

That PreA exponent chapter was evil! Actually, I think it was evil for my son because he just hadn't had enough practice in exponents during elementary math. He knew some very basics, but even Singapore didn't do that much with them. When we worked through the drill of Dolciani's exponents chapter (which was waaaaaaay easier than anything AoPS was offering), we came back to AoPS and he flew through the rest and had no trouble.

 

I've noticed that the hardest chapters for my son have been the ones that he hasn't done much with prior to AoPS. So I'll be having him use another Algebra program before doing AoPS Algebra, as I think that will work better for him. We had to redo chapter 6 because he wasn't totally getting the decimal/fraction conversion back and forth. Did the one section on that topic in Dolciani, and had him do the exercises for Chapter 6 in AoPS again, and now he's doing fine with it, including the harder ones. Phew! That was the first time we'd had any issue since the evil exponents chapter. :lol:

 

My son no longer cries over being stumped by a problem, but he did try to just put question marks by the number and hand his paper in. :tongue_smilie: I handed it right back and said he needed to do the problems with question marks. A second look, and he was able to get all of those problems except one, and then I started working that problem on my own, and he sat there working on it in his head, and he gave me an answer right before I came up with the answer, and our answers were the same (and correct). :D He'd done it a different way, which is fine. It was still quicker than what I did, apparently.

[texasmama]

We began our AoPS Algebra adventure today after completing AoPS pre-A.  I will be very interested to see how my guys retention is from last year.  We were all quite heartened to see so much review at the beginning of the Algebra book.  It is welcome and will help build the confidence.  :)

[EndOfOrdinary]

We start back in a week. Good to know the meltdowns were worth it!

[crazyforlatin]

We began our AoPS Algebra adventure today after completing AoPS pre-A. I will be very interested to see how my guys retention is from last year. We were all quite heartened to see so much review at the beginning of the Algebra book. It is welcome and will help build the confidence. :)

RR is up to no good, I can feel it. DD is feeling good with chapter 1 (more like why is this so easy?), but I know Farmer Fred is just around the corner.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Ok, I have a question for you guys: talk to me from the "other side"!

 

Shannon is mildly accelerated, and bright rather than wildly gifted.  In 6th grade, she accelerated through MM6 and then did Jousting Armadillos, and parts of Zaccaro's Problem Solving and Real World Algebra.  In the spring, she started working through Alcumus.  She enjoys it, she likes the challenge and the hard problems.  She has an 85% average (same as mine!) and so far has only needed help on the Inequalities section - she is solid on equations, but is still working on translating word problems into math, and so the different phrasing of inequality-type problems threw her at first.  My plan is to have her master all of the PreA content on Alcumus before starting the Intro Algebra book.

 

Now that we're back to school full-time, we are ready to tackle the two remaining topics in PreA: geometry and statistics.  I plan to use the PreA book for that.  Here's my question:  can we quickly review exponents (she did fine on the Alcumus section) and square roots, and then dive into Chapter 10, or should we work through Ch. 2 on exponents and Ch. 9 on Square Roots?  I have to confess that everyone's posts about the difficulty of Ch. 2 was a big part of why I didn't want to use PreA in the first place (the other issue being that I find it very wordy and sometimes difficult to follow.  For whatever reason the Algebra book reads much more straightforwardly to me).  I'm kind of second guessing that decision, although I still think JA was the perfect bridge for my particular student.  But this thread has me wondering if we need to go back and do more of the PreA book before starting Intro algebra?

 

Partly I'm just having Algebra jitters - how do you know for sure your kid is ready? I don't want to rush.  But I also reallly like the idea of having most of 7th grade and all of 8th to go through Intro Algebra slowly and deeply - I don't want to feel rushed on the other end, either.  It's hard to know whether to do more preparation, or whether to just dive right in and pull other resources if I find she is having a hard time once we're working on Algebra.  It seems like the Alcumus mastery is a good criterion, but what else should I be looking for?  I feel like she's ready, part of me just wants to go through Ch. 10-14 in PreA and then MOVE ON already!! It feels like we've been doing PreA forever!!!

 

Anyway, pep talks, smacks in the back of the head, or whatever else are welcome!  It's so nice to hear from people who have been through it.

[Dmmetler]

I'd say try chapter 1 of Intro Algebra. If she's comfortable with the exponents/radicals/etc, she shouldn't have trouble. If she does, then I'd go back to PA and revisit, because it's much more explicitly taught in PA. If she did it through Alumcus, I'd think she'd need to be pretty solid (we haven't used Alumucus because DD doesn't like it, but it seems like it's similar in difficulty, even if it's not the same exact problems. 85% on challengers is really good :).

 

 

[wapiti]

Rose, take a look through the ch 2 lessons - maybe you don't have to do it all (or any of it) based on what your dd already knows.  If she can already do arithmetic with exponents and negative exponents, maybe just do lessons 2.1 and 2.2 and the ch review.  If that's the case and you only had time for one lesson, I'd choose 2.2, which is probably the longest one.

 

Ch 9 is short and evenly-paced, as are the remaining chapters in the book - she could probably do them in a week or so each, depending on how many challenge questions you assign.

 

(It's funny, having had multiple kids go through ch 2, it seems so easy looking back at it now, LOL - maybe I learned something.  That chapter is where I first saw the genius of AoPS.)

[Chrysalis Academy]

Thanks, guys.  Deep breaths!!!  But no hyperventilating.  :001_rolleyes:

[Mike in SA]

DS7 loved that chapter...

:ph34r: 

[Luckymama]

DS7 loved that chapter...

:ph34r:

So did dd.

 

And she thought Farmer Fred was "not bad" ;)

[boscopup]

Rose, it sounds like your DD probably has decent experience with exponents and probably wouldn't have issues with that chapter. As I said in my post earlier, my son had problems with the chapter only because he hadn't done much work in the basics. After drilling those basics, he was able to handle the problem solving in that chapter, not having to worry about thinking so hard just trying to do the arithmetic. If they're not strong in the arithmetic behind the problem, it's hard for them to do the problem solving.

[Chrysalis Academy]

Rose, take a look through the ch 2 lessons - maybe you don't have to do it all (or any of it) based on what your dd already knows.  If she can already do arithmetic with exponents and negative exponents, maybe just do lessons 2.1 and 2.2 and the ch review.  If that's the case and you only had time for one lesson, I'd choose 2.2, which is probably the longest one.

 

Ch 9 is short and evenly-paced, as are the remaining chapters in the book - she could probably do them in a week or so each, depending on how many challenge questions you assign.

 

(It's funny, having had multiple kids go through ch 2, it seems so easy looking back at it now, LOL - maybe I learned something.  That chapter is where I first saw the genius of AoPS.)

 

You know, the problem is partly me.  The PreAlgebra book in particular just makes my eyes cross.  This happens every time I open it.  I look at it, and I think, "I don't want to read all this, get to the point already!!"  Yet I love the problems.  I love the video lectures, and I love Alcumus.  I think I realized that part of the issue is . . . I already know how to do PreAlgebra, so for me, all the wordiness is just annoying.  Unless it's a concept I really didn't understand, in which case I am grateful!!  :D  But I get that the teaching is there because the book is meant to be self-teaching, it's meant to have all the information a teacher would be presenting in a classroom setting.  I'm grateful for this, too, for my student's sake, but I have found it a difficult book to try and work through on my own.  I did much better when I switched to just using Alcumus and the videos.  I find the Algebra book much less annoying, for whatever reason.

 

However, we're not talking about me here, we are talking about Shannon, and what she needs to learn!  She has loved JA, and she loves Alcumus.  We've only done a few lessons from the PreA book, selectively here and there.  It will be interesting to see how it goes when we dive back in (we will quickly review ch. 2 and then do ch. 9-14, I think).    What is interesting is that now that she has used Alcumus, she is eager to use the AoPS texts!  We'll see if that lasts once she's actually wrestling with it every day.

[wapiti]

You know, the problem is partly me.  The PreAlgebra book in particular just makes my eyes cross.  This happens every time I open it.  I look at it, and I think, "I don't want to read all this, get to the point already!!"  Yet I love the problems.  I love the video lectures, and I love Alcumus.  I think I realized that part of the issue is . . . I already know how to do PreAlgebra, so for me, all the wordiness is just annoying.  Unless it's a concept I really didn't understand, in which case I am grateful!!  :D  But I get that the teaching is there because the book is meant to be self-teaching, it's meant to have all the information a teacher would be presenting in a classroom setting.  I'm grateful for this, too, for my student's sake, but I have found it a difficult book to try and work through on my own.  I did much better when I switched to just using Alcumus and the videos.  I find the Algebra book much less annoying, for whatever reason.

 

However, we're not talking about me here, we are talking about Shannon, and what she needs to learn!  She has loved JA, and she loves Alcumus.  We've only done a few lessons from the PreA book, selectively here and there.  It will be interesting to see how it goes when we dive back in (we will quickly review ch. 2 and then do ch. 9-14, I think).    What is interesting is that now that she has used Alcumus, she is eager to use the AoPS texts!  We'll see if that lasts once she's actually wrestling with it every day.

 

I agree w/boscopup that knowing about exponents already will make it easier.  As for the reading, try not to worry about that - much of the reading may not even be necessary - the lengthy solutions are only there in case she/you need them.  Most of her learning will occur through doing the lesson problems.

 

(Thinking back to a few years ago, my dd worked through that chapter entirely on her own without previous knowledge of arithmetic with exponents.  She was determined to do it herself even though it was quite challenging for her and I think that was a great experience for her.  However, after working through the lesson problems, I doubt she read much of the solutions at all :tongue_smilie:)

 

She'll be fine :)

[Chrysalis Academy]

Well, she did Lesson 2.1 today, totally independently and painlessly.  Hmm, could it be that I'm overthinking this whole thing, and she's more ready than I thought?

 

Nah, me overthinking something?  Inconceivable!!!!   ;)  :D

[crazyforlatin]

Well, she did Lesson 2.1 today, totally independently and painlessly. Hmm, could it be that I'm overthinking this whole thing, and she's more ready than I thought?

 

Nah, me overthinking something? Inconceivable!!!! ;) :D

You just totally did the Princess Bride Inconceivable voice, didn't you?

[slackermom]

We are beginning our second semester of AOPS PreA (and our second semester of homeschooling in general), and for review I am having dd do some review problems from the end each chapter, doing a chapter a day until we get back to the place we left off.

 

So, today was chapter 2 (dun dun dun) and I was amazed to see how quickly and confidently dd worked through her problems.

 

We did take it slowly last semester, due to the warnings, which I shared with dd. It was a bit tough, but she was so happy to be really working at math again after too many years of public school. Woohoo!

[Chrysalis Academy]

You just totally did the Princess Bride Inconceivable voice, didn't you?

 

Nice call!  I even lisped!!!  :smilielol5:

[shburks]

Ok, I have a question for you guys: talk to me from the "other side"!

 

Shannon is mildly accelerated, and bright rather than wildly gifted.  In 6th grade, she accelerated through MM6 and then did Jousting Armadillos, and parts of Zaccaro's Problem Solving and Real World Algebra.  In the spring, she started working through Alcumus.  She enjoys it, she likes the challenge and the hard problems.  She has an 85% average (same as mine!) and so far has only needed help on the Inequalities section - she is solid on equations, but is still working on translating word problems into math, and so the different phrasing of inequality-type problems threw her at first.  My plan is to have her master all of the PreA content on Alcumus before starting the Intro Algebra book.

 

Now that we're back to school full-time, we are ready to tackle the two remaining topics in PreA: geometry and statistics.  I plan to use the PreA book for that.  Here's my question:  can we quickly review exponents (she did fine on the Alcumus section) and square roots, and then dive into Chapter 10, or should we work through Ch. 2 on exponents and Ch. 9 on Square Roots?  I have to confess that everyone's posts about the difficulty of Ch. 2 was a big part of why I didn't want to use PreA in the first place (the other issue being that I find it very wordy and sometimes difficult to follow.  For whatever reason the Algebra book reads much more straightforwardly to me).  I'm kind of second guessing that decision, although I still think JA was the perfect bridge for my particular student.  But this thread has me wondering if we need to go back and do more of the PreA book before starting Intro algebra?

 

Partly I'm just having Algebra jitters - how do you know for sure your kid is ready? I don't want to rush.  But I also reallly like the idea of having most of 7th grade and all of 8th to go through Intro Algebra slowly and deeply - I don't want to feel rushed on the other end, either.  It's hard to know whether to do more preparation, or whether to just dive right in and pull other resources if I find she is having a hard time once we're working on Algebra.  It seems like the Alcumus mastery is a good criterion, but what else should I be looking for?  I feel like she's ready, part of me just wants to go through Ch. 10-14 in PreA and then MOVE ON already!! It feels like we've been doing PreA forever!!!

 

Anyway, pep talks, smacks in the back of the head, or whatever else are welcome!  It's so nice to hear from people who have been through it.

So glad you asked this question.  I had talked with you before about JA and I have to admit...we're not loving it!  I think ds dislikes the wordiness in it!  Maybe it gets better, but I'm already concerned he won't be well prepared for AoPS Algebra (where I'm planning to go next) and worried I would need to do AoPS preA.  I had thought about doing the follow on books to JA but if they're like this...I don't think I can!  Too much fluff!

 

 

[Chrysalis Academy]

Well, it seems that JA has prepared Shannon very well, if her success on Alcumus is any guide, and the relative ease at which she is taking to the last chapters of AoPS PreA (the stuff not covered in JA).  She's been able to succeed on Alcumus based on her previous work with JA, Zaccaro, and MM, not based on using the PreA text.

 

But, JA was a great fit for her - she really liked the voice of the author, she liked his occaisional goofiness, she liked to figure out which work of literature he was drawing his references from.  She really enjoyed the book and would have been glad to continue with the others.  I'm opting not to mostly because of cost.  She's really enjoying Alcumus and AoPS PreA as well, and for her, the gentle intro to discovery method provided by JA has been perfect.

 

But if you guys aren't liking it, don't push it!  JA is like Jacobs, they have a similar tone and wordiness and some people don't like it.  AoPS preA is wordy, but in a totally different way - it isn't the goofy, chatty tone of a really funny middle school math teacher talking to you directly.  It's much more removed and clinical.  You can certainly do AoPS without doing JA, it's not a prerequisite - it was just a nice bridge for my particular kid.

[Roadrunner]

nm

[Alte Veste Academy]

JA is like Jacobs, they have a similar tone and wordiness and some people don't like it.

How funny! I bought JA for DD and she didn't love it, but she adores Jacob's. Maybe the way it is broken up better visually? It seems less wordy to me too. Might just be format issues for us visual folks. LOL She rejected AoPS on sight and she is my most fearless reader.

[Chrysalis Academy]

I don't blame her!  I basically rejected AoPS PreA, too, for the same reason.

[shburks]

Well, it seems that JA has prepared Shannon very well, if her success on Alcumus is any guide, and the relative ease at which she is taking to the last chapters of AoPS PreA (the stuff not covered in JA).  She's been able to succeed on Alcumus based on her previous work with JA, Zaccaro, and MM, not based on using the PreA text.

 

But, JA was a great fit for her - she really liked the voice of the author, she liked his occaisional goofiness, she liked to figure out which work of literature he was drawing his references from.  She really enjoyed the book and would have been glad to continue with the others.  I'm opting not to mostly because of cost.  She's really enjoying Alcumus and AoPS PreA as well, and for her, the gentle intro to discovery method provided by JA has been perfect.

 

But if you guys aren't liking it, don't push it!  JA is like Jacobs, they have a similar tone and wordiness and some people don't like it.  AoPS preA is wordy, but in a totally different way - it isn't the goofy, chatty tone of a really funny middle school math teacher talking to you directly.  It's much more removed and clinical.  You can certainly do AoPS without doing JA, it's not a prerequisite - it was just a nice bridge for my particular kid.

 

 

So you ARE doing AoPS Pre-A, too, in addition to AoPS Algebra?  I'm confused.  :)  Or are you saying that JA doesn't cover all the topics so you're using AoPS pre-A to cover those topics?

[Chrysalis Academy]

Sorry!  We are using AoPS PreAlgebra Ch. 9-14 to cover the Geometry & Statistics topics that JA didn't cover.  Then we will start with AoPS Intro Algebra.

 

What I meant to convey was that my dd was able to do fine with Alcumus, the online component of AoPS, without having done the PreA book - JA prepared her well for those challenging questions.  I don't feel that she needs to repeat Ch. 1-8 of the AoPS PreA book, I feel that JA did an excellent job on those topics.

 

 

Sorry if I was confusing!  I was posting in three different thread about JA & AoPS PreA yesterday, and it's hard to remember which conversations/background are in which thread!

 

ETA:  Change of plans - we decided to use Jacobs as our primary Alg 1 text.

[shburks]

Sorry!  We are using AoPS PreAlgebra Ch. 9-14 to cover the Geometry & Statistics topics that JA didn't cover.  Then we will start with AoPS Intro Algebra.  

 

What I meant to convey was that my dd was able to do fine with Alcumus, the online component of AoPS, without having done the PreA book - JA prepared her well for those challenging questions.  I don't feel that she needs to repeat Ch. 1-8 of the AoPS PreA book, I feel that JA did an excellent job on those topics.

 

 

Sorry if I was confusing!  I was posting in three different thread about JA & AoPS PreA yesterday, and it's hard to remember which conversations/background are in which thread!

 

Ha!  No need to apologize...just wondering if I need to buy the AoPS pre-A book now!  Do you think I could take him straight into AoPS Algebra or will he really be missing something without those last five chapters out of pre-A?

 

My son is currently working through Alcumus now as well.  

[Chrysalis Academy]

I don't think the AoPS PreA book is indispensible before doing AoPS Algebra, but I would just be aware that the topics covered in the last chapter - basic geometry stuff and basic statistics and probability - are typically covered during PreAlgebra, but they are not covered in JA.  So you will just want to hit them at some point.  There are other ways to do it - AoPS has a whole Counting & Probability book, and there are other geometry workbooks/books out there that cover what is typically covered during middle school.

 

Lots of people did AoPS Intro Algebra successfully w/o using AoPS PreA - Some people chose this path b/c they didn't like the PreA book, others because it wasn't out yet or they hadn't discovered it when their kid was at that level.  So it's not obligatory by any stretch!

 

For us, I figure that once she has mastered the Alcumus PreA content, she will be ready for Algebra.  I like how the AoPS book covers geometry and statistics better than anything else I have on hand, and I own it, so we're taking that route to cover the geometry and statistics topics.  That's just one path, though.

 

ETA: Using Understanding Geometry from CTC for geometry topics.  Still looking for something for statistics . . . 

[shburks]

I don't think the AoPS PreA book is indispensible before doing AoPS Algebra, but I would just be aware that the topics covered in the last chapter - basic geometry stuff and basic statistics and probability - are typically covered during PreAlgebra, but they are not covered in JA.  So you will just want to hit them at some point.  There are other ways to do it - AoPS has a whole Counting & Probability book, and there are other geometry workbooks/books out there that cover what is typically covered during middle school.

 

Lots of people did AoPS Intro Algebra successfully w/o using AoPS PreA - Some people chose this path b/c they didn't like the PreA book, others because it wasn't out yet or they hadn't discovered it when their kid was at that level.  So it's not obligatory by any stretch!

 

For us, I figure that once she has mastered the Alcumus PreA content, she will be ready for Algebra.  I like how the AoPS book covers geometry and statistics better than anything else I have on hand, and I own it, so we're taking that route to cover the geometry and statistics topics.  That's just one path, though.

 

Thanks!  I always value your thoughts/opinions.  I hate to buy the AoPS pre-A book just for the last few chapters, so maybe I'll take a look at the Counting & Probability book.  Do you have any specific recommendations in regards to geometry workbooks/books that would cover the same topics?

[Chrysalis Academy]

Yes, as a matter of fact I do! Understanding Geometry from The Critical Thinking Co.  The first 7 chapters cover what AoPS does, and more, in a more colorful/traditional way.  We may end up using it alongside AoPS, but it's stand alone for middle grades geometry IMO.

 

 

http://www.criticalthinking.com/understanding-geometry.html

 

I also just ordered this:

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1598453238/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I think Kiana recommended it. 

 

Because I *like* having waayyyyy too many choices for math!  :001_rolleyes:

[kiana]

I also just ordered this:

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1598453238/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I think Kiana recommended it. 

 

Because I *like* having waayyyyy too many choices for math!  :001_rolleyes:

 

Make sure to report back what you thought of it ;)

[shburks]

Yes, as a matter of fact I do! Understanding Geometry from The Critical Thinking Co.  The first 7 chapters cover what AoPS does, and more, in a more colorful/traditional way.  We may end up using it alongside AoPS, but it's stand alone for middle grades geometry IMO.

 

 

http://www.criticalthinking.com/understanding-geometry.html

 

I also just ordered this:

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1598453238/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I think Kiana recommended it. 

 

Because I *like* having waayyyyy too many choices for math!  :001_rolleyes:

 

Thanks.  The Amazon link goes to Data, Graphing and Statistics.  That's an appropriate book for this level?  Just want to make sure this was the book you meant!

[Chrysalis Academy]

Yes, that's the one.  It hasn't arrived yet, but it's another potential inexpensive alternative to the last two chapters of AoPS to cover middle-grade level statistics  & probability.

[EndOfOrdinary]

If you have a visual kid, I suggest the Counting and Probability.  It is really interesting and my visual spacial kid just took off with it.  It stopped his worries about the AoPS series. 

[shburks]

Yes, that's the one.  It hasn't arrived yet, but it's another potential inexpensive alternative to the last two chapters of AoPS to cover middle-grade level statistics  & probability.

 

Thanks.  You're a wealth of information...although, I have to admit, I'm even more confused than before.  I don't want to buy two extra books and am starting to really regret doing JA... Sigh.

 

If you have a visual kid, I suggest the Counting and Probability.  It is really interesting and my visual spacial kid just took off with it.  It stopped his worries about the AoPS series. 

 

Thanks.  At what point did you use these books?

[Chrysalis Academy]

Sorry for muddying the waters for you.  You have gotten a window into my scary, over-analyzing mind.  You should see the stack of math books on my floor! My own private twilight zone. I agonized over the Pre-A decision for something like two years.   :w00t:  :tongue_smilie:

 

Good luck!  :)

[EndOfOrdinary]

Thanks. At what point did you use these books?

We started PreA when DS was eight. It went very, painfully, tear inducingly slowly the first year. When he stopped fighting the emotional side of AoPS, then he took off (age 9). The second year, in a last ditch effort not to lose my mind, I brought in Intro to C&P. I told him he could do one chapter of PreA, one chapter of C&P alternating from then on, only if he would continue the PreA without melting down.

 

I honestly found C&P on Amazon for thirteen dollars and bought it. I hate stats. But he fell in love with them. Combinatorics, permutations, probability stuff, the kid went nuts. It was like I found a subject that he seemed to intuitively get so much more than the algebra.

 

In my opinion PreA is not the issue. It is coming to terms with feeling overwhelmed and defeated. It is trying to understand that math is not a series of processes, but more a living structure of how to see the world. Proof based math is new to most people. You ask someone who has never struggled much to try and break through to a different way of seeing things, you get a lot of push back. Counting and Prob was the way my son saw the world, so there was much less push back. He accepted the approach.

[texasmama]

In my opinion PreA is not the issue. It is coming to terms with feeling overwhelmed and defeated. It is trying to understand that math is not a series of processes, but more a living structure of how to see the world. Proof based math is new to most people. You ask someone who has never struggled much to try and break through to a different way of seeing things, you get a lot of push back.

So very much YES! to this.  AoPS forces this student to struggle because it does not hand a tiny piece of the puzzle at a time.  It throws the puzzle into the air and lets the student go at it.  One of my AoPS students is naturally bent this way, and one is not.  They both excel at math, though, and they each have the ability to be successful at the program.  Both of them made it through pre-A.  We are now in Intro to Algebra, and I don't know if AoPS will be a long-term good fit for my son who tends towards feeling overwhelmed and defeated.  One step at a time here.  Essentially, I have been using AoPS to teach the larger lesson of perseverance.  Even if my son needs a different curriculum at some point, he will have learned lessons outside of the mathematical ones.  After we finished pre-A, I intended to separate my sons in math, so I showed my older son two other Algebra options. He chose to stay with AoPS.  Well, okay.  Game on.  :)

[slackermom]

 

In my opinion PreA is not the issue. It is coming to terms with feeling overwhelmed and defeated. It is trying to understand that math is not a series of processes, but more a living structure of how to see the world. Proof based math is new to most people. You ask someone who has never struggled much to try and break through to a different way of seeing things, you get a lot of push back. Counting and Prob was the way my son saw the world, so there was much less push back. He accepted the approach.

 

 

Similarly, my daughter sees math as a language. AOPS is immersion teaching, overwhelming but eventually allowing you to think in that language. So far, other math programs have been like studying the vocabulary, without getting a deeper sense of what it actually means.

[Professormom]

We began our AoPS Algebra adventure today after completing AoPS pre-A. I will be very interested to see how my guys retention is from last year. We were all quite heartened to see so much review at the beginning of the Algebra book. It is welcome and will help build the confidence. :)

Hey texasmama:-) I am curious to know how the retention thing is going? Would you mind giving a quick report?;-)

[texasmama]

Hey texasmama:-) I am curious to know how the retention thing is going? Would you mind giving a quick report?;-)

Sure!  We have reached the end of Chapter 1, and one son is sailing through.  The other son is bogging down, but he tends to "lose" things inside his head due to some mild neurological differences.  I have had to assist him through sections 1.7 on.  This is the son for whom AoPS is likely not a good long-term fit, though he continues to choose it when given other choices.  I am researching different plans for next year for him, while I anticipate a strong possibility that the other son will stay in AoPS.  None of this is a surprise to me.  :)

[Chrysalis Academy]

Yes, as a matter of fact I do! Understanding Geometry from The Critical Thinking Co.  The first 7 chapters cover what AoPS does, and more, in a more colorful/traditional way.  We may end up using it alongside AoPS, but it's stand alone for middle grades geometry IMO.

 

 

http://www.criticalthinking.com/understanding-geometry.html

 

I also just ordered this:

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1598453238/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I think Kiana recommended it. 

 

Because I *like* having waayyyyy too many choices for math!  :001_rolleyes:

 

 

Make sure to report back what you thought of it ;)

 

 

Ok, so the Data Graphing & Statistics book wasn't all what I expected - it's a slim paperback, just 60 pages or so, and it's *about* statistics, it doesn't actually have any problems for the student to do.  It has nice, clear explanations and diagrams, but it won't do what I hoped it would, I'll need to find something else to actually provide problems to work.  Any ideas?  I did see that Spectrum has a workbook, but I have no experience with those and the sample doesn't help much:

 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0769663168/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2DA53TKIL7ENA&coliid=I38P1C3JTTFKPY

[shburks]

Ok, so the Data Graphing & Statistics book wasn't all what I expected - it's a slim paperback, just 60 pages or so, and it's *about* statistics, it doesn't actually have any problems for the student to do.  It has nice, clear explanations and diagrams, but it won't do what I hoped it would, I'll need to find something else to actually provide problems to work.  Any ideas?  I did see that Spectrum has a workbook, but I have no experience with those and the sample doesn't help much:

 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0769663168/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2DA53TKIL7ENA&coliid=I38P1C3JTTFKPY

 

Thanks for reporting back!

 

I actually emailed AoPS and asked them about a bridging book for the last few AoPS pre-A chapters that we won't do since we're doing JA instead.  The person I spoke with said if he had a good geometry background previously that ds should be fine. I may try going from JA to AoPS Algebra and see how it goes...

 

I can't help you with other book ideas though since I'm looking, too!

[kiana]

Ok, so the Data Graphing & Statistics book wasn't all what I expected - it's a slim paperback, just 60 pages or so, and it's *about* statistics, it doesn't actually have any problems for the student to do.  It has nice, clear explanations and diagrams, but it won't do what I hoped it would, I'll need to find something else to actually provide problems to work.  Any ideas?  I did see that Spectrum has a workbook, but I have no experience with those and the sample doesn't help much:

 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0769663168/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2DA53TKIL7ENA&coliid=I38P1C3JTTFKPY

 

Well, I'm glad you let me know :P