need HS science sequence advice

[Caralee]

We live in Canada, and have a ds who is entering grade 9 via homeschooling. We have completed the TWTM sequence of science from grade 1-8. My ds will be doing Saxon Algebra 1 this coming year. We are interested in using the Apologia (Dr. Wile) science texts. My understanding is that in order for our universities to accept a student into sciences, they need to complete both the regular and AP texts of the Bio, Chem, and Physics courses of Apologia (If someone from Canada can confirm this or expound on this, I would appreciate this.)

 

I am in need of some answers so I can better judge what to do for our science this year and to prepare him accordingly for sciences in university if he so chooses to go that route.

 

1. If a student followed the 8 year sequence of science outlined in TWTM, does this student still need to complete one or both of Apologia's Physical Science and General Science courses? Is one more necessary than the other? Is there any reason this student should do one or both of these courses? If it is good to do both, can a student do both in one year?
2.  OR can this student skip these courses and start directly into Apologia's Physical and General Science courses and go straight into the regular Biology, Chemistry, or Physics course?
3. For the regular Biology, Chemistry, and Physics courses offered by Apologia, which course should a student do first, second, third?  Can a student do two of these regular courses in one year?
4. Can a student do the regular course and the advance course of either Bio, Chem, or Physics (of Apologia's) together in one year?
5. I understand that the student needs to do certain maths before certain sciences, but I am unclear as to which. Could you please share which maths need to be with which sciences?
6. Is there any other science program that would be better suited or any other advice or suggestions?

Thank you

[snowbeltmom]

We live in Canada, and have a ds who is entering grade 9 via homeschooling. We have completed the TWTM sequence of science from grade 1-8. My ds will be doing Saxon Algebra 1 this coming year. We are interested in using the Apologia (Dr. Wile) science texts. My understanding is that in order for our universities to accept a student into sciences, they need to complete both the regular and AP texts of the Bio, Chem, and Physics courses of Apologia (If someone from Canada can confirm this or expound on this, I would appreciate this.)

 

I am in need of some answers so I can better judge what to do for our science this year and to prepare him accordingly for sciences in university if he so chooses to go that route.

 

1. If a student followed the 8 year sequence of science outlined in TWTM, does this student still need to complete one or both of Apologia's Physical Science and General Science courses? Is one more necessary than the other? Is there any reason this student should do one or both of these courses? If it is good to do both, can a student do both in one year?
2.  OR can this student skip these courses and start directly into Apologia's Physical and General Science courses and go straight into the regular Biology, Chemistry, or Physics course?
3. For the regular Biology, Chemistry, and Physics courses offered by Apologia, which course should a student do first, second, third?  Can a student do two of these regular courses in one year?
4. Can a student do the regular course and the advance course of either Bio, Chem, or Physics (of Apologia's) together in one year?
5. I understand that the student needs to do certain maths before certain sciences, but I am unclear as to which. Could you please share which maths need to be with which sciences?
6. Is there any other science program that would be better suited or any other advice or suggestions?

Thank you

High school level physics and chemistry require Algebra I at a minimum.  Some also contend that in order to understand certain sub-topics in biology, that chemistry should be studied before biology.  Those in this camp complete a sequence of physics, chemistry and then biology.  If the student has not had Alg. I, he would take a conceptual physics course to begin the sequence which would require less math knowledge.

 

I don't know anything about Apologia other than reading that some public colleges in California will not accept course work that used Apologia.  It has been a few years since I have read that, and I don't know if that is still true.

 

There are a ton of options out there for science programs.  Which science topic does your child plan to study this year?

 

 

[Caralee]

We don't have a topic for science to study this year per se. I am just wanting to follow a science sequence that will give my ds all he needs to enjoy his learning of science in the various areas and to enable him entrance to universities here. I do like having a biblically based curriculum, though I am not averse to using a secular curriculum if it is really good.

 

[snowbeltmom]

We don't have a topic for science to study this year per se. I am just wanting to follow a science sequence that will give my ds all he needs to enjoy his learning of science in the various areas and to enable him entrance to universities here. I do like having a biblically based curriculum, though I am not averse to using a secular curriculum if it is really good.

I am not familiar with how the college admissions process works in Canada.  Many of the U.S. colleges list their requirements for admission on their websites, and many also have a separate section on their websites that addresses homeschoolers specifically.  Do the Canadian colleges list their requirements?  If not, I would call some of the colleges that your son is interested in and ask them directly.

 

Good Luck.

[Mom22ns]

I can't answer any of your questions about Canada, but I think I can answer all of the Apologia questions.

 

 

1. If a student followed the 8 year sequence of science outlined in TWTM, does this student still need to complete one or both of Apologia's Physical Science and General Science courses? No. Is one more necessary than the other? Is there any reason this student should do one or both of these courses? If it is good to do both, can a student do both in one year? Skip General and Physical. You are ready to start high school with Biology.
2.  OR can this student skip these courses and start directly into Apologia's Physical and General Science courses and go straight into the regular Biology, Chemistry, or Physics course? See above :)
3. For the regular Biology, Chemistry, and Physics courses offered by Apologia, which course should a student do first, second, third?  Can a student do two of these regular courses in one year? A motivated student can do 2 in a year. We did Chemistry in 1 semester. The two Biology courses cover only the equivalent of most standard US high school Biology courses. I have not done any of his Physics to know how difficult they would be to cram in. :)
4. Can a student do the regular course and the advance course of either Bio, Chem, or Physics (of Apologia's) together in one year?
5. I understand that the student needs to do certain maths before certain sciences, but I am unclear as to which. Could you please share which maths need to be with which sciences? Chemistry requires Algebra be completed. I believe Advanced Chem requires Algebra 2 and Advanced Physics requires Pre-Calc. There is no math requirement for Biology. See math requirements from Apologia here.
6. Is there any other science program that would be better suited or any other advice or suggestions? You might look at DIVE science. You can use Apologia or other textbooks with it, but it covers more each year than each Apologia book does.

Thank you

A couple of comments. You mention Apologia's AP level texts. Apologia does not have AP level texts, nor do their advanced texts prepare students for AP exams. I don't know about Chemistry and Physics, but Biology in particular doesn't cover about half of what would be on the Biology AP exam, even if you do both Apologia books. It just isn't the same mix of topics. 

 

If you want to use Apologia and try to do 2 books/year, your math level will hold you back. I think you would have to consider a sequence such as:

9th grade: Algebra 1 - Biology (you could also do Physical Science if you want to double)

10th grade: Geometry - Chemistry, Advanced Biology

11th grade: Algebra 2 - Physics, Advanced Chemistry

12th grade: Pre-Calculus - Advanced Physics

 

[kiana]

I don't know anything about Apologia other than reading that some public colleges in California will not accept course work that used Apologia.  It has been a few years since I have read that, and I don't know if that is still true.

 

Specifically, California declined to approve courses that were taught with YEC material as satisfying the a-g requirements for entry. I believe this is still true, although they are getting worse and worse about letting homeschoolers satisfy those requirements anyway.

 

I have heard that some Canadian universities (McGill was mentioned) have declined to accept homeschoolers who used Apologia into science courses. It's in post 18 of this thread: http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/521507-secular-or-christian-bio/

 

[Caralee]

I think I can answer all of the Apologia questions.

 

If you want to use Apologia and try to do 2 books/year, your math level will hold you back. I think you would have to consider a sequence such as:

9th grade: Algebra 1 - Biology (you could also do Physical Science if you want to double)

10th grade: Geometry - Chemistry, Advanced Biology

11th grade: Algebra 2 - Physics, Advanced Chemistry

12th grade: Pre-Calculus - Advanced Physics

 

Debbie, Thank you so much for answering my questions.

 

I had my suspicion that my son would not have to do the General and Physical sciences. I am glad I asked this.

 

Yes, I was in error to mention that the Dr. Wile curriculum is AP, the second courses are only advanced. I believe your statement about the two books equalling a HS course for the US is what I have found for Canada in other posts written other Canadians, though I would have to confirm this. So if I was to use this curriculum I would have to complete both texts for each of the 3 subjects.

 

...Which leads me to think that perhaps, it is not a great use of our time and energy having to do 2 texts per subject in order to equal one full HS course...unless someone can give me some good reasons to continue in this vein. Is there another curriculum that is more suitable to use?, that would be much better?

 

I know when I went to HS (though that was a long time ago :) ), I did not have as much exposure and knowledge as my son has had and I successfully completed the HS bio, chem, and physics courses in 2 years. So how hard can it be?

 

Debbie, based on your plan above, I was thinking we would do Algebra 1 in grade 9, Algebra in grade 10, then Advanced Math in grade 11, and then whatever after that. I see you mention Geometry for grade 10. I thought Saxon covers geometry gradually throughout all the books. Is this not true? Should I add Geometry to our plans?

[kiana]

Debbie, based on your plan above, I was thinking we would do Algebra 1 in grade 9, Algebra in grade 10, then Advanced Math in grade 11, and then whatever after that. I see you mention Geometry for grade 10. I thought Saxon covers geometry gradually throughout all the books. Is this not true? Should I add Geometry to our plans?

 

You don't need to do geometry if you are using the traditional Saxon but Saxon Advanced Math is too challenging for many students to complete in one school year, so most are more like alg 1, alg 2, adv math first part, adv math second part and begin calculus.

 

ETA: Further comment on using Advanced Math in a school year -- http://usingsaxon.com/newsletterpage-2013.php#0213

[Caralee]

Kiana, thank you for your input. I really appreciate it. There is sooo much to learn as a person navigates the HS years.

[Caralee]

Now I am thinking I should find a new curriculum that teaches the needed science today and supplement with Christian material. Does anyone have any suggestions about a really good and enjoyable science curriculum and any really good Christian supplements?

[Mom22ns]

Caralee,

We use mostly secular science, but my dd likes the DIVE curriculum that I linked above. We used secular textbooks and I lined them up with his lectures. That gives you the option of a secular text/basis to satisfy colleges combined with Christian lectures. We have done this with Pearson's Physical Science Concepts in Action text and his ICP class and Miller, Levine Biology (Pearson again) along with his Biology. This coming year I believe she will do BJU Chemistry with DIVE Chemistry.

 

If you want to move away from Christian, then I suggest you look by subject. Start with the threads on Biology and Chemistry pinned at the top of the high school board to get a feel for what is out there. Then search the high school board by subject or curriculum to get more specifics about each one that you consider. 

 

Sorry about the math confusion. You are right of course that Saxon includes Geometry. I don't use Saxon, and forget they have a non-traditional sequence.

[Caralee]

I appreciate all that you have shared. I am in contact with a few homeschoolers on a local forum here where I live and they have informed me that Apologia does line up with our provincial high school curriculum. I am going to ask a few more questions to ensure this is all good, but it sounds promising once again.

 

Debbie, I cannot tell you how thankful I am that you shared the DIVE link. I looked at it and it looks really good. I am really thinking that using DIVE with Apologia could work well for us. Again, I will continue solidifying my research.

 

 

[swellmomma]

I have already answered your questions elsewhere Caralee, I just wanted to say welcome, I didn't realize you were a member here too :)

[Caralee]

I have already answered your questions elsewhere Caralee, I just wanted to say welcome, I didn't realize you were a member here too :)

 

Yes, Brandy! Thankyou for sharing all you have learned with me. I so appreciate it. I have been on this forum for a very long time. I only post here or elsewhere when I really need an answer to something. Thankyou for your welcome. It is nice to connect with neighbours here. :hurray:

[swellmomma]

Yes, Brandy! Thankyou for sharing all you have learned with me. I so appreciate it. I have been on this forum for a very long time. I only post here or elsewhere when I really need an answer to something. Thankyou for your welcome. It is nice to connect with neighbours here. :hurray:

You should post more often :) We don't bite....most of the time. :lol:

[Caralee]

You should post more often :) We don't bite....most of the time. :lol:

 

I have wanted too, but my family life is very busy, and something has got to give, so I have given up trying to keep up with forums. :001_smile: