Montessori Moms of accelerated littles-please reassure me

[Kerileanne99]

Alex is supposed to start private Montessori school 3 mornings per week. After extensive testing, neuropsych evals, major behavior problems after our 'non-academic play-based preschool' six hour per week last year I have to say I am not hopeful. Honestly, the only reason we are even attempting it is that this kid really likes being around people...even if she can't be bothered to actually interact with them:)

 

Here is the thing: next year (2015-16) will be her Kindy year. We will be homeschooling full time then, but I am hoping she can have a fun preK year. Of all the options (and we have investigated extensively our small-town options!) Montessori really seems to fit best with testing recs...in theory.

Obviously Montessori schools differ in many ways. All though the process of deciding we were woo'ed with descriptions of advanced materials commensurate with what we are doing at home. I really do understand the concepts, have read extensively about Montessori methods, and really can understand working up from basic principles. I even think Alex will be okay with this for a bit, as the hands-on materials and novelty will draw her in...but not for too long if they don't keep moving along.

 

Here is my issue: today we had parent-teacher conferences. The teacher told us she had seen Alex's testing and heard 'all about her' (not from us!) but really felt it would be in her best interest to "spend at least a year on regular 4-yr-old material" including letter sounds and counting.

Really? I have always suspected that limited resource will be time required to give lessons, but this I find very worrisome.

 

Honestly, the very last thing I interested in for this school is pushing academics. I think there are a multitude of things I would like my child to learn/absorb there and the very least of those goals are academic. We have actually been granted a concession by having her attend 3 mornings per week...usually it is a minimum of 3 full days an they like 5 full days to prepare for Kindy. We will have plenty of time to work on her other pursuits and she seems quite keen on the idea of going.

It is just that last year introduced soooo many behavior problems when she could not get the other kids to communicate, be challenged, and keep busy.

Any red flags? Am I just projecting because last year was such a fiasco? I truly want the kid to have a fun, 'kiddy' year!

 

ETA: we have a six-week grace/trial period before we are locked into a year contract. It is not inexpensive by any measure. However, much more than the money issue would be the damage that our lasts years experiment cost her! It is slowly changing, and the effects have slowly been coming to a head as she is able to tell us more. Suffice to say it should never be okay to try to shame a child into behaving like their peers and repeatedly telling them they are 'bad kids that God will punish' for thinking differently:((((

[Chris in VA]

She's buddy-reading Mrs. Frisby? Do you mean "I read a page, you read a page" type stuff?

 

Then the school wants to have her do letter sounds?

 

Why in the world would you send her there?

[Space station]

We had a similar experience with Montessori PK. Since my younger dd could already read, they didn't do any academics with her. She spent all her time on practical life stuff, ie. washing cloths by hand and grinding nutmeg, or reading silently to herself. I understand the why of it in theory, but in reality, a kid who is ahead of the peers will get ignored in Montessori. They get presented the work, can do it without practice, or are not interested in practicing it because it bores them, but as long as they cause no trouble, nothing extra gets done for them. My poor dear spent 3 years in that school before I wised up. I was blind because it had been so terrific for her older sister, who is bright, but not as asynchronous as my younger one.

[Kerileanne99]

She's buddy-reading Mrs. Frisby? Do you mean "I read a page, you read a page" type stuff?

 

Then the school wants to have her do letter sounds?

 

Why in the world would you send her there?

Buddy reading for us is she reads a chapter, then I read a chapter.

Yes. Exactly. All through the admissions and even this summer when she went for three week phase in, all I heard was how advanced all the kids were and the teachers could pull materials from elementary whenever they needed to...and today when I met her teacher she immediately expressed her opinion that ALL kids need to start with letter sounds and the moveable alphabet. I can see that, if they want to make sure she is comfortable with all Montessori materials. Many of them build on each other for many years to come...I am just sick as I feel like they plan to offer 'lessons' on new material on their schedule, not hers, and I KNoW how that will turn out.

[SierraNevada]

Take this with a grain of salt as we never considered preschool- ever.

But having a social kid, and an only, when we need to feed the social aspect-- we get together with friends to work on play and life skills, and just having fun. Unless you have to do pre-k for personal reasons, why bother? Your kid can learn much better social skills playing with carefully vetted friends. That way you control the influences they get at this young age. So many friends end up having their kids learn biting or hitting, or foul language when they send them to these places. Or behavior just disintegrates. If she doesn't need the academics, and it sounds like there is no way they will be able to even closely meet her needs, then enjoy the time with you and her playing with a couple of best friends-- maybe even kids that are closer to her level. That's just what I'd do.. And what I did... Because there is no way that any preschool is really ready for PG kids, or even would get it. There are so many more ways to find social time than just at a pre-school. My two cents.

[lewelma]

She's buddy-reading Mrs. Frisby? Do you mean "I read a page, you read a page" type stuff?

 

Then the school wants to have her do letter sounds?

 

 

:huh: and some :confused1:

 

That's nuts.  Just no.

[Kerileanne99]

Yep, these are exactly the same doubts I have. I am sick with going back and forth. After her neuropsychiatric testing at the end of last year and the resulting issues we had I swore never to try again. But Neuropsych also noted her need to be around other kids.

This kid IS very social, or at least wants to be:(. We have tried to meet the need (as well as her need of physical output) by sending her to gymnastics 2 Xper week, swimming 2 X, music and Soroban lessons. It is not doing the trick.

 

In this area, just about everyone sends their kids to prestigious preschools, followed by pre-K, the. On to Kindy. There are two homeschool coops who rigorously enforce the start at kindy age regardless philosophy. No exceptions. And honestly, I have a problem with the exclusivity and statements of faith...even if I could sign them I would not as I feel they are morally repugnant by their very nature.

Alexandria is an only child, with a mom in a wheelchair who cannot always keep up physically with such a physically exuberant child:) And, whilst not always the case, I think that my being in a wheelchair severely limits the willingness of other parents to extend invitations for play dates. Maybe I am mistaken and it is just my winning personality *grin*. And when they actually listen to my kid it becomes painfully obvious how 'different' she is...and the awkwardness increases:(.

 

I hate this. There does not seem to exist ANY option. At FOUR ( and I have a sick feeling it isn't going to get better for a long while!) I am having such a hard time finding any place that will even give her a chance. Today we were lucky enough to get to attend a Dino/archaeologist talk by 'Dinosaur George.' Dd had her notebook and was taking 'her notes...In crayon:) We were in the front row of an auditorium and he asked her what she was drawing. She loudly asked if all of his dinosaur talks included anthropomorphism. The place got totally silent...and he asked her where such a little girl heard such a big word:(

She cried in the car.

[quark]

It starts getting lonely and difficult really young with these kids sometimes. :grouphug:

 

I know your being in a wheelchair probably complicates things. We did a collection of classes and such at a neighboring community center (neutral stuff like art and gooey science and dance) and also found a multi age co-op for a short time to help with the social needs. It meant a lot of driving and some of it was back breaking for me but the co-op especially was so helpful. They did a multi-age Shakespeare production that really whetted kiddo's appetite for such things. The play took months to put together and it was such an awesome experience while it lasted. But the co-op also expected volunteer work from each parent.

 

I'm not sure how much of the driving and co-op research/ volunteering you are able to do but just wanted to throw the idea out there.

 

Can you invite people over regularly instead? Can you start a local gifted group? Almost everything we did ourselves (not counting the comm classes and co-op) started really small at first (at most just one other family) and then slowly grew over the years.

 

And oh ignore those patronizing presenters. We've encountered our fair share but we've also encountered some really understanding, genuinely interested and helpful folk...hopefully it will balance out for you too.

 

ETA: everyone I knew then sent their kids to prestigious preschools too. Even now, even our homeschooling friends outsource to prestigious vendors etc. We're simply the odd ones out because we refuse to spend the money unless it is absolutely relevant for kiddo (e.g. the math tutor). You'll find it when you need it. Just hang on tight.

 

 

[Arcadia]

She loudly asked if all of his dinosaur talks included anthropomorphism. The place got totally silent...and he asked her where such a little girl heard such a big word:(

She cried in the car.

I'm so sorry for both of you. People have always been kind to my boys' questions in their area of passions.

 

The YMCA is where my boys get most of their social needs met. The activities there tend to be hands on teamwork or interaction based so my boys have a great time there. Its also easier for us as the YMCA has a nice lounge for us to wait for hubby to give us a ride home since I can't drive. My kids had chat often with other kids at the lounge.

[The Governess]

Edited because I didn't read closely...

 

The play-based approach worked for mine, but I see that you've already tried that route. It sounds like this new preschool isn't a great fit either. I'm sorry you're having a hard time finding a good fit.

[Grover]

montessori was an unmitigated disaster for DS for this very reason.  Given the time again I would not go that route again.  

[MyHandsAreFull]

In retrospect, Montessori was a disaster for us. Simply not goal-directed and too much time spent on glorified housework. Four years later, I'm still kicking myself about it. I would suggest you go with your gut and avoid this placement. Best wishes on some of the other options suggested above. Maybe look into Davidson at age 5 and up? They likely could help put you in touch with other families, at least in the same region.

[kiwik]

Edited because I didn't read closely...

 

The play-based approach worked for mine, but I see that you've already tried that route. It sounds like this new preschool isn't a great fit either. I'm sorry you're having a hard time finding a good fit.

But it sounded like an unusual play based approach. No one to my knowledge in any of the places my kids attended them told them God would punish them if they didn't conform. Obviously it varies but i am not keen on any of the systems that believe their way is right for everyone.

[wapiti]

I would first talk with the principal in the hope that there might be a different primary teacher that might be a much better fit. It is obvious that this one either misunderstands the state of your dd's reading or doesn't hold closely to Montessori principles (follow the child, which includes considering the child's actual needs). If the principal is any good, he or she will be open to that, and of course the principal knows that the alternative is that you pull your child. Don't be afraid to ask them specifically for what you want - if they won't provide it, you have your answer.

Edited January 12, 2016 by wapiti

[Dmmetler]

Can you find multi-age groups, maybe ones that are really targeted at older kids, but have siblings in Alex's age range? Facebook is a good place to find local loosely organized homeschool meet-ups (it was yahoo groups a few years back, but seems to have jumped to FB now in my area)

 

When DD was 3, I started going to homeschool park days under the guise of "considering homeschooling" , and that was a better fit. Didn't stop them from putting her with the kimdergartners when she was finally old enough for co-op, but at least we'd connected with people for more casual stuff. When I started my academic clubs/groups (NME prep, ELE, and this year, CML), one reason why I did was for the DD-type kids who were perfectly capable of participating in the early years, but wouldn't be welcome in other groups, and that's worked well. The 5 yr olds who can't keep up with the 8-10 yr olds end up playing on the swing set or in the Lego room, those who can, do. So, this year, the age range is from 5-14 for mythology and from 4-16 for math. Everyone has a chance to share and present at their own level, and sometimes, that means the 4 yr old who is really excited outshines the 11 yr old. It's good. You may have to start something at first, especially giving accessibility concerns, but if you set up something based on Alex's interests, there will probably be other interested kids. We also usually do a one-shot once a month or so, just a chance to get together and do a science project, craft, bake cookies, something. DD loves organizing and planning these.

 

It's hard. But ITA with the people above-we put DD in K at age 4, with a promise of further enrichment and acceleration. She had a good teacher who tried hard, and it wasn't enough. It didn't really provide the social needs, either, because there was too much time spent on academics during the day, and she just wasn't really at the same level as the other kids. She became good friends with the librarian, but that was about it. It was a wasted year, at best, and it took a couple of years for her to fully get her enthusiasm back.

[snowbeltmom]

I would first talk with the principal in the hope that there might be a different primary teacher that might be a much better fit. It is obvious that this one either misunderstands the state of your dd's reading or doesn't hold closely to Montessori principles (follow the child, which includes considering the child's actual needs). If the principal is any good, he or she will be open to that, and of course the principal knows that the alternative is that you pull your child. We have had pretty good luck with Montessori (five kids currently attending) but on occasion we have had a few disappointing teachers, just as with any school. Don't be afraid to ask them specifically for what you want - if they won't provide it, you have your answer.

 

:iagree: Montessori worked really well for us, especially at the Children's House level.  However, the teacher did not have the same philosophy as the teacher in the OP's post.  Lessons were brought down from the Lower Elementary without any "prodding" from me.

 

[Kathy G]

We had a very different montessori experience.  DS teacher brought materials from older rooms when she felt he was needing more.  They did not have any timeline for learning anything- they simply let him go to the next concept or activity.  It is likely very teacher dependent.  I didn't even understand Montessori when we started- we were desperate for a day care for a few months.  We ended up staying there for years simply because they gave him appropriate challenge.  My understanding of Montessori is that the child leads the learning.  At least that is how it worked at our school.  Maybe you could talk to the director to understand their approach and how it fits into a child led learning experience

[bakpak]

Hmmm, I understand the teacher wanting your DD to be comfortable with the moveable alphabet if your DD is still working on writing/composing, but starting with letter sounds is ridiculous. I would bring in your DD's work and show them where she is. I don't think you keeping her level to yourself is a good idea. I would be very clear. Write it out if need be. I would also meet with the teacher & director of the program again. I suspect the teacher will figure out pretty quickly that she needs to step up her normal game. They should always meet the child where they are.

 

I'm not saying Montessori is perfect for all kids, but my DD definitely gets a lot out of her program. When she was 2 and 3 she spent more time doing practical life/sensorial stuff, but by 2.5 she was ready for academics. As a 4-yr-old last year the only practical life stuff she did was learn to sew (fun!) and help prepare snack & clean up. Otherwise, there was no compulsion by the teacher for her to do anything she didn't want to. She spent 60% of her free time on math, 15% reading books at her level, and the rest on a variety of stuff.

 

I'm not saying my DD wouldn't have learned more at home, it's quite likely, but she has made great strides socially and has a community of friends now which we both enjoy, as I've made new friends too.

 

Again, I'd talk to the director/teacher and give it a try. As you said, you can get out of it.

 

Good luck, and keep us updated!

[Tanikit]

The need seems to be to be around other children - 4 years old is often a hard age to achieve this (I know when my eldest was 4 I found it hard to find places that took children before kindergarten), but it should still be possible without having to send her to school. My 3.5 year old sees other children at homeschool groups and also at her gymnastics class. I have however had to look specifically for a group of homeschoolers where there are younger children (despite her getting on just fine with older children, I want her to be in a mix of ages so that she learns to associate with all ages and also so I can watch and see which children she chooses). 

 

Really I would find a place or class or a group where she can just play and forget Montessori school or any other school for that matter.

[mathnerd]

You can make it work well because it is only 3 mornings a week. You can after school to keep up with her learning needs.

[Ad astra]

That's why I didn't send my DS to the Montessori in my area. I did a multiple tours and chose a more free play-based almost-non-academic private preschool. Whatever the school was going to teach him, I wanted it to be the least amount of time spent (His pre-K class is still working on letter recognition and counting numbers in a very light way.) because it was not possibly even close to the level I was teaching him at home anyway. My DS is a social butterfly and needs this social time. I wanted him to have fun in a group setting so I carefully chose the school with friendly teachers and lots of hands-on activities. He has been learning a lot more than academics at school such as manners, group rules and life skills. He paints, plays games and runs in the sprinkler. He even loves having lunch with friends.

So, I'd like to suggest you give it a try. She may end up having a lot of fun there. Three mornings a week are not a long time (Mine spends two mornings.), and you will still have a plenty of time to give her an individual attention on academics at her level.

With that said, however, don't get your hopes up too much on the quality of education/child care even if it's the most expensive school in the town. We're also locked up in a year contract and so far it's been a very expensive investment for what we got. What preschools do here is basically babysitting IMO. If my DS was any less social or did I not have a terrible-two at home, I'd probably have saved that money and taken him out to various places or activities myself.

[SeaConquest]

Our solution for my extremely extroverted child was to send him to foreign language immersion preschool. He would have been bored out of his mind in English, but put things in another language and life became more challenging for him. Is that an option?  

[Kerileanne99]

I would first talk with the principal in the hope that there might be a different primary teacher that might be a much better fit. It is obvious that this one either misunderstands the state of your dd's reading or doesn't hold closely to Montessori principles (follow the child, which includes considering the child's actual needs). If the principal is any good, he or she will be open to that, and of course the principal knows that the alternative is that you pull your child. We have had pretty good luck with Montessori (five kids currently attending) but on occasion we have had a few disappointing teachers, just as with any school. Don't be afraid to ask them specifically for what you want - if they won't provide it, you have your answer.

Sorry for the delay in getting back to this post. We had a bit of a medical issue these last few days.

 

I did do this. We aren't really familiar with any of the teachers there, and the principal has seen Alex's test scores as well as samples of her work. She promised to match our dd with a teacher with experience in dealing with advanced kids. She seems to think that this placement, with this particular teacher, will be great.

[Kerileanne99]

Can you find multi-age groups, maybe ones that are really targeted at older kids, but have siblings in Alex's age range? Facebook is a good place to find local loosely organized homeschool meet-ups (it was yahoo groups a few years back, but seems to have jumped to FB now in my area)

 

When DD was 3, I started going to homeschool park days under the guise of "considering homeschooling" , and that was a better fit. Didn't stop them from putting her with the kimdergartners when she was finally old enough for co-op, but at least we'd connected with people for more casual stuff. When I started my academic clubs/groups (NME prep, ELE, and this year, CML), one reason why I did was for the DD-type kids who were perfectly capable of participating in the early years, but wouldn't be welcome in other groups, and that's worked well. The 5 yr olds who can't keep up with the 8-10 yr olds end up playing on the swing set or in the Lego room, those who can, do. So, this year, the age range is from 5-14 for mythology and from 4-16 for math. Everyone has a chance to share and present at their own level, and sometimes, that means the 4 yr old who is really excited outshines the 11 yr old. It's good. You may have to start something at first, especially giving accessibility concerns, but if you set up something based on Alex's interests, there will probably be other interested kids. We also usually do a one-shot once a month or so, just a chance to get together and do a science project, craft, bake cookies, something. DD loves organizing and planning these.

 

It's hard. But ITA with the people above-we put DD in K at age 4, with a promise of further enrichment and acceleration. She had a good teacher who tried hard, and it wasn't enough. It didn't really provide the social needs, either, because there was too much time spent on academics during the day, and she just wasn't really at the same level as the other kids. She became good friends with the librarian, but that was about it. It was a wasted year, at best, and it took a couple of years for her to fully get her enthusiasm back.

I think I will eventually have to put together some groups for Alex. I think right now she is just at that perfect in-between age. It seems like every.single.group or class we have found goes VERY strictly off of the school district cutoff of Dec 1st. And even if there WAS any flexibility with the minimum age (I have found exactly 1 that would consider it!) I have been told that the point is moot anyway as kids that are officially kindy get priority, for obvious reasons. There are wait lists!

 

I have dreams of putting together a couple of groups, but am not ready medically to take anything else on. My kid is so high energy that she gets anything/everything I have:). I am having yet another hip surgery this year, so maybe after that.

[wapiti]

Sorry for the delay in getting back to this post. We had a bit of a medical issue these last few days.

 

I did do this. We aren't really familiar with any of the teachers there, and the principal has seen Alex's test scores as well as samples of her work. She promised to match our dd with a teacher with experience in dealing with advanced kids. She seems to think that this placement, with this particular teacher, will be great.

 

FWIW, if you haven't already done so, I would get very specific with the teacher about your dd's current level of achievement and ask for appropriate work.  Then, take the teacher's statements (if they are the same as you've already described) to the principal and explain how un-Montessori the teacher's approach is.  I would definitely have another discussion with the principal after having had the experience with the teacher to demonstrate that the teacher is a bad fit (or otherwise giving the teacher more info so that the teacher can come around, though my intuition would doubt that part).

 

I definitely feel that a conversation with the principal is wise before pulling your child.  Maybe the principal doesn't "get it" either, but I'd at least give it a shot. 

[Kerileanne99]

We had a very different montessori experience. DS teacher brought materials from older rooms when she felt he was needing more. They did not have any timeline for learning anything- they simply let him go to the next concept or activity. It is likely very teacher dependent. I didn't even understand Montessori when we started- we were desperate for a day care for a few months. We ended up staying there for years simply because they gave him appropriate challenge. My understanding of Montessori is that the child leads the learning. At least that is how it worked at our school. Maybe you could talk to the director to understand their approach and how it fits into a child led learning experience

This is exactly how her school has been described in the 2 years we have been contemplating it. We toured several times, met on several occasions to see if it would even be an option. Now that she is actually enrolled I just feel like her actual teacher is maybe even a bit biased, if that makes sense?

[wapiti]

FWIW, intuitively I sense that some teachers get it and some just don't or come from a perspective that involves a lot of incorrect assumptions.  The "bad fit" teachers have typically either been ex-PS teachers, still inside the PS-grade-level-box, or teachers stuck inside the Montessori box, interpreting "follow the child" too literally with no consideration for individual needs, which can include issues with perfectionism/fear of trying challenging things. 

[Kerileanne99]

Hmmm, I understand the teacher wanting your DD to be comfortable with the moveable alphabet if your DD is still working on writing/composing, but starting with letter sounds is ridiculous. I would bring in your DD's work and show them where she is. I don't think you keeping her level to yourself is a good idea. I would be very clear. Write it out if need be. I would also meet with the teacher & director of the program again. I suspect the teacher will figure out pretty quickly that she needs to step up her normal game. They should always meet the child where they are.

 

I'm not saying Montessori is perfect for all kids, but my DD definitely gets a lot out of her program. When she was 2 and 3 she spent more time doing practical life/sensorial stuff, but by 2.5 she was ready for academics. As a 4-yr-old last year the only practical life stuff she did was learn to sew (fun!) and help prepare snack & clean up. Otherwise, there was no compulsion by the teacher for her to do anything she didn't want to. She spent 60% of her free time on math, 15% reading books at her level, and the rest on a variety of stuff.

 

I'm not saying my DD wouldn't have learned more at home, it's quite likely, but she has made great strides socially and has a community of friends now which we both enjoy, as I've made new friends too.

 

Again, I'd talk to the director/teacher and give it a try. As you said, you can get out of it.

 

Good luck, and keep us updated!

You know, I actually submitted random samples of Alex's work this summer. I haven't actually seen the work of other kids at the school so I don't really know what they thought of her handwriting. Personally, I see it as fine. She loves to write stories and picked up cursive very, very quickly as well. This is the sample I stuck in the folder at the beginning of summer as she had done it a couple of days prior.

I don't, however, actually know that the copies of her work were actually shown to this teacher. Maybe I should check that!

 

ETA: have to attach the picture from the computer:(

[Jackie]

Her handwriting is excellent.

 

So, for a couple questions... How is Alex going to feel if she is working on things below her level? Some kids are unbelievably frustrated at that, others just go with the flow. What is your primary goal of this setting - educational, social, or other? How closely do they need to match her educational level in order for it to be a good fit for her? How much damage do you believe will be done in six weeks if you test it out before making a decision?

 

An awesome part-time play-based preschool is working well for us, but primarily because we only intended it for social interaction and child care while I work. I probably would have been equally satisfied with our local Montessori schools with those goals in mind but their schedules didn't match ours. Having visited the Montessori schools here, I would have been very unsatisfied with them if my primary goal was education. They were far too married to age-based expectations and a "most of our students are advanced so don't go believing your child is a special snowflake" attitude.

[ebrindam]

What did you decide to do?

[EKS]

Montessori is frequently recommended for gifted kids because in theory the child can go at her own pace.  However, if the teacher/director of the Montessori preschool is a very traditional Montessorian (is that even a word?), the school will force the child to start with the materials at the beginning and move through them sequentially, and if the child gives no indication of wanting to move on, the school won't do anything to encourage it.  Thus, you have a kid like my son, who started reading at age 2 and was reading fluently on a 1st grade level at age 3, "doing the scratchy letters" for an entire *year*.  When he finally moved on to the next thing, he was well beyond that too.  Looking back on it, I am absolutely sure that my son was bored out of his mind at that school.

 

Montessori can also be a problem for 2E kids who need direct instruction to learn.

[ThoughtfulMama]

We sent my very academic DS to an arts, music, and drama pre-K, and it was a great choice for us. Like you, I really could care less that they "worked" with him, and luckily, he is still fresh and excited about learning even if it's doing letter-of-the-week, but the school really was focused on things that are his "weaknesses", and it was great. Our family pretty much has artistic talent limited to stick figures, and they taught him about drawing painting, using a pottery wheel, playing instruments, singing, and dancing.

[EndOfOrdinary]

I think in order for it to work, you might need to change your mindset about school.  School for my son is a way to almost look at society anthropologically.  It is a way for him to learn how the rest of society works, how "normal" looks, and how to blend.  Since he is extroverted, these are really important things.  He needs to watch how other kids interact and mimic the behaviors.  He needs to learn the boundaries of where he gets to be an individual and where he needs to meet the needs of the crowd.  School is not a place for him to learn the 3 "r's" or to stretch himself academically.  He is PG and it is just not going to happen. That is okay.  That is only one facet of who he is as person.  That is only one part of how he is going to be a fulfilled person. 

 

As an introvert, this sort of dynamic was not something I really embraced.  I wanted to be left alone, let me work, leave me to my esoteric studies, let me be the weird kid because then I can just do my thing. As an adult it is coming to bite me in the butt a little, but it was fine as a kid/teen.

 

For a long time, I did not openly embrace the fact that my son was going to need to matriculate.  I did not want to talk to him about concepts like "dumbing down" or hiding himself.  That seemed so negative.  It was negative.  When I stopped looking at it in those terms and started looking at in terms of meeting his social needs, things changed.  He isn't not dumbing himself down, he is being humble.  He is not hiding himself, he is thinking about the other people's feelings and needs.  At home, he can still pursue all that he wants in his extended studies.  At the library, he can still check out any books he wants to regardless of the area they are located in.  He can go and play MineCraft (non obsessively) and then check out the Epic of Gilgamesh translated on one side and in curiform on the other.  None of the other kids really care, as long as in his interactions with them he plays by certain rules.  Those rules are important.  When he found his groove with those rules, it allowed him to then start blurring their lines with his books, large words, and sometimes weird bits of knowledge.  The other kids are honestly his friends.  They laugh with him, joke with him, share all sorts of things will him till he is just bursting over with joyful normalcy. They really do not care what he does academically, but do not want to be made to feel small, awkward, or weird.  Our society demands a form of conformance if you want to interact with it.  You daughter does.

 

The teacher you have seems to be putting a very negative and shaming spin on the issue, and that is not okay.  However, it might be that you need to talk to your daughter about what gifted means (again, not negatively toward either side) so that she can realize ways that she is unique. 

[songsparrow]

Montessori is frequently recommended for gifted kids because in theory the child can go at her own pace.  However, if the teacher/director of the Montessori preschool is a very traditional Montessorian (is that even a word?), the school will force the child to start with the materials at the beginning and move through them sequentially, and if the child gives no indication of wanting to move on, the school won't do anything to encourage it.  Thus, you have a kid like my son, who started reading at age 2 and was reading fluently on a 1st grade level at age 3, "doing the scratchy letters" for an entire *year*.  When he finally moved on to the next thing, he was well beyond that too.  Looking back on it, I am absolutely sure that my son was bored out of his mind at that school.

 

Montessori can also be a problem for 2E kids who need direct instruction to learn.

 

Yes, the Montessori teaching method in theory should be ideal for gifted children.  But in reality, the Montessori teachers do not receive any specialized instruction in working with gifted children.  They can be quite rigid in not allowing a child to move ahead of the age-level materials.  Also, if they are only a preschool, they often will not have upper level materials available, nor teachers trained on how to use the existing materials (e.g., the number rods) to explore upper level concepts.

[Kerileanne99]

What did you decide to do?

We decided to give it a trial period. We have been given a six-week grace period. This was her first week, and I have been so-far very underwhelmed. I am REALLY hoping that we can make a good go of it. I am pregnant again, and will likely be on bed rest for the vast majority, if we are able to hold on to this one. This is honestly my most convincing argument for sending her at this point:(

 

As I stated above, I am highly doubtful that this school (or any school at this particular age) would be able to meet her where she is academically. I am fine with that, as long as they can meet other needs. Working in groups, striving for patience, getting to play with other kids. Social courtesies. But this child NEEDS to have at least some challenges or we see huge changes in negative behaviors.

 

I did show the teachers a portfolio of dd's work and test results, but I didn't get the impression that it was going to change much. This week she came home all three separate days with a sheet of paper with the numbers 1-9, with the corresponding number of circles next to them. The work was to simply color in the circles. The teacher mentioned that my dd only wants to draw and cut, and that their job is to follow the child. But I don't see it as a true choice when she isn't allowed to do the works she wants, and is bored after the first time she was asked to put corresponding beads into little boxes labeled 1-9. The teacher did ask if it was okay to send books home with her to read, like they do the Kindy kids in the class, and of course that is fine. But as they sent home a beginning reader with 5 words per page, it seems more a novelty to Alex that anything. It will be fun for her I guess, but...

 

So. We are in a holding pattern to see. I have my suspicions, but I am really just hoping that things will pick up. So far dd likes going, so that is definitely something. She is a bit frustrated, but as there are still lots of hands-on we may get away with it this year. Definitely not for Kindy next year.

[Kerileanne99]

I think in order for it to work, you might need to change your mindset about school. School for my son is a way to almost look at society anthropologically. It is a way for him to learn how the rest of society works, how "normal" looks, and how to blend. Since he is extroverted, these are really important things. He needs to watch how other kids interact and mimic the behaviors. He needs to learn the boundaries of where he gets to be an individual and where he needs to meet the needs of the crowd. School is not a place for him to learn the 3 "r's" or to stretch himself academically. He is PG and it is just not going to happen. That is okay. That is only one facet of who he is as person. That is only one part of how he is going to be a fulfilled person.

 

As an introvert, this sort of dynamic was not something I really embraced. I wanted to be left alone, let me work, leave me to my esoteric studies, let me be the weird kid because then I can just do my thing. As an adult it is coming to bite me in the butt a little, but it was fine as a kid/teen.

 

For a long time, I did not openly embrace the fact that my son was going to need to matriculate. I did not want to talk to him about concepts like "dumbing down" or hiding himself. That seemed so negative. It was negative. When I stopped looking at it in those terms and started looking at in terms of meeting his social needs, things changed. He isn't not dumbing himself down, he is being humble. He is not hiding himself, he is thinking about the other people's feelings and needs. At home, he can still pursue all that he wants in his extended studies. At the library, he can still check out any books he wants to regardless of the area they are located in. He can go and play MineCraft (non obsessively) and then check out the Epic of Gilgamesh translated on one side and in curiform on the other. None of the other kids really care, as long as in his interactions with them he plays by certain rules. Those rules are important. When he found his groove with those rules, it allowed him to then start blurring their lines with his books, large words, and sometimes weird bits of knowledge. The other kids are honestly his friends. They laugh with him, joke with him, share all sorts of things will him till he is just bursting over with joyful normalcy. They really do not care what he does academically, but do not want to be made to feel small, awkward, or weird. Our society demands a form of conformance if you want to interact with it. You daughter does.

 

The teacher you have seems to be putting a very negative and shaming spin on the issue, and that is not okay. However, it might be that you need to talk to your daughter about what gifted means (again, not negatively toward either side) so that she can realize ways that she is unique.

I agree with this. And our rationalization for sending her to preschool was exactly the same. In fact, last year we tried with a completely non-academic place to try to 'level the playing field' temporarily. It was an unmitigated disaster.

So this year we are trying with the Montessori, mixed-age group. Ostensibly at a 'work at the pace of the child' idea, although I cannot see that happening. I don't expect her to be actually taught there...I just want to not to be absolutely bored as it causes SO many behavior problems, anger problems, etc.

 

And whilst I agree with talking about much of the issues involving giftedness and society with kids, she IS still four. We are still working on the basics here, lol. You know how it goes with these kids, long division one one hand and temper tantrums because they can't get their pants because they got turned inside out!

[Kerileanne99]

Yes, the Montessori teaching method in theory should be ideal for gifted children. But in reality, the Montessori teachers do not receive any specialized instruction in working with gifted children. They can be quite rigid in not allowing a child to move ahead of the age-level materials. Also, if they are only a preschool, they often will not have upper level materials available, nor teachers trained on how to use the existing materials (e.g., the number rods) to explore upper level concepts.

This is exactly what I am seeing:(

[Kerileanne99]

We sent my very academic DS to an arts, music, and drama pre-K, and it was a great choice for us. Like you, I really could care less that they "worked" with him, and luckily, he is still fresh and excited about learning even if it's doing letter-of-the-week, but the school really was focused on things that are his "weaknesses", and it was great. Our family pretty much has artistic talent limited to stick figures, and they taught him about drawing painting, using a pottery wheel, playing instruments, singing, and dancing.

Wow, if there was anything remotely like that here for my dd, I would have signed her up in a heartbeat. That sounds wonderful.

I would also give a lot to have a single language-immersion school here, as I think that would have been a great option.

Alas, we seem to be in a place where preschools use a cookie-cutter to get started.

[songsparrow]

It is just that last year introduced soooo many behavior problems when she could not get the other kids to communicate, be challenged, and keep busy.

 

Regardless of what you decide to do about the pre-K, I would look to see if there are any gifted programs in your area or Yahoo groups or similar for parents of gifted kids, to find opportunities for her to get her together with other kids on her cognitive level.

 

And re the pre-K, this may be subversive, but the kids are allowed to use the materials in nonconventional ways and the teachers are supposed to allow it (child led and all). You could consider working with her at home using Montessori-style materials to do the upper level work - e.g., show her how to use the number rods for the 4 operations - and she'd be able to use the materials at the pre-K in the same way. Also, would they let her bring books from home?

 

Suffice to say it should never be okay to try to shame a child into behaving like their peers and repeatedly telling them they are 'bad kids that God will punish' for thinking differently:((((

I had missed this the first time I read your post. OMG - how incredibly ignorant and evil! I'm on my phone so no smilies but lots of hugs to you and Alex!

[wapiti]

I did show the teachers a portfolio of dd's work and test results, but I didn't get the impression that it was going to change much. This week she came home all three separate days with a sheet of paper with the numbers 1-9, with the corresponding number of circles next to them. The work was to simply color in the circles. The teacher mentioned that my dd only wants to draw and cut, and that their job is to follow the child. But I don't see it as a true choice when she isn't allowed to do the works she wants, and is bored after the first time she was asked to put corresponding beads into little boxes labeled 1-9. The teacher did ask if it was okay to send books home with her to read, like they do the Kindy kids in the class, and of course that is fine. But as they sent home a beginning reader with 5 words per page, it seems more a novelty to Alex that anything. It will be fun for her I guess, but...

 

What a huge disappointment!

 

While certainly there's a place for following the child in wanting to cut, etc., there is no excuse for not presenting higher-level math works and books at an appropriate reading level.  It might not be simple for them to figure out exactly which math work would be next, but they could at least ballpark it.  They should have said that it may take time (a week or two?) for them to get the presentations going on the higher level works, as the beginning of the school year is always a busy time figuring out where each child is performing.

 

IME, "follow the child" is interpreted so differently by different teachers even within the same school.

 

Considering the importance of having her at preschool due to your pregnancy situation, I'd probably be willing to give them a few more weeks, but I'd let them know specifically that they are *still* off the mark, that I wanted to see that there were presentations of appropriate level work, even if she is choosing to spend the rest of her time doing other things (certainly there is value in the cutting, etc., but there is no value in the number work she was doing and I'd wonder if she even chose it??).  I'd also talk with the principal again about switching teachers, if there is another who may be better suited.  They should be able to handle this - it sounds like they just don't know how.  In your discussions, you might take a "team approach" in helping them figure it out.

[Jackie]

Have you explained to Alex how Montessori works? Specifically, that if she is bored or wants something new to explore while she is there, she needs to be respectfully vocal about it? I had to do that with my daughter even with her school time at home. She would just do (or just ignore) the work that I was presenting even if I was way off on the level that she was working at. Eventually, she would get bored and/or frustrated and we would have meltdowns. After repeating this cycle a few times, I finally caught on and I taught her several ways in which she could recognize and tell me when she was bored, frustrated, simply not interested, etc. It helped me figure out her level much more quickly when she learned these basic self-advocacy skills.

 

If Alex is happy drawing and cutting, then that's great. If she is doing those things because there's nothing else at the right level, then teaching her how to advocate for herself by going to the teacher and saying that she wants to learn new ways to use the tools in the classroom may get more of a response.

[bakpak]

Your DD wanting to spend a lot of time cutting and pasting and possibly even coloring in the 1-9 bead stamps may not be too indicative of where she will go with the program in a few weeks. I suspect they would want her to learn the bead colors for more advanced work, and coloring is a fine way to do that.

 

I agree with Wapiti. I'd give it a couple of weeks, then have the discussion with them again about challenging work. What is their _plan_? What sequence of works are they planning to introduce her to? A lot of times in Montessori they want the first weeks/month to be a very gentle/getting comfortable in the classroom phase, especially for new students. A lot can ramp up after that period, but you should start seeing it well before the 6-week trial is over.  I would remind them about potential behavior issues if she's not challenged. As long as she has the OPTION of doing work at/near her level, that should be the goal.

 

Also, I agree with Jackie about teaching Alex to be her own advocate. This can take awhile and 4 is a good time to work on this skill. I saw my own DD start doing this more when she was 4. I heard her telling the teacher more and more often, "No thank you, I don't want to do that work. I already know how to do it. I would rather do ...."  Children can hear the teacher say "You're not allowed to do any works that you've not been shown the proper way to use them.", which is often a Montessori theme, but I don't think they also tell them to ask if they'd like to try something new. It's often left up to the teacher to notice the child's disinterest or unwillingness to do a work and interpret that action correctly. This takes time to develop as the teacher/child relationship matures.

 

Hope it gets better soon. Off-hand it doesn't sound like the most promising start for Alex, but my DD has been in her classroom only a couple of days as well and I've been underwhelmed so far. I'm going to give it time though and see how things develop.  I hope we're both pleasantly surprised!

 

 

 

[Kerileanne99]

Have you explained to Alex how Montessori works? Specifically, that if she is bored or wants something new to explore while she is there, she needs to be respectfully vocal about it? I had to do that with my daughter even with her school time at home. She would just do (or just ignore) the work that I was presenting even if I was way off on the level that she was working at. Eventually, she would get bored and/or frustrated and we would have meltdowns. After repeating this cycle a few times, I finally caught on and I taught her several ways in which she could recognize and tell me when she was bored, frustrated, simply not interested, etc. It helped me figure out her level much more quickly when she learned these basic self-advocacy skills.

 

If Alex is happy drawing and cutting, then that's great. If she is doing those things because there's nothing else at the right level, then teaching her how to advocate for herself by going to the teacher and saying that she wants to learn new ways to use the tools in the classroom may get more of a response.

Absolutely. She actually HAS a huge assortment of Montessori works at home that she has used since she was tiny. My mom is montessori-trained. We have had lots of talks as well, and she told me she did ask for lessons several times last week but was told the teacher was busy. I get that, it WAS the first week:) we shall see if that changes.

And she does like to draw...I don't mind at all, except that I see it as a default. She has been told she has to wait for lessons on the challenging works, is bored by the few that are available that she has already done, and would rather write notes to the teachers or draw. Hey, I should be glad for this because I saw some of the notes she wrote! At least it demonstrated writing, sentence structure, spelling and more, lol.

 

Monday she did take a book with her, and came home with a full chapter of it read, so I guess they won't mind that.

[TeachingMyTwo]

Kerri how are things going with Alex at school? I put Lily in public K for similar reasons (she craves being around other kids but doesn't really know how to interact effectively.) They skipped her to first after a few weeks at their choosing (they did exactly SEVEN, yes a whopping SEVEN minutes of testing because that's how long it took her to complete their lousy "test" if you can even call it that). Even so, the work is still pretty pitiful and common core irritates me to no end. She is the strongest reader in the class by lightyears and is ahead in every subject at home but she would be toast in a second or third grade classroom socially so it's not like I can ask them to move her.   :( She is getting *something* out of it so I am going to hang in there as long as we can and keep afterschooling on the side. I really needed the break after a lot of life stresses and multiple moves in a year, I am hoping to hang in there at least for one school year. She is not really challenged but enjoys it and really loves being with people. She has had a few social issues here and there with rude kids telling her to "go back to the kindergarten" or whatever because her nametag still said K and the school never thought to update it. >:[ but overall, it has expanded her horizons a bit in ways she needed. We'll reevaluate as we go.

 

Just wondering how things are things are going on your end...