AlmiraGulch Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 In case you haven't seen it: Ferguson, Missouri Community Furious After Teen Shot Dead By Police The story being told by police and the story being told by supposed witnesses are completely different. I mean, they don't even resemble each other. I'm not drawing any conclusions at all because there just isn't enough information at this point. What I do know: 1. An unarmed 18 year old male was shot and killed by police 2. The police are saying that Brown (the deceased) struggled with the officer in the back of the vehicle, physically assaulted him, went for his gun. One shot was fired inside the vehicle. The fatal shots were delivered about 35 feet from the vehicle. 3. Some witnesses are saying that Brown was on his knees when he was shot. Others are saying he was pleading for the officers not to shoot. Others are saying he'd surrendered. 4. Considerable rioting and looting last night, not just in Ferguson but in surrounding communities. People were shooting in the air and in the streets, and causing considerable damage to personal property. By the way, I was born and raised in Ferguson, Missouri, and still have a considerable number of friends who live there today, so while I did not know the deceased or his family, I do know several families who are being personally affected by the aftermath. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsMommy Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 We were just in Ferguson in June, and I never once felt unsafe when we were there. We've been all over St. Louis this summer, and there have been places that have made me uncomfortable, but Ferguson wasn't one of them. I'm almost in a state of disbelief that this is happening. My heart is breaking watching the news. I don't know that we'll ever know what really happened, but if it's true that Brown was shot eight or more times...well, there's no excuse for that. None. I'm so sad that this is what people are going to think St. Louis is like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjffkj Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I have no idea who's side is correct, likely neither is entirely true. But forensics should be able to determine if the 18 year old was on his knees when he was shot. I have a hard time believing that police shot him while he was pleading for them not to with witnesses present though. It just seems like a really stupid thing to do even if they wanted this man dead. I imagine the whole truth won't come out and even if it does the media will not handle it properly and it will all be about the victim and policeman's races. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjffkj Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Oh, I only mention race because that is all I heard last night about it and couldn't figure out why the color of anyone's skin is even a part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjffkj Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 We were just in Ferguson in June, and I never once felt unsafe when we were there. We've been all over St. Louis this summer, and there have been places that have made me uncomfortable, but Ferguson wasn't one of them. I'm almost in a state of disbelief that this is happening. My heart is breaking watching the news. I don't know that we'll ever know what really happened, but if it's true that Brown was shot eight or more times...well, there's no excuse for that. None. I'm so sad that this is what people are going to think St. Louis is like. 8 times? Something doesn't sound right with that. There is certainly more to this story if an unarmed man was shot 8 times by a police officer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wabi Sabi Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Oh, I only mention race because that is all I heard last night about it and couldn't figure out why the color of anyone's skin is even a part of it. I haven't yet caught up on everything that has happened and have only heard snippets on the news, but to think that race is not a factor when dealing with law enforcement and the judicial system in this country is naive at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsMommy Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 To be fair, eight is just one widely reported number. Some are saying more shots were fired, some less. But it's pretty clear that it was more than just two or three. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmiraGulch Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 Race is absolutely an issue here, so it's impossible not to mention. I don't know why an unarmed person would be shot that many times, either. Adrenaline? Sorry, but a police officer doesn't have the luxury of allowing adrenaline to take over. Obviously, I'm speculating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjffkj Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I should have said to jump to the conclusion that race is an issue in this particular case simply because of the people is the problem. I don't know if race had anything to do with it and at this point no one else does aside from the police officers who shot him. But from the reports I heard last night that was all the media was talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmiraGulch Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 Everything about this case bothers me. Beyond The Case, meaning, the Big News story, there is a family left without a child. There is a tight community, that was a great place to grow up, that is being divided. There is real danger for residents there who had nothing to do with any of this. There is sadness that this is how Ferguson will be defined now, when it's just not what it's all about. And what's with the looting? Give me a break. Sorry, but you lose your moral high ground when you use something like this as an excuse to rob and destroy businesses, with at least one being burned to the ground. There is no social statement about injustice to be found as you're on camera carrying away those cases of beer from the QT you just broke into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjffkj Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I haven't yet caught up on everything that has happened and have only heard snippets on the news, but to think that race is not a factor when dealing with law enforcement and the judicial system in this country is naive at best. The judicial system has nothing to do with this shooting first off. Its not naive to not jump to the conclusion that this case has anything to do with race. Its naive to assume that race is always a factor in every law enforcement issue involving a black man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjffkj Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Everything about this case bothers me. Beyond The Case, meaning, the Big News story, there is a family left without a child. There is a tight community, that was a great place to grow up, that is being divided. There is real danger for residents there who had nothing to do with any of this. There is sadness that this is how Ferguson will be defined now, when it's just not what it's all about. And what's with the looting? Give me a break. Sorry, but you lose your moral high ground when you use something like this as an excuse to rob and destroy businesses, with at least one being burned to the ground. There is no social statement about injustice to be found as you're on camera carrying away those cases of beer from the QT you just broke into. That all is very concerning and heart breaking. I can't imagine what drives people to act out in those ways but sadly it seems like a reoccurring theme in chaotic situations like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pawz4me Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 8 times? Something doesn't sound right with that. There is certainly more to this story if an unarmed man was shot 8 times by a police officer In Charlotte NC last year a police officer shot an unarmed man twelve times, hitting him ten times (and killing him). The officer has since been indicted, and the Charlotte Mecklenburg police have said the shooting was unlawful. So these things certainly do happen. Not that I'm saying the Ferguson incident is unlawful--I think there's not enough known about it yet. But as the Charlotte incident proves, shooting someone multiple times doesn't necessarily mean it was justified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmiraGulch Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 I agree that looting is inexcusable. I do think the community has a right to a moral high ground regardless if this young man was murdered. What moral high ground are they standing on if they are using someone's death as an excuse to vandalize and burglarize? They're doing all that in the name of a dead person? I call BS on that. If you feel outrage at the injustice, you march on the police station, you stage protests, you speak your piece in the media as much as you can to keep the focus on the (alleged) racially motivated actions of the police, both in this one case and across the country. You don't steal beer and burn down the gas station. You don't vandalize people's homes as you march through their yards. You don't fire off your weapons randomly in neighborhoods. Those actions have absolutely nothing to do with anyone's death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommymilkies Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Oh, I only mention race because that is all I heard last night about it and couldn't figure out why the color of anyone's skin is even a part of it. There is a long history of racial tension in that whole area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmiraGulch Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 There is a long history of racial tension in that whole area. Not really. Not more than any other place where people of different races live side by side, and the occasional incident arises. In fact, that's one of the best thing about this town, and always has been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine72 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I live near this area and I would definitely say that there is racial tension in NoCo. Not really. Not more than any other place where people of different races live side by side, and the occasional incident arises. In fact, that's one of the best thing about this town, and always has been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmiraGulch Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 I live near this area and I would definitely say that there is racial tension in NoCo. I'm not saying there is none. I realize I no longer live there, although many of my friends do. I'm just saying that categorizing it as having "a history of racial tension" makes it seem sort of...I don't know...more pervasive than it is. Bigger, I guess. Like Rodney King, L.A. or something. I do not see it that way at all, and many agree with me. Many agree with you, too, so I suppose it depends on your perspective. Truth in both. I guess I think it's beside the point. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it is the very point. It's difficult for me to see it that way based on the community I know, and based on what I'm seeing in my own Facebook feed from friends (not just acquaintances) that I've had since childhood, both black and white, and their first hand accounts of having grown up there, like I did, and still living there, and raising their own children there. It's difficult for me to reconcile all of that with what what they've been seeing over the last couple of days, and even more so with what the media is reporting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leav97 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 What moral high ground are they standing on if they are using someone's death as an excuse to vandalize and burglarize? They're doing all that in the name of a dead person? I call BS on that. If you feel outrage at the injustice, you march on the police station, you stage protests, you speak your piece in the media as much as you can to keep the focus on the (alleged) racially motivated actions of the police, both in this one case and across the country. You don't steal beer and burn down the gas station. You don't vandalize people's homes as you march through their yards. You don't fire off your weapons randomly in neighborhoods. Those actions have absolutely nothing to do with anyone's death. I haven't read anything about this incident and don't know anything about the neighborhood. Just replying to the rioting. There is a point when people do not see other options. When their lives are surrounded by closed doors. When your voice is unheard. When frustration mounts. When the no one around you seems to escape from your neighborhood. When life seems like an endless struggle. Eventually violence will erupt. And when mindless violence starts it usually isn't directed. And even rarely is it directed correctly. Does it make it right, no. But, is some places it is almost inevitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmiraGulch Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 I haven't read anything about this incident and don't know anything about the neighborhood. Just replying to the rioting. There is a point when people do not see other options. When their lives are surrounded by closed doors. When your voice is unheard. When frustration mounts. When the no one around you seems to escape from your neighborhood. When life seems like an endless struggle. Eventually violence will erupt. And when mindless violence starts it usually isn't directed. And even rarely is it directed correctly. Does it make it right, no. But, is some places it is almost inevitable. I agree that this is the case in, say, war torn Bosnia, or Somalia, for example. In this case, I just absolutely do not agree. At all. There is no case where true social outrage manifests itself in looting the local rim shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leav97 Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I agree that this is the case in, say, war torn Bosnia, or Somalia, for example. In this case, I just absolutely do not agree. At all. There is no case where true social outrage manifests itself in looting the local rim shop. You're more likely to see these kind of riots outside of war zones. War zones already have outlets of a sort. You pick up a weapon and join the fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Find me a place in the United States without any history of racial tensions that wouldn't flare up after a teenager of one race was shot to death by police of another race. We do not live, like it or not, in a colorblind or post-racial society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmiraGulch Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 Find me a place in the United States without any history of racial tensions that wouldn't flare up after a teenager of one race was shot to death by police of another race. We do not live, like it or not, in a colorblind or post-racial society. No, we certainly do not. And to think there was no race involved in this is ridiculous. I'm not saying the officer woke up in the morning and said "I think I'll go shoot me a black person today." I am saying, though, that because of where he was, and because he (the officer) is white, and the deceased is black, it is now a race-based incident. That's just the way it is. I'm just anxiously awaiting the report from the medical examiner, and the official police statement, and actual witness statements, as opposed to the news bites on the 6:00 news. I'm having a very hard time getting past the fact that the guy was not armed, and was 35 feet from the police car when the fatal shots were fired. Even if he did assault the police officer in the car and was shot the first time, he apparently got away, at which point he was no longer assaulting anyone. It seems to me the officer had options beyond shooting an unarmed person who was moving in the opposite direction several times. If he was fleeing, a taser fires quite a distance. Still, I cannot just chalk up all of the violence and looting of businesses and threats against residents to an inevitable aftermath. I can't. We're not talking about mindless animals, here. These are human beings who are making the conscious decision to do these things. Legitimate moral outrage does not give you an excuse to destroy businesses and threaten your neighbors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjffkj Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 In Charlotte NC last year a police officer shot an unarmed man twelve times, hitting him ten times (and killing him). The officer has since been indicted, and the Charlotte Mecklenburg police have said the shooting was unlawful. So these things certainly do happen. Not that I'm saying the Ferguson incident is unlawful--I think there's not enough known about it yet. But as the Charlotte incident proves, shooting someone multiple times doesn't necessarily mean it was justified. Oh I meant more to the story in the sense leaning towards unlawful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 Still, I cannot just chalk up all of the violence and looting of businesses and threats against residents to an inevitable aftermath. I can't. We're not talking about mindless animals, here. These are human beings who are making the conscious decision to do these things. Legitimate moral outrage does not give you an excuse to destroy businesses and threaten your neighbors. I agree. My post was mainly directed at those who were saying race either didn't or shouldn't realistically matter. Ideally it wouldn't but then again ideally there wouldn't be a significant racial disparity in our criminal justice system. Where we are, here and now, it absolutely does matter. These things don't happen in a vacuum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmiraGulch Posted August 11, 2014 Author Share Posted August 11, 2014 The greater community is not synonymous with the looters. Right, but the looters claim to represent the community, and many come from that community. There are some people that are condemning their actions, but many are not. Many have actually stated, as quoted in the media (no, I don't have a link...I've been reading all day) that it is being done "for Michael Brown." That, in my opinion, is deplorable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsMommy Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I can't stand looting, and I don't understand it. But I'm grateful that I don't. Last night on the news, they kept reporting, from many different sources, that all they were hearing from the young men in that community is that they don't think their lives have any value. When the people who are supposed to protect you and your community make you feel that way, I just don't know how you respond. I know looting isn't the answer, and isn't right, but like I said, I'm immensely grateful that I don't know what that feels like, and how I would respond if I did feel that way. This whole thing has just ruined the last 48 hours for me. It's surreal, and has broken my heart. eta: We went to Ferguson this summer, looking for the Stl250 cake that is there...it looks like a nice place, and this has been one of my favorite of the 250 birthday cakes. And we stopped for ice cream at this place. Again, we never felt unsafe there. It was actually a really cool place that the children have been asking to return to, but now I'm kind of afraid to, at least for the time being. This wasn't where the rioting was last night, but the protests today went right by there. It just makes me so sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elfgivas Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 on the one hand, there is the moral high ground. on the other hand, we have had generations on the high ground, and people are still being shot because they aren't white. my hunch is that some violence is unrestrained anger, and other violence is opportunistic. but really, the inequal application of the law has got to stop. and i have a great need not to blame the victims. fwiw, ann Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsMommy Posted August 11, 2014 Share Posted August 11, 2014 I don't know if anyone has had the chance to see any of the NAACP public forum that is going on right now, but it has been very profound. I hope this sentiment can be what carries forward in Ferguson, and in the St. Louis area in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 What moral high ground are they standing on if they are using someone's death as an excuse to vandalize and burglarize? They're doing all that in the name of a dead person? I call BS on that. If you feel outrage at the injustice, you march on the police station, you stage protests, you speak your piece in the media as much as you can to keep the focus on the (alleged) racially motivated actions of the police, both in this one case and across the country. You don't steal beer and burn down the gas station. You don't vandalize people's homes as you march through their yards. You don't fire off your weapons randomly in neighborhoods. Those actions have absolutely nothing to do with anyone's death. A community has thousands of people in it. Only a small fraction engaging in criminal actions like looting. To paste the whole community with the actions of a few is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmiraGulch Posted August 12, 2014 Author Share Posted August 12, 2014 A community has thousands of people in it. Only a small fraction engaging in criminal actions like looting. To paste the whole community with the actions of a few is wrong. Well, since that's not what I said, and even clarified in a later post, then it looks like we actually agree on that. ETA: Did you miss the part where I said this is my community? My hometown...born and raised, with many, many friends still living there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annie Laurie Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 Race is absolutely an issue here, so it's impossible not to mention. Yes. Like it or not, black males are treated differently by police than white males. That is a fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto. Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Don't know if you saw, Reddit has a live feed here. Interactive map here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seasider Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 The news I've read has said that many of the looters were not from Ferguson, but came over from the St Louis area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNC Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 If the protests were peaceful, I would want to join. I am sorry but if I hear of one more unarmed black teenage boy shot by a vigilante, police officer or fellow shopper who doesn't like his music I going to vomit, then start joining protests. Young, unarmed black men aren't animals, even if behave in a manner you PERCEIVE as threatening, you can't just kill them. It is an outrage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cera Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I find these situations interesting because the default is for the public to assume he was shot because of race. Nobody is willing to consider that his skin color might not be the issue, it may just be that he was being a punk. Still not necessarily justifiable (being a punk isn't a reason to be shot) but it is possible that not everyone who has a negative interaction with a black person has that interaction because of their race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmiraGulch Posted August 14, 2014 Author Share Posted August 14, 2014 Bull. How do you know the numbers of "some" versus "many". Are you there, or watching some television news that others aren't seeing?? Which media are going around talking to a majority of the community members. Are there widespread polls being done with a majority of respondants that reside there?I see your comments as similar to those outraged that not enough Muslims here were outraged after 9/11. Seriously? Calm the hell down. I don't have numbers any more than you do. I'm watching the news and reading the blogs, even more than you, most likely, because it's my own damn town, my own community, where I was born and raised, and so I therefore have a vested interest in the entire story. I'm also talking to people that I actually know, who live there, in the very place where it's happening, and NOT relying solely on just what you are seeing in the news. I never said anything about a "majority" of anything. I'm talking about the people doing the looting and causing civil unrest, and not the majority of the community who are trying to live their lives. That's pretty clear, here. Don't try to find fault and point fingers and assign ugliness to my statements where there is none. And I have no idea how anything I'm saying has any parallel to the "not enough outraged Muslims" comments. Give me a damn break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FO4UR Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 It happened in one of the most racist areas of the country. (My judgement there, no stats to back that up.) I don't think the facts are going to matter in this case. If the cop is found wrong, there is proof of his racially charged hate & misconduct and justification for more hate from the other direction. If he is not found wrong, it will be believed to be a cover-up of the good-ole-boys...and justification for more hate... I don't pretend to know what exactly happened. I do know that, right or wrong, it only takes a tiny spark to start riot in a place that is already boiling under the surface. The loss of a young life is a huge spark...no matter the details surrounding. No ruling is going to change what boils under the surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Well, since that's not what I said, and even clarified in a later post, then it looks like we actually agree on that. ETA: Did you miss the part where I said this is my community? My hometown...born and raised, with many, many friends still living there? Maybe so, but you have repeatedly generalized and referred to the looters as though they were the entirety of the community in Ferguson, which they obviously aren't. The community can still have the moral high ground in being outraged. That of course does not mean the individuals using the event as an excuse for criminal acts retain that moral high ground. Not every statement in a discussion is a personal affront. None of mine were intended as such. If you just want to rant and get sympathy, put JAWM in your subject line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsMommy Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 The people that are supposed to protect the community are the elders. They have a moral code and values that they pass down to society, forming a law-abiding culture and civilization. They, not the police, have the responsibility of showing the children and young adults that their lives have value. In this community, there seems to be no elder of the caliber of someone such as Bayard Rustin...unless of course the media is censoring....a leader of that caliber would have a calming influence on the community and be effective in working with government to help the community, especially now that heroin is devastating so many communities. It is a shame that it had to get to this. St. Louis had not had riots in the past. I don't care how much the "elders" tell the youth that their lives have value, if you see your unarmed friend gunned down by police, that is going to have an effect on you. And as far as the media, given that they're being removed from the area, and arrested in some cases, I think they're just trying to get the basic facts of the issue out. They can only delve so far when the police keep showing them the door. Ferguson looks like a war zone. There is no excuse for that. Most of the people they took in last night (including a St. Louis Alderman who was picked up for unlawful assembly because he didn't get OUT of his car) were demonstrating peaceably, which I'm pretty sure the Constitution grants them the right to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmiraGulch Posted August 14, 2014 Author Share Posted August 14, 2014 Maybe so, but you have repeatedly generalized and referred to the let's add though they were the entirety of the community in Ferguson, which they obviously aren't. The community can still have the moral high ground in being outraged. That of course does not mean the individuals using the event as an excuse for criminal acts retain that moral high ground. Not every statement in a discussion is a personal affront. None of mine were intended as such. If you just want to rant and get sympathy, put JAWM in your subject line. No, I have not. I have generalized about the people who CLAIM TO REPRESENT the community, who are in the streets causing civil unrest. Those are the people who cannot claim the moral high ground, when they then turn around and behave the way they are behaving. I was not and am still not looking for anyone to just agree with me. I do wish people would read thoroughly before responding and reacting to things I did not say, nor even imply. In fact, I basically said the opposite; that this is not representative of the community, despite the claims of the looters/rioters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmiraGulch Posted August 14, 2014 Author Share Posted August 14, 2014 I don't care how much the "elders" tell the youth that their lives have value, if you see your unarmed friend gunned down by police, that is going to have an effect on you. And as far as the media, given that they're being removed from the area, and arrested in some cases, I think they're just trying to get the basic facts of the issue out. They can only delve so far when the police keep showing them the door. Ferguson looks like a war zone. There is no excuse for that. Most of the people they took in last night (including a St. Louis Alderman who was picked up for unlawful assembly because he didn't get OUT of his car) were demonstrating peaceably, which I'm pretty sure the Constitution grants them the right to do. I completely agree with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Slightly off the topic... I was impressed with the twitter hashtag movement. Anyone else? It was a peaceful, quickly organized and loud statement about how our media portrays people (in this case black people) who are accused of crimes. I'm an itty bit frustrated that it was focused on black people because I think this is a problem in general, but of course understand why their was a focus. Personally, I think it should be illegal for media to issue ANY names or photos unless and until someone is actually convicted. Saying the word "suspected" or "alleged" afterwards does not change that the person is presumed guilty by most who read or see it. And the media most certainly never seems to find a flattering picture of any of them. I don't think that is just a black problem, but I hope this starts a movement to change this for everyone. As for looting and destroying property - it does undermine their cause. Most find it difficult to sympathize with thugs. I agree with a pp, at this point it doesn't matter whether the cops were right or wrong, they've judged and that's what they are going to believe. And because of this looting, they will have alienated themselves from a segment of their community that might have otherwise rallied behind them if convinced this was unjust. It's rather hard to convince someone to demonstrate in the streets with you after destroying their home or business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsMommy Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 I am not talking about 'telling'. I am talking about doing. There are many things the elders can do to develop a thriving community. Other communities have done so. I hope the people here will look past the out of towners who bring violent tactics, and work out a solution quickly, as well as one for the long term. School was supposed to start today. People have been doing. The news reports have told a story of parents who were very involved in their child's life, encouraging him to strive for better, and he was still gunned down. People are trying to do by peacefully protesting, and model a proper use of their Constitutional rights, and they're being arrested. All the doing in the world isn't going to help until they get this police military off the street. The police and city leaders need to do their part to help the community, too, and so far, they're failing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 NPR has an interesting piece this morning: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/08/14/340315497/tear-gas-and-arrests-ferguson-police-and-protesters-face-off Journalists were arrested (Washington Post and Huffington Post teams), tear gassed and their equipment dismantled (Al Jazeera team), and generally treated like they were involved in active rioting....which they were not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlmiraGulch Posted August 14, 2014 Author Share Posted August 14, 2014 NPR has an interesting piece this morning: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/08/14/340315497/tear-gas-and-arrests-ferguson-police-and-protesters-face-off Journalists were arrested (Washington Post and Huffington Post teams), tear gassed and their equipment dismantled (Al Jazeera team), and generally treated like they were involved in active rioting....which they were not. This boggled my mind. They were sitting in a McDonalds, and the police apparently got all in a tizzy because they took pictures, and then kicked them out of the McDonalds. I haven't read the exact article you posted, so if it says something different, that's why. But if it happened like I heard, it's just ridiculous. I wonder if it's because it's a small-ish town police force that has obviously not been on the national stage and they're just completely out of their depth here. I mean, it's not Mayberry, for sure. But this? First the shooting, and then the unrest and violence, and the press attention....I don't know of a time where they've been involved in anything like this previously. I could be wrong, but certainly not anything that has blown up like this has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsMommy Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 This boggled my mind. They were sitting in a McDonalds, and the police apparently got all in a tizzy because they took pictures, and then kicked them out of the McDonalds. I haven't read the exact article you posted, so if it says something different, that's why. But if it happened like I heard, it's just ridiculous. I wonder if it's because it's a small-ish town police force that has obviously not been on the national stage and they're just completely out of their depth here. I mean, it's not Mayberry, for sure. But this? First the shooting, and then the unrest and violence, and the press attention....I don't know of a time where they've been involved in anything like this previously. I could be wrong, but certainly not anything that has blown up like this has. Every report I've read has said that it happened exactly as you stated. It's ridiculous. I do think that the Ferguson police department is totally out of their element, but I think the real problem is the county police, who came riding in to save the day. They're the ones acting as military on the streets. But we've got a few press conferences coming up here that are pointing to the possibility of the National Guard being brought in, so maybe we'll get actual military on the streets. Perhaps they can protect the people of Ferguson and the reporters from the police force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prairiewindmomma Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Here's the second perspective in the Guardian. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/14/ferguson-police-teargas-rubber-bullets-michael-brown The Al-Jazeera team was shot with rubber bullets, and the tear gas was aimed *at* them when they were filming the protestors. Likewise, the "Posts" teams were arrested while they were filming. A highly militarized police force taking out journalists because they don't want their actions recorded? *THAT* is disturbing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Word Nerd Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Here's one journalist's account of what happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrsMommy Posted August 14, 2014 Share Posted August 14, 2014 Here's the second perspective in the Guardian. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/14/ferguson-police-teargas-rubber-bullets-michael-brown The Al-Jazeera team was shot with rubber bullets, and the tear gas was aimed *at* them when they were filming the protestors. Likewise, the "Posts" teams were arrested while they were filming. A highly militarized police force taking out journalists because they don't want their actions recorded? *THAT* is disturbing. It is very disturbing, and it quite frankly scares me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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